7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Apophis2412]

Lightice_av wrote...

In reality I think they didn't include it because the game would have sold less. That is not discrimination, but just a business descision.

The game would not have sold less. Dragon Age is a direct, clear proof that M/M content does not in fact lower a good game's sales. Most people would barely have noticed or cared, while a significant minority consumer base might have taken interest in the game. With luck there might have been a small scandal, though Dragon Age didn't get one, that would have brought extra publicity to the game, which always leads to even greater sales.
Mass Effect has a major female playerbase, who in turn contain a fairly major part who like to play as male Shepard, and would like to be cartered to something in their interests, as well. The times when teenaged boys were the only ones to buy video games are long past.

Your argument does not hold water in face of the facts available. The most likely explanation for the omission is still time-constraints, and these threads seek to make sure that the option won't be pushed so far back in the schedule again that it has to be left out in the end.

First to call being left out discrimination is going to far.

But I can see where you are coming from. Seeing the amount of topics about this subject on these forums BW has clearly misjudged the amount of people who want a same sex romance and how important romances in general are to people.

And you are right, Jade Empire or Dragon Age did not sell less, because they included a same-sex-romance.

[Apophis2412]

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

No. Bioware can do whatever they want with their games. We may offer suggestions about how they should make their game, but we don't have any final say in these matters.

Naturally, but they must agree that they've gone their way to carter some incredibly exotic options but ignored this particular one. I still have hard time believing that more people would be into turians than into their own gender.

I will start with a disclaimer that I do not hate gay people, I am cool with their existance, I just find the idea of two dudes together one of the grossest things I have ever thought of.

I don't find it that hard to believe either, strange, but not that hard to believe.  When My older brother was telling me about Jeffrey Dahmer, I heard about how he had sex with dead bodies, kept human body parts as trohies, and ate people without being too phased, but when he told me it was with guys, I got a little nauseous.  I myself think that this is unhealthy, but its true.  I can see myself being able to have sex with a female krogan before another dude.   

There is nothing  wrong with not liking seeing to gay man having sex. As long as you do not impose your own rules on gay people and agree that gay men may have as much sex as they want as long as you don't have to see it.

[didymos1120]

Jewsapalewsa wrote...
I don't find it that hard to believe either, strange, but not that hard to believe.  When My older brother was telling me about Jeffrey Dahmer, I heard about how he had sex with dead bodies, kept human body parts as trohies, and ate people without being too phased, but when he told me it was with guys, I got a little nauseous.  I myself think that this is unhealthy, but its true.  I can see myself being able to have sex with a female krogan before another dude.   

I find this quite strange.  I mean, as a straight guy, when in my teens, I admit I at times affected attitudes like this for the standard crappy social reasons, but I can't really comprehend them as anything but posturing.   I will say, I appreciate the honesty of it, especially the bolded bit there, but I just still have trouble believing people actually feel this way.  I know they do, but still...

[Jewsapalewsa]

Sylwia94 wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

Sylwia94 wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

Sylwia94 wrote...

 I fully agree with OP and support this thread 100%. If anyone want know full view about this matter just read first post in my thread. . I still think it's disgusting sexism or hipocrisy if they added lesbians but don't added gays. We want have choice in sexual orientation of Male Shepard in the same way as Female Shepard has! 
 
 And if anyone wants to repeat this nonsense like that "they includes f/f but no m/m because F/Fs are more accepted by society" just please don't say anything and stop compromising yourself. We all except some teen boys knows it's bull**** and most of girls want see m/m same as boys f/f, so it's just depend by gender of person who speak and in matters more serious(like adoption or marriage) than seeing two guys/girls making out, homosexual ppls always have same rights irrespective of their gender, so it's bull**** in all matters.

I hope after this thread BW finally will see what they customers want and give us what we want in ME2 and in future also in ME3! 

 Perhaps f/f was included because most players are heterosexual males?

Yes, and thats why I feel discriminated as heterosexual girl... Nowaday much of us play games too.

Discrimination would imply they didn't include m/m because they are homophobic.

In reality I think they didn't include it because the game would have sold less. That is not discrimination, but just a business descision.

Nonsense, it's up to player what he/she does and no one will don't buy that good game just because you can be gay. In rl you can be gay too and did you kill yourself because you can? Just like rl you should have a choice. An sorry but for me if they did f/f option to satisfy male players but don't did m/m option to satisfy female players fot me it's sexism, hipocrysy or whatever you want call it. If you wanna repaet nonsenses just look on DAO, this game are selling very, very good and does matter you can be gay there.

This is not nonsense.  Just because You don't agree with it doesn't change it from a business decision to discrimination.  It is still a business decision.  You could aregue that it is a bad one, but you can't say it is not a business decision.

Modifié par Jewsapalewsa, 26 février 2010 - 01:20 .

[Jewsapalewsa]

Apophis2412 wrote...

Sylwia94 wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

Sylwia94 wrote...

 I fully agree with OP and support this thread 100%. If anyone want know full view about this matter just read first post in my thread. . I still think it's disgusting sexism or hipocrisy if they added lesbians but don't added gays. We want have choice in sexual orientation of Male Shepard in the same way as Female Shepard has! 
 
 And if anyone wants to repeat this nonsense like that "they includes f/f but no m/m because F/Fs are more accepted by society" just please don't say anything and stop compromising yourself. We all except some teen boys knows it's bull**** and most of girls want see m/m same as boys f/f, so it's just depend by gender of person who speak and in matters more serious(like adoption or marriage) than seeing two guys/girls making out, homosexual ppls always have same rights irrespective of their gender, so it's bull**** in all matters.

I hope after this thread BW finally will see what they customers want and give us what we want in ME2 and in future also in ME3! 

 Perhaps f/f was included because most players are heterosexual males?

Yes, and thats why I feel discriminated as heterosexual girl... Nowaday much of us play games too.

Discrimination would imply they didn't include m/m because they are homophobic.

In reality I think they didn't include it because the game would have sold less. That is not discrimination, but just a business descision.

Thank you.  It is silly when people throw around these exagerated terms like Bioware is trying to tell people that "God hates ****s" or some other such nonsense. 

[RevenantWolf]

Apophis2412 wrote...

Some general points:

My personal opinion on 'homosexuality':  I'm fairly neutral about the whole subject. I agree that they should be treated the same as any other person and that currently they are oppressed.

However I'm not in favor of 'positive discrimination' (giving them more priviliges and/ or rights because they were oppressed/ discriminated against.)


Must BW include gay romance in ME3? Is it our right? 

No. Bioware can do whatever they want with their games. We may offer suggestions about how they should make their game, but we don't have any final say in these matters.


Should gay romance be included so that BW can show how 'progressive'or modern they are?

No. BW's job is to make money not start a discussion about the issues plaging modern society.


Should it be included because the fans demand it?

If more than enough fans demand it than it should be included. If it's just a small minority than, no.


Does gay romance fit with ME's storyline?

Yes. The game is set more than 150 years into our future. One would think that we had solved these issues by then.

Perhaps in the future, they found the genetic cause of homosexuality and "cured it"

Modifié par RevenantWolf, 26 février 2010 - 01:24 .

[Wittand25]

RevenantWolf wrote...

Perhaps in the future, they found the genetic cause of homosexuality and "cured it"

Nope,  Hendel Mitra in the ascention novel proves otherwise.

[Apophis2412]

RevenantWolf wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

Some general points:

My personal opinion on 'homosexuality':  I'm fairly neutral about the whole subject. I agree that they should be treated the same as any other person and that currently they are oppressed.

However I'm not in favor of 'positive discrimination' (giving them more priviliges and/ or rights because they were oppressed/ discriminated against.)


Must BW include gay romance in ME3? Is it our right? 

No. Bioware can do whatever they want with their games. We may offer suggestions about how they should make their game, but we don't have any final say in these matters.


Should gay romance be included so that BW can show how 'progressive'or modern they are?

No. BW's job is to make money not start a discussion about the issues plaging modern society.


Should it be included because the fans demand it?

If more than enough fans demand it than it should be included. If it's just a small minority than, no.


Does gay romance fit with ME's storyline?

Yes. The game is set more than 150 years into our future. One would think that we had solved these issues by then.

Perhaps in the future, they found the genetic cause of homosexuality and "cured it"

I was actually hoping that the discrimination against homosexuals would be a thing of the past by 2185.

[Jewsapalewsa]

RevenantWolf wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

Some general points:

My personal opinion on 'homosexuality':  I'm fairly neutral about the whole subject. I agree that they should be treated the same as any other person and that currently they are oppressed.

However I'm not in favor of 'positive discrimination' (giving them more priviliges and/ or rights because they were oppressed/ discriminated against.)


Must BW include gay romance in ME3? Is it our right? 

No. Bioware can do whatever they want with their games. We may offer suggestions about how they should make their game, but we don't have any final say in these matters.


Should gay romance be included so that BW can show how 'progressive'or modern they are?

No. BW's job is to make money not start a discussion about the issues plaging modern society.


Should it be included because the fans demand it?

If more than enough fans demand it than it should be included. If it's just a small minority than, no.


Does gay romance fit with ME's storyline?

Yes. The game is set more than 150 years into our future. One would think that we had solved these issues by then.

Perhaps in the future, they found the genetic cause of homosexuality and "cured it"

I laughed so hard.  You are just asking for the hate to come pouring at you.  I can see your point.  It is a fairly accepted theory that homosexuality is an inborn genetic trait, and it could be "cured with the proper gene therapy, but the majority of the world can't handle such a suggestion. 

[cutthecameras]

RevenantWolf wrote...


Perhaps in the future, they found the genetic cause of homosexuality and "cured it"

It's doubtful humanity got to the galactic stage without gay people to offset over-population problems...Of course, this is a huge ethics issue, as I know most gays would not want a cure even if it were available. You'd think something like this would be on the codex*.

*Sarcasm. Obviously a "there are no gay people in ME" entry would come off as totally homophobic. There's simply no way to say that that doesn't seem like a convinient plot device: I'm lookin' at George Lucas when I say that.

[Apophis2412]

Jewsapalewsa wrote...


I laughed so hard.  You are just asking for the hate to come pouring at you.  I can see your point.  It is a fairly accepted theory that homosexuality is an inborn genetic trait, and it could be "cured with the proper gene therapy, but the majority of the world can't handle such a suggestion. 

And even if it were a genetic disorder, so what? Why cure a disease that doesn't make people ill?

Modifié par Apophis2412, 26 février 2010 - 01:31 .

[Wittand25]

To everyone :

Please stop the discussion of real life homosexuality and keep to discussing homosexuality in context of the game. Derrailing over such issues has got some incarnations of this thread closed and I dont want to this to happen again.

[Naughty Bear]

I remember reading somewhere that males are slowly dying out and soon females will be left.
Maybe female Human's are actually Asari!!

[Jewsapalewsa]

Apophis2412 wrote...


And even if it were a genetic disorder, so what? Why cure a disease when it has no negative consuqeunces?

I don't understand what your asking of me.  I have already stated that gays are cool with me, as long as I don't hafta watch. I was simply laughing at the thought of people's head exploding at the very notion of this being attempted.  I would be totally okay if homosexuality was cured, but I'm not one of the homos that would be "cured" of something that is part of them, so my opinion doesn't much matter.  It would simplify an awful lot though.  I just find it highly amusing when folks work themselves into a tizzy over a comment that wastn't even offensive.

[cutthecameras]

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

This is not nonsense.  Just because You don't agree with it doesn't change it from a business decision to discrimination.  It is still a business decision.  You could aregue that it is a bad one, but you can't say it is not a business decision.

Point to an instance where gay content hurt sales. It's doubtful you can link any drop in sales directly to gay-related content. This thread wasn't opened to speculate on the how or the why, it was opened to discuss the: what now?

Modifié par cutthecameras, 26 février 2010 - 01:37 .

[Jewsapalewsa]

cutthecameras wrote...

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

This is not nonsense.  Just because You don't agree with it doesn't change it from a business decision to discrimination.  It is still a business decision.  You could aregue that it is a bad one, but you can't say it is not a business decision.

Point to an instance where gay content hurt sales. It's doubtful you can link any drop in sales directly to gay-related context.

Stand on your head and whistle dixie. 

If we're going to start making demands of ach other, at least by me a drink first. (By the look of your avatar and my signature, it might actually go well.) 

But seriously, I never said it was a good business decision.  In fact, I admit it could (theoretically) be the worst business decision in the history of business decisions, but it is still a business decision.  That is my point.

Call me.

[Apophis2412]

How many ME characters are homosexual at this moment?

[catabuca]

I support this topic.



My preference, for the way it is implemented into ME3, is that it should be implemented in exactly the same way as hetero relationship options. No DLC, no 'crush' import screen, and no coloured text (although I am in agreement that the current way conversations are handled in the game, for hetero relationships in this case, are flawed, and players are seemingly 'pushed' into a relationship whether they want one or not - this would have to be addressed across the board, and not just for gay content).

[cutthecameras]

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

This is not nonsense.  Just because You don't agree with it doesn't change it from a business decision to discrimination.  It is still a business decision.  You could aregue that it is a bad one, but you can't say it is not a business decision.

Point to an instance where gay content hurt sales. It's doubtful you can link any drop in sales directly to gay-related context.

Stand on your head and whistle dixie. 

If we're going to start making demands of ach other, at least by me a drink first. (By the look of your avatar and my signature, it might actually go well.) 

But seriously, I never said it was a good business decision.  In fact, I admit it could (theoretically) be the worst business decision in the history of business decisions, but it is still a business decision.  That is my point.

Call me.

As I later edited into that post you quoted:
This thread was not opened to speculate on the how or the why this
occured. None of us are Bioware and Bioware have been awfully vague on
why same-sex romance was not included in ME2. No matter what anyone says, I'm not ready to hate on one of my favorite developer's over a screw up. It could have been any number of things none of which are up for debate.

This thread is open to discussion on what to do about it now or less specifically, talk about s/s romance in general.

[Naughty Bear]

Apophis2412 wrote...

How many ME characters are homosexual at this moment?

1. My fem shep.

Oh and just for lolz:

:ph34r:EDIT: [Spam ASCII art removed.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 février 2010 - 01:56 .

[Octorox]

 wow this thread grows fast! Anyway, I definitely, from the beginning, support same sex romances in ME3, even it means that as a straight Shepard those romances are barred from me or if gay characters hit on my Shepard. If they made Tali bi in ME2 via DLC I'd deal with it. It is just a game. I agree that the fun factor outweighs canon or any theories I have about the nature of the ME world or the nature of specific characters within. I guess I just see the relationships aspect as more of a story thing than a gameplay thing (trust me, I love great, fun gameplay, and I think ME has it, as well as Mario ) but opening up these previously heterosexual characters to players of the same sex wouldn't really kill the story for anyone anyway, I got a bit carried away and played devil's advocate for a bit. I lend my support and hope Bioware does something for the gay community in the future.

[cutthecameras]

Octorox wrote...

 wow this thread grows fast! Anyway, I definitely, from the beginning, support same sex romances in ME3, even it means that as a straight Shepard those romances are barred from me or if gay characters hit on my Shepard. If they made Tali bi in ME2 via DLC I'd deal with it. It is just a game. I agree that the fun factor outweighs canon or any theories I have about the nature of the ME world or the nature of specific characters within. I guess I just see the relationships aspect as more of a story thing than a gameplay thing (trust me, I love great, fun gameplay, and I think ME has it, as well as Mario ) but opening up these previously heterosexual characters to players of the same sex wouldn't really kill the story for anyone anyway, I got a bit carried away and played devil's advocate for a bit. I lend my support and hope Bioware does something for the gay community in the future.

It's good to have your support, Octorox. : )

Modifié par cutthecameras, 26 février 2010 - 01:51 .

[Jewsapalewsa]

cutthecameras wrote...

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

This is not nonsense.  Just because You don't agree with it doesn't change it from a business decision to discrimination.  It is still a business decision.  You could aregue that it is a bad one, but you can't say it is not a business decision.

Point to an instance where gay content hurt sales. It's doubtful you can link any drop in sales directly to gay-related context.

Stand on your head and whistle dixie. 

If we're going to start making demands of ach other, at least by me a drink first. (By the look of your avatar and my signature, it might actually go well.) 

But seriously, I never said it was a good business decision.  In fact, I admit it could (theoretically) be the worst business decision in the history of business decisions, but it is still a business decision.  That is my point.

Call me.

As I later edited into that post you quoted:
This thread was not opened to speculate on the how or the why this
occured. None of us are Bioware and Bioware have been awfully vague on
why same-sex romance was not included in ME2. No matter what anyone says, I'm not ready to hate on one of my favorite developer's over a screw up. It could have been any number of things none of which are up for debate.

This thread is open to discussion on what to do about it now or less specifically, talk about s/s romance in general.

Wait are you chastizing me, or agreeing with me.   Don't toy with me woman!!! (I assume, but I could be wrong.)

[Sylwia94]

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

Sylwia94 wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

Sylwia94 wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

Sylwia94 wrote...

 I fully agree with OP and support this thread 100%. If anyone want know full view about this matter just read first post in my thread. . I still think it's disgusting sexism or hipocrisy if they added lesbians but don't added gays. We want have choice in sexual orientation of Male Shepard in the same way as Female Shepard has! 
 
 And if anyone wants to repeat this nonsense like that "they includes f/f but no m/m because F/Fs are more accepted by society" just please don't say anything and stop compromising yourself. We all except some teen boys knows it's bull**** and most of girls want see m/m same as boys f/f, so it's just depend by gender of person who speak and in matters more serious(like adoption or marriage) than seeing two guys/girls making out, homosexual ppls always have same rights irrespective of their gender, so it's bull**** in all matters.

I hope after this thread BW finally will see what they customers want and give us what we want in ME2 and in future also in ME3! 

 Perhaps f/f was included because most players are heterosexual males?

Yes, and thats why I feel discriminated as heterosexual girl... Nowaday much of us play games too.

Discrimination would imply they didn't include m/m because they are homophobic.

In reality I think they didn't include it because the game would have sold less. That is not discrimination, but just a business descision.

Nonsense, it's up to player what he/she does and no one will don't buy that good game just because you can be gay. In rl you can be gay too and did you kill yourself because you can? Just like rl you should have a choice. An sorry but for me if they did f/f option to satisfy male players but don't did m/m option to satisfy female players fot me it's sexism, hipocrysy or whatever you want call it. If you wanna repaet nonsenses just look on DAO, this game are selling very, very good and does matter you can be gay there.

This is not nonsense.  Just because You don't agree with it doesn't change it from a business decision to discrimination.  It is still a business decision.  You could aregue that it is a bad one, but you can't say it is not a business decision.

But you said it's a bussiness decision, not BioWare. After succes of DAO they surely noticed that more options will bring more customers, not inversely.

[RobbertDewulf]

What do I care? It's just a game, c'mon get a life (or a partner of the same sex).