7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Kryyptehk wrote...

The thing about that is that I could easily see Jack or Tali as being LIs for FemShep. Tali kind of seems like she has a crush on Shepard and Jack mentions how she slept with a chick before.

And come on, I could totally see a Shepard/Jacob. The broHug! lol.

Why you really want to see Shepard's rape face in the normal game? 



0:06

[Sevrun]

great, two chicks tryin to get a marine to puke... where's a camcorder when ya need one?



that's gotta be worth money to someone lmao

[The_KFD_Case]

Sevrun wrote...

ok, the Shep/Jacob thing... nah. that actually makes my stomach roll. Mordin being potentially curios in that regard... while scary in it's own right not so much. Who'd wanna try beddin a hamster on coffee?

Tali kinda stands in the middle by her very mysterious and girlish crush on Shep... and yeah, I'll admit I actually kinda expected Jack to swing that way. I haven't really explored the romance options much... galaxy to save and all that (wife constantly leaning over my shoulder unless I play at 1 am )

I pretty much agree with everything you typed above. Jack is the one female party member (asides from a female Shepard) in ME2 that I can easily envision being bi-sexual. Possibly Miranda though no where near as much. As for Tali, I'm just not convinced.

On the male side of things, I'd expect Thane to be more likely to be bi-sexual. Perhaps it is because he gives me a similar vibe to that of Zevran from DA:O. Anyone feel like cuddling with Grunt?

[The_KFD_Case]

Ryzaki wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

The thing about that is that I could easily see Jack or Tali as being LIs for FemShep. Tali kind of seems like she has a crush on Shepard and Jack mentions how she slept with a chick before.

And come on, I could totally see a Shepard/Jacob. The broHug! lol.

Why you really want to see Shepard's rape face in the normal game? 



0:06

I'll give Jacob this: He seems like a stand up guy and he is F-I-T!

[SorenTrigg]

KFD, do you play a female Shepard? And if so, have you talked to Tali a lot?

She is one of the characters that really seems interested in female Shepard, *especially* with the suit linking dialogue and getting all flustered if Shepard tells her she finds that sweet.

Modifié par SorenTrigg, 27 avril 2010 - 06:22 .

[Ryzaki]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

The thing about that is that I could easily see Jack or Tali as being LIs for FemShep. Tali kind of seems like she has a crush on Shepard and Jack mentions how she slept with a chick before.

And come on, I could totally see a Shepard/Jacob. The broHug! lol.

Why you really want to see Shepard's rape face in the normal game? 



0:06

I'll give Jacob this: He seems like a stand up guy and he is F-I-T!

but he ruins it with "the priiize." <_<

[Ryzaki]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
Just plug your ears and get you some of those 6 pack abs Ryzaki.

Nope. The six pack abs can't stop the horror that is "the priiize." nor anying that comes out of his mouth to be honest.

Plus: He manages to be more dull than Kaidan! That alone is bad.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 avril 2010 - 07:02 .

[Wittand25]

Sevrun wrote...

ok, the Shep/Jacob thing... nah. that actually makes my stomach roll. Mordin being potentially curios in that regard... while scary in it's own right not so much. Who'd wanna try beddin a hamster on coffee?

Tali kinda stands in the middle by her very mysterious and girlish crush on Shep... and yeah, I'll admit I actually kinda expected Jack to swing that way. I haven't really explored the romance options much... galaxy to save and all that (wife constantly leaning over my shoulder unless I play at 1 am )

Jacob´s dialog about Cerberus and fraternisation did sound like he was interested in MShep to me. I was quite disappointed that Shepard could not ask him if that was supposed to be an offer or not.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Sevrun wrote...

I dunno, as far as what the first one was gettin at, I could kinda see the point of having perhaps one of each that'd go for one of their own so to speak. But I look at things like that as an array of statistics and what they're lookin for simply isn't supported by the numbers. Not all humans are willing to swing both waysso why should every human love interest in a game? 'Because it's a game' is a rather weak argument and 'Because I'm paying for it' would be every bit as arrogant as I probably sounded at first. I lean toward option C. If they're that interested in a piece of tail then go get a real one, cause just watchin ain't gonna get it done...

If it does, they've got other serious issues and should consult a medical professional IMMEDIATELY!

'Realism' isn't an argument for exclusion, and honestly it seems like the only people who bring it up are those who already get to see the orientation(s) they're interested in (hetero, maybe two-chicks-if-they're-hot). No, not everyone's gay or bi - but you know how many people are some variant of amoral sexy (not quite shoeless) god of war? Perishingly few. How about warrior-monks with a rack that defies gravity? Even fewer. Soulful, ex-assassins with tragic past and future? I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. And this boatload of improbable, jaded, jerky dysfunctionals somehow doesn't murder one another in their sleep, and a quarter of them are willing to bang their commander. Yes, this scenario is totally likely to happen, and is very proportionately representative of real-world human characteristics.

<_<

Please, stop bringing up 'realism' to try and excuse why meaningful gay/bi options aren't there (outside of Liara for FemShep, and only in ME1), but all manner of other improbable characters or characterizations are. Particularly since no one who brings up this argument uses it against the existing hetero LIs. In a created universe with characters and events that defy the odds in every way, somehow sexual orientation is the quality that needs to be represented in-game with fidelity to IRL statistics? Your priviledge is showing.

Edited because I really should quote the post I was replying to. Yay sleepiness.

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 27 avril 2010 - 08:06 .

[The_KFD_Case]

SorenTrigg wrote...

KFD, do you play a female Shepard? And if so, have you talked to Tali a lot?

She is one of the characters that really seems interested in female Shepard, *especially* with the suit linking dialogue and getting all flustered if Shepard tells her she finds that sweet.

I have not played as a female Shepard in ME2 yet, and yes, I have listened to/watched part of the voice clip exchanges between Tali and a female Shepard. It hints at romance and yet it stops short. Whether one chooses to interpret this as proof that BioWare intended for Tali'Zorah to be bisexual, or whether one chooses to interpret this as proof that BioWare intended for Tali'Zorah not to be bisexual falls to each individual. However the fact remains that as of present time Tali'Zorah is not a LI for female Shepards and as established previously we can only act practically based upon what we are able to know. We know that Tali'Zorah is a LI for male Shepards. Until such a time comes where BioWare decides to elaborate on Tali'Zorah's sexual orientation - if that ever happens - she remains heterosexual and not bi-sexual based upon the concrete evidence at hand.


P.S. There also exists a much more mundane possibility: That BioWare included the other side of the proverbial coin in regards to LI dialogue as a matter of practicality from a perspective of labour combined with pending decisions on which course of action they were going to follow. After all, why go back and do all the setup work if you can do it at the same time you are setting up all the same dialogue, etc. which is guaranteed to be used for at least one of the genders? Or as some might put it (far less flatteringly): BioWare got lazy on those parts.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 27 avril 2010 - 09:10 .

[Gundar3]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

SorenTrigg wrote...

KFD, do you play a female Shepard? And if so, have you talked to Tali a lot?

She is one of the characters that really seems interested in female Shepard, *especially* with the suit linking dialogue and getting all flustered if Shepard tells her she finds that sweet.

I have not played as a female Shepard in ME2 yet, and yes, I have listened/watched part of the voice clip exchanges between Tali and a female Shepard. It hints at romance and yet it stops short. Whether one chooses to interpret this as proof that BioWare intended for Tali'Zorah to be bisexual, or whether one chooses to interpret this as proof that BioWare intended for Tali'Zorah not to be bisexual falls to each individual. However the fact remains that as of present time Tali'Zorah is not a LI for female Shepards and as established previously we can only operate based upon what we are able to know. We know that Tali'Zorah is a LI for male Shepards. Until such a time comes where BioWare decides to elaborate on Tali'Zorah's sexual orientation - if that ever happens - she remains heterosexual and not bi-sexual based upon the concrete evidence at hand.

Seems like much stronger evidence that Bioware simply didnt take the time to change the dialogue Tali says or that she is simply giving femshep a complament.  Either way, I think people are looking way too much into this.

[The_KFD_Case]

Gundar3 wrote...

Seems like much stronger evidence that Bioware simply didnt take the time to change the dialogue Tali says or that she is simply giving femshep a complament.  Either way, I think people are looking way too much into this.

Aye, I was adding that to my previous comment while you were posting this comment apparently.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 27 avril 2010 - 08:58 .

[Ryzaki]

Gundar3 wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

SorenTrigg wrote...

KFD, do you play a female Shepard? And if so, have you talked to Tali a lot?

She is one of the characters that really seems interested in female Shepard, *especially* with the suit linking dialogue and getting all flustered if Shepard tells her she finds that sweet.

I have not played as a female Shepard in ME2 yet, and yes, I have listened/watched part of the voice clip exchanges between Tali and a female Shepard. It hints at romance and yet it stops short. Whether one chooses to interpret this as proof that BioWare intended for Tali'Zorah to be bisexual, or whether one chooses to interpret this as proof that BioWare intended for Tali'Zorah not to be bisexual falls to each individual. However the fact remains that as of present time Tali'Zorah is not a LI for female Shepards and as established previously we can only operate based upon what we are able to know. We know that Tali'Zorah is a LI for male Shepards. Until such a time comes where BioWare decides to elaborate on Tali'Zorah's sexual orientation - if that ever happens - she remains heterosexual and not bi-sexual based upon the concrete evidence at hand.

Seems like much stronger evidence that Bioware simply didnt take the time to change the dialogue Tali says or that she is simply giving femshep a complament.  Either way, I think people are looking way too much into this.

True but one could say that's evidence that Tali was more shy to approach femShep than Male Shep. Or that she wasn't sure of how to approach her and thus decided not to.

That's the thing with interpretations. Everyone can have different ones. <3

Also: Yeah a lot of Jacob's dialogue was ho yaytastic due to bad editing.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 avril 2010 - 09:00 .

[Darkhour]

Siansonea II wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

Excuse me, but considering that homophobia is defined as an irrational fear of homosexuality, the hope that we will one day be rid of that kind of incongruous thinking isn't so much a declaration of  moral superiourity as an expression of reason.

I doubt the homophobes would agree with that definition. If I let people with one set of values define another group with an opposing set of values can I honestly expect and objective unbiased definition? Of course not.

Nordic Einar wrote...

Yeah, how dare she hold to the belief that inclusion and mutual respect, as opposed to exclusion and homophobia, are the ideals we should strive for. <_<

I know American culture has fostered this belief that all opinions are equally valid, but straight up? Inclusion is better than exclusion, and respect is greater than blind or irrational distaste. A crazy concept, I know.

If all you're going to do is arbitrarily dictate that your views are rational, logical, open-minded, etc. and any opposing view is close-minded, irrational and blind then you demonstrate my point. Typical self righteous pompous arrogance.

Maybe there is a guy who wants to have a love interst who is a consenting prepubescent ten year old. And you not being a close-minded bigot would support this I'm sure. Because inclusion is better than exclusion and respect is greater than blind and irrational distaste. I'm sure there is a thread wanting graphic sex and nudity, intercourse with hanar, krogan, varren, shifty looking cows, etc. I'm sure you'd welcome them all, but eveyone isn't as open-minded as you. 

I do not equate homosexuality with pedophilia. A ten-year-old is not capable of informed consent. This analogy is not applicable.

If you wish to label me pompous and arrogant, you are free to do so. I am not diminished by it.

Ah, another arbitrary assertion that is tossed around as if it is some kind of established fact. So 10 year olds are ALL retarded and can't comprehend a decision to have intercourse... accept when they do it amongst other youths. How old is old enough to be capable of consent? 12? 14? What is the magic number that ALL human beings, on the date of their birth, suddenly attain mental clarity? How about if Shepard could romance a 16 year old? Would you support that?

I never equated homosexuality to pedohilia. Nor did I equate pedophilia to bestiality. However, excluding people who are sexually aroused by factors that differeniate from my own is close-minded, ignorant and irrational according to you. So their sexual preferences should be included in the romance options along with the mainstream. Or perhaps I read you wrong. Perphaps you're just a hypocrite who only "mutually respects" ideas that don't conflict with your own.

[lastpatriot]

-removed-

Modifié par javierabegazo, 27 avril 2010 - 03:42 .

[Temper_Graniteskul]

lastpatriot wrote...

Ugh.. can't we just end these stupid topics? Really, are some of you so desperate in your RL relationships that you have to try and have all this crap put into a game? What was I thinking that a game should be about having fun?

I find the combat fun (mostly). I find the dialogue and character interaction fun. I find the romances fun, and would find them more fun if there were some s/s options, especially m/m, in the mix. I wasn't aware that by doing this I was somehow playing the game wrong. One person's 'crap' is another's feature; if you don't like it, feel free to ignore it.

[LiquidGrape]

lastpatriot wrote...

Ugh.. can't we just end these stupid topics? Really, are some of you so desperate in your RL relationships that you have to try and have all this crap put into a game? What was I thinking that a game should be about having fun?

Wait...I remember you...
Didn't you show up in here a few weeks ago and conceded by yourself that it was none of your business to pass arrogant and misguided judgement on people whose goals do by no means "infringe" on your well-being?
Did your long-term memory deficit kick in? What's the problem?

[javierabegazo]

@lastpatriot



Look, just stay out of the thread if you don't like it. It stays civil, and there's no need to repress such a topic, so as long as it's civil it stays. Whenever posters come making comments like yours, trolling starts happening.



Stay out of the thread if you have nothing to discuss



(yes, this is a warning )

[Siansonea]

Darkhour wrote...

Could you sound just tad bit more pompous and self righteous?

—————

This arrogant idea that your beliefs constitute a superior mindset. If only people who don't think like you could evolve to your level and embrass your smugly superior beliefs which apparently constitute some kind of universal objective fact.

—————

I doubt the homophobes would agree with that definition. If I let people with one set of values define another group with an opposing set of values can I honestly expect and objective unbiased definition? Of course not.

—————

If all you're going to do is arbitrarily dictate that your views are rational, logical, open-minded, etc. and any opposing view is close-minded, irrational and blind then you demonstrate my point. Typical self righteous pompous arrogance.

Maybe there is a guy who wants to have a love interst who is a consenting prepubescent ten year old. And you not being a close-minded bigot would support this I'm sure. Because inclusion is better than exclusion and respect is greater than blind and irrational distaste. I'm sure there is a thread wanting graphic sex and nudity, intercourse with hanar, krogan, varren, shifty looking cows, etc. I'm sure you'd welcome them all, but eveyone isn't as open-minded as you.

—————

Ah, another arbitrary assertion that is tossed around as if it is some kind of established fact. So 10 year olds are ALL retarded and can't comprehend a decision to have intercourse... accept when they do it amongst other youths. How old is old enough to be capable of consent? 12? 14? What is the magic number that ALL human beings, on the date of their birth, suddenly attain mental clarity? How about if Shepard could romance a 16 year old? Would you support that?

I never equated homosexuality to pedohilia. Nor did I equate pedophilia to bestiality. However, excluding people who are sexually aroused by factors that differeniate from my own is close-minded, ignorant and irrational according to you. So their sexual preferences should be included in the romance options along with the mainstream. Or perhaps I read you wrong. Perphaps you're just a hypocrite who only "mutually respects" ideas that don't conflict with your own.

More name calling, I see. As a persuasion tactic, I find it ineffective. I did want to acknowledge it, lest you believe my perception is not acute. Consider it acknowledged.

You appear to be putting forth the example of a romance option with a 10-year-old as a legitimate comparison to the topic at hand, same-sex romances. Your example seems to point to this scenario as one that we should consider on the same terms as a same-sex romance. If this is not your intent, if you are simply playing devil's advocate, this should probably be clarified.

But that's not what this is really about, is it? Your participation in this thread is more about a perceived arrogance or pomposity on my part and on the part of others who support the same-sex initiative. It is not clear to me whether you support or oppose this initiative yourself. You tell us we are hypocritical because we see the inclusion of same-sex romances as an indicator of an enlightened attitude, and yet we do not also embrace exploitative relationships. This attitude appears more emotion-based, due to an expressed dislike of perceived pomposity/arrogance, rather than based on a dispassionate evaluation of the topic at hand. Clearly, your example is not equivalent to the rest of the discussion, your passionate insistence of its validity does not make it so.

You appear to be using the 'proximity' method of debate, simply by mentioning pedophilia and bestiality within the context of a rebuttal, you seek to categorize them as related concepts. This is not a productive method of moving the discussion forward.

For my part, I do think there are certain criteria that differentiate reasonable behavior and unreasonable behavior. Adults of the same gender who agree to a romantic relationship are not in the same category as adults of either gender who wish to pursue relationships with children of either gender. I hope my views on this matter are sufficiently clear.

[The Uncanny]

javierabegazo wrote...

Look, just stay out of the thread if you don't like it. It stays civil, and there's no need to repress such a topic, so as long as it's civil it stays.

Thanks Javier. 

[Siansonea]

Personally, I find the idea of Tali as a love interest that can be consummated to be much more preposterous than any considerations that a couple of existing characters could be revealed to be bisexual. We don't know everything about any of them, but we do know that Tali literally risks her health and possibly her life to have skin-to-skin contact with another person. I can see how two quarians with linked suit environments could eventually be mutually immune to each other to have a meaningful relationship, but Tali/Shepard seems like it is too great a risk for Tali's health. Tali having an impossible crush on Shepard, and Shepard liking her is believable, but it is an impossible situation. Issues of sexuality aside, this is not a relationship with potential to be more than just flirtation. I found the whole 'antibiotics' solution to be a hand-wave, and the whole relationship smells of fanservice to me.

For me, it wouldn't really distort my perception of certain characters if they reveal to Shepard in ME3 that they are bisexual and interested in a same-sex relationship. Not every character, certainly, but Kaidan and Miranda seem to be the likeliest candidates. Just because Miranda doesn't throw female Shepard on the floor of the engine room in ME2 doesn't mean that on some level she's considering a relationship with her. And with Kaidan, everything about him in ME1 and ME2 illustrates that he is an introspective, reasonable and open-minded person. It is not inconceivable that a man like that might think to himself "I never thought I would go for a man, but Shepard...". This sort of thing happens in real life, people discover later in life that their sexuality is more mutable than they may have once believed. For self-aware, self-possessed people like Miranda and Kaidan to come to this conclusion is plausible to me.

[Wittand25]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...
P.S. There also exists a much more mundane possibility: That BioWare included the other side of the proverbial coin in regards to LI dialogue as a matter of practicality from a perspective of labour combined with pending decisions on which course of action they were going to follow. After all, why go back and do all the setup work if you can do it at the same time you are setting up all the same dialogue, etc. which is guaranteed to be used for at least one of the genders? Or as some might put it (far less flatteringly): BioWare got lazy on those parts.

I came to a somewhat similar conclusion to this when that last interview was released in that article a little while back about s/s romance that had so many upset over.

I assume that they did all of the dialog early.  Sometime later on I assume, they sat down with the publisher and decided what the final product would look like.  I assume that after making these decisions, they got a little sloppy and the final product was left a little unpolished.

I can't rembember Jack's specific lines. I have not scene some of the dialog that I have been told about Tali, but if she does indeed look to be flirtatious with FemShep (which is up to interpretation), then why would Bioware do it intentionally?  To tease players?  I wouldn't think so.  To set up Tali as BI is ME3?  Still doesn't sound right to me.

Apart from her polyamorous affair with a couple, Jack also respons to Shepard´s question if there is someone special in her life with "A boyfriend or girlfriend, no " which is an odd way for a straight woman to say that she is single.

It has been confirmed by a Bioware employee in the old forums that same-sex relationships in ME were planned but cut later for some reason. It is just not like Bioware to be this sloppy with removing traces of cut content, e.g. in BG2 without the savegame editor you would never know that the tiefling was supposed to be a romance option for females but got cut in development.
Another problem with the LI in ME2 is that they only have the gender check at the start of the romance so all dialog before that needs to be ambigous out of the necessity to be able to work for both Shepards in different ways.