Aller au contenu

Photo

Same Sex Romances


7455 réponses à ce sujet

#6351
Onyx Jaguar

Onyx Jaguar
  • Members
  • 13 003 messages

Ryzaki wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

No that would rewrite the characters to fit how your character should be written. Might as well change their names and all of their dialogue to.


But wouldn't the whole straight toggle already do that to the Bi character? :huh:


Well I am not gonna speak for whoever brought up the toggle.  From what I understood of what JohnnyDollar was advocating was something along the lines of

You create a character, you can make them either gay/bi/straight with unique dialogue options for each category

So lets apply this to ME 2

Lets use assume Femshep as there already is a bisexual option

As a straight character you could romance Garrus
As a Bisexual character you could romance Garrus/Kelly/some other character
As a gay character you could romance Kelly/some other character

More or less

It wouldn't change the orientation of Kelly, she'd still be bisexual.  But your character would not come onto her unless your character was gay/bi.  Also if your character was gay/bi your character would not come onto Garrus as he is a straight character.

This is how it played through in my head anyway.

#6352
Ryzaki

Ryzaki
  • Members
  • 34 427 messages

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

No that would rewrite the characters to fit how your character should be written. Might as well change their names and all of their dialogue to.


But wouldn't the whole straight toggle already do that to the Bi character? :huh:


Well I am not gonna speak for whoever brought up the toggle.  From what I understood of what JohnnyDollar was advocating was something along the lines of

You create a character, you can make them either gay/bi/straight with unique dialogue options for each category

So lets apply this to ME 2

Lets use assume Femshep as there already is a bisexual option

As a straight character you could romance Garrus
As a Bisexual character you could romance Garrus/Kelly/some other character
As a gay character you could romance Kelly/some other character

More or less

It wouldn't change the orientation of Kelly, she'd still be bisexual.  But your character would not come onto her unless your character was gay/bi.  Also if your character was gay/bi your character would not come onto Garrus as he is a straight character.

This is how it played through in my head anyway.


Oh. I was thinking more of the lines of Kelly would be free to come on to you if you picked the Bisexual option where's if you picked the straight one she wouldn't come onto you and you'd never be able to come onto her. No female characters would flirt with your female character and only males would and you'd only be able to flirt with male characters. Thus changing the dynamic between the two characters. (Maybe she's be more serious and less flirty if you're a female, maybe she wouldn't tell you certain things (like past lovers that were the same gender) or would change her lovers gender to fit the straight setting.

Thus changing her.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 mai 2010 - 08:33 .


#6353
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

You create a character, you can make them either gay/bi/straight with unique dialogue options for each category

So lets apply this to ME 2

Lets use assume Femshep as there already is a bisexual option

As a straight character you could romance Garrus
As a Bisexual character you could romance Garrus/Kelly/some other character
As a gay character you could romance Kelly/some other character

More or less

It wouldn't change the orientation of Kelly, she'd still be bisexual.  But your character would not come onto her unless your character was gay/bi.  Also if your character was gay/bi your character would not come onto Garrus as he is a straight character.

This is how it played through in my head anyway.



I actually think changing the orientation of the characters would be much, much better than this.

#6354
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

Ryzaki wrote...

Have you played Star Ocean 2 before? 

Not the biggest of differences but there's enough of one between the two main characters.


I haven´t.

#6355
Onyx Jaguar

Onyx Jaguar
  • Members
  • 13 003 messages

Tirigon wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

You create a character, you can make them either gay/bi/straight with unique dialogue options for each category

So lets apply this to ME 2

Lets use assume Femshep as there already is a bisexual option

As a straight character you could romance Garrus
As a Bisexual character you could romance Garrus/Kelly/some other character
As a gay character you could romance Kelly/some other character

More or less

It wouldn't change the orientation of Kelly, she'd still be bisexual.  But your character would not come onto her unless your character was gay/bi.  Also if your character was gay/bi your character would not come onto Garrus as he is a straight character.

This is how it played through in my head anyway.



I actually think changing the orientation of the characters would be much, much better than this.


Why rewrite the characters?  Why exert that much control over the NPCs?

#6356
Ryzaki

Ryzaki
  • Members
  • 34 427 messages

Tirigon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Have you played Star Ocean 2 before? 

Not the biggest of differences but there's enough of one between the two main characters.


I haven´t.


Well I'll go OT for a moment. THere's two main characters: Claude and Rena the game changes who you can recruit, how certain characters react to you and some endings depending on which you choose to play from the beginning. (Also some game events are told from the other character's point of view). Its a good game. Old but there's a remake for the PSP that looks a lot better. You should play it.

#6357
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Why rewrite the characters?  Why exert that much control over the NPCs?


Because playing a game is, essentially, about fun. If you want to have every LI for both genders because that´s how you prefer to play your game, you should have this chance.

If, on the other hand, you consider gays to be perverted or sick or whatever and don´t want them in your game you should have this chance, too. (Even though I personally think people with this attitude are stupid and need a good kick in the face:police:.)

A game isn´t about teaching you tolerance, though it was great if it did.

#6358
Ryzaki

Ryzaki
  • Members
  • 34 427 messages

Tirigon wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Why rewrite the characters?  Why exert that much control over the NPCs?


Because playing a game is, essentially, about fun. If you want to have every LI for both genders because that´s how you prefer to play your game, you should have this chance.

If, on the other hand, you consider gays to be perverted or sick or whatever and don´t want them in your game you should have this chance, too. (Even though I personally think people with this attitude are stupid and need a good kick in the face:police:.)

A game isn´t about teaching you tolerance, though it was great if it did.


True. That would be nice. :lol: Someone can turn of the homosexuality if they didn't want it. And someone else could turn on all the characters to be bi.

Makes as much sense as turning homosexuality off.

#6359
Nordic Einar

Nordic Einar
  • Members
  • 108 messages

The_KFD_Case wrote...
That idea could also be accommodated as required. A player could choose Paragon, Renegade, None, or Open (resulting in the current setup we've experienced in the ME games).


At what point does this game then stop becoming a roleplaying game and start becoming a Choose Your Own Adventure Read Along Book With Shooting Scenes? You're being obtuse.

The_KFD_Case wrote...
Some people appear hell bent on turning this entertainment medium in to a crusade for the type of world they desire to see in real life. As JohnnyDollar has already pointed out that is not the role of the ME games nor games in general. Nor for businesses in general.


Positive portrayal in media has a massive impact on social views of oppressed minorities. To suggest otherwise betrays a lack of academic knowledge in the fields of sociology and advertising. Bioware is under no obligation to be inclusive - but they have been in the past. It is absolutely within me right to continue to encourage them to be so; by purchasing their games when they are so, and by vocally informing them that I disapprove when they aren't.

The_KFD_Case wrote...Furthermore, asking/demanding the option for s/s LIs and bemoaning that there are people whom don't share one's enthusiasm for such an outcome while then proceeding to ridicule and dismiss some of those people's personal views because they are not in sync with one's own makes those individuals just as guilty of the same type of behaviour that they are a lambasting others for.


Beliefs and opinions, despite what some people seem to believe in this country, are not universally equal. I know this is hard to understand, but asking for equal representation in media is not the same thing as oppressively demanding a minority be excluded. There is a pretty significant difference between the two.


The_KFD_Case wrote...I have little problem with people expressing their desires regarding including or excluding s/s LIs in this thread, however if one is so determined to bring about a change in views regarding sexual orientations, etc. perhaps the time and effort spent in this forum pursuing such an outcome would be put to more effective use pursuing said outcome in the real world. You know, the world that you actually live in and have to deal with on a daily basis one way or another.


Did you honestly just ask me to show my "GLBT Activist Street Cred Card"?

Alright, we'll play that game. In the last 3 years I have spent what likely amounts to ~60 hours a week involved in a variety of campaigns involved in the furthering of equality for myself and the rest of my GLBT brothers and sisters. The work I've done at my University has changed their hiring and recruitment policies to be LGBT Inclusive. I spearheaded the creation of SAFE-Spaces for GLBT peoples on campus. I volunteer at Triangle, a Michigan based GLBT Legal Advocacy firm. I have participated in the crafting of studies for several Michigan based GLBT-Research firms, to show legalsatures the damage discrimination and exclusion does to GLBT individuals. I've phone banked for every major Anti-Gay marriage prop 8 esque campaign, from Maine to California. I protested, marched, and lobbied in Kalamazoo when they passed their Equal Housing and Employment ordinance for GLBT people. I drove 1300 miles to Washington D.C to participate in National Equality March.

I am more than able to devote a significant portion of my time to promoting social equality and still find the 5 minutes a day it takes me to browse and post in threads like this. I know, it's shocking, but spending time persuing social change in one aspect of society doesn't preclude me from persuing it in others. In fact, I can persue multiple avenues at the same time. :o

#6360
Sago_mulch

Sago_mulch
  • Members
  • 836 messages

Tirigon wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Why rewrite the characters?  Why exert that much control over the NPCs?


Because playing a game is, essentially, about fun. If you want to have every LI for both genders because that´s how you prefer to play your game, you should have this chance.

If, on the other hand, you consider gays to be perverted or sick or whatever and don´t want them in your game you should have this chance, too. (Even though I personally think people with this attitude are stupid and need a good kick in the face:police:.)

A game isn´t about teaching you tolerance, though it was great if it did.


GO PLAY DATING SIMS IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT LOVE INTERESTS IN A VIDEO GAME.

ZAEED ROMANCED A GUN CALLED JESSIE, WHY NOT LOVE THE CHARACTERS THAT WOULDN'T LOVE YOU BACK ANYWAY? LIKE UNREQUITED LOVE. ISN'T THAT WHAT VIDEO GAME ROMANCE IS?


#6361
Ryzaki

Ryzaki
  • Members
  • 34 427 messages
Also this toggle doesn't kill two birds with one stone like the colored text does. But of course that doesn't matter because apparently I'm "pushing my views" on other people eh?

Unless we're going to use the toggle and the colored text. But that's a little much.

Oh well. Ninja romancing FTW! :wizard:

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 mai 2010 - 08:52 .


#6362
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

Sago_mulch wrote...

GO PLAY DATING SIMS IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT LOVE INTERESTS IN A VIDEO GAME.

ZAEED ROMANCED A GUN CALLED JESSIE, WHY NOT LOVE THE CHARACTERS THAT WOULDN'T LOVE YOU BACK ANYWAY? LIKE UNREQUITED LOVE. ISN'T THAT WHAT VIDEO GAME ROMANCE IS?



I´s using CAPSLOCK!! I AM RIGHT!!!!!!!


Thx for the tip. I will carefully consider it and then tell you I have decided to ignore it.

#6363
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

Nordic Einar wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...
Some people appear hell bent on turning this entertainment medium in to a crusade for the type of world they desire to see in real life. As JohnnyDollar has already pointed out that is not the role of the ME games nor games in general. Nor for businesses in general.


Positive portrayal in media has a massive impact on social views of oppressed minorities. To suggest otherwise betrays a lack of academic knowledge in the fields of sociology and advertising. Bioware is under no obligation to be inclusive - but they have been in the past. It is absolutely within me right to continue to encourage them to be so; by purchasing their games when they are so, and by vocally informing them that I disapprove when they aren't.

"Positive portrayal" is very subjective IMO, and swings several ways.  I see people in the media put on a pedistal and to somehow be looked up to and adored simply because of their physical appearance for example.  I do not find all portayals in the media to be necessarily positive.  The postivie or lack of postive portrayal of "opressed minorities" is just as subjective IMO.  Your digging into the realm of differing political ideologies with this IMO, and possibly making the assumption that your ideological views are indeed the correct ones, while any others are not.

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 02 mai 2010 - 09:25 .


#6364
Ryzaki

Ryzaki
  • Members
  • 34 427 messages
Totally off topic: Is it normal if you've gone without eating for 3 weeks to only be able to eat 2 bites of something before feeling full to the point of bursting?

Edit: I just finished reading Zero to the Bone by Jane Seville and The Warrior's Cross by Madeleine Urban & Abigail Roux both featured male protagonists who were BAMFs and were in a gay relationship. So yeah. The whole BAMFs can't be gay kind of seems a bit silly now.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 mai 2010 - 09:45 .


#6365
Nordic Einar

Nordic Einar
  • Members
  • 108 messages

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Nordic Einar wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...
Some people appear hell bent on turning this entertainment medium in to a crusade for the type of world they desire to see in real life. As JohnnyDollar has already pointed out that is not the role of the ME games nor games in general. Nor for businesses in general.


Positive portrayal in media has a massive impact on social views of oppressed minorities. To suggest otherwise betrays a lack of academic knowledge in the fields of sociology and advertising. Bioware is under no obligation to be inclusive - but they have been in the past. It is absolutely within me right to continue to encourage them to be so; by purchasing their games when they are so, and by vocally informing them that I disapprove when they aren't.

"Positive portrayal" is very subjective IMO, and swings several ways.  I see people in the media put on a pedistal and to somehow be looked up to and adored simply because of their physical appearance for example.  I do not find all portayals in the media to be necessarily positive.  The postivie or lack of postive portrayal of "opressed minorities" is just as subjective IMO.  Your digging into the realm of differing political ideologies with this IMO, and possibly making the assumption that your ideological views are indeed the correct ones, while any others are not.


Actually, I'm digging into the realm of sociology and science. As non-negative portrayals of homosexuals has gone up over the last 2 decades (think - homosexuals portrayed as main characters, homosexuals portrayed as noble, homosexuals portrayed as normal) public support of homosexuals has also increased.

The only political ideology I've posited here is "Equal Rights and Inclusion are better than Discrmination and Exclusion" and I'm going to go out on a limb here and say yes, this is the correct one. You can defend bigotry if you really want to, though.

Also, did oppressed minorities really need to be in quotes? Do you honestly think homosexuals aren't oppressed in western society?

Modifié par Nordic Einar, 02 mai 2010 - 09:34 .


#6366
Siansonea

Siansonea
  • Members
  • 7 282 messages
Well, at least we've established that on both sides of this issue, there are people who simply will not compromise. Kudos, I guess. Personally I think that's a good way to become what you despise.

#6367
Ryzaki

Ryzaki
  • Members
  • 34 427 messages

Siansonea II wrote...

Well, at least we've established that on both sides of this issue, there are people who simply will not compromise. Kudos, I guess. Personally I think that's a good way to become what you despise.


That's true for everything though. You name me something and I can break it down to a point where their won't be a compromise. The point of a compromise is both sides have to gain and lose something. One side losing something and the other gaining isn't exactly a compromise. (or at least not a very fair one). Oh well.

And I'm willing to compromise with the toggle, and I'm sure there's others willing to compromise with something other than the toggle.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 mai 2010 - 09:47 .


#6368
Siansonea

Siansonea
  • Members
  • 7 282 messages

Ryzaki wrote...

Totally off topic: Is it normal if you've gone without eating for 3 weeks to only be able to eat 2 bites of something before feeling full to the point of bursting?

Edit: I just finished reading Zero to the Bone by Jane Seville and The Warrior's Cross by Madeleine Urban & Abigail Roux both featured male protagonists who were BAMFs and were in a gay relationship. So yeah. The whole BAMFs can't be gay kind of seems a bit silly now.


Is this eating thing a hypothetical situation? If not, this sounds like a serious medical problem.

#6369
Ryzaki

Ryzaki
  • Members
  • 34 427 messages

Siansonea II wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Totally off topic: Is it normal if you've gone without eating for 3 weeks to only be able to eat 2 bites of something before feeling full to the point of bursting?

Edit: I just finished reading Zero to the Bone by Jane Seville and The Warrior's Cross by Madeleine Urban & Abigail Roux both featured male protagonists who were BAMFs and were in a gay relationship. So yeah. The whole BAMFs can't be gay kind of seems a bit silly now.


Is this eating thing a hypothetical situation? If not, this sounds like a serious medical problem.


/me had no food an no choice.

I don't know...I just got some food from my mom and ate a whole can of fruit coattail (one of those small one can severing) and I feel bloated and nauseous. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna throw it up soon.

Edit: good thing is those jeans that were too tight I can fit now. :lol:

I see why those models do this. Feels great.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 mai 2010 - 09:54 .


#6370
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

Ryzaki wrote...

Totally off topic: Is it normal if you've gone without eating for 3 weeks to only be able to eat 2 bites of something before feeling full to the point of bursting?



Totally Off-topic: I never tried it myself, but I´m certainly told so.

#6371
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

Nordic Einar wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Nordic Einar wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...
Some people appear hell bent on turning this entertainment medium in to a crusade for the type of world they desire to see in real life. As JohnnyDollar has already pointed out that is not the role of the ME games nor games in general. Nor for businesses in general.


Positive portrayal in media has a massive impact on social views of oppressed minorities. To suggest otherwise betrays a lack of academic knowledge in the fields of sociology and advertising. Bioware is under no obligation to be inclusive - but they have been in the past. It is absolutely within me right to continue to encourage them to be so; by purchasing their games when they are so, and by vocally informing them that I disapprove when they aren't.

"Positive portrayal" is very subjective IMO, and swings several ways.  I see people in the media put on a pedistal and to somehow be looked up to and adored simply because of their physical appearance for example.  I do not find all portayals in the media to be necessarily positive.  The postivie or lack of postive portrayal of "opressed minorities" is just as subjective IMO.  Your digging into the realm of differing political ideologies with this IMO, and possibly making the assumption that your ideological views are indeed the correct ones, while any others are not.

Actually, I'm digging into the realm of sociology and science. As non-negative portrayals of homosexuals has gone up over the last 2 decades (think - homosexuals portrayed as main characters, homosexuals portrayed as noble, homosexuals portrayed as normal) public support of homosexuals has also increased.

The only political ideology I've posited here is "Equal Rights and Inclusion are better than Discrmination and Exclusion" and I'm going to go out on a limb here and say yes, this is the correct one. You can defend bigotry if you really want to, though.

Also, did oppressed minorities really need to be in quotes? Do you honestly think homosexuals aren't oppressed in western society?

What is considered as negative or positive portrayal is subjective IMO.

I have no problem with inclusion and equal rights.  I agree with inclusion and equal rights.  How exactly we get there is a totally different animal IMO.  That is where ideology comes into play IMO.  Your assuming that since I don't necessarily agree with a specific method or approach to promote inclusion and equal rights, that I am defending bigotry.

You used the broad term oppressed minorities in your prior statement, not more specifically the term oppressed homosexuals. 

I do believe that homosexuals are opressed in western society.

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 02 mai 2010 - 09:52 .


#6372
Siansonea

Siansonea
  • Members
  • 7 282 messages

Ryzaki wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Well, at least we've established that on both sides of this issue, there are people who simply will not compromise. Kudos, I guess. Personally I think that's a good way to become what you despise.


That's true for everything though. You name me something and I can break it down to a point where their won't be a compromise. The point of a compromise is both sides have to gain and lose something. One side losing something and the other gaining isn't exactly a compromise. (or at least not a very fair one). Oh well.

And I'm willing to compromise with the toggle, and I'm sure there's others willing to compromise with something other than the toggle.

I actually prefer to focus on areas where compromise can be found. It seems like a lot of people on this thread are just refusing to entertain the idea of compromise because 'the other side is just wrong'. Talk about counterproductive.

#6373
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

Nordic Einar wrote...

Actually, I'm digging into the realm of sociology and science. As non-negative portrayals of homosexuals has gone up over the last 2 decades (think - homosexuals portrayed as main characters, homosexuals portrayed as noble, homosexuals portrayed as normal) public support of homosexuals has also increased.


I rather think it´s the other way round: homosexuals are portrayed more positive because the acceptance of homosexuality has increased.

#6374
Ryzaki

Ryzaki
  • Members
  • 34 427 messages

Siansonea II wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Well, at least we've established that on both sides of this issue, there are people who simply will not compromise. Kudos, I guess. Personally I think that's a good way to become what you despise.


That's true for everything though. You name me something and I can break it down to a point where their won't be a compromise. The point of a compromise is both sides have to gain and lose something. One side losing something and the other gaining isn't exactly a compromise. (or at least not a very fair one). Oh well.

And I'm willing to compromise with the toggle, and I'm sure there's others willing to compromise with something other than the toggle.

I actually prefer to focus on areas where compromise can be found. It seems like a lot of people on this thread are just refusing to entertain the idea of compromise because 'the other side is just wrong'. Talk about counterproductive.




Ah I see. Yeah though maybe if we compromise with the toggle the other side can compromise with more than one Bi LI? 

Seems fair seeing as they don't have to see it after all.

#6375
Tirigon

Tirigon
  • Members
  • 8 573 messages

Siansonea II wrote...

It seems like a lot of people on this thread are just refusing to entertain the idea of compromise because 'the other side is just wrong'.


Well they ARE wrong.