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[Ryzaki]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
*snip*

On topic:  I don't know. I get the feeling this toggle would end up with them attacked from both sides. The pro side for needing the toggle and the anti side for placing it in regardless of a toggle or not.

Then we'd get the "well X isn't canon because it needs to be toggled!!!" nonsense. <_<

I don't care what's canon and what isn't. My Shepards are my Shepards, and canon be hanged. By this logic, being an Adept/Infiltrator/Engineer or whatever isn't 'canon' because it's a toggle. BioWare's defaults are just a starting point for a custom Shepard, in my opinion, not a canon storyline.

/shrug.

I guess.

I've been burned by Revan debates far to often. "There's only one way to play Revan everything else is just *wrong*

[Ryzaki]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Em23 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...
If you think about it, Bioware is accomodating both sides this way, not just one side. That is also how it can be received.

That's my point though. I don't think bioware wants to be seen to be accommodating homophobia.
They want to do it, but not so they have to admit that's what they're doing.

How is ME2 seen right now in regards to accommodating anti-gays to you Em23?

How do you think ME2 is received in the public and the majority of players that actually don't even visit this forum with regards to accomodating anti-gays?

There are alot of unkowns here.  I am not versed in public relations myself.  It could be seen I  would think, as accomodating everyone, not just anti-gays in ME3.  As far as their statements or reactions go, that is unpredictable.  How this is actually received is unpredictable I would think also. 

But they DON'T look like they're accommadating homophobia right now. They simply look like they didn't include homosexual content. For any reason (which could include accomdating homophobia) that toggle would just make it a certanity.

[Ziggy]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Em23 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...
If you think about it, Bioware is accomodating both sides this way, not just one side. That is also how it can be received.

That's my point though. I don't think bioware wants to be seen to be accommodating homophobia.
They want to do it, but not so they have to admit that's what they're doing.

How is ME2 seen right now in regards to accommodating anti-gays to you Em23?

How do you think ME2 is received in the public and the majority of players that actually don't even visit this forum with regards to accomodating anti-gays?

There are alot of unkowns here.  I am not versed in public relations myself.  It could be seen I  would think, as accomodating everyone, not just anti-gays in ME3.  As far as their statements or reactions go, that is unpredictable.  How this is actually received is unpredictable I would think also. 

Obviously, ME2 does not accommodate gays and I would much prefer the honesty of a 'toggle'.
The majority of players don't care about ss romance and because it's absent prolly don't even think about it. From all that silly stuff bioware said to explain it it's clear they don't want to say they did it to accommodate anti-gays.
They will have to if they include the toggle.

[Ryzaki]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Em23 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...
If you think about it, Bioware is accomodating both sides this way, not just one side. That is also how it can be received.

That's my point though. I don't think bioware wants to be seen to be accommodating homophobia.
They want to do it, but not so they have to admit that's what they're doing.

How is ME2 seen right now in regards to accommodating anti-gays to you Em23?

How do you think ME2 is received in the public and the majority of players that actually don't even visit this forum with regards to accomodating anti-gays?

There are alot of unkowns here.  I am not versed in public relations myself.  It could be seen I  would think, as accomodating everyone, not just anti-gays in ME3.  As far as their statements or reactions go, that is unpredictable.  How this is actually received is unpredictable I would think also. 

But they DON'T look like they're accommadating homophobia right now. They simply look like they didn't include homosexual content. For any reason (which could include accomdating homophobia) that toggle would just make it a certanity.

They don't have the s/s content there at all Ryzaki.  That can be considered as accomodating anti-gays by your logic.

That toggle only proves that the player is given more choice in the game.  The rest is assumption and speculation as to just how it would be received to the public and to the majority of players that don't even visit the forums here.   

How is not having the content at all accomdating anti-gays?  It not being there can mean a lot of things. How on earth are you going by my logic by saying that? Is there not being any transsexual characters accomdating those that dislike transexuals? Is there not being any kittens being hurt accomadating PETA? 

The toggle is accomadating because it says "well we put it in the game but for your convience you can turn it off and turn them normal again!!!"

[Nordic Einar]

Siansonea II wrote...

SorenTrigg wrote...

Sian, I do not care if the other viewpoint is valid or not. It is not about making people comfortable. It is about being fair and having more options. There are plenty of heterosexual romances, but if it comes to same sex romances we *have* to compromise to get them put in?
Why?
I get that it makes people uncomfortable and some people are against it. But...so? As has been pointed out, there are tons of things in the games that make plenty of people uncomfortable, but they still get put in. So why does this one specific subject matter so much if people are uncomfortable or not?
Please do not bring up sales, that is something that none of us can gauge here.

So, do you even read my answers? Or do you just cut and paste a "Why?" response whenever you see that someone has posted a new message on this thread? It's like a three-year-old in the back seat of the car constantly asking "are we there yet?" Guess what? We're not there yet.

Seriously, what world do you live in? "It's not about making people comfortable?" Let me see if I have this right. You want BioWare to take a controversial stance on the same-sex issue, and if the majority of consumers out there don't like it, they can just not buy the game. Does that summarize your position accurately? Yeah, good luck with that one. You ask why? M-O-N-E-Y, that's WHY. Now stop asking why.

I don't know, I guess you were raised to think that the world is a fair place, that people are fair, and that life is fair. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the world is NOT a fair place, people are NOT fair, and life is NOT fair. The sooner you accept that, and deal with the world the way it actually is, the better off we'll all be.

I'd like to point out, yet again, that Bioware games have always sold extremely well. This includes games that have included S/S Romances. Unless you can cite a dependable source that inclusion of S/S content hurts sales this argument from you is baseless. As has been brought up many times, DA:O sold extremely well, despite including S/S romances. Indeed, they even included very abrasive S/S romances. Zevran hit on everything that moved - people got over it.

You can keep claiming that this is how it is - that doesn't make it true. Back up your sources and stop informing us that we're just being naive - because as it stands the only support I see for your position is your own words.

[Siansonea]

Em23 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Em23 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...
If you think about it, Bioware is accomodating both sides this way, not just one side. That is also how it can be received.

That's my point though. I don't think bioware wants to be seen to be accommodating homophobia.
They want to do it, but not so they have to admit that's what they're doing.

How is ME2 seen right now in regards to accommodating anti-gays to you Em23?

How do you think ME2 is received in the public and the majority of players that actually don't even visit this forum with regards to accomodating anti-gays?

There are alot of unkowns here.  I am not versed in public relations myself.  It could be seen I  would think, as accomodating everyone, not just anti-gays in ME3.  As far as their statements or reactions go, that is unpredictable.  How this is actually received is unpredictable I would think also. 

Obviously, ME2 does not accommodate gays and I would much prefer the honesty of a 'toggle'.
The majority of players don't care about ss romance and because it's absent prolly don't even think about it. From all that silly stuff bioware said to explain it it's clear they don't want to say they did it to accommodate anti-gays.
They will have to if they include the toggle.

What I don't get is why people act like it's a cardinal sin for BioWare to accommodate these consumers. Compromise is not a dirty word, people. Having the content present at all would be a victory, and they could answer any media outcry by focusing on what they're including, not how they're organizing it. I honestly think if the 'toggle' was part of an organic character creation process, no one would bat an eyelash about it. It would just seem like another Shepard customization option. My Shepard is a Soldier, has green eyes, grew up on Earth, got his team killed on Torfan, and likes men romantically. I don't see a political sh*tstorm in this scenario.

[Ryzaki]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Em23 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...
If you think about it, Bioware is accomodating both sides this way, not just one side. That is also how it can be received.

That's my point though. I don't think bioware wants to be seen to be accommodating homophobia.
They want to do it, but not so they have to admit that's what they're doing.

How is ME2 seen right now in regards to accommodating anti-gays to you Em23?

How do you think ME2 is received in the public and the majority of players that actually don't even visit this forum with regards to accomodating anti-gays?

There are alot of unkowns here.  I am not versed in public relations myself.  It could be seen I  would think, as accomodating everyone, not just anti-gays in ME3.  As far as their statements or reactions go, that is unpredictable.  How this is actually received is unpredictable I would think also. 

But they DON'T look like they're accommadating homophobia right now. They simply look like they didn't include homosexual content. For any reason (which could include accomdating homophobia) that toggle would just make it a certanity.

They don't have the s/s content there at all Ryzaki.  That can be considered as accomodating anti-gays by your logic.

That toggle only proves that the player is given more choice in the game.  The rest is assumption and speculation as to just how it would be received to the public and to the majority of players that don't even visit the forums here.   

How is not having the content at all accomdating anti-gays?  It not being there can mean a lot of things. How on earth are you going by my logic by saying that? Is there not being any transsexual characters accomdating those that dislike transexuals? Is there not being any kittens being hurt accomadating PETA? 

The toggle is accomadating because it says "well we put it in the game but for your convience you can turn it off and turn them normal again!!!"

The content isn't there.  One can say that the anti-gays are being accomodated.  Not me specifically saying it, but one could say that.

How it looks to you or me, is not the same as how it looks to the larger gamers that don't even visit this forum.  It also is not the same as the larger public sees it.

The truth is we don't know for sure how this all will play out if it were to happen.

This is what I am saying.  Your predicting who would be accomodated in ME3.  Your predicting how Bioware would look.  

You don't know how Bioware would look, and don't know how the larger gaming community would see it. 


This can be spinned in all different kinds of directions.

True but only a few people on this board are suggesting BW is accomdating homophobes I'll doubt that'll be the case with the toggle.

I personally can imagine a few of my friends going "wtf is this s***?" I don't know I feel that for some people it would be jarring.

And you're right neither of us knows how BioWare would look or how the larger gaming community would see it.

So I guess that's just my interpretation.

[Ziggy]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
This can be spinned in all different kinds of directions.

I don't really see how they can explain the inclusion of a toggle that makes it so there is no homosexuality in the game other than by saying they want to accommodate people who don't want homosexuality in the game.
It would certainly be more honest than simply not including any at all.
But you're right, I don't know. Maybe they could get away with it if they were brutally honest about it like that. Though that in itself would be making quite a statement. I don't think bioware would want to risk it. But who knows.

Modifié par Em23, 03 mai 2010 - 02:12 .

[Ryzaki]

gmartin40 wrote...

Only FemShep should be gay/bisexual. It would be wrong to make Male Shep gay/bisexual.

why? Like seriously what's so wrong with SOMEONE ELSE'S shep who has nothing to do with yours being gay or bisexual?

Or do you lack the mental ability to ignore the option? 

Would you be fine with the colored text?

With the toggle? 

[Siansonea]

Ryzaki, he's baiting you.

[Ryzaki]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ryzaki, he's baiting you.

I know I'm just so irritated right now.

And this stupid buzzing in my head isn't helping matters.

[Siansonea]

slimgrin wrote...

gmartin40 wrote...

Only FemShep should be gay/bisexual. It would be wrong to make Male Shep gay/bisexual.

Lol. Every straight man's dream, right?

*fistbump*

[Ryzaki]

slimgrin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ryzaki, he's baiting you.

I know I'm just so irritated right now.

And this stupid buzzing in my head isn't helping matters.

Buzzing? Do tell. Nothing to do with starving yourself, of course. 

Actually, Martin brings up a semi-valid point. Same sex relationships may never spread to men in this game. Is that considered unfair, just fanservice?

/shrug Its been there for about 2 weeks so probably.

Fanservice and unfair. (Probably depends on who you ask. I personally think its both but that's just me).

[Syledir]

Ryzaki wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ryzaki, he's baiting you.

I know I'm just so irritated right now.

And this stupid buzzing in my head isn't helping matters.

Buzzing? Do tell. Nothing to do with starving yourself, of course. 

Actually, Martin brings up a semi-valid point. Same sex relationships may never spread to men in this game. Is that considered unfair, just fanservice?

/shrug Its been there for about 2 weeks so probably.

Fanservice and unfair. (Probably depends on who you ask. I personally think its both but that's just me).

I believe it's just unfair. As for the fanservice... well i doubt that the majority of the male players would complain about a f/f love scene. I would even go so far and say: It would sell even better.

[Siansonea]

Well, given that there are very few actual facts available from BioWare about the reasoning behind their current stance, and any related information, I think I'm going to leave this thread, at least until there's something new to talk about. And no, I don't consider Ray Muzyka's and Casey Hudson's interview 'answers' to be anything other than Marketing Spin Control Doubletalk.



For the record, I would like to say before I go that I support inclusion of same-sex content, and support reasonable initiatives that attempt to make it more acceptable to those who are against the inclusion of the content. The game should be fun for everyone.

[Ryzaki]

Siansonea II wrote...

Well, given that there are very few actual facts available from BioWare about the reasoning behind their current stance, and any related information, I think I'm going to leave this thread, at least until there's something new to talk about. And no, I don't consider Ray Muzyka's and Casey Hudson's interview 'answers' to be anything other than Marketing Spin Control Doubletalk.

That's kind of harsh don't ya think?

For the record, I would like to say before I go that I support inclusion of same-sex content, and support reasonable initiatives that attempt to make it more acceptable to those who are against the inclusion of the content. The game should be fun for everyone.

Me too.

[KalosCast]

I honestly wouldn't care either way if there's same-sex romantic options or not (as far as I'm concerned, the ME1 were the only LIs handled well. Thane wasn't bad either). I just feel that if Bioware does choose to implement any same-sex love interest, it should be handled tastefully as naturally as the previous LIs.