7455 réponses à ce sujet

[MagicalSarai]

I support this thread 100%.



I've always felt that Bioware supported the ability to choose character paths... and I felt that the lack of any sort of gay/lesbian romance option was a bit of a cop-out. I think these are some fairly decent suggestions and Bioware could easily take one of them and even make money off of it (if they were to make it charged DLC... which I would gladly/sadly pay for).

[uzivatel]

I am NOT going to read the previous 25 pages (the first post is long enough), just my opinion on the topic name though ... okay, but not male Shepard. We are talking about trilogy here and it would be strange to do some major changes after two games.
I think BioWare should consider having some same sex relation in ME universe in some way (relations between crew members or important NPCs? main character of spin-off game?), but I dont see male Shepard suddenly realizing "oh, wait, I was gay all this time".

As for female Shepard. Well, she was given more freedom since she is not on the box art, but even she is pretty much defined by now - she likes men, no matter what the species (seriously, BioWare? fanservice much?), she seems to like Asari (then again every know sentient species in ME universe seems to like Asari) and thats all there is (as far as "meaningful" relations go anyway).
I do admit my femshep would soo go after Ashley ... but she did not, end of story.

[Wittand25]

uzivatel wrote...

I am NOT going to read the previous 25 pages (the first post is long enough), just my opinion on the topic name though ... okay, but not male Shepard. We are talking about trilogy here and it would be strange to do some major changes after two games.
I think BioWare should consider having some same sex relation in ME universe in some way (relations between crew members or important NPCs? main character of spin-off game?), but I dont see male Shepard suddenly realizing "oh, wait, I was gay all this time".

As for female Shepard. Well, she was given more freedom since she is not on the box art, but even she is pretty much defined by now - she likes men, no matter what the species (seriously, BioWare? fanservice much?), she seems to like Asari (then again every know sentient species in ME universe seems to like Asari) and thats all there is (as far as "meaningful" relations go anyway).
I do admit my femshep would soo go after Ashley ... but she did not, end of story.

One of my Shepards is gay since ME1. He never engaded in an relationship with Ashly, Liara or the other females did not sleep with the consort and told Kelly to act like a profesional, so for him the only thing a gay option would change is that he could finally stop taking cold showers every day.

[FKA_Servo]

Kudos for at least reading the FAQ!

The problem here is that box art Shepard is irrelevant - and I would hazard a guess that he is not most players' Shepard. 

FemShep and MShep are the same character, with all the same character defining options available except one - FShep can identify as homosexual, assuming that the player chooses to, and MShep cannot. That's strange.

Further, there is recorded dialog by Meer (not modded) that confirms that this was developed, at least partially, in both games.

Modifié par TommyServo, 26 février 2010 - 04:53 .

[cutthecameras]

TommyServo wrote...


The problem here is that box art Shepard is irrelevant - I would hazard a guess that he is not most players' Shepard.

To further support this I recall seeing a thread not too long ago asking who had actually played the game as the default John Shepard. The people that had were definitely in the minority.

[SimonTheFrog]

Totally support this thread and OP, which is very well done.



Sofar, the thread is very civil and i think the concept worked. Good job everyone.

[MagicalSarai]

cutthecameras wrote...

TommyServo wrote...


The problem here is that box art Shepard is irrelevant - I would hazard a guess that he is not most players' Shepard.

To further support this I recall seeing a thread not too long ago asking who had actually played the game as the default John Shepard. The people that had were definitely in the minority.

I have a friend who played as the box art "generic" shepard and the only reason he does that is because he cannot be bothered to actually do something to customize his character. He hated all the stat menus and the inventory system of ME... and so something else in the character creation genre already made him irritated. I had to beg him to play the game, but now he love it... but is greatful for simplified character menus in ME2.

Me? I prefer to go as indepth as possible and I never play anything close to the cover art shepard. Heck I try to get as far away from the generic female shepard as I can. So I really don't feel as though my character should have to adhere to any sort of predetermined traits.

[FataliTensei]

Lol I have never played John Shepard, all my Sheps have been customized till they don't even look like him

[uzivatel]

TommyServo wrote...

The problem here is that box art Shepard is irrelevant - and I would hazard a guess that he is not most players' Shepard.

Maybe not here on this forum, but I bet he is the most played one. There are many people out there who do one playthrough with the default Shepard.
Without the codes it was almost impossible to create good looking male Shepard and the codes are community-only stuff.

FemShep and MShep are the same character, with all the same character defining options available except one - FShep can identify as homosexual, assuming that the player chooses to, and MShep cannot. That's strange.

Its only there because someone needs to feed the fish.
You do have point there, but I am not sure we can really count that one ... the game sure does not.

Further, there is recorded dialog by Meer (not modded) that confirms that this was developed, at least partially, in both games.

Yes, and the same goes for Ashley and female Shepard. But the content did not make it to the final game (which is shame because Jennifer Hale did the dialogue way better).

Wittand25 wrote...

One of my Shepards is gay since ME1. He never engaded in an relationship with Ashly, Liara or the other females did not sleep with the consort and told Kelly to act like a professional, so for him the only thing a gay option would change is that he could finally stop taking cold showers every day.

He may as well be married. 

Modifié par uzivatel, 26 février 2010 - 05:17 .

[FKA_Servo]

uzivatel wrote...
Its only there because someone needs to feed the fish. You do have point there, but I am not sure we can really count that one ... the game sure does not.

I'm not talking about Kelly, or ME2 specifically, although evidence in there certainly supports me.  I'm referring to the character of Shepard, in both games.  She can assert her sexuality in the first game with Liara, and can continue it into ME2 and beyond.  Through her dialog and choices, she is unambiguously gay.  That she can express sexual or romantic interest in Kelly, Samara and Morinth, while MShep can never express interest in a member of the same sex just further supports the argument.

Also...

Maybe not here on this forum, but I bet he is the most played one.
There are many people out there who do one playthrough with the default
Shepard.
Without the codes it was almost impossible to create good looking male Shepard and the codes are community-only stuff.

Do you really think the people who pop in the game and burn through it as John Shepard would care about the inclusion of this stuff either way?  They've already traded their copy in and moved on, and I guarantee they don't frequent the forums.  They wouldn't even notice!

Modifié par TommyServo, 26 février 2010 - 05:30 .

[jlb524]

BW has a marketing Shepard and this version is a white male, straight (and a womanizer), Earthborn/Sole Survivor and a Renegade. He's their poster-boy and they can do what they want with him.

However, they also give players an opportunity to customize [i]their[\\i] own Shepard and this Shepard can deviate rather significantly from the default marketing one.

My Shepard is nothing like the marketing one. She's female for starters, lesbian, of Asian decent, she's a Colonist and a Paragon.

If people want to play as the default straight white male Shepard then be my guest. Most people choose to customize their Shepards, however. Some roleplay their male Shepards gay and I think it's only fair to finally give them an option to affirm their sexuality in game with a romance.

Modifié par jlb524, 26 février 2010 - 05:34 .

[tyddrwsau]

Wittand25 wrote...
No I think your first idea that most people see him as subconscionly as human in the game is true (but there are always some peaple with strange tastes). But if humankind ever makes contact with turianlike aliens I am 100% certain that the number of those willing to engage in an intimate relationship with an alian would be way smaller than the number of homosexuals.

This is one of the interesting things about science fiction. The genre presents the possibility of spacefaring humans interacting with radically different lifeforms, each of which has evolved their own traits and culture and technology in a completely different environment. Nonetheless, it's still fiction written by us humans. Science fiction is often written deliberately to explore our own cultural and ethical circumstances, using these fictional beings as the lens of the "other."

We, the audience, do relate to the humanoid aliens more as though they are human with some funky apparel and quirks. Because their creators have made them "more like us" in many ways, it's easy to jump past the part of these creations that defines their "otherness" to focus on the "sameness" even in some wacky ways. (Another ongoing thread on this forum is dedicated to the idea of Shepard and Tali having biological children together. The debate in that thread ranges from arguments that it would be cool or that anything is possible in fiction to detailed explorations of biochemistry and the scientific impossibility of the idea.)

The set-up for the science fiction makes a big difference. In Star Trek almost all sapient life are humanoid mammals biologically compatible with each other. Cultural variance is really minimal and our own gender assumptions hold true throughout the galaxy. (Vulcan women and men are equally aloof and rational, but the women wear dresses.) Mass Effect is a little more diverse. We don't really see much of the fictional cultures of the galaxy (most alien species' females aren't even modeled) but effort was made to define their difference. Only Asari reproduce with other races, and that's through funky telempathic gene randomization. Turians and Quarians evolved as dextro-amino acid dominant biospheres. Salarians spawn through eggs that only need fertilization to produce females. The more humanoid the alien is, the more likely it is to trigger fans' resistance to treating these aliens or romances with them as in any way different from human heterosexuality.

I imagine that wouldn't be true with a Hanar, since they're not at all humanoid. I imagine it would be less true with Elcor, since they're perceived as quadrupeds (or high gravity gorilla analogues) and they don't have obviously humanoid mouths. Although the Volus are supposed to require an ammonia atmosphere and high pressure to survive, I suspect most folk would still treat them as "just like human women and men, only pygmies." 

It's a pity BioWare didn't make the Asari look exactly like they do, but with voices like Barry White. If they model Turian women as larger than the men, and appropriately without mammaries, I wonder if fans will still argue that romancing one would be just like falling in love with an exotic human woman.

I think that a love story between physically incompatible aliens has great potential as a story of "love conquers all." I think it's equally powerful if a male or female Shepard falls in love with Garrus, for that reason. But these issues are also why I'm ultimately more in favor of same-sex romance with a human character.

[FataliTensei]

jlb524 wrote...

BW has a marketing Shepard and this version is a white male, straight (and a womanizer), Earthborn/Sole Survivor and a Renegade. He's their poster-boy and they can do what they want with him.

However, they also give players an opportunity to customize [i]their[\\\\i] own Shepard and this Shepard can deviate rather significantly from the default marketing one.

My Shepard is nothing like the marketing one. She's female for starters, lesbian, of Asian decent, she's a Colonist and a Paragon.

If people want to play as the default straight white male Shepard then be my guest. Most people choose to customize their Shepards, however. Some roleplay their male Shepards gay and I think it's only fair to finally give them an option to affirm their sexuality in game with a romance.

ya now when it comes down to it, poster-boy shep isn't really that likable

[FKA_Servo]

FataliTensei wrote...

ya now when it comes down to it, poster-boy shep isn't really that likable

Troof.

[Laterali]

I would not take part in it, since I am straight and have no desire to role play as homosexual. But I respect the rights of the homosexual community on this forum, and in all civil means, and believe they should have the opportunity to play the game as they desire.



I think the explanation given for there not being a same sex romance option, because of a predefined character, is ludicrous and has no relevance to a game where they tout your ability to create your own character.



Living in the U.S. where we boast of equal opportunity and civil rights for all, we are severely hypocritical when it comes to homosexual rights, which I think says a lot of our country, and which I am ashamed of this so called "Land of the Free".



This being a video game, it is a relatively minor issue compared to what's wrong with the modern world, but that just means that it is easily fixed by implementing a same sex romance.

[jlb524]

FataliTensei wrote...

ya now when it comes down to it, poster-boy shep isn't really that likable

Agreed.  Some people like him, but he has a lot of haters (I'm one of them :innocent:).  That's why I'm glad I can customize my Shepard to be more suitable to my likings.
 
Poster-boy Shepard is a douche.  He's a womanizer, he likes to spew off the Renegade one-liners, he punches reporters, and he looks like a model.  I guess that's supposed to appeal to the masses as he is used as the face of ME?

[uzivatel]

TommyServo wrote...

I'm not talking about Kelly, or ME2 specifically, although evidence in there certainly supports me.  I'm referring to the character of Shepard, in both games.  She can assert her sexuality in the first game with Liara, and can continue it into ME2 and beyond.  Through her dialog and choices, she is unambiguously gay.  That she can express sexual or romantic interest in Kelly, Samara and Morinth, while MShep can never express interest in a member of the same sex just further supports the argument.

The Samara "romance" is probably the best one in both Mass Effect games.
Anyway, Asari + female is officially not considered lesbian (I may disagree but thats the canon).

Do you really think the people who pop in the game and burn through it as John Shepard would care about the inclusion of this stuff either way?  They've already traded their copy in and moved on, and I guarantee they don't frequent the forums.  They wouldn't even notice!

Just imagine some of them if their bromance took a wrong turn... 

Modifié par uzivatel, 26 février 2010 - 05:59 .

[FataliTensei]

jlb524 wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

ya now when it comes down to it, poster-boy shep isn't really that likable

Agreed.  Some people like him, but he has a lot of haters (I'm one of them :innocent:).  That's why I'm glad I can customize my Shepard to be more suitable to my likings.
 
Poster-boy Shepard is a douche.  He's a womanizer, he likes to spew off the Renegade one-liners, he punches reporters, and he looks like a model.  I guess that's supposed to appeal to the masses as he is used as the face of ME?

I know, I guess they wanted a "Badass" character, but uhhh, they just mae a douche

[FKA_Servo]

uzivatel wrote...

Anyway, Asari + female is officially not considered lesbian (I may disagree but thats the canon).

This is them being obtuse.

If you really want to go there though - that's fine.  Asari/FemShep is not, strictly speaking, a "lesbian relationship" because Liara is not human.  However, asari conform to pretty much every attractive human female standard, physically and psychologically.  For a female human to be sexually or romantically attracted to them, she would in all likelihood identify as either bisexual or as a lesbian.  And FemShep, if you pursue that option, does identify as a lesbian.

Remember, this is as much about Shepard's character as it is about available romantic interests.

Edit:  for compehensiveness.

Modifié par TommyServo, 26 février 2010 - 06:14 .

[jlb524]

uzivatel wrote...

Anyway, Asari + female is officially not considered lesbian (I may disagree but thats the canon).

It doesn't matter what the female human/asari relationship is officially called by BW.  A FemShep that engages in it is either a lesbian or a bisexual (or bicurious).  She's not 100% straight.

[Wittand25]

uzivatel wrote...
Just imagine some of them if their bromance took a wrong turn... 

Thats why we as a group are ok with  the m/m romance beeing a little harder to find than the m/f one like in JE, it was impossible to just stumble acros the male/Sky romance there unless you roleplayed a misogynic bastard.

[FKA_Servo]

Wittand25 wrote...

Thats why we as a group are ok with  the m/m romance beeing a little harder to find than the m/f one like in JE, it was impossible to just stumble acros the male/Sky romance there unless you roleplayed a misogynic bastard.

I personally don't think these should be a secret  if they're implemented.

The colored font indicating dialog options that initiate a romance, regardless of orientation, is the best idea.  So that way, if your "John" Shep sees that pop up while talking to, say, Thane, and you don't want to see that, you can just merrily skip right over it.

Modifié par TommyServo, 26 février 2010 - 06:29 .

[uzivatel]

Wittand25 wrote...

uzivatel wrote...
Just imagine some of them if their bromance took a wrong turn... 

Thats why we as a group are ok with  the m/m romance beeing a little harder to find than the m/f one like in JE, it was impossible to just stumble acros the male/Sky romance there unless you roleplayed a misogynic bastard.

You are no fun...

[Wittand25]

uzivatel wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

uzivatel wrote...
Just imagine some of them if their bromance took a wrong turn... 

Thats why we as a group are ok with  the m/m romance beeing a little harder to find than the m/f one like in JE, it was impossible to just stumble acros the male/Sky romance there unless you roleplayed a misogynic bastard.

You are no fun...

What should I say ?
Seeing this kind of thread die from severe troll infection left me a bitter, humorless man.

[Jimmy Fury]

tyddrwsau wrote...
It's a pity BioWare didn't make the Asari look exactly like they do, but with voices like Barry White. If they model Turian women as larger than the men, and appropriately without mammaries, I wonder if fans will still argue that romancing one would be just like falling in love with an exotic human woman.

That's a really good point and one I mentioned in another thread about seeing female aliens in ME3.
The vast majority of aliens aren't mammals. Drell and Krogan are reptilian, Turians are Avian, and the ME wiki describes Salarians as amphibians.
This means that none of their females would have breasts. If one checks the ME wiki there is concept art of a Turian without armor {no, nothing dirty) and there really isn't any place for breasts given the structure of their exoskeleton.
So for all intents and purposes none of them would look at a human female and equate her with females of their own species. In Thane's case male Shepard, particularly Sheploo, would probably look more like a Drell female than fem.Shep would as Drell wouldn't have breasts or long hair.

(the wiki page on Asari also suggests that the Bachelor party conversation demonstrates that different species focus on different qualities of the asari in order to suggest they look like females of their own species. Body shape for humans, skin tone for Salarians, and head-fringe for Turians.)

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 26 février 2010 - 06:58 .