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[FataliTensei]

Ryzaki wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Huojin wrote...
Except that apparently homosexual, childfree couples/people will have the most disposable income and therefore it should certainly be a market you should tap into.  And it's also not just a homosexual market that wants it AND it doesn't HAVE to be part of your gameplay.  

So their marketing research is stupid.

I'm always a little uncomfortable when someone who doesn't have any actual knowledge says that some expert's judgment is "stupid." The ME demographic seems to include a fair number of teenage boys, who tend to be awfully insecure about sexuality. Maybe Bio's right that gay male content would hurt the game.

The weird thing is that it looks like Bio keeps starting to develop the content and then pulls back before release.

Oh well. I guess the gaming market is going to go the way of the Hollywood market. Overly priced and ridculous expensive blockbusters aimed at teenage males instead of females. The majority will follow along.

At least we'll probably have artisits willing to broaded the genre by not catering to that group this game just happens not to be one of them.

Its a loss but its not a huge loss. Or maybe I've just stopped caring.

Back to JRPGs for me.

Same here, the whole handling of ME2 really shows me how much influence the shooter demographic has.

[FataliTensei]

double post

Modifié par FataliTensei, 03 mai 2010 - 10:52 .

[Syledir]

Huojin wrote...

A bunch of people wrote...

Actually, Martin brings up a semi-valid point. Same sex relationships may never spread to men in this game. Is that considered unfair, just fanservice?
...

Fanservice and unfair. (Probably depends on who you ask. I personally think its both but that's just me).
...
I believe it's just unfair. As for the fanservice... well i doubt that the majority of the male players would complain about a f/f love scene. I would even go so far and say: It would sell even better.

Of course it's both.

All over the Media industry you have white straight men dominating, broadcasting f/f (usually insultingly badly done; obviously only done for wet dreams of aforementioned males) relationships and kissing without anyone batting an eyelash (at least here). You get two guys together and suddenly everyone has messed their pants. And by "everyone" I mean a few hysterics (really, furore about Media-portrayed same sex relationships is pretty low in the UK these days and generally down to fundies rather than... people who just want to get on with their lives and ignore people who aren't harming anyone else ¬¬).

And yeah, it's just unfair; you're excluding a fair amount of the fanbase this way///denying them the full possibilities of the game.    If a LI is going to be included, why not include it for everyone? Why ignore any percentage of the fanbase?

  I'm a pansexual genderqueer/biological female (leaning towards male end of things)... I always RP male characters unless there's a specific plot line I want to go down, and I always RP homosexual relationships (Fable 2, Dragon Age, ME1 [in my DREAMS] and yes, even Sims XD) - both m/m and f/f - unless I need an achievement. And yes, 'need' is an appropriate word   

So uh yeah... I'm not getting everything I could from my ME1 PT.  I enjoy the LI part of the game, and I prefer to play a straight MAN if it's forced that way, but the straight female path is just so dull for me. I may not identify with either (straight/female) NOW, but I *have* lived most of my life that way; my personal playing preferences mean I just don't get anything out of a straight female PT. I don't identify with it, I don't enjoy it, and  I only did it in DA:O to be queen 

You're also ignoring yaoi fangirls who like RPGs//women who like slash. They'll buy it for gay.  And there's nothing wrong with that; men can get off on lezzybeans, why can't women get their boylove? 

You can make your Shep look pretty much the way you want (You can make the women look a little trans, at least, covering the trans. preference). You can pick the class, background, appearance, race (Yes I have a badass Asian Shep)  personality etc. why not sexuality? If it really bothers people to have a same-gender pixel character come on to them, and to be able to turn them down with no butt-touching or negative consequences, why not flag the sexuality at the start and then it won't come up ever again? 

You can choose whether to pursue the LI storyline or not, as far as I understand it (Maybe I am playing wrong D:). Technically, this also covers the asexual preference - you're not forced to pursue a LI, and you CAN reject people (can't you!?)

I also don't understand this thing people have with it not being what the majority wants : heterosexual is still - as far as I know - the most 'usual' sexual preference. Other sexualities are always going to be in the minority; this doesn't mean you should just ignore them.  It's like saying X is an ethnic minority, therefore they won't be included.  Childfree homosexual couples have more disposable income than heteros anyway... if I was running a company, I'd work to accomodate them to get some of that lovely free money   It's a fair enough % of the fanbase that wants it, and it's NOT limited to homosexual players so...what?

 If you put a gay man in, is he going to automatically subject your Male!Shep to buttrape? Err... no.  Is a female LI going to just grab your boobs inappropriately ? I
sure hope not. 
As has been said: nobody loses anything with this as an addition, it only enriches the experience for the rest of us. Why is that wrong?  Wherein lies the problem? Regardless of your playing
preferences, any argument against this whole idea is incredibly
illogical. 

DaeJi wrote

No, most of us would like the former bisexual squadmates to be reimplemented, this includes, Tali, Thane, Jack and Kaidan.

GTFO. Thane was bi?  I knew about Kaidan & Tali (IDC about Jack) but Thane? Man... high levels of sadness.   I agree that it would be weird to just have DLC that suddenly brings that up but uh... Thane just amazing and I'm not sure I'd care that much (gods, I'm so shallow. I apologise).

First of all, I'd like to apologize. My English is not so good. That, coupled with the fact that I was so tired yesterday, that I didn't realize half of what I was writing, didn't help either. Reading my post today... well it doesn't make sense to me either.

I just read the word "fanservice" and instantly thought about my brother (9 years younger than me, married with his x-box 360 and has a hot affair with his left hand and the pron collection). He told me that if Bioware would really want to sell their DLC, they should make a Miranda shower scene. I happen to agree with him. Then he suggested a hot lesbian love scene. Obviously Kelly was not enough of a fanservice. Again I agreed with him. Why? I think that Bioware believes that their target group are people like my brother. Teenager, male, sexually insecure, blablabla. But of course I can be mistaken. I know its a little offtopic, but like I said. I was very tired. I promise it won't happen again.

[Ryzaki]

I'd lol if a game had a m/m romance and doing it unlocked the achievement. I'd ****** myself laughing at all the achievement homophobes going: "I had no choice! I wanted the achievement!"

[Syledir]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd lol if a game had a m/m romance and doing it unlocked the achievement. I'd ****** myself laughing at all the achievement homophobes going: "I had no choice! I wanted the achievement!"

Now, THAT is a good idea.  And make it worth 200 gamerscores. Let's see how long they can resist.

[Huojin]

Syledir wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd lol if
a game had a m/m romance and doing it unlocked the achievement. I'd
****** myself laughing at all the achievement homophobes going: "I had no
choice! I wanted the achievement!"

Now, THAT is a good idea. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png And make it worth 200 gamerscores. Let's see how long they can resist.

Make that 400 And it can unlock a pretty little lezzybean profile pic for their troubles.

AlanC9 wrote...
I'm always a little uncomfortable when someone who doesn't have any actual knowledge says that some expert's judgment is "stupid." The ME demographic seems to include a fair number of teenage boys, who tend to be awfully insecure about sexuality. Maybe Bio's right that gay male content would hurt the game.

Humm... I could have "actual" knowledge, that's not really for you to say either way.  The problem is that the entire gaming world encompasses a "fair number" of teenage boys; that doesn't mean they should ignore teenage girls, female gamers or adult men with a mental age above 12.

In fact they should work harder to include these groups because then the rest of us could enjoy online gaming in peace without being taunted, threatened or hit on.

Also, there is a LOT of gay stuff for series that are "for teenage boys"; Star Trek, Star War, Transformers (I DON'T KNOW HOW EITHER), Assassin's Creed, Gears of War, Half Life, Army of Two (although I did think they were a couple at one point o_O), Left 4 Dead, Mass Effect (haha too bad, BW, it does exist)... do you know how many times I've seen Maric kiss Loghain!?  More than I want to, that's how many...!

BioWare, you has market. 

Logically, it is nonsense to remove an optional part of the game in order to appease one area of your market, when there is a desire for it in others.

If it was FORCED gay then yeah, it'd make sense. But it's not: It's optional.  Nobody needs to see it. I wasn't FORCED to watch those godawful sex scenes in Dragon Age, but I WAS forced to romance Alistair for the cheevo points.

The weird thing is that it looks like Bio keeps starting to develop the content and then pulls back before release.

You see this? This is what annoys me about this whole stupid saga; the devs/writers were going to include 'us', but someone at board level evidently decided that the LGBT group were just too dirty to be seen by everyone else and cut it out.

Oh no wait, except experimentally bisexual women.  That's HAWT.

F!Shep can get her groove on with women (but not fall in love). M!Shep cannot do so with men -- double-standards, much? A typical straight male attitude, of course, but that doesn't make it more acceptable.   Don't get me wrong, I do NOT want to see any guy gyrating his hips anywhere for any gender; my point is about double standards... XD

It's discrimination (in terms of gender and sexuality).  I'm not claiming it's the WORST THING EVAR but it's still unfair and only serves to perpetuate discrimination in society (sorry, but when you bow to *any* kind of discrimination, you're only aiding it); oversight is one thing, actively choosing to exclude us is another. 

That, and the fact that somehow poison alien sex is more acceptable than homosexual human love.  Not that I disapprove of aforementioned poison alien sex of course .....

Syledir, I hope you didn't think I was being hostile or anything    I'm generally in a good mood when I am here, but the way I write makes people think I'm being rude >_<

And uh yeah. The entire tone of this post was NOT meant to be a huge middle finger to anyone either... just in case it sounds that way ;;

Modifié par Huojin, 04 mai 2010 - 09:30 .

[Fairhammer]

I approve for same sex.
I mean, what is so bad about it?
(Also need FemShep x Tali )
Approval to this, it just give us more idividualitiy!
As early mentioned, it is NOT!!!!! NICHT,нет,NON, 别 ［別］, forced!
*rolleyes*
The suggestions to put it in the games are good to, so why not?

Modifié par Fairhammer, 04 mai 2010 - 10:52 .

[ElitePinecone]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd lol if
a game had a m/m romance and doing it unlocked the achievement. I'd
****** myself laughing at all the achievement homophobes going: "I had no
choice! I wanted the achievement!"

This would be... epic. 

Huojin wrote...

BioWare, you has market. 

I'm not sure if the lolcats reference was intentional, but I agree. People underestimate the immaturity of the gaming market all the time. Bioware knows it has a relatively stable bloc of mature gamers (I don't mean just adults) on hand to buy its games - we've been doing so for years. Why the sudden reticence? 

[The Uncanny]

Siansonea II wrote...

*Extensive snip*

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the world is NOT a fair place, people are NOT fair, and life is NOT fair. The sooner you accept that, and deal with the world the way it actually is, the better off we'll all be.

I'm sorry - I know I'm late to the party here - but that has to be just about the scariest thing I've heard anyone say in ages.

'Fairness' is far too ambiguous a term to quantify... but the idea that striving to attain some measure of it should cease is utterly horrifying. We should all simply accept the status quo and drag ourselves through life like zombies? How would any social change have ever been achieved if that one person hadn't jumped to their feet yelling, "Hey! Wait a minute! That isn't fair!"?

[LiquidGrape]

I know I'm a bit late to join the party, but browsing back I couldn't help but notice how the topic briefly touched upon homeopathy.
Can't help but let Tim Minchin speak for me on that particular subject.

On-topic; the world is totally fair as long as well bend over in unison.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 04 mai 2010 - 02:18 .

[Tirigon]

Huojin wrote...

Syledir wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd lol if
a game had a m/m romance and doing it unlocked the achievement. I'd
****** myself laughing at all the achievement homophobes going: "I had no
choice! I wanted the achievement!"

Now, THAT is a good idea. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png And make it worth 200 gamerscores. Let's see how long they can resist.

Make that 400 And it can unlock a pretty little lezzybean profile pic for their troubles.

Signed. Besides I want the Pic:wub:

LiquidGrape wrote...

I know I'm a bit late to join the
party, but browsing back I couldn't help but notice how the topic
briefly touched upon homeopathy.
Can't help but let Tim Minchin
speak for me on that particular subject.

On-topic; the world
is totally fair as long as well bend over in unison.

"Do we still believe that Michael Jackson didn´t have facelifts?!"

That part - and some others - really made me laugh:D:D:D:D.

A nice poem / song or whatever it´s called. I don´t agree with everything he says because I´ve seen scientific proof for homoeopathic medicine and some other "alternative" medicine, but still funny. thx for the link.

[Matterialize]

There's no logical reason for it to be left out. I haven't been following this thread, but for it to survive for so long (and the previous threads), it seems as if some people are afraid that their Shepards are going to catch the gay if this optional content was ever added to the game, which is silly.

[Tirigon]

Matterialize wrote...

There's no logical reason for it to be left out. I haven't been following this thread, but for it to survive for so long (and the previous threads), it seems as if some people are afraid that their Shepards are going to catch the gay if this optional content was ever added to the game, which is silly.

And how exactly can you "catch the gay"?

Homosexuality is not an ilness and you can´t "get infected" with it....

[Wittand25]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd lol if a game had a m/m romance and doing it unlocked the achievement. I'd ****** myself laughing at all the achievement homophobes going: "I had no choice! I wanted the achievement!"

Did not the game Bully have an "over the rainbow" achievment for kissing a lot of other boys ?

[smecky-kitteh]

The Uncanny wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

*Extensive snip*

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the world is NOT a fair place, people are NOT fair, and life is NOT fair. The sooner you accept that, and deal with the world the way it actually is, the better off we'll all be.

I'm sorry - I know I'm late to the party here - but that has to be just about the scariest thing I've heard anyone say in ages.

'Fairness' is far too ambiguous a term to quantify... but the idea that striving to attain some measure of it should cease is utterly horrifying. We should all simply accept the status quo and drag ourselves through life like zombies? How would any social change have ever been achieved if that one person hadn't jumped to their feet yelling, "Hey! Wait a minute! That isn't fair!"?

this^
i think im going to read that to myself every morining.

[Thomas Andresen]

Tirigon wrote...

Matterialize wrote...

There's no logical reason for it to be left out. I haven't been following this thread, but for it to survive for so long (and the previous threads), it seems as if some people are afraid that their Shepards are going to catch the gay if this optional content was ever added to the game, which is silly.

And how exactly can you "catch the gay"?

Homosexuality is not an ilness and you can´t "get infected" with it....

I think his expression was more a figure of speech to poke at the ones being "******-phobic", rather than him having such a view on it, himself.

As for why BioWare's left it out, I seem to recall some rep saying something like "it wouldn't fit the character we've built", but don't quote me on it. Furthermore, I remember Greg or Ray(I think it was one of them, but I'm not sure who) talking about player characters in games like Mass Effect, and games like Dragon Age, it was some months ago, and I don't remember where, so I can't provide a link. In games like Dragon Age, the story, and by an extension, the player character, is told from a first person perspective, the player character's personality traits and quirks, as well as the way the character solves the problems he/she encounters, are solely for the player to decide. And then there's games like the Mass Effect games, where the story plays out in a 3rd person perspective, the player character is already preset by the writes to a limited amount of personalities, the player is given some freedom, but the ultimate design of the character is up the writers.

Both approaches to storytelling is something the people at BioWare enjoys, and they will continue to develop stories using both sets.

As I said, I don't even remember word for word, and certainly not where I read this, and I think the article covered other concerns as well. Fans heated discussions about gay  relationships in ME games was one of the reasons he posted the article, I believe.

BioWare already have put gay relationships(m/m) in two of their games, Jade Empire and Dragon Age, proving that it's not something they are adverse to. 

[Scottish Gwailo]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Matterialize wrote...

There's no logical reason for it to be left out. I haven't been following this thread, but for it to survive for so long (and the previous threads), it seems as if some people are afraid that their Shepards are going to catch the gay if this optional content was ever added to the game, which is silly.

And how exactly can you "catch the gay"?

Homosexuality is not an ilness and you can´t "get infected" with it....

I think his expression was more a figure of speech to poke at the ones being "******-phobic", rather than him having such a view on it, himself.

As for why BioWare's left it out, I seem to recall some rep saying something like "it wouldn't fit the character we've built", but don't quote me on it. Furthermore, I remember Greg or Ray(I think it was one of them, but I'm not sure who) talking about player characters in games like Mass Effect, and games like Dragon Age, it was some months ago, and I don't remember where, so I can't provide a link. In games like Dragon Age, the story, and by an extension, the player character, is told from a first person perspective, the player character's personality traits and quirks, as well as the way the character solves the problems he/she encounters, are solely for the player to decide. And then there's games like the Mass Effect games, where the story plays out in a 3rd person perspective, the player character is already preset by the writes to a limited amount of personalities, the player is given some freedom, but the ultimate design of the character is up the writers.

Both approaches to storytelling is something the people at BioWare enjoys, and they will continue to develop stories using both sets.

As I said, I don't even remember word for word, and certainly not where I read this, and I think the article covered other concerns as well. Fans heated discussions about gay  relationships in ME games was one of the reasons he posted the article, I believe.

BioWare already have put gay relationships(m/m) in two of their games, Jade Empire and Dragon Age, proving that it's not something they are adverse to. 

I can understand where they're coming from with that, but it does seem slightly odd that they limit the choices in this series in particular.  Of course it wouldn't "fit" the default Shepherd to be anything other than a rampant heterosexual.  Although I think having the option to pursue male, same-sex relationships could add an interesting little quirk to Shepherd's character.  I generally find the male Shepherd character to be a little on the vanilla side...

[Tirigon]

Scottish Gwailo wrote...

Of course it wouldn't "fit" the default Shepherd to be anything other than a rampant heterosexual.

That´s where I disagree. I dont see ANY justification why a war hero can´t be attracted to people of his own gender...

Except for old, stupid prejudices, of course - we all know that the Space Hero is ALWAYS a white, blonde, blue-eyed Womanizer, just look at Perry Rhodan - but these prejudices are exactly what we´re arguing against, are they not?

[Wittand25]

Thomas Andresen wrote...
I think his expression was more a figure of speech to poke at the ones being "******-phobic", rather than him having such a view on it, himself.

As for why BioWare's left it out, I seem to recall some rep saying something like "it wouldn't fit the character we've built", but don't quote me on it. Furthermore, I remember Greg or Ray(I think it was one of them, but I'm not sure who) talking about player characters in games like Mass Effect, and games like Dragon Age, it was some months ago, and I don't remember where, so I can't provide a link. In games like Dragon Age, the story, and by an extension, the player character, is told from a first person perspective, the player character's personality traits and quirks, as well as the way the character solves the problems he/she encounters, are solely for the player to decide. And then there's games like the Mass Effect games, where the story plays out in a 3rd person perspective, the player character is already preset by the writes to a limited amount of personalities, the player is given some freedom, but the ultimate design of the character is up the writers.

Both approaches to storytelling is something the people at BioWare enjoys, and they will continue to develop stories using both sets.

As I said, I don't even remember word for word, and certainly not where I read this, and I think the article covered other concerns as well. Fans heated discussions about gay  relationships in ME games was one of the reasons he posted the article, I believe.

BioWare already have put gay relationships(m/m) in two of their games, Jade Empire and Dragon Age, proving that it's not something they are adverse to. 

This is adressed in the first three posts on this very thread. We all have read that interview and come to the agrement that it was merly trying to dodge a question that he did not expect and had no good answer for.
Shepard beeing anymore predefined than the warden is actually silly considering that Shepard has:
no defined sex; no defined race; no defined appearance; no defined birtplace; no defined military history all these things get choosen by the player at the very start of ME1 or 2, additionally Shepard (if female does not even have a defined sexual orientation.

[Ryzaki]

Which makes it even more lulzy seeing as the Warden is more predefined than Shepard is.

[Tirigon]

Ryzaki wrote...

Which makes it even more lulzy seeing as the Warden is more predefined than Shepard is.

How so?

[Ryzaki]

Tirigon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Which makes it even more lulzy seeing as the Warden is more predefined than Shepard is.

How so?

The warden's origins. No matter what you do you can't change anything about your origin, you can't change what happens for the most part DURING said origin and you'll always be recruited by Duncan. You might change like 2 or 3 lines of dialogue and that's it.

[Tirigon]

Ryzaki wrote...

The warden's origins. No matter what you do you can't change anything about your origin, you can't change what happens for the most part DURING said origin and you'll always be recruited by Duncan. You might change like 2 or 3 lines of dialogue and that's it.

Well it´s like the background of Shep only that you play it.....




Anyways, look here: http://social.biowar...2507120#2507455

Kinda funny since BioWare claimed Shepard was predefined when explaining why he can´t be gay.

Seems a lousy excuse now.

[iamthespark]

How about having an option during character creation like a checkbox under "Sexuality" = gay, stragiht, bi; and then the universe will treat us as such, with perhaps special dialogue options and what not.

[Ryzaki]

Tirigon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The warden's origins. No matter what you do you can't change anything about your origin, you can't change what happens for the most part DURING said origin and you'll always be recruited by Duncan. You might change like 2 or 3 lines of dialogue and that's it.

Well it´s like the background of Shep only that you play it.....




Anyways, look here: http://social.biowar...2507120#2507455

Kinda funny since BioWare claimed Shepard was predefined when explaining why he can´t be gay.

Seems a lousy excuse now.

That's preciesely the point. Maybe the Warden isn't more predefined than Shepard but the Warden certainly isn't less by any great amount.