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[FataliTensei]

KalosCast wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

Ehh it's one of those "compromise" things we have to do

I'm pretty sure they would include bisexual as an option in that as well, that way people who don't want limited RP options can choose that and play through normally. Personally though I would choose the "gay" option just so every damn woman Shepard meets would stop flirting with him

I don't buy that. Everybody was fine with the lack of a toggle in previous Bioware escapades. I'd rather have them just not write one then for there to be a toggle because some people are too sexually insecure.

And it still shoot character continuity between the past to iterations to hell.

All in all I'd rather there not have to be a "toggle" as well

[iamthespark]

Toggle isn't the right word, that sounds like you can turn it on and off on a whim - a box at character creation would allow the world to treat you, the ones that know you're queer anyway, that way. I'm a lesbian and I think that's actually quite empowering and not a compromise.



Maybe everytime a male hits on her, Femshep can automatically respond by saying she's not interested or anything else that can make the universe different so you get a slightly different style/unique dialogue if you play, gay, straight or bisexual. That would also add some replay fun, no?

[FataliTensei]

iamthespark wrote...

Toggle isn't the right word, that sounds like you can turn it on and off on a whim - a box at character creation would allow the world to treat you, the ones that know you're queer anyway, that way. I'm a lesbian and I think that's actually quite empowering and not a compromise.

Maybe everytime a male hits on her, Femshep can automatically respond by saying she's not interested or anything else that can make the universe different so you get a slightly different style/unique dialogue if you play, gay, straight or bisexual. That would also add some replay fun, no?

I think you're right, it would be pretty cool if it was handled like that

[Syledir]

iamthespark wrote...

Toggle isn't the right word, that sounds like you can turn it on and off on a whim - a box at character creation would allow the world to treat you, the ones that know you're queer anyway, that way. I'm a lesbian and I think that's actually quite empowering and not a compromise.

Maybe everytime a male hits on her, Femshep can automatically respond by saying she's not interested or anything else that can make the universe different so you get a slightly different style/unique dialogue if you play, gay, straight or bisexual. That would also add some replay fun, no?

I thought the box for sexual preference would be needed to avoid scenes as such. For example, I don't have a problem with Zevran from DA:O but I've read that other people didn't like it that he showed an interest in them. The box (we throw the toggle out of the window, for time being) would make it possible for you to play the game and enjoy it without , for example homosexuall, NPCs show an interest in you. Sexually insecure or not.

[SorenTrigg]

A box at character creation *is* what we were talking about. And it is just a toggle in other words. It is a way to turn off content.

[Tirigon]

SorenTrigg wrote...

A box at character creation *is* what we were talking about. And it is just a toggle in other words. It is a way to turn off content.

And what´s wrong with that?

I mean, I want everyone to be bi because that´s what gives you the most freedom to play as you want - and because it seems to be the natural thing to me - so I would just not turn anything off.

But if there is a bunch of homophobes who rather miss parts of the game than risking to "get infected" with homosexuality, that´s their business.

I´d rather have a lousy compromise with idiots than nothing at all, to be honest.

[Siansonea]

Boy, this conversation would be a lot more productive if people could read and understand written text.

I just popped in to reiterate that my idea for the 'toggle', 'box', etc DOES NOT CHANGE NPC ATTITUDES OR ACTIONS IN ANY WAY. For instance, in this scenario, "Zevran" (whoever that is) would still hit on male Shepard. The only thing that would change is that Shepard's ability to respond would be governed by the choice made at character creation. It would only affect SHEPARD. Seriously, I think I've said this several times now. It's not 'turning off content'. NPCs wouldn't suddenly treat Shepard differently. They wouldn't know Shepard's preference necessarily. Someone like Aria T'Loak might, and she might tell Shepard to find a nice man/woman to relax with based on that knowledge, but there would be very few other instances where the NPC's dialogue is affected. All this idea would do is limit or expand Shepard's dialogue options based on the player's choice. Say you want to have a gay male character, but you still want to be nice to the female squad members. This option would also make it impossible for Shepard to accidentally start a romance with one of the women. Not seeing the downside myself.

But hey, BioWare is supposed to be an agent of social change, right? Forget society in general, if we could just establish parity in a video game, then all the world's ills will be cured, right?

Personally, I think this is a dead issue at this point. Neither side will budge an inch, so we'll just have to accept things the way they are and somehow manage to get through our lives.

[Wittand25]

Siansonea II wrote...

Boy, this conversation would be a lot more productive if people could read and understand written text.

I just popped in to reiterate that my idea for the 'toggle', 'box', etc DOES NOT CHANGE NPC ATTITUDES OR ACTIONS IN ANY WAY. For instance, in this scenario, "Zevran" (whoever that is) would still hit on male Shepard. The only thing that would change is that Shepard's ability to respond would be governed by the choice made at character creation. It would only affect SHEPARD. Seriously, I think I've said this several times now. It's not 'turning off content'. NPCs wouldn't suddenly treat Shepard differently. They wouldn't know Shepard's preference necessarily. Someone like Aria T'Loak might, and she might tell Shepard to find a nice man/woman to relax with based on that knowledge, but there would be very few other instances where the NPC's dialogue is affected. All this idea would do is limit or expand Shepard's dialogue options based on the player's choice. Say you want to have a gay male character, but you still want to be nice to the female squad members. This option would also make it impossible for Shepard to accidentally start a romance with one of the women. Not seeing the downside myself.

But hey, BioWare is supposed to be an agent of social change, right? Forget society in general, if we could just establish parity in a video game, then all the world's ills will be cured, right?

Personally, I think this is a dead issue at this point. Neither side will budge an inch, so we'll just have to accept things the way they are and somehow manage to get through our lives.

It would be much easier and have the same effect to just mark the romance dialog more clearly, either by using different colour or having [flirt] actually as option on the dialog wheel. The toggle in the options would just create possible coding problems and be a source for bugs.
I agree with you that the behavior and sexual preferances of the npcs should not be changeable through the options, but I am still hoping for an DLC for ME2 that makes one of each gender  available for both Shepards.

[Tirigon]

Siansonea II wrote...

Boy, this conversation would be a lot more productive if people could read and understand written text.

I just popped in to reiterate that my idea for the 'toggle', 'box', etc DOES NOT CHANGE NPC ATTITUDES OR ACTIONS IN ANY WAY. For instance, in this scenario, "Zevran" (whoever that is) would still hit on male Shepard. The only thing that would change is that Shepard's ability to respond would be governed by the choice made at character creation. It would only affect SHEPARD.

And THIS would SUCK LIKE HELL. To say it politely.


A toggle NEEDS to change the NPCs, or it will be completely pointless and only limit your freedom when playing.

[Siansonea]

Tirigon wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Boy, this conversation would be a lot more productive if people could read and understand written text.

I just popped in to reiterate that my idea for the 'toggle', 'box', etc DOES NOT CHANGE NPC ATTITUDES OR ACTIONS IN ANY WAY. For instance, in this scenario, "Zevran" (whoever that is) would still hit on male Shepard. The only thing that would change is that Shepard's ability to respond would be governed by the choice made at character creation. It would only affect SHEPARD.

And THIS would SUCK LIKE HELL. To say it politely.


A toggle NEEDS to change the NPCs, or it will be completely pointless and only limit your freedom when playing.

Tell me what you really think Tirigon.

[Ryzaki]

Tirigon wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Boy, this conversation would be a lot more productive if people could read and understand written text.

I just popped in to reiterate that my idea for the 'toggle', 'box', etc DOES NOT CHANGE NPC ATTITUDES OR ACTIONS IN ANY WAY. For instance, in this scenario, "Zevran" (whoever that is) would still hit on male Shepard. The only thing that would change is that Shepard's ability to respond would be governed by the choice made at character creation. It would only affect SHEPARD.

And THIS would SUCK LIKE HELL. To say it politely.


A toggle NEEDS to change the NPCs, or it will be completely pointless and only limit your freedom when playing.

Truth. If someone turned off the bi toggle so they wouldn't be hit on by men having men hit on them would sort of defeat the purpose.

[SorenTrigg]

Tirigon wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Boy, this conversation would be a lot more productive if people could read and understand written text.

I just popped in to reiterate that my idea for the 'toggle', 'box', etc DOES NOT CHANGE NPC ATTITUDES OR ACTIONS IN ANY WAY. For instance, in this scenario, "Zevran" (whoever that is) would still hit on male Shepard. The only thing that would change is that Shepard's ability to respond would be governed by the choice made at character creation. It would only affect SHEPARD.

And THIS would SUCK LIKE HELL. To say it politely.


A toggle NEEDS to change the NPCs, or it will be completely pointless and only limit your freedom when playing.

Which is exactly why I was arguing against it. Because what would be the point of it, then?

The other main reason I was arguing against it is because no other Bioware game has had it. Even the ones with m/m. Likewise, ME1 and 2 did not have a toggle despite having lesbian things in the game.
So why do we need an ability to turn it off now?

[Siansonea]

Personally, I don't like the idea of being able to switch on different character traits of the non-player characters. I think Garrus should be Garrus in everyone's game, not for everyone to have their 'own' Garrus. I think that is a TERRIBLE idea.

[Tirigon]

SorenTrigg wrote...


Which is exactly why I was arguing against it. Because what would be the point of it, then?

The other main reason I was arguing against it is because no other Bioware game has had it. Even the ones with m/m. Likewise, ME1 and 2 did not have a toggle despite having lesbian things in the game.
So why do we need an ability to turn it off now?

Let me be blunt: Because it is just a slight chance that it will calm all those homophobes who don´t want gay romances in their game.

Or, essentially, because the majority of humanity consists of idiots.

[Tirigon]

Siansonea II wrote...

Personally, I don't like the idea of being able to switch on different character traits of the non-player characters. I think Garrus should be Garrus in everyone's game, not for everyone to have their 'own' Garrus. I think that is a TERRIBLE idea.

Come to think of it, I actually like the idea of a toggle more after reading this.

Being able to change the characters would add more replay value.

[KalosCast]

iamthespark wrote...

Toggle isn't the right word, that sounds like you can turn it on and off on a whim - a box at character creation would allow the world to treat you, the ones that know you're queer anyway, that way. I'm a lesbian and I think that's actually quite empowering and not a compromise.

Maybe everytime a male hits on her, Femshep can automatically respond by saying she's not interested or anything else that can make the universe different so you get a slightly different style/unique dialogue if you play, gay, straight or bisexual. That would also add some replay fun, no?

Or, you know, there's up to 6 different options displayable at once on the dialog wheel, or 5 + "Investigate"

[Siansonea]

SorenTrigg wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Boy, this conversation would be a lot more productive if people could read and understand written text.

I just popped in to reiterate that my idea for the 'toggle', 'box', etc DOES NOT CHANGE NPC ATTITUDES OR ACTIONS IN ANY WAY. For instance, in this scenario, "Zevran" (whoever that is) would still hit on male Shepard. The only thing that would change is that Shepard's ability to respond would be governed by the choice made at character creation. It would only affect SHEPARD.

And THIS would SUCK LIKE HELL. To say it politely.


A toggle NEEDS to change the NPCs, or it will be completely pointless and only limit your freedom when playing.

Which is exactly why I was arguing against it. Because what would be the point of it, then?

The other main reason I was arguing against it is because no other Bioware game has had it. Even the ones with m/m. Likewise, ME1 and 2 did not have a toggle despite having lesbian things in the game.
So why do we need an ability to turn it off now?

Oh look, Soren is asking "why" again. I bet when you were growing up your first word was "why". At least you've found a new way of asking "why" with "what would be the point of it". You know, you could easily pick up other languages, since you only have to learn the one word. It must really simplify things for you, since all you ever have to do is ask why all the time. You must be the life of the party.

Let me ask you this: what do you think the point is? Why is it that you think someone might think this idea is a tolerable compromise? Let's see if you can put yourself in another person's shoes. Let's hear what kind of empathy you possess. So far all I've seen from you is the equivalent of folding your arms across your chest and pouting because people disagree with you and not everyone in the world shares your enlightened viewpoint. I guess those people just need to be punished, huh? 

[SorenTrigg]

Siansonea II wrote...

Personally, I don't like the idea of being able to switch on different character traits of the non-player characters. I think Garrus should be Garrus in everyone's game, not for everyone to have their 'own' Garrus. I think that is a TERRIBLE idea.

You do have to remember, though, that the characters do change some depending on how Shepard interacts with them.
Heck, even between male and female potentially. In one, Garrus is just someone who respects Shepard. In another, Garrus is someone who respects Shepard enough to have sex with her that requires research on how to get it done.

[Siansonea]

Tirigon wrote...

SorenTrigg wrote...


Which is exactly why I was arguing against it. Because what would be the point of it, then?

The other main reason I was arguing against it is because no other Bioware game has had it. Even the ones with m/m. Likewise, ME1 and 2 did not have a toggle despite having lesbian things in the game.
So why do we need an ability to turn it off now?

Let me be blunt: Because it is just a slight chance that it will calm all those homophobes who don´t want gay romances in their game.

Or, essentially, because the majority of humanity consists of idiots.

Misanthropic much? Real helpful. Those 'idiots' are BioWare's bread-and-butter customers. If push comes to shove, guess who their going to side with? Kinda don't feel sorry for the rest of us in this scenario.

BioWare omitted the content for a reason. Whatever that reason is, it hasn't gone away or the options would exist in ME2. We can only speculate the reason, but instead of offering BioWare ideas for possible solutions, all the rest of you seem to want to do is demand that BioWare reverse their position without any consideration for the effect such a reversal would have on BioWare. And we're supposed to be the reasonable and tolerant ones?

[Wittand25]

Tirigon wrote...

SorenTrigg wrote...


Which is exactly why I was arguing against it. Because what would be the point of it, then?

The other main reason I was arguing against it is because no other Bioware game has had it. Even the ones with m/m. Likewise, ME1 and 2 did not have a toggle despite having lesbian things in the game.
So why do we need an ability to turn it off now?

Let me be blunt: Because it is just a slight chance that it will calm all those homophobes who don´t want gay romances in their game.

Or, essentially, because the majority of humanity consists of idiots.

I think that we have better chances to get the s/s romance with other solutions than such a toggle for the simple reason that this toggle would require changes in the core mechanics of the game because it switches genderchecks on and off and is therefore hard to implement int the game.
Clearly marked romance dialog is easier to implement serves the same purpose without creating restrictions for the players.
By the way the only serious complaint about Zevran was that he( just like the other LI in DA) could activate his romance without the players intent, which could lead to influence loss. This is no problem in ME2 because the romances are handeled differently and even the most insistent opposers can be expected to just say no if a Npc of the same sex as their Shepard hits on him/her which is enough to end any romance in ME2 for good.

[Siansonea]

SorenTrigg wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Personally, I don't like the idea of being able to switch on different character traits of the non-player characters. I think Garrus should be Garrus in everyone's game, not for everyone to have their 'own' Garrus. I think that is a TERRIBLE idea.

You do have to remember, though, that the characters do change some depending on how Shepard interacts with them.
Heck, even between male and female potentially. In one, Garrus is just someone who respects Shepard. In another, Garrus is someone who respects Shepard enough to have sex with her that requires research on how to get it done.

*buzzer* WRONG. Garrus hasn't changed in this scenario, SHEPARD has. Garrus responds differently to a male Shepard and to a female Shepard. How is this not the same Garrus?

[Tirigon]

Siansonea II wrote...


Oh look, Soren is asking "why" again. I bet when you were growing up your first word was "why". At least you've found a new way of asking "why" with "what would be the point of it". You know, you could easily pick up other languages, since you only have to learn the one word. It must really simplify things for you, since all you ever have to do is ask why all the time. You must be the life of the party.

Siansonea what´s wrong with you?
Soren asked a question because s/he wanted more information about my PoV. That´s a valid post that brings a discussion ahead.

All YOU do here is insulting Soren for that......

[Tirigon]

Wittand25 wrote...

I think that we have better chances to get the s/s romance with other solutions than such a toggle for the simple reason that this toggle would require changes in the core mechanics of the game because it switches genderchecks on and off and is therefore hard to implement int the game.

I have a Fanmod for DAO installed that does exactly that. If some fan with the toolset can do it, BioWare programmers should be able to do it, too, shouldn´t they?

[Tirigon]

Siansonea II wrote...


BioWare omitted the content for a reason.

The reason is: The idiots pay more than we.

That´s why I am in favor of a toggle for the NPCs.