7455 réponses à ce sujet

[danman2424]

TommyServo wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
Why do you find it odd, then?

I've already answered that - and it's covered in the FAQ as well, but whatever, here's the short version.

Male Shepard and Female Shepard are the same character.  Why is it that one iteration can identify as gay or bisexual when the other can't?

Did you not read my post?

[Darth Drago]

danman2424 wrote...

Uh read the first word in his post. It's pretty obvious the poster was taking offense to the use of the male Shepard in the video.

-Uh, sorry but no. I was offended by the fact that they would waste the time and space to even have it and then not even to cover a female Shepard‘s options.

danman2424 wrote...

I don't think the issue is about people getting upset, it would be about people finding the game and character too comical to take seriously.

Once again, I know some don't want to hear that, but the fact of the matter is that the image of male Shepard pressed up against another man and kissing is going to be seen as comical by the vast majority of non-gay people out there.

-How is that comical? Do you think a female Shepard pressed up against another female and kissing its not comical? Kind of hypocritical thinking if you do. Seeing two people of any combination of genders showing affection for each other is hardly something I would come close to as comical.

[FataliTensei]

danman2424 wrote...

Yeled wrote...

I actually agree with danman that the f/f options were not likely included to appeal to lesbian gamers. The argument that lesbians got theirs so why can't gay males have an equal option doesn't hold a lot of water with me. Its not a question of fairness, really.

The better argument is that there are likely many, many gay and straight gamers who play Bioware games who would appreciate this content and Bioware would make a lot of their loyal fans happy by including it. I would contend this group is a significant enough number that Bioware should pay attention to it (whether its 5% or 15%, that's a lot of people!), and vastly outnumbers the group that would actually not play the game because its included. There may be a lot of people (unfortunately) who would go, "yuck, gay content," but 99 percent of these would simply ignore it after that initial reaction without worrying further.

I guess what I'm saying is the cost-benefit analysis should show that the amount of goodwill generated among a large portion of its player base would vastly outweigh the negative reaction a few people would have.

I don't think the issue is about people getting upset, it would be about people finding the game and character too comical to take seriously.

Once again, I know some don't want to hear that, but the fact of the matter is that the image of male Shepard pressed up against another man and kissing is going to be seen as comical by the vast majority of non-gay people out there.

How is that comical, elaborate, explain, give good reasons. I've asked you to before but you just ignored it so if you can't back it up then stop using that excuse

Modifié par FataliTensei, 26 février 2010 - 08:30 .

[danman2424]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
I don't think the issue is about people getting upset, it would be about people finding the game and character too comical to take seriously.

Once again, I know some don't want to hear that, but the fact of the matter is that the image of male Shepard pressed up against another man and kissing is going to be seen as comical by the vast majority of non-gay people out there.

But there's nothing comical about it, so I don't understand why it's an issue. I mean, I'm a straight female and I didn't burst into giggle fits when Femshep and Liara had their sexytimes. I didn't find myself laughing when Manshep and Kaiden had their sexytimes (except at the "serving under me" line which, in all fairness, Kaiden laughed at as well). There's nothing any more comical about a homosexual Shepard than there is a heterosexual one. It's just that s/he prefers one sex over another. That's it. 

Because you are a female. It seems most of the female supporters of man on man love in here are really only here because they have a fetish for or find the action to be a turn on.

I'm sure many of you will contest that and say you're just here to support the gays but I've seen some of your past posts and the fan fiction some of you take part in and I'd suggest a lot of you are full of it.

Aside from that, if you don't see why it would be taken as humorous then I can't help you. I can assure you with 100% confidence though, that most people would laugh at it.

Modifié par danman2424, 26 février 2010 - 08:36 .

[FKA_Servo]

Dubbel poast.  I have my edited response a couple spots below.

Modifié par TommyServo, 26 février 2010 - 08:33 .

[danman2424]

Darth Drago wrote...


-Uh, sorry but no. I was offended by the fact that they would waste the time and space to even have it and then not even to cover a female Shepard‘s options.

 

See, Jimmy? I know an offended person when I see one.

Modifié par danman2424, 26 février 2010 - 08:32 .

[FKA_Servo]

danman2424 wrote...
Did you not read my post?

If you're referring to this, Danman,

It's not an equality thing. I'm pretty sure Bioware didn't put a
lesbian option in the game for the benefit of the few gay women that
might happen to play the game. The main audience for a game like this
is male and they obviously put some options in that would allow a male
gamer who chooses to play as a female either from the start or as a
second play through (and there are more than you'd think) to be able to
better enjoy that experience. Most men would not want to pursue a
relationship with Kaidan.

Yeah, I read it.  I'm not talking about appeasement, I'm talking about depth of characterization.  And I answered clearly why I and other people think the lack of the option is odd.

[Wittand25]

danman2424 wrote...

Aside from that, if you don't see why it would be taken as humorous then I can't help you. I can assure you with 100% confidence though, that most people would laugh at it.

 For about five seconds, just as long as people laughed about the Zevran romance. No male over the age of fifteen would laugh or think about that for longer than a couple of minutes, because everybody would consider him weird.

Modifié par Wittand25, 26 février 2010 - 08:59 .

[danman2424]

TommyServo wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
Did you not read my post?

If you're referring to this, Danman,

It's not an equality thing. I'm pretty sure Bioware didn't put a
lesbian option in the game for the benefit of the few gay women that
might happen to play the game. The main audience for a game like this
is male and they obviously put some options in that would allow a male
gamer who chooses to play as a female either from the start or as a
second play through (and there are more than you'd think) to be able to
better enjoy that experience. Most men would not want to pursue a
relationship with Kaidan.

Yeah, I read it.  I'm not talking about appeasement, I'm talking about depth of characterization.  And I answered clearly why I and other people think the lack of the option is odd.

No you didn't. You just kept saying "I find it odd" when i'd already explained you why it isn't odd at all.

[FKA_Servo]

danman2424 wrote...
Because you are a female. It seems most of the female supporters of man on man love in here are really only here because they have a fetish for or find the action to be a turn on.

I'm sure many of you will contest that and say you're just here to support the gays but I've seen some of your past posts and the fan fiction some of you take part in and I'd suggest a lot of you are full of it.

Aside from that, if you don't see why it would be taken as humorous then I can't help you. I can assure you with 100% confidence though, that most people would laugh at it.

While it obviously comes up, I don't think real life sex or orientation has any bearing on whether you'd support the inclusion of this content or not.  Nothing is taken away from anyone, and some of the suggested implementations involve lots of great content that all players can enjoy.

I think most of us support it because we want more freedom to craft an interesting protagonist.  More personality and life defining choices make for more interesting and personal characters.

[Erode_The_Soul]

danman2424 wrote...
Because you are a female. It seems most of the female supporters of man on man love in here are really only here because they have a fetish for or find the action to be a turn on.

I'm sure many of you will contest that and say you're just here to support the gays but I've seen some of your past posts and the fan fiction some of you take part in and I'd guess a lot of you are full of it.

Aside from that, if you don't see why it would be taken as humorous then I can't help you. I can assure you with 100% confidence though, that most people would laugh at it.

First, I'd like to ask you to not make assumptions about me. You have very little basis to do so and it makes me uncomfortable

To address your points specifically:
I do not have a fetish for man on man and am certainly not turned on by it. This has absolutely no bearing on my support for the option for a homosexual relationship in a game.

Second, I contest your assumption because it is not true and based on nothing, which is also the case with your having "seen my past posts and fanfiction" comment. My past posts indicate nothing of fetishes and I don't write fanfiction. So...yeah.

And I don't see what's comical about it. I really don't. I mean, it's not like they're suddenly going to throw Manshep into a fishnet catsuit, dawning a cape made of rainbows and have him skip through the battlefield singing showtunes or something*. He just prefers fellows over ladies. That's realy the one and only difference. And if people find that funny, maybe they need to grow up a bit?

*I know this was a horrible stereotype and not indicative of normal homosexual individuals.

[jlb524]

danman2424 wrote...

Because you are a female. It seems most of the female supporters of man on man love in here are really only here because they have a fetish for or find the action to be a turn on.

I'm sure many of you will contest that and say you're just here to support the gays but I've seen some of your past posts and the fan fiction some of you take part in and I'd suggest a lot of you are full of it.

IMO, arguments like these are an ad hominem.  You can't debunk arguments for the inclusion of same-sex romances by calling its supporters a bunch of horny straight people with weird fetishes who like to see f/f or m/m for some reason.

[FataliTensei]

jlb524 wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Because you are a female. It seems most of the female supporters of man on man love in here are really only here because they have a fetish for or find the action to be a turn on.

I'm sure many of you will contest that and say you're just here to support the gays but I've seen some of your past posts and the fan fiction some of you take part in and I'd suggest a lot of you are full of it.

IMO, arguments like these are an ad hominem.  You can't debunk arguments for the inclusion of same-sex romances by calling its supporters a bunch of horny straight people with weird fetishes who like to see f/f or m/m for some reason.

[FlyinElk212]

Wow. Everyone's ganging up on Danman.

And last time I was here on these forums, he was giving clear and civil arguments. His arguments only went against those of this forum. Because of that, everyone feels the need to get on his case and make him feel bad about himself?

C'mon guys, stop dissecting every little word this guy says that contradicts your beliefs and actually TRY to comprehend his words. I totally support this thread, but I in no way support the way the supporters of this thread tear apart people with opposing views.

(And correct me if I'm wrong, and if Danman really has just turned into an arrogant ******. From my last experience with him, however, my guess is that he hasn't.)

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 26 février 2010 - 08:58 .

[danman2424]

jlb524 wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Because you are a female. It seems most of the female supporters of man on man love in here are really only here because they have a fetish for or find the action to be a turn on.

I'm sure many of you will contest that and say you're just here to support the gays but I've seen some of your past posts and the fan fiction some of you take part in and I'd suggest a lot of you are full of it.

IMO, arguments like these are an ad hominem.  You can't debunk arguments for the inclusion of same-sex romances by calling its supporters a bunch of horny straight people with weird fetishes who like to see f/f or m/m for some reason.

True. i still think there are way too many women in here trying to get this in, some of which I have seen in other threads drooling over Mass Effect man on man fan fiction saying other dirty comments. I can also see why less women would find man on man love to be funny because they are more likely to find it sexually arousing. Same reason why more men are less likely to find (good looking) women on women to be humorous.

[jlb524]

danman2424 wrote...

True. i still think there are way too many women in here trying to get this in, some of which I have seen in other threads drooling over Mass Effect man on man fan fiction saying other dirty comments. I can also see why less women would find man on man love to be funny because they are more likely to find it sexually arousing. Same reason why more men are less likely to find (good looking) women on women to be humorous.

Well, I believe straight men who drool over the ME straight romances should fall under similar criticisms that you've levied against the people who enjoy gay romances.

*looks at 'Miranda a**' thread that just popped up*

Modifié par jlb524, 26 février 2010 - 09:01 .

[FataliTensei]

jlb524 wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

True. i still think there are way too many women in here trying to get this in, some of which I have seen in other threads drooling over Mass Effect man on man fan fiction saying other dirty comments. I can also see why less women would find man on man love to be funny because they are more likely to find it sexually arousing. Same reason why more men are less likely to find (good looking) women on women to be humorous.

Well, I believe straight men who drool over the ME straight romances should fall under similar criticisms that you've levied against the people who enjoy gay romances.

*looks at 'Miranda a**' thread that just popped up*

I'm gay and I have to admite "dat azz" is pretty nice XD

[jlb524]

FataliTensei wrote...

I'm gay and I have to admite "dat azz" is pretty nice XD

Indeed. 

[Collider]

[quote]Heavensrun wrote...
I never said any of those things.  I said his statement angered me, because it's dishonest.[/quote]
Never said you said them.

Shepard is not a predefined character,[/quote]
Yes, he/she is. It is literally impossible to account for every possibility you can imagine for your Shepard. He/She joined the Alliance, became Commander, became a Spectre, became Captain of the Normandy, and is a slew of different other things.

  [quote]If Shepard is predefined as stright, why is femshep predefined differently?  Why does she have options maleshep doesn't have?[/quote]
Maybe because none of the characters that are male are bisexual or homosexual.

[Ryzaki]

Okay about the whole "taking a character seriously" in heavy rain there's this fat detective. I can't help but laugh whenever I see his belly jiggle but when he gets down to business I'm in awe and he has my respect. He's awesome. Fat belly and all XD.

Just thought I would put it out there.

And Shep isn't predefined to be any sexuality. Maybe all his crewmates that are male aren't interested in him. That doesn't suddenly turn someone straight. All character's in any video game are predefined to a certain extent. No character is exempt from this (unless of course you've improb but seeing as video games don't do that...)

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 février 2010 - 09:23 .

[Erode_The_Soul]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Wow. Everyone's ganging up on Danman.

And last time I was here on these forums, he was giving clear and civil arguments. His arguments only went against those of this forum. Because of that, everyone feels the need to get on his case and make him feel bad about himself?

C'mon guys, stop dissecting every little word this guy says that contradicts your beliefs and actually TRY to comprehend his words. I totally support this thread, but I in no way support the way the supporters of this thread tear apart people with opposing views.

(And correct me if I'm wrong, and if Danman really has just turned into an arrogant ******. From my last experience with him, however, my guess is that he hasn't.)

Just for the record, in case the tone came across as argumentative, I wasn't trying to get on Danman's case about his views. I just didn't appreciate his assumptions about me and didn't (and still don't) understand his point in relation to the post I repsonded to. Just to clear things up

[Yeled]

jlb524 wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

True. i still think there are way too many women in here trying to get this in, some of which I have seen in other threads drooling over Mass Effect man on man fan fiction saying other dirty comments. I can also see why less women would find man on man love to be funny because they are more likely to find it sexually arousing. Same reason why more men are less likely to find (good looking) women on women to be humorous.

Well, I believe straight men who drool over the ME straight romances should fall under similar criticisms that you've levied against the people who enjoy gay romances.

*looks at 'Miranda a**' thread that just popped up*

Exactly.  And more to the point, if f/f options aren't an attempt to appease the lesbian fanbase (which danman said and I agreed with), then they are there as fanservice for straight men who find girl-on-girl action hot.

And that's fine.  More power to them.  I don't see why that's an argument against its inclusion.  Nor should m/m be excluded because its fanservice for those who might be interested.

Of course, my guess is that there are more gay men who want that content than straight women.  But either way it doesn't matter.

[Lightice_av]

Maybe because none of the characters that are male are bisexual or homosexual.

The characters are fictional. What they are or aren't depends on the writers, and those who turn their scripts into scenes in the game. Thane and Tali were written as bisexual, but the script didn't get to the final product intact.

[Ulysseslotro]

This is a very devisive political matter. I say lock these threads, and anyone starting new one should get banned. The forum has been great fun, but now we have hate everywhere because someone didn't get to pork Uranus?

Come on I don't start threads like "It isn't fair that Bioware made reference to gays with 'Probing Uranus' as being the only sexual content EDI makes! Why leave out heterosexual jokes!" <My arguement is frivolous and political disguissed as hate speech. Ban them.

Modifié par Ulysseslotro, 26 février 2010 - 09:30 .

[Yeled]

I want to remind everyone to not feed the troll.