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[Boombox]

Tirigon wrote...

Boombox wrote...

People cannot change their sexuality.

Of course they can.
Sexuality develops during your life. If it was unchangeable children would be attracted to the same kind of people as they are as adults from birth on. This is not the case, so obviously sexuality can change.

Thats an awful example. You think a pre-adolescent would know what they are attracted to? Sexuality develops during your life but it doesn't change. As you get older you gain more of an understanding of your sexuality, but you cannot change it.

Behavious might change but it doesn't mean sexuality does.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Sexuality is physical. It manifests itself upon puberty. Cultural pressures can cause someone to hide their sexuality but their sexuality cannot be changed.

[Boombox]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Sexuality is physical. It manifests itself upon puberty. Cultural pressures can cause someone to hide their sexuality but their sexuality cannot be changed.

Exactly right!

[Tirigon]

Boombox wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Sexuality is physical. It manifests itself upon puberty. Cultural pressures can cause someone to hide their sexuality but their sexuality cannot be changed.

Exactly right!

How exactly can feelings - and love or attraction ARE feelings - be physical?

I´m sorry but I can´t see any reason in your arguments.

[Ryzaki]

I'm seeing vast amounts of RAEG in this thread.



-__-*

[Onyx Jaguar]

Tirigon wrote...

Boombox wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Sexuality is physical. It manifests itself upon puberty. Cultural pressures can cause someone to hide their sexuality but their sexuality cannot be changed.

Exactly right!

How exactly can feelings - and love or attraction ARE feelings - be physical?

I´m sorry but I can´t see any reason in your arguments.

Tirigon I am going to assume you are bisexual.  If not correct me then.

Attraction is a physical state.  A homosexual man is not going to feel anything sexually for a Woman, no matter their personality, attractiveness or whatever.  They are not going to be stimulated, they are not going to be attracted.  I really do not understand exactly where you are coming from this should be obvious. 

[LiquidGrape]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm seeing vast amounts of RAEG in this thread.

-__-*

Yeah. What ever happened to the looooooooove?

[Tirigon]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...


Tirigon I am going to assume you are bisexual.  If not correct me then.

Attraction is a physical state.  A homosexual man is not going to feel anything sexually for a Woman, no matter their personality, attractiveness or whatever.  They are not going to be stimulated, they are not going to be attracted.  I really do not understand exactly where you are coming from this should be obvious. 

Even if this sounds stupid - I don´t know if I am bisexual or straight: I haven´t been sexually attracted to another man  or been in love with one yet, but I´m only 18, so who´s to say I can´t meet Mr Right at some time?
I mean, I am not attracted to every woman just because she´s female. Actually I have seen VERY few women yet I found really attractive, and I think some men are more beautiful than most women I´ve seen.

For me, attraction DOES (contrary to what you claim) depend on the other´s character and looks, not his / her gender.




Edited because the formating sucked. Hope it helped....

Modifié par Tirigon, 11 mai 2010 - 09:29 .

[Cootie]

I will have to ask everyone to stay on topic, please. This is not for
discussing the mannerisms or perceptions of homosexuality, or society's
norms. That's hardly relevant and I think it was specified amongst the
first few posts that this was not what the thread was designed for.

Besides,
all I hear is "I think this" answered by "Oh, yeah? Then how come that
I have THIS point of view?" followed by "Your point of view is wrong,
because my perception of reality is this! Hah-hah!"
And so it goes on in my eyes.

Now, to get back on topic,

SorenTrigg wrote...

Eliminating the gender check would be perfectly fine. It is all I really want.

But, I would not say no to more in depth content.

This would make me a happy, go-giddy person.

[Nordic Einar]

In a perfect world I would love DLC to be released for ME1 and ME2 that would re-add the planned S/S romances. I doubt that this will occur a great deal, however.

[Siansonea]

Tirigon wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...


Tirigon I am going to assume you are bisexual.  If not correct me then.

Attraction is a physical state.  A homosexual man is not going to feel anything sexually for a Woman, no matter their personality, attractiveness or whatever.  They are not going to be stimulated, they are not going to be attracted.  I really do not understand exactly where you are coming from this should be obvious. 

Even if this sounds stupid - I don´t know if I am bisexual or straight: I haven´t been sexually attracted to another man  or been in love with one yet, but I´m only 18, so who´s to say I can´t meet Mr Right at some time?
I mean, I am not attracted to every woman just because she´s female. Actually I have seen VERY few women yet I found really attractive, and I think some men are more beautiful than most women I´ve seen.

For me, attraction DOES (contrary to what you claim) depend on the other´s character and looks, not his / her gender.




Edited because the formating sucked. Hope it helped....

Soooo, because of your personal experience with fluid sexuality/bisexual tendencies, this is somehow being offered as proof that sexuality does not have a biological/physiological component? That sexuality develops as a response to environment only? That's an awfully dangerous slope, and there are many religion based gay-reeducation programs that would love you for saying this. After all, if sexuality can change, why not just pray the gay away?

If you're actually referring to a legitimate study you've run across that expresses this idea, I would like to read it.

[sami jo]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Boombox wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Sexuality is physical. It manifests itself upon puberty. Cultural pressures can cause someone to hide their sexuality but their sexuality cannot be changed.

Exactly right!

How exactly can feelings - and love or attraction ARE feelings - be physical?

I´m sorry but I can´t see any reason in your arguments.

Tirigon I am going to assume you are bisexual.  If not correct me then.

Attraction is a physical state.  A homosexual man is not going to feel anything sexually for a Woman, no matter their personality, attractiveness or whatever.  They are not going to be stimulated, they are not going to be attracted.  I really do not understand exactly where you are coming from this should be obvious. 

Attraction is a mental state that may be expressed physically.  There are more kinds of attraction than the purely physical.  Mental and emotional attraction are a significant force, and far more importnant in long term relationships than the physical attraction.  Let's face it, none of us are going to look as pretty at 80 as we did at 20, but I'm not planning on becoming celibate and I suspect my partner of 11 years would object if I did.  There have been many people in my life who were not what I would normally be attracted to physically who I was extremely attracted to because of the whole of who they were (my partner being one of them).

Sexuality isn't some magical thing that triggers at puberty either.  The sexual portion of it does, but falling in love with someone is about a good deal more than sex, and attraction is about a good deal more than sex.  The term itself is badly misleading. 

As for what that has to do with the game, I don't recall any of these characters declaring that they are only attracted to human genetalia of one variety.  Some sort of toggle for those who find amoral murderers as NPC's morally acceptable but not a gay NPC would be a reasonable compromise.  I find the implication that falling in love with someone of the same sex is worse than murder pretty repellent, but reason clearly has little impact here.

[IngoLoema]

This thread is going round in circles.

I would like to go back on topic, and I declare, I would like to see a DLC (free) that toggles the gender check off or a DLC (also free) that adds a new companion.

So please stop goin' on why being gay/ lesbian is/ isn't appropiate in your opinion.

Modifié par IngoLoema, 11 mai 2010 - 10:29 .

[Creature 1]

Siansonea II wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...


Tirigon I am going to assume you are bisexual.  If not correct me then.

Attraction is a physical state.  A homosexual man is not going to feel anything sexually for a Woman, no matter their personality, attractiveness or whatever.  They are not going to be stimulated, they are not going to be attracted.  I really do not understand exactly where you are coming from this should be obvious. 

Even if this sounds stupid - I don´t know if I am bisexual or straight: I haven´t been sexually attracted to another man  or been in love with one yet, but I´m only 18, so who´s to say I can´t meet Mr Right at some time?
I mean, I am not attracted to every woman just because she´s female. Actually I have seen VERY few women yet I found really attractive, and I think some men are more beautiful than most women I´ve seen.

For me, attraction DOES (contrary to what you claim) depend on the other´s character and looks, not his / her gender.




Edited because the formating sucked. Hope it helped....

Soooo, because of your personal experience with fluid sexuality/bisexual tendencies, this is somehow being offered as proof that sexuality does not have a biological/physiological component? That sexuality develops as a response to environment only? That's an awfully dangerous slope, and there are many religion based gay-reeducation programs that would love you for saying this. After all, if sexuality can change, why not just pray the gay away?

If you're actually referring to a legitimate study you've run across that expresses this idea, I would like to read it.

No point in denying fact.  Especially for women sexual orientation is more like a rheostat than a toggle, and it can vary over time.  But that doesn't mean brainwashing a person to be straight is a good idea.  The fluctuation in sexual orientation is a natural process for a lot of people that happens for reasons that aren't entirely clear.  To take a stab at it, I'd guess it's probably depending upon existing relationships, a person's wishes for the future, and who they happen to meet, among other factors.  Since this fluctuation is a natural process and occurs in either direction attempts to manipulate the process and fix a person's sexual orientation at one setting are doomed to futility.  Programs that try to turn people straight aren't at all analogous to this natural fluctuation, and instead take a crowbar to a person's psyche. 

[Boombox]

The only problem I have with some kind of gay toggle thing (or making everyone an option for same sex romance) is I feel like it gives the impression that people can choose their sexuality or change it.



Anti-gay groups (and religious groups) use the whole 'being gay is a choice' as the base of all their arguments to refuse the gay community of rights. I just wouldn't want to send a message in the game that supports this idea.



...Does that make sense at all?

[Onyx Jaguar]

Yes, thats why I am strongly against it.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah Boombox that's kind of why I'm somewhat against it as well.

[IngoLoema]

@ Boombox, Onyx Jaguar and Ryzaki



Now I get it, but I hope you understand, in my country we don't have those strong anti-gay groups.

The church groups, well, the Catholics have bigger fish to fry at the moment and the Protestants tried to embrace the gays and lesbians years ago.



There are also a LOT of LG-church groups who do streetworking at schools to help adolescents/ teachers deal with this topic.



Don't get me wrong, there is also intolerance going on, but not in a "movement" kind of way.

[Persephone]

I'm sure this has been proposed before but.... Why not put orientation in the Character creation launcher? Go for straight, gay or bi and the LI options are presented according to your choice. Record a few more lines and boom, it's done. But I guess I'm too naive.... *Runs away to avoid being hurt* ))

[Strikor2115]

why can't everyone just accept everyone? People shouldn't even care about how other people are, or what they like. We are all people, ya?

[sw33ts]

First lol at someone challenging fluid sexuality.  W00t w00t?  Someone should google fluid sexuality.

Second, you do realize Frued was high on most of his "findings." 
Always Coca-Cola.
Penis envy mi culo.

Persephone wrote...

I'm sure this has been proposed before but.... Why not put orientation in the Character creation launcher? Go for straight, gay or bi and the LI options are presented according to your choice. Record a few more lines and boom, it's done. But I guess I'm too naive.... *Runs away to avoid being hurt* ))

That seems really funny to me.  Are you saying if I were to choose lesbian then only people of the same sex would be open to me (this means EVERYONE(Miranda, Jack, Tali, Kelly, EDI)) or are you saying if I were to choose lesbian all the crew that is a male would not hit on me.  Meaning only Kelly hits on me.

Modifié par sw33ts, 12 mai 2010 - 01:14 .

[Dubidox]

I have no issues with the options for same sex romance being in the game: As in, I don't see what the big deal is if someone wants to play their Shep as gay.

However, I think the toggle idea is not a very good way of doing it. The heart of Myzukas post spoke to the fact that these are "third person" type characters and while I think that there should be "gay" options for Shepard since he/she is the essentially the PC, the other characters are even more "third person". From an artistic PoV I could see why Bioware wouldn't want the player to be able to force that kind of thing.

On the other hand, the other solution would be to tell the writers, "Go write a same sex romance DLC." and forcing it like that just kinda cheapens it ya know? Personally I'd say the best you can really expect is for them to learn from this kind of thread, and ensure that those kinds of options are there in future games.

Just to be clear: if they DID implement the ability to remove the gender checks I'd think that was pretty cool of them. I played DAO before looking at ME and though I personally haven't bothered with a same sex romance I don't see why I should care if they market the equivalent of a DLC "mod/toolset" that allows people to tinker with those settings.

So like any good Canadian I'm situated firmly on the fence

Modifié par Dubidox, 12 mai 2010 - 01:35 .

[SorenTrigg]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I disagree, I believe I see an inconsitency in your statements.
Kelly and Liara's sexuality is no more set than any other character going by your past statements. 

I can accept that Liara may not count given what I said. However, Kelly has stated that sex and species do not matter to her. That is close enough, surely?

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Giving Liara and Kelly the sexual orientation portrayal of heterosexuals, would be a retcon, just as giving the rest of the characters a sexual orientation portrayal of bisexuality.  It changes the characters' profile. 

I agree with you on part of that. Changing them to heterosexual would be retconning. But only because it is *removing* content that is already established.
If Kaidan, for example, had ever said "I am only into girls, Shepard." then I would be with you. He should never ever be a same sex romance in that case. Yes, he has expressed interest in females, but...so? That is not the same.