7455 réponses à ce sujet

[khevan]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
Not that I am against that, and it is sounds more possible that way than DLC, but I am not convinced that there will even be any new LI's in ME3.  I tend to think that the LI's that we have now (ME1&2), will be the ones that we have in ME3, but I could be wrong of course.

Yeah, we'll see.  I hope Bioware puts two new squaddies, both of them homosexual LI's (obviously one male, one female), and preferably two bisexual characters in as well, but that'd be pushing it.  Either way, there should be something available for those who want to pursue a same sex in-game romance.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Anybody have links to the video(s) featuring the deleted intimate conversations between Male Shepard and Kaidan in ME1? That was really hilarious.

[Fiery Phoenix]

NVM my previous question. Found the links in the original post.

[Tirigon]

Siansonea II wrote...

or Zaeed for that matter. To my knowledge, Zaeed hasn't mentioned being involved romantically with anyone

Zaeed has had a VERY strong relationship. With Jessie.

[Tirigon]

JohnnyDollar wrote...


Though I  believe I  have seen people make statements here in this thread that "people can change", and then say  "Make all of them bi".

Yes. Because if only some are bi you can still not romance the companion you want. That would suck.


I mean, let´s imagine Jack, Jacob and Miranda are bi in ME3, but the others are not. For me that would suck like hell because I hate these 3......

Further, I think it should be written in a way that IN THEORY every LI can be bi - however, you only realize that if you pursue this relationship.

So, if I go for example for Tali she is lesbian in my playthrough, the others are not. If I go for Miranda, SHE is - and Tali is like she was.

[Syledir]

@ Johnny Dollar

I agree that the characters play a big part in the story. Their sexuality however does not. Or can you tell me a single moment in the game where it did? Neither Tali nor the other NPC's changed their behaviour once you pursued a romance with her. And not a single one viewed Shepard differently afterwards. No one called him alien lover or anything. The only one who had something to say was Mordin, but he has to say something about every LI no matter who.



Only because the NPC didn't say that he/she is ALSO interested in the same sex, doesn't mean that it isn't so.



And no, I am not talking about radical deviations from the current game. "Changing" the sexuality of a NPC doesn't make him/her more or less compassionate or lets them change their views about the Geth for example. The mechanics of the game wouldn't change. The level design wouldn't change. The NPC's wouldn't change. Only the romance dialogue would be added and one romance scene. I don't know how long you need to play until you have finished one playthrough. Let's say 20 hours. All the romance dialogue and the romance scene, what was missing, would take maybe 15 minutes. That's less than 2 percent.

[The Uncanny]

Ryzaki wrote...

Disclaimer: That is not mine. I found it on one of the same sex romance topics. I forgot which one. The only reason I even found it was because Firefox has godly history.

Though yes. It is hysterical. And I choked on my food while hearing it for the first time as well.

That is by BobbyTheI.

For more of this gold go here.

[tyddrwsau]

Syledir wrote...

I agree that the characters play a big part in the story. Their sexuality however does not. Or can you tell me a single moment in the game where it did? Neither Tali nor the other NPC's changed their behaviour once you pursued a romance with her. And not a single one viewed Shepard differently afterwards. No one called him alien lover or anything. The only one who had something to say was Mordin, but he has to say something about every LI no matter who.

I think that it would be lovely to have more choice-based scripting that drives other characters' behaviors in the game. Having other characters acknowledge the relationship Shepard is in would add richness and immersion (a bunch of Terra Firma types going after Shepard for being an "alien lover" would be neat, to go with your example), as would some behavioral changes in the romantic interest that acknowledge that they are intimate with Shepard. All of that would be cool. What you're talking about, though, is more the fact that the characters' basic personalities don't change based on whether they are or are not romancing Shepard.

That ties into a recurrent issue in these threads that perplexes me a bit: the idea that several posters state they would like a character less if they had the potential to be gay/bi, or that this would "completely change their character." 

On the one hand, I quite understand opposition to pressuring someone to be someone they are not and affect a false sexual orientation to please others. It's horribly disrespectful of a person to do that, and at the least thoughtless and annoying if not outright harmful when it's done.

But that applies to real people, with actual identities of their own. Fictional characters don't have identities, except inasmuch as they're provided with defining characteristics to help us understand and identify the character. As you point out, no one in Mass Effect identifies their sexual orientation (except Shepard with the "I'm only interested in men." line). That leaves fluidity and potential for exploring this as a new part of the character identity if they go that route. We could find out that Kaidan is bi, much like we could find out that he served on a mission alongside an Asari commando before his Normandy post, or any other identity/backstory element not yet introduced or explicitly ruled out. Same with the others.

The "It would totally taint ______ character for me to find out they were bisexual!" or "it would totally change _____ if they were bi!" lines of argument is a little  troubling when it crosses back into the real world, too. As I and others have mentioned before, if one finds out that someone one knows (even someone one has come to know pretty well otherwise) is gay or bi, it does not change who they are. It changes what one knows about them, but hardly invalidates their other personality traits, and certainly shouldn't erase what made them likeable before. It saddens me to know that it's likely that there are people that those who've posted these opinions know, who are not out to these folks. When faced with a real person, I should hope they'll be more accepting of the new information than they are faced with the prospect to changes in a fictional character.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Tirigon wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

or Zaeed for that matter. To my knowledge, Zaeed hasn't mentioned being involved romantically with anyone

Zaeed has had a VERY strong relationship. With Jessie.

He also mentions a relationship he had with an Asari that turned on him.

If they include both him and Kasumi as LIs in ME 3 they'd both be bi or straight ones

[Draelorn]

Bioware has always been known for breaking new ground.  I'm sure they even have some gay employees who should bring up the sunject.  I'm not gay but I do enjoy variety in my party.  Zevren was a great character.  Loved the banter in Wade's Armory.  Perhaps in future games they could have sexual orientation boxes to check off, and alter the dialogue based on the player's choice.

[Kya]

Seeing what trouble they had in Singapore with ME 1, I wonder how much of a commercial and legal decision it is to keep the same-sex relationships limited.



I really liked that there were more romance options in general in ME 2. You could actually go for some personality. I also appreciated the options of FemShep flirting with Kelly and Paragon FemShep voicing interest in Samara. My FemShep was imported from ME 1 and in the end will be loyal and faithful to Liara, so it didn't really bother me that there was no full-fledged same-sex option for her this time around.



(I still would have liked to create a new FemShep and have her go after Miranda and have a "And stop smiling, damn it!" thrown at her. XD)



But looking at the male same sex options I think those preferring the female ones are already privileged. I think in all fairness the male options need to be increased, even if it's just flirts. Pander to those players, too, please. In ME 1, FemShep could shoot Liara down because she was female, I don't see why something like that shouldn't be possible with other gay options.





And from the starting post: I like the idea of colored font, but it sort of takes away some of the joy of RPG. How about making Shep's orientation/interest part of the character, just like background, morality, gender and looks? It could allow or block certain options right from the start.The homophobic players would be 'safe' and the rest happy.

[lovgreno]

Kya wrote...

And from the starting post: I like the idea of colored font, but it sort of takes away some of the joy of RPG. How about making Shep's orientation/interest part of the character, just like background, morality, gender and looks? It could allow or block certain options right from the start.The homophobic players would be 'safe' and the rest happy.

Sadly the very thought of a same sex romance option about a fictional character that they don't have to choose is scary enough for some people.

[SorenTrigg]

Kya wrote...
And from the starting post: I like the idea of colored font, but it sort of takes away some of the joy of RPG. How about making Shep's orientation/interest part of the character, just like background, morality, gender and looks? It could allow or block certain options right from the start.The homophobic players would be 'safe' and the rest happy.

How come you think colored text would take away from the game at all? I mean, I see it in a similar fashion as the blue charm text, or the red intimidate text.
As for the option at the start...ugh. I do not really want to get into that again. We discussed it at length several times, and a lot of us are against it.

[Kya]

lovgreno wrote...
Sadly the very thought of a same sex romance option about a fictional character that they don't have to choose is scary enough for some people.

This, in turn, scares me.

SorenTrigg wrote...
How come you think colored text would take away from the game at all? I mean, I see it in a similar fashion as the blue charm text, or the red intimidate text.

Well, ok, after you got the hang of it all, it might not matter anymore. But when I was new to the game I didn't know exactly what reactions to expect from any of the options, or if I would get the reactions I wanted. Coloring would give away the outcome. *shrug* Just that, nothing more. If that's what it takes to have a broader range of romance options it'd be a small compromise I'm very happy to make.

I also think that the charm and intimate options are rather... I don't know... shortcuts. You know for sure you get what you want if you use them.

SorenTrigg wrote...
As for the option at the start...ugh. I do not really want to get into that again. We discussed it at length several times, and a lot of us are against it.

I'm sorry. I suspected as much, it's too obvious an idea to be new. I'm a newbie here and I haven't read prior conversations. 

I'd think, though, when it comes to choice at the start vs. coloring, having it constantly shoved into your face by colored lines would be worse than being confronted with it once, at the start of the game and then never again.  

Modifié par Kya, 16 mai 2010 - 10:27 .

[Tirigon]

I wish they would release a Mass Effect Toolset (preferrably one that even I can understand^^) so we could just fix the lack of homosexual romances ourselves. It´s quite annoying that it has been cut to adapt to homophobe idiots.

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

slimgrin wrote...
Seriously? Come on. Lesbians are way less threatening. And I'm not speaking for myself, just saying that is how our society views them.

I suppose you have a point. That's why nobody really raised a fuss over Final Fantasy XIII.

[sw33ts]

Lesbians in FF?



hmm.



And a toolset would be a nice implementation.

[Ryzaki]

Miss Yuna of Atlanta wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
Seriously? Come on. Lesbians are way less threatening. And I'm not speaking for myself, just saying that is how our society views them.

I suppose you have a point. That's why nobody really raised a fuss over Final Fantasy XIII.

Could also be that its a JRPG. Metal Gear Solid's (Yes I know its not a JRPG but it is a game made by a Japanese company) Vamp didn't really get any fuss either. Neither did Volgin. Or the fact that Ocelot placed many of the games events in motion because of his unrequited love for Big Boss.

Other than the whole "CREEP!" factor but that had more to do with them in general than their orientations.

Liking crotch knifes is not cool Vamp. Not cool at all.


I only see huge backlashes when it comes to Western games. JRPGs in general it either is ignored or noticed for a whooping 5 seconds before no one cares.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 mai 2010 - 01:01 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Tirigon wrote...

I wish they would release a Mass Effect Toolset (preferrably one that even I can understand^^) so we could just fix the lack of homosexual romances ourselves. It´s quite annoying that it has been cut to adapt to homophobe idiots.

Well the problem with the toolset is that it is a licensed engine and I do not think a third party game has been released with a toolset.  The only one I can think of is UT3 but that is a first party game

[tyddrwsau]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

I wish they would release a Mass Effect Toolset (preferrably one that even I can understand^^) so we could just fix the lack of homosexual romances ourselves. It´s quite annoying that it has been cut to adapt to homophobe idiots.

Well the problem with the toolset is that it is a licensed engine and I do not think a third party game has been released with a toolset.  The only one I can think of is UT3 but that is a first party game

Considering the "cinematic" design of the Mass Effect games, and in particular the full VO, user-generated content for something like romances would have to be phenomenally good to succeed at creating an immersive experience. The mods that trigger content already in the game, like the ME1 same-sex romance dialogue, are great although also disappointing because they demonstrate how close to being done the option we're all asking for became, before it was pulled.

I'd like to see them finish what they start, and provide us with the content already.

[Tirigon]

tyddrwsau wrote...

The mods that trigger content already in the game, like the ME1 same-sex romance dialogue, are great although also disappointing because they demonstrate how close to being done the option we're all asking for became, before it was pulled.

Where can you find such mods? Haven´t seen them yet.

[FataliTensei]

Miss Yuna of Atlanta wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
Seriously? Come on. Lesbians are way less threatening. And I'm not speaking for myself, just saying that is how our society views them.

I suppose you have a point. That's why nobody really raised a fuss over Final Fantasy XIII.

Very true sadly, that lesbians are viewed as less threatening. 

and I actually liked that relationship alot

Modifié par FataliTensei, 18 mai 2010 - 06:50 .

[tyddrwsau]

Tirigon wrote...

tyddrwsau wrote...

The mods that trigger content already in the game, like the ME1 same-sex romance dialogue, are great although also disappointing because they demonstrate how close to being done the option we're all asking for became, before it was pulled.

Where can you find such mods? Haven´t seen them yet.

If you're in Fight for the Love, someone posted them in one of the group discussion threads I believe: "Game Modded for M/M and F/F". I think there's also links in the earlier pages of this thread to savegames with the gender tags edited to make that dialogue appear. The YouTube videos of the content itself are linked all over.