7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

ztonkin wrote...

Really, if things weren't so taboo, then this wouldn't be an issue, but as it is, I wouldn't hold my breath for them to include same-sex romances in ME3. Even if the threads supporting it are ALMOST 300 PAGES LONG! Clearly, there isn't a minority here.

Homosexuality being taboo is new to me. Afaik by now most people have realized that sexuality is a private matter and that homosexuality is nothing "bad" but just normal.

[Eddo36]

Actually homosexuality is nothing bad. It's just not normal.

Bestiality on the other hand, is still bad. But isn't doing it with aliens considered a form of it?

Modifié par Eddo36, 27 mai 2010 - 10:03 .

[Cootie]

LiquidGrape wrote...

I believe you're making rash and shallow assumptions.
What I'm saying is that I'd be willing to boycott ME3 should BioWare choose once more to ignore what is a well-known and widely advocated issue.
That lucid enough?

I agree completely. Not to mention that it's put Bioware in a different light to me. From my point of view, it looks like they aren't as much in control of their franchises as they once were, nor as passionate to reach some level of "perfection" before release. ME-2 felt like they scraped together the pieces that worked and tossed them together in a bundle.

The lack of homosexual content is not the sole reason as to why, but it surely played a big part in making the game look unfinished.
If it's a pattern that will repeat itself, then I'll be moving away from the Bioware shelves.

My two cents.

[Eddo36]

And for me on the other hand.... it's the reason I'm moving towards the Bioware shelves.

[Cootie]

Eddo36 wrote...

And for me on the other hand.... it's the reason I'm moving towards the Bioware shelves.

*gasp*

I bet you buy your games at Gamestop, too.

[Eddo36]

No, not a fan of Gamestop ever since my pre-ordered 360 came late.

[Tirigon]

Eddo36 wrote...

Actually homosexuality is nothing bad. It's just not normal.

Bestiality on the other hand, is still bad. But isn't doing it with aliens considered a form of it?

1) Homosexuality is NOT abnormal.

2) Sex with Aliens is not bestiality - at least not with asari, turians etc... Hanar might be disputable.

3) While I, too,  personally think bestiality is a bit perverted it is not your or my place to judge.

[Eddo36]

Homosexuality is abnomal because only a small percentage do it. Nothing wrong with being abnormal.

Sex with aliens isn't bestiality? Because they are intelligent?

So let's say a dog was genetically modified (illegally in the ME universe) to be as smart as a human, and you fall in love with each other. Is it considered that?

Modifié par Eddo36, 27 mai 2010 - 10:16 .

[Cootie]

Can't say that I'm a fan of Bioware in case my homosexual content keeps arriving late/never.

Tirigon wrote...

1) Homosexuality is NOT abnormal.

2) Sex with Aliens is not bestiality - at least not with asari, turians etc... Hanar might be disputable.

3) While I, too,  personally think bestiality is a bit perverted it is not your or my place to judge.

I have to redirect you to the first page again. I think (I'm pretty sure of it) that it said that this thread would not be used to discuss homosexuality from a social perspective. You may not have begun the discussion, but really, stick to the topic, yes?

Not putting it against you personally. Some of the things you've responded to have been downright offensive in some cases, but stay light on your feet, yeah? No need for heavy stomping.

EDIT:

Eddo36 wrote...

Homosexuality is abnomal because only a small percentage do it. Nothing wrong with being abnormal.

Sex with aliens isn't bestiality? Because they are intelligent?

So
let's say a dog was genetically modified (illegally in the ME universe)
to be as smart as a human, and you fall in love with each other. Is it
considered that?

That goes for you too, methinks.

Modifié par Cootie, 27 mai 2010 - 10:22 .

[Tirigon]

Eddo36 wrote...

Homosexuality is abnomal because only a small percentage do it. Nothing wrong with being abnormal.

Sex with aliens isn't bestiality? Because they are intelligent?

So let's say a dog was genetically modified (illegally in the ME universe) to be as smart as a human, and you fall in love with each other. Is it considered that?

Difficult to say. If the dog´s intellectual level and personality equals a human, shouldn´t he have equal rights then, even if he has a dog´s body?

Anyhow, it is best to drop this and let the dog and his partner decide. It is not my concern what other people or dogs do in their free-time, and it shouldn´t be yours either.

[Gundar3]

slimgrin wrote...



Boy, I really don't think ME2 is a hodge podge bundled together. Tied for the second highest Metacritic of all time, and better than ME1 imo.

I want Bioware to continue to push the envelope as well, in a variety of social issues, not just homosexuality. I just don't know if it will happen with such a well established and popular title.

Quick question because I find this an intersting view point:  Why would you want Bioware, a company devoted to entertainment to, to push social issus and their own idea of what is right?  What gives their argumentation of such issues any authority?  Do you deem them qualified to argue adaqutely on behalf of issues on philosophy/ metaphysics/ and ethics?

Also, how do you want the "envelope" to be pushed?  For what purpose?  For greater equality?

The reason Im asking you these questions is because your post is one of the few in this entire thread that Ive seen that isn't "because I feel that way"/ "I know so and so"/ or "this is my team, which I wont change". 

[Tirigon]

Cootie wrote...

I think (I'm pretty sure of it) that it said that this thread would not be used to discuss homosexuality from a social perspective. You may not have begun the discussion, but really, stick to the topic, yes?

Not putting it against you personally. Some of the things you've responded to have been downright offensive in some cases, but stay light on your feet, yeah? No need for heavy stomping.

It is difficult, however, to make our position clear if others respond by questioning sexual freedom in general.

Nevertheless, I guess you are right, and if Eddo or someone else wishes to continue this please PM me.

[EmmEmm]

Eddo36, the problem with bestiality is exactly that. Animals can't give consent in the legal sense, since they are not intelligent enough to commune consent. Intelligent aliens however CAN give consent. Simple as that.



Of course there is that whole taboo and yucky thing too with beastly ones



As for homosexuality, it IS one reason i would buy a game, or even NOT buy a game. I am hesitant to play ME2, simply because there is no same sex romance option. That annoyed me to no end, and showed that they actually regressed from ME1. Not a good thing.



Let me reverse a phrase i have seen many homophobes use on here: Why would i want to be forced to play as a STRAIGHT character?



I don't. I want choices. Just look at all the additional gay mods for Dragon Age, even though there was already one romance for each included people still want more! And the mods are also high quality, not just cobbled together crap.



The reason i will probably still play ME2 is that after all i don't have to pursue the straight relationships either, but of course a lot of atmosphere will be missing, That and the hope that some update or DLC may still include the option after all.

[Cootie]

Darn you, EmmEmm, I was JUST thinking the exact same thing right before you posted it. And since it's late at night here, it made the atmosphere a little bit creepy.

Nonetheless, good points.

[Tirigon]

Gundar3 wrote...

Quick question because I find this an intersting view point:  Why would you want Bioware, a company devoted to entertainment to, to push social issus and their own idea of what is right?  What gives their argumentation of such issues any authority?  Do you deem them qualified to argue adaqutely on behalf of issues on philosophy/ metaphysics/ and ethics?

How is giving the player as much freedom as possible "pushing social issues"?

It can, in the case of Same-Sex romances, surely be interpreted that way. But it is not the reason they should include it.

Mass Effect claims to be an RPG, at least partly, and Chris Prestley once said (I even linked to the post some pages ago) that every player is to create his / her own Shepard.

To achieve this goal and to allow the player as much roleplaying as possible it is important to give the player choices, especially with regard to the romances. It limits the player´s freedom severely to be limited to heterosexual or no relationships.






Of course I am in favor of sexual freedom in society, but that is not the reason I want Same-Sex romances in ME; I want them to roleplay as I wish, not to prove others homosexuality is ok.

Modifié par Tirigon, 27 mai 2010 - 10:33 .

[EmmEmm]

Cootie, lol, great minds think alike i guess

[Gundar3]

EmmEmm, what about the moral agent involved with sexuality? You agree that there are more boundaries between the act of sex itself and consent yes? Like in the bestiality example, what if it was found out that a certain animal was in fact rational and capable of truly discerning what the act of sex was, would a human having sex with it become acceptable if the animal instigated it?



My point is that clearly there is more to consider about the act of sex than legal consent.

[Eddo36]

EmmEmm wrote...


Let me reverse a phrase i have seen many homophobes use on here: Why would i want to be forced to play as a STRAIGHT character? 

Well, IMHO, nobody is forced to do anything because they aren't forced to play the game, no?

[Tirigon]

Eddo36 wrote...


Well, IMHO, nobody is forced to do anything because they aren't forced to play the game, no?

Then we can have homosexual romances because homophobes aren´t forced to play the game. Good point.

[Eddo36]

I really don't see the point in that post, or if there was even a point in it, but anyways letting it go....



Back on topic of my point in my previous post, people shouldn't be blaming BioWare for "forcing" them to do anything.

[Gundar3]

Tirigon wrote...

Gundar3 wrote...

Quick question because I find this an intersting view point:  Why would you want Bioware, a company devoted to entertainment to, to push social issus and their own idea of what is right?  What gives their argumentation of such issues any authority?  Do you deem them qualified to argue adaqutely on behalf of issues on philosophy/ metaphysics/ and ethics?

How is giving the player as much freedom as possible "pushing social issues"?

It can, in the case of Same-Sex romances, surely be interpreted that way. But it is not the reason they should include it.

Mass Effect claims to be an RPG, at least partly, and Chris Prestley once said (I even linked to the post some pages ago) that every player is to create his / her own Shepard.

To achieve this goal and to allow the player as much roleplaying as possible it is important to give the player choices, especially with regard to the romances. It limits the player´s freedom severely to be limited to heterosexual or no relationships.






Of course I am in favor of sexual freedom in society, but that is not the reason I want Same-Sex romances in ME; I want them to roleplay as I wish, not to prove others homosexuality is ok.

Please allow me to clarify, the "pushing the social envelop" was in regards to Slimm saying that, that was the idea he or she wished Bioware to do.  My point was that Bioware already force feeds their attempt at philosophy by means of renegade and paragon responses.  They are telling the player: "this is what the good/bad guy does".  This is strikingly evident with Legions loyalty mission.

I guess before I go any further, Ill go ahead and clarify my position:

(Ill be flamed or ignoreed, but thats fine, if youll notice I dont come here much)

There is nothing inherantly wrong with freedom in a game.  Its certainly why I prefer RPGs to others.  However, In real life I believe that all people are bound to natural and moral law regardless of whether or not they accept it or know it.  It is acting WITHIN those boundries that people discover their true freedom and do not diminish the freedom of others.  Therefore, simply having a choice does not give the person real freedom if that makes sense.  Just because you can doesnt mean you should.

The technical reasons why I dont think homosexuality should be in Mass Effect is because of how Bioware specifically handles sexuality in general.  Its clear that they, and increasingly in society,  view tsex as a simple physical act betwen two consenting adults.  Its really about pleasure, and nothing more.  Love has been reduced to that really nice feeling that sometimes goes with having sex.

It is because I, as a 24 year old male who feels that I can discern between good and evil/ truth and injustice because of a rightly guided conscience (I understand how that sounds arrogant) view that we should not present all possible choices to people who are not yet ready or unwilling to understand the many facets of a persons sexuality that exist.  Children who are in  (or barely out of) high school fall under this category.  The ESRB can issue all the ratings it wants, kids play these games, so all the ESRB really does is give a company a legal shield to use and dish out whatever message they have.  Also, sxuality and other issues with heavy moral weight should be discovered and fostered within an individuals mind specifically within their own family.  These are indiviaual and family matters that should stay there and not be forced by society.  What that means is that in presenting someone with the option of a homosexual act and treating it as just another option, you are telling the player that it is perfectly acceptable when that player should really be making their own opinion.

RPGs are fantastic specifically because they allow the player to operate within a story and craft a unique story about a character for themself.  The thing is, all actions have a moral weight so while you and I may be able to say "playing as a morally bankrupt Renegade is hella fun", that means that we already know that there are certain actions the Renegade makes that are objctively bad.  We simply know the difference, which many kids and some adults do not.

These are my viewpoints.  I wont get into the more technical things like re-writing characters or plot, bcause most of thse are subjective anyway.

This will be my only post on the matter.  I simply wanted to state my views and have some questions answered.  If people are really curious I guess they could send me a pm. 

[Eddo36]

^ agreed. Don't let flames hold you back from any mature discussion. Flames only show immaturity.

[Eddo36]

The problem here is because people are bashing BioWare for supposedly "forcing" them to do something (having straight relationship or whatever), saying they'll boycott, never play ME, etc. I mean if they were going to boycott, can't they do it already without making posts threatening that here? Geez.

Modifié par Eddo36, 27 mai 2010 - 11:59 .