7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Cootie]

Just to clarify if the clarification is crystal clear to me.

Did you, sir Gundar the third, mean to say that the age rating is really
just a legal shield which allows them to get whatever graphical content
across without anyone complaining and that it might influence
individuals who do not yet have a proper understanding of things?
Because, well, let's face it. I bet most of the ME-audience aren't eighteen yet.

And from what I got from your post, I was also able to piece together that
you do not have anything against homosexuality (or at least it's not
relevant), but you are afraid of how Bioware handles the issue and they
might send the whole sex-message across a little different, thus
disturbing the minds of our youth.

If that's the case, I agree
with you to some degree. At least I understand what you're getting at.
Bioware's "romance"-options tend to just be a minigame and the result
is a secks-cutscene. Hooray.
There are different ways to show affection, which I think personally would've suited the setting a bit more.

On the other hand, it's not really Bioware's job to cater to the idiotic
masses just in case someone misinterprets things. If we were always
taking baby steps, we wouldn't go very far very quickly, would we?
Still, I would've loved some non-seckshual ******-non-seckshuality. But I don't
think that Bioware needs to censor the games. But being just a bit more
tasteful wouldn't hurt.

Edit: I dislike the way these forums handle my posts sometimes.

Modifié par Cootie, 28 mai 2010 - 12:01 .

[Eddo36]

I say the solution is to make Shepard canon. After they made Revan male in KOTOR, all the fighting over his gender ceased.

Oh wait, that's already going to happen. Am looking forward to the ME movie. Hope they find a good actor for Shepard.

Modifié par Eddo36, 28 mai 2010 - 12:05 .

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I don't get what offends people so much about this topic really. Your playthrough is different than everyone else's playthrough, that's the joy of most Bioware games. If the option is there for a same sex romance, and the player isn't into that kind of thing, turn it down or don't pursue it! Just like real life, pretty basic, even more simple really. I mean damn...it's not like any Bioware games have characters sexually assaulting yours or preaching about ethics or religion unless it's entirely made up fictional jargon that you can ignore. Mostly they even give you the option to kick the offending character out of your "party" or skip over them entirely. I'm glad Bioware staff doesn't take anyone's opinions in this thread seriously.

[LiquidGrape]

Eddo36 wrote...

The problem here is because people are bashing BioWare for supposedly "forcing" them to do something (having straight relationship or whatever), saying they'll boycott, never play ME, etc. I mean if they were going to boycott, can't they do it already without making posts threatening that here? Geez.

So, your perception of customer feedback is blind approval?
We're merely being sincere about something we consider an issue; whereas you seem to think we should just shut up and be on our way.

And I cannot recall any claims that anybody is "forced" to engage in any kind of romance. What is a fact, however, is that there are no options available for those who are of a certain orientation. Thus, the vehement display of heteronormative relationships can be a tad jarring.

[Eddo36]

Hold the misconception. I didn't say you should shut up and go on your way. I believed you did? Not word-for-word, but with the threatening of boycott. I was merely wondering if it would keep true to the word.

Modifié par Eddo36, 28 mai 2010 - 12:25 .

[Eddo36]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

I'm glad Bioware staff doesn't take anyone's opinions in this thread seriously.

Me too. Very glad. I won't speak for them, but if I was in their shoes and people tell me how to do my job which I'm already successful in doing, I would need a punching bag.

[Eddo36]

"Video games deserve the same praise a fine movie, a novel, or even a painting gets."

No they don't deserve the same praise. They deserve much more.

"Apparently, their makers need encouragement as well, to continue to take the medium seriously."

I'm not speaking about you, but with previous posters on this thread, threats of boycotts are hardly encouragement.

Modifié par Eddo36, 28 mai 2010 - 12:29 .

[Eddo36]

Yes I agree, they have every right to do what they want with their game. Whether they want to or not is their choice.

[Eddo36]

Honestly, FPS games don't have this issue that RPG does. I play FPS, but now I'm liking RPG for it's complex mechanisms. Still, I prefer action and choices more than dating simulation in this particular game.

[ElitePinecone]

This is an interesting discussion.



Eddo, I was reading your posts a few pages back in this thread where (to me) your main argument against homosexuality in Mass Effect was that it would introduce controversial content into the game which would then hurt sales.



So far, if I remember correctly, within two Mass Effect games (and the books) we've been witness to, or participated in: murder, torture, genocide, ethnic cleansing, theft, drug taking, alcoholism, abuse of power by both police and politicians, genetic engineering of babies and war. And that's just off the top of my head.



Compared to the controversy that's already been surrounding Mass Effect - controversy even about heterosexual/alien romances - the inclusion of consensual same-sex romances would hardly be shocking news. Unless people somehow rate genocide as less morally repugnant than homosexuality?



This isn't meant to be a personal attack, I'm just interested as to why you don't think s/s romances should be included.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Eddo36 wrote...

I say the solution is to make Shepard canon. After they made Revan male in KOTOR, all the fighting over his gender ceased.

Oh wait, that's already going to happen. Am looking forward to the ME movie. Hope they find a good actor for Shepard.

Mmm. I love the smell of priviledge in the morning.

I notice that a lot of the arguments against inclusion of m/m romance content (noticeably, no problem with the extant f/f in ME1 or 2) seem to be 'the majority don't want it/wouldn't play it' (often a thinly veiled 'I don't want it/wouldn't play it'). To which I have to ask - which majority would that be? Straight male gamers? Those are holding on to the term 'majority' by a slim margin. Also, there are quite a lot of said straight male gamers who simply don't care about the inclusion of m/m romances - they might not ask for or explore such an option in game, but they're not opposed to including it. Regardless, they're not 'the community' anymore, as if they ever were.

Straight women make up quite a large percentage of gamers, and we tend to get pretty frakking resentful of the notion (repeatedly put forward in various places, not just on these forums) that our preferences - whatever they might be - are somehow supposed to be sublimated to the preferences of males. Because we're 'more flexible/more open-minded,' or some other euphemism that's usually meant to be read as 'you're used to not getting what you want, so quit asking for stuff that makes some of us uncomfortable because men are the ones who should be catered to.' We get tired of objectifying portrayals of women, character models that emphasize boobs and ass, and a lack of interesting characters to play and/or interact with. We also, like so many gamers, enjoy being able to see characters who resemble us to some degree, at least some of the time - which is why games with customisable PCs offer female models as well as male.

Heaven forfend we even talk about gay gamers and what they might prefer in a game - they apparently should just get used to never seeing gay protagonists, or being able to see their character engage in a s/s LI because they're such as small proportion of the gaming community. Unless they're turned on by two chicks, because the only legitimate s/s relationships that should be portrayed are ones that straight men like to look at, amirite? (There is admittedly a whole other discussion that could and should be had about the value of recognizing the interests and wants of GLBTQ gamers as legitimate in themselves, as opposed to acknowledging them because some straights would enjoy seeing them as well. Though, being a cisgender straight chick, I also feel compelled to point out the double standard in catering to straight men who enjoy seeing f/f but not to straight women who enjoy seeing m/m.)

Odds are very good that the gaming companies who manage to thrive into the future are the ones that learn to embrace as many preferences of their customer base as possible, where feasible; total invisibility of those community members in the games themselves is rapidly becoming an unviable option. Straight males who have a problem seeing - or, more apropos to this thread, even hearing about someone else seeing man-on-man - in the games they play? Get used to the idea that you're in the minority when the whole of the community is taken into account. The rest of us are talking now, and if you don't like it, well...

I'm sure there's a place out there where you can all get together and just talk about how much better everything was when those people who wanted different things than you just shut up and took what you (by virtue of being the only acknowledged demographic) gave them. But it's not here.

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 28 mai 2010 - 01:11 .

[Eddo36]

I only was stating that countries might ban the sale of the game, like Singapore did. I wasn't talking about individuals boycott.

And killing is not worse than sex. According to the public eye. Wonder why Adult-rated films aren't rated that way because of killing, but because sex? Don't look at me, I'm not saying I agree with it. That's just the way it is here.

Modifié par Eddo36, 28 mai 2010 - 01:12 .

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Eddo36 wrote...

I only was stating that countries might ban the sale of the game, like Singapore did. I wasn't talking about individuals boycott.

And killing is not worse than sex. According to the public eye. Wonder why Adult-rated films aren't rated that way because of killing, but because sex? Don't look at me, I'm not saying I agree with it. That's just the way it is here.

If you don't agree with it, then challenge it. Change it. Contest the notion that seeing two game characters that represent consenting adults engaged in romantic dialogue/kissing/hugging/heavy petting or even sex (straight, gay, or bi) is somehow worse than seeing a character the player directly controls punching a reporter in the face.

[Eddo36]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

I say the solution is to make Shepard canon. After they made Revan male in KOTOR, all the fighting over his gender ceased.

Oh wait, that's already going to happen. Am looking forward to the ME movie. Hope they find a good actor for Shepard.

Mmm. I love the smell of priviledge in the morning.

I notice that a lot of the arguments against inclusion of m/m romance content (noticeably, no problem with the extant f/f in ME1 or 2) seem to be 'the majority don't want it/wouldn't play it' (often a thinly veiled 'I don't want it/wouldn't play it'). To which I have to ask - which majority would that be? Straight male gamers? Those are holding on to the term 'majority' by a slim margin. Also, there are quite a lot of said straight male gamers who simply don't care about the inclusion of m/m romances - they might not ask for or explore such an option in game, but they're not opposed to including it. Regardless, they're not 'the community' anymore, as if they ever were.

Straight women make up quite a large percentage of gamers, and we tend to get pretty frakking resentful of the notion (repeatedly put forward in various places, not just on these forums) that our preferences - whatever they might be - are somehow supposed to be sublimated to the preferences of males. Because we're 'more flexible/more open-minded,' or some other euphemism that's usually meant to be read as 'you're used to not getting what you want, so quit asking for stuff that makes some of us uncomfortable because men are the ones who should be catered to.' We get tired of objectifying portrayals of women, character models that emphasize boobs and ass, and a lack of interesting characters to play and/or interact with. We also, like so many gamers, enjoy being able to see characters who resemble us to some degree, at least some of the time - which is why games with customisable PCs offer female models as well as male.

Heaven forfend we even talk about gay gamers and what they might prefer in a game - they apparently should just get used to never seeing gay protagonists, or being able to see their character engage in a s/s LI because they're such as small proportion of the gaming community. Unless they're turned on by two chicks, because the only legitimate s/s relationships that should be portrayed are ones that straight men like to look at, amirite? (There is admittedly a whole other discussion that could and should be had about the value of recognizing the interests and wants of GLBTQ gamers as legitimate in themselves, as opposed to acknowledging them because some straights would enjoy seeing them as well. Though, being a cisgender straight chick, I also feel compelled to point out the double standard in catering to straight men who enjoy seeing f/f but not to straight women who enjoy seeing m/m.)

Odds are very good that the gaming companies who manage to thrive into the future are the ones that learn to embrace as many preferences of their customer base as possible, where feasible; total invisibility of those community members in the games themselves is rapidly becoming an unviable option. Straight males who have a problem seeing - or, more apropos to this thread, even hearing about someone else seeing man-on-man - in the games they play? Get used to the idea that you're in the minority when the whole of the community is taken into account. The rest of us are talking now, and if you don't like it, well...

I'm sure there's a place out there where you can all get together and just talk about how much better everything was when those people who wanted different things than you just shut up and took what you (by virtue of being the only acknowledged demographic) gave them. But it's not here.

Straight males who find homosexuals repulsive by far aren't in the minority. I'm not saying I'm against M/M romance, hope no one gets me wrong. I only recently visitted this thread and it's the people who are for M/M relationships saying that they will boycott if it's not included (at least 3 I was posting with in the previous couple pages)

Satisfy as many as possible, but you can't satisfy everyone. Just make the right people happy to get the profits rolling in. Homosexuals aren't the majority, not trying to be biased, just fact.

[Eddo36]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

I only was stating that countries might ban the sale of the game, like Singapore did. I wasn't talking about individuals boycott.

And killing is not worse than sex. According to the public eye. Wonder why Adult-rated films aren't rated that way because of killing, but because sex? Don't look at me, I'm not saying I agree with it. That's just the way it is here.

If you don't agree with it, then challenge it. Change it. Contest the notion that seeing two game characters that represent consenting adults engaged in romantic dialogue/kissing/hugging/heavy petting or even sex (straight, gay, or bi) is somehow worse than seeing a character the player directly controls punching a reporter in the face.

Actually I would challenge it if I cared about it. It doesn't affect me, I got my own battles to fight, not others.

[Eddo36]

edit: double post

Modifié par Eddo36, 28 mai 2010 - 01:21 .

[Eddo36]

As I stated, I'm more focused on the action and decisions. I really think the dev's time would be better spent not making this into a dating sim. It's just my opinion, I like Mass Effect for other things than romance.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

FFS, what the hell is with the belittling 'dating sim' accusations? ME's not accused of being a shopping simulator just because it's got a couple of options to buy things in stores, or a friendship/therapy simulator just because it's got sidequests where you can get to know your crew better and help them work through some personal issues. Romancing crew members through optional dialogue does not make for a 'dating sim,' and neither does arguing for better writing or more options on those side quests.

The next time someone drags out that chestnut, I'm going to **** about how my interpersonal character- and dialogue-driven sci-fi RPG isn't supposed to be a shooting simulator. I can see how well it would go over right now, in my mind. <_<

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 28 mai 2010 - 01:36 .

[Eddo36]

No it doesn't, just saying I wish they use their payroll time instead to make a way to remove helmets.

[Charsen]

i don't want it to be a fashion sim, so removing helmets doesn't matter to me.

[Eddo36]

Adding another DLC quest for Cerberus Network? Or should I mention 100 other things that seem more important to gameplay.

Modifié par Eddo36, 28 mai 2010 - 01:37 .