7455 réponses à ce sujet

[PyroFreak301]

danman2424 wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

A characters sexual preference doesn't have to change their character at all. We wont see Garrus acting like Zevran or exhibit any other stereotyped gay behaviours. He'll still be the same Garrus, so it wont affect the story in the slightest.

A lot of your opinions seem to be based on your distain of gay behaviours or homosexuality in general. You seem to be in the minority on these boards when you see homosexuality as a trait to be laughed at.

I came into this thread knowing, that in here, my opinions would be in the minority.

That's fine, we're obviously interested enough in your opinion to bother replying. What I dont understand it how you can keep claiming it would make a mockery of characters based on nothing more than your personal opinions.

Me saying "there shouldn't be any alien romance at all because it makes a mockery of the game" carries no less weight than what you're saying. Am I in a position to seriously refute any points based on my opinion alone (without any facts to back it up)? Of course not.

Quick scenario for you: 
You're doing your round trip of the ship to progress the story with each character. While talking to Garrus, you notice a flirty option on the dialogue wheel alongside the standard options... What would you do?

Your saying "alien romances makes a mockery of the game" would carry less weight, because the game already contains alien romances. they didn't have to go back and change anything to appease a small subset of people.

As for your last question. the first thing i'd do is make a mental note of my last save and make sure not to erase it, then upon choosing it and witnessing what would undeniably be the most ridiculous, awkward, and unintentionally comical exchange in Mass Effect 2, I would proceed to tell my Mass Effect-playing friends about it. Chances are they would've already seen it and told me about it or heard about it on some forum though.

Alien sex is still more comical than gay sex, and I hardly see the forums flooded people finding that gamebreakingly hilarious. Same with DA:O; the forums should have been flooded with outrage if your comical view of homosexuality was shared by enough people. Yet it wasn't?

For the noting of the save point, you pretty much get a laugh from the game to share with your friends and carry on as normal after it's stopped being funny? How is this a bad thing? Surely it just makes the game more enjoyable for you.

[Lightice_av]

I would care about actual gay males over the preemptive drooling of fangirls.

If this were a debate about ethics, I would probably agree with you. However, if the drooling fangirls are the ones to make the option viable for the gay males, then so be it. This is far more a commercial issue than ethical one; there has to be demand for an option for Bioware to implement it in the game. I suspect that the women playing MShep are a larger group than the gay men in playing this game.

[DaeJi]

Collider wrote...
Not a problem with it. Actually hoping it so gay players can finally get what they want. Just don't retcon. That's all. Of course, the possibility (as it subjectively seems) of retconning is a fortunate low.

The possibility of retconning anything in Mass Effect 2 is non-existant; they could remake the entire game with a whole new story and new characters and it would not be a retcon. Until the game of Mass Effect 2 is complete, and it's not, retconing isn't a concern.

Also, none of us know the odds of any kind of action BioWare may or may not take.

[ARK of ILKS]

The ultimate reason there are no gay males in the ME universe.

2156: Gays are permitted to join the army openly

First contact war breaks out ( Turians hate homosexuality)

The sad end of an entire subrace

Modifié par ARK of ILKS, 27 février 2010 - 02:08 .

[PyroFreak301]

ARK of ILKS wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

ARK of ILKS wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

For the record, Ryzaki is one of the ones I'm talking about when I talk about the girls that want it just to get their rocks off. She doesn't really care about the homosexuals in this issue. At least not nearly as much as she cares about satisfying her own itch.

This is according to her own reasoning for coming in defense of "man on man action" in past threads. She's exactly the wrong type of person that needs to be fighting this issue.

A person's reason for wanting this content doesn't matter; my biggest reason is because I think it will make the game more fun.

Fun for some. I personally dont want Kaiden coming out of the closet into me ME3.

What if it was you that had to initiate the romance?
What if Kaiden didn't even so much as hint at it without a green-light from Shepard?
What if it was colour coded on the dialoge wheel so you couldn't accidently find yourself in a relationship with Kaiden?
What if it was DLC content so you didn't have to download it?

There are so many ways to make it so it doesn't affect those who don't want to see it. Would you be okay with it if you could easily avoid it completely?

PROOF: Liara didnt work out like that. She came to me, not the other way around.

AGREEMENT: I don't like the way Bioware forces romance in the dialogues either. I wouldn't like it either if it was forced upon me, but the idea of this thread is to share ideas on how to implement without imposing.

[Collider]

DaeJi wrote...
The possibility of retconning anything in Mass Effect 2 is non-existant; they could remake the entire game with a whole new story and new characters and it would not be a retcon.

No one is suggesting that the game be completely remade, so I don't see the point of saying that.

Until the game of Mass Effect 2 is complete, and it's not, retconing isn't a concern.

Them altering the romances is retconning. But it's pretty clear you probably won't ever agree with me.

Also, none of us know the odds of any kind of action BioWare may or may not take.

Which is what I said.

[danman2424]

Lightice_av wrote...

I would care about actual gay males over the preemptive drooling of fangirls.

If this were a debate about ethics, I would probably agree with you. However, if the drooling fangirls are the ones to make the option viable for the gay males, then so be it. This is far more a commercial issue than ethical one; there has to be demand for an option for Bioware to implement it in the game. I suspect that the women playing MShep are a larger group than the gay men in playing this game.

So you support the retconning of established characters for purposes of ..... titillation? 

[ARK of ILKS]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

ARK of ILKS wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

ARK of ILKS wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

For the record, Ryzaki is one of the ones I'm talking about when I talk about the girls that want it just to get their rocks off. She doesn't really care about the homosexuals in this issue. At least not nearly as much as she cares about satisfying her own itch.

This is according to her own reasoning for coming in defense of "man on man action" in past threads. She's exactly the wrong type of person that needs to be fighting this issue.

A person's reason for wanting this content doesn't matter; my biggest reason is because I think it will make the game more fun.

Fun for some. I personally dont want Kaiden coming out of the closet into me ME3.

What if it was you that had to initiate the romance?
What if Kaiden didn't even so much as hint at it without a green-light from Shepard?
What if it was colour coded on the dialoge wheel so you couldn't accidently find yourself in a relationship with Kaiden?
What if it was DLC content so you didn't have to download it?

There are so many ways to make it so it doesn't affect those who don't want to see it. Would you be okay with it if you could easily avoid it completely?

PROOF: Liara didnt work out like that. She came to me, not the other way around.

AGREEMENT: I don't like the way Bioware forces romance in the dialogues either. I wouldn't like it either if it was forced upon me, but the idea of this thread is to share ideas on how to implement without imposing.

AGREED

[DaeJi]

Collider wrote...
Them altering the romances is retconning. But it's pretty clear you probably won't ever agree with me.

How? Mass Effect 2 is not complete. The story is not complete. Until it is (by way of Mass Effect 3 or an expansion), how is any alteration to it a retcon?

[Ninja Mage]

It's not retconning it's re-programming certain characters to be how they were originally written and recorded to be

[PyroFreak301]

Collider, just out of interest, would you consider adding romances to those that havn't clearly stated their sexual preference retconing?

[DaeJi]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

Collider, just out of interest, would you consider adding romances to those that havn't clearly stated their sexual preference retconing?

The implication here is also true. Unless a fictional character comes out and says "I am straight," then there is room to change them. Unlike real people, fictional characters have that freedom; Tali of a sudden likes Shepard. Never once did she mention it in the first game, but there it is. No fictional character is ever set in stone; changes can and are made to them to make the story better.

[Collider]

Lightice_av wrote...

If this were a debate about ethics, I would probably agree with you.

However, if the drooling fangirls are the ones to make the option viable for the gay males, then so be it.

As if we could know this. Seems most female players are content even with what they already have, which includes a male alien tailored specifically for female players. As well as Garrus, who was popular among female players as well.

This is far more a commercial issue than ethical one;

I did not specifically make the issue a commercial issue or an ethical one. Whether it constitutes as commercial or ethical, and in what amounts, is subjective.

there has to be demand for an option for Bioware to implement it in the game.

Among the players? False. There does not have to be a demand. Of course Bioware has implemented things that the fans did not specifically ask for - they are more knowledgable about the game industry and the process of creating games than virtually all of the players.

I suspect that the women playing MShep are a larger group than the gay men in playing this game.

Suspect. Even then, the women - most of which are probably heterosexual or bisexual - have already got their romances in ample supply. Not that they have the same amount of as heterosexual/bisexual males, but still.

[ARK of ILKS]

Ninja Mage wrote...



It's not retconning it's re-programming certain characters to be how they were originally written and recorded to be

Good to see ya again Mage.

I agree completaly, re-writing the geth was bad enough, doing it to characters in hopes of personal pleasures is even worse.

Imagine Joker hitting on a maleShep every time he goes to the cockpit.

And making jokes about cockpits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Collider]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

Collider, just out of interest, would you consider adding romances to those that havn't clearly stated their sexual preference retconing?

You'd be hard pressed - if not impossible - to find any character within Mass Effect (games) that outright and plainly said "I'm gay/straight/bisexual."

[Lightice_av]

So you support the retconning of established characters for purposes of ..... titillation?

I support adding full same-sex options, whether by widening the range of existing characters (easy and cheap) or adding new ones (hard and expensive) for the sake of fairness and adding a wider variety of options for people to enjoy for any reason of their choosing. Why would it matter why they want the option?

Personally, my main Shepard is female although I'm a guy. I didn't choose her because "lesbians are hawt" but because I prefer her voice actor, and find her slightly less clichéd a character than her counterpart. A good romance option gives her more depth and character, and F/F feels less awkward for me than hitting on male characters with my FShep. I'm sure that plenty of ladies are in an opposite situation of mine, and would also deserve a choice that suits them.

[ARK of ILKS]

Could Mordin be gay?



His 50 and no known direct family.



HIS NEPHEW DOESNT COUNT..... or does he?

[DaeJi]

ARK of ILKS wrote...


Good to see ya again Mage.

I agree completaly, re-writing the geth was bad enough, doing it to characters in hopes of personal pleasures is even worse.

Imagine Joker hitting on a maleShep every time he goes to the cockpit.

And making jokes about cockpits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reprogramming any characters to include same sex romances is a developer choice, not a gameplay one; in the game, you are Shepard discussing the ethics of rewriting a race of basically people. However, in the real world these characters are not real and thus BioWare is free to alter them as they see fit.

[ARK of ILKS]

ARK of ILKS wrote...

Could Mordin be gay?

His 50 and no known direct family.

HIS NEPHEW DOESNT COUNT..... or does he?

EDI: that was a joke Shepard.

[DaeJi]

Collider wrote...

You'd be hard pressed - if not impossible - to find any character within Mass Effect (games) that outright and plainly said "I'm gay/straight/bisexual."

And since that, BioWare is free to alter them without retconing anything about them. If retconning were even possible in an unfinished story.

[ARK of ILKS]

DaeJi wrote...

ARK of ILKS wrote...


Good to see ya again Mage.

I agree completaly, re-writing the geth was bad enough, doing it to characters in hopes of personal pleasures is even worse.

Imagine Joker hitting on a maleShep every time he goes to the cockpit.

And making jokes about cockpits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reprogramming any characters to include same sex romances is a developer choice, not a gameplay one; in the game, you are Shepard discussing the ethics of rewriting a race of basically people. However, in the real world these characters are not real and thus BioWare is free to alter them as they see fit.

I 100%.... dont agree.

[Collider]

DaeJi wrote...
Mass Effect 2 is not complete.

Tell that to the developers. I'm sure they'd love to hear that they sent out an unfinished product. DLC and patches add or modify content, it does not mean that Mass Effect is "incomplete." It's rather insulting to say so.

how is any alteration to it a retcon?

Altering Jacob during the conversation after his loyalty mission to say male shepard has a hot body is retconning.

[danman2424]

PyroFreak301 wrote...


Alien sex is still more comical than gay sex

I'm very confident that most would disagree with that.

As for the Garrus thing, no, it wouldn't make the game more enjoyable. The game would begin to lose credibility at that moment as would Garrus's character. I would gladly trade a few moments of hilarity for the credibility of the franchise and one of my favorite characters.

[ARK of ILKS]

DaeJi wrote...

Collider wrote...

You'd be hard pressed - if not impossible - to find any character within Mass Effect (games) that outright and plainly said "I'm gay/straight/bisexual."

And since that, BioWare is free to alter them without retconing anything about them. If retconning were even possible in an unfinished story.

They should do that with up to now minor characters, not currently stated MAIN characters.

[PyroFreak301]

Collider wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

Collider, just out of interest, would you consider adding romances to those that havn't clearly stated their sexual preference retconing?

You'd be hard pressed - if not impossible - to find any character within Mass Effect (games) that outright and plainly said "I'm gay/straight/bisexual."

Surely you'd be just as hard pressed to claim retconing then? Without things being said outright, no characters are set in stone... nothing's technically being changed apart from your interpretation of the original conversation, which of course is subjective.