7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Lightice_av]

The game would begin to lose credibility at that moment as would Garrus's character.

You still haven't explained just how would this happen. Did Dragon Age lose all credibility? Doesn't look like it to me.

[DaeJi]

Collider wrote...
Tell that to the developers. I'm sure they'd love to hear that they sent out an unfinished product. DLC and patches add or modify content, it does not mean that Mass Effect is "incomplete." It's rather insulting to say so.

Adding DLC content shows that the game is not complete. If it were, why the need to add the content? Not to mention the whole new squadmember that is not yet released. Nor am I being insulting; the reality of it is that Mass Effect 2 is a work in progress. That is not a bad thing, it means that BioWare can make it better.

Altering Jacob during the conversation after his loyalty mission to say male shepard has a hot body is retconning.

Until Mass Effect 3 or an expansion comes out, Jacob's story for Mass Effect 2 is not finished.

[Ninja Mage]

danman2424 wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...


Alien sex is still more comical than gay sex

I'm very confident that most would disagree with that.

As for the Garrus thing, no, it wouldn't make the game more enjoyable. The game would begin to lose credibility at that moment as would Garrus's character. I would gladly trade a few moments of hilarity for the credibility of the franchise and one of my favorite characters.

That's just your personal opinion. Garrus being gay would strengthen his character to me, and not hurt the credibility of the game at all. Besides, if the option is there, it doesn't mean YOU have to choose it, that's why it's a romantic dialogue choice. No one is forcing this on you, so please stop acting like you would have to have comical gay sex with Garrus.

Modifié par Ninja Mage, 27 février 2010 - 02:23 .

[ARK of ILKS]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

Collider wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

Collider, just out of interest, would you consider adding romances to those that havn't clearly stated their sexual preference retconing?

You'd be hard pressed - if not impossible - to find any character within Mass Effect (games) that outright and plainly said "I'm gay/straight/bisexual."

Surely you'd be just as hard pressed to claim retconing then? Without things being said outright, no characters are set in stone... nothing's technically being changed apart from your interpretation of the original conversation, which of course is subjective.

Exactly. I dont run around yelling: IM HETEROSEXUAL, DEAL WITH IT KARMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ninja Mage]

The only person to say they were gay was Liara I believe, or that she liked ''females''

[Ryzaki]

Lightice_av wrote...

So you support the retconning of established characters for purposes of ..... titillation?

I support adding full same-sex options, whether by widening the range of existing characters (easy and cheap) or adding new ones (hard and expensive) for the sake of fairness and adding a wider variety of options for people to enjoy for any reason of their choosing. Why would it matter why they want the option?
Personally, my main Shepard is female although I'm a guy. I didn't choose her because "lesbians are hawt" but because I prefer her voice actor, and find her slightly less clichéd a character than her counterpart. A good romance option gives her more depth and character, and F/F feels less awkward for me than hitting on male characters with my FShep. I'm sure that plenty of ladies are in an opposite situation of mine, and would also deserve a choice that suits them.

Replace female with Male and her with his and you pretty much have my situation.

I don't like Hale's voice.

And yeah the flirting feels less awkward to me too.

<3 Yay *huggles* Thanks for saying what I meant to say but far better.

Also: Heavy Rain...OMG I just saw one of the endings and. Its AMAZING. Best storyline in a video game (IMO) EVA! Whatever awards it gets it deserves!!!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 février 2010 - 02:24 .

[ARK of ILKS]

Ninja Mage wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...


Alien sex is still more comical than gay sex

I'm very confident that most would disagree with that.

As for the Garrus thing, no, it wouldn't make the game more enjoyable. The game would begin to lose credibility at that moment as would Garrus's character. I would gladly trade a few moments of hilarity for the credibility of the franchise and one of my favorite characters.

That's just your personal opinion. Garrus being gay would strengthen his character to me, and not hurt the credilibility of the game at all. Besides, if the option is there, it doesn't mean YOU have to choose it, that's why it's a romantic dialogue choice. No one is forcing this on you, so please stop acting like you would have to have comical gay sex with Garrus.

He would be bisexual, as he is a FEMSHEP option. Also, does loving the male counterpart of another race make me gay? Any thoughts on the subject?

Modifié par ARK of ILKS, 27 février 2010 - 02:25 .

[Collider]

Lightice_av wrote...
I support adding full same-sex options, whether by widening the range of existing characters (easy and cheap) or adding new ones (hard and expensive)

Easy cheap, or hard and expensive? Quite the dichotomy. DLC and patching itself requires time and money, and other resources. Fairly certain that even the content on the disc telling with romance is fragmented, requiring more voice over work. You also have to consider the issue of value. Is it worth spending time and money to modify an existing character for a small amount of people, or is it better just to have a character in ME3 that would be in the game anyway, who happens to be gay? It's subjective, but I'm going to go with it being more valuable to have a new character. The character in ME3 seems also likely to be experienced by more people, by virtue that the gay character is on the disk upon release day, whereas the modified character is in a game that by now plenty of people have already played and finished.

for the sake of fairness

This is not an issue of fairness. Bioware does not owe any one any romance. Bioware is not the government, Bioware is not segregating homosexuals.

I'm sure that plenty of ladies are in an opposite situation of mine, and would also deserve a choice that suits them.

No one deserves, much less heterosexuals who think that gays/lesbians = totally hawt.

[danman2424]

DaeJi wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

Collider, just out of interest, would you consider adding romances to those that havn't clearly stated their sexual preference retconing?

The implication here is also true. Unless a fictional character comes out and says "I am straight," then there is room to change them. Unlike real people, fictional characters have that freedom; Tali of a sudden likes Shepard. Never once did she mention it in the first game, but there it is. No fictional character is ever set in stone; changes can and are made to them to make the story better.

I actually kind of had the impression she liked Shepard in the first one. i think that's one of the main reasons so many people had the spark of desire to romance her. Although I agree she probably didnt become a top candidate for ME2 until Bioware realized how likable of a character she was.

[Collider]

Ninja Mage wrote...
The only person to say they were gay was Liara I believe, or that she liked ''females''

Doesn't make sense. Liara is romanceable by men.

[Lightice_av]

Ryzaki wrote...

<3 Yay *huggles* Thanks for saying what I meant to say but far better.

Always happy to oblige.
Now, time for bed for me.

[PyroFreak301]

danman2424 wrote...
I'm very confident that most would disagree with that.

I'm very confident that your confidence is misplaced.

As for the Garrus thing, no, it wouldn't make the game more enjoyable. The game would begin to lose credibility at that moment as would Garrus's character. I would gladly trade a few moments of hilarity for the credibility of the franchise and one of my favorite characters.

This coming from a guy that has previously told me I took the game/gaming in general too seriously? It shouldn't be excluded from the game just because you can't resist the temptation to click the big --CLICK HERE TO FLIRT-- button.

A lot of people have respect for Bioware simply because they confront and include issues like these, the same could be said for the credibility of their games.

[Collider]

DaeJi wrote...
Adding DLC content shows that the game is not complete.

No it doesn't. It shows that they are adding content.
Imagine this.
a) The Fellowship of the Ring book is released.
Years later, a version that includes a map of Middle Earth is released.
Does that mean that the book in a) was not completed? NO

If it were, why the need to add the content?

To give more content to the player maybe? to make more money? o_O Use your brain.

Until Mass Effect 3 or an expansion comes out, Jacob's story for Mass Effect 2 is not finished.

That's an assumption. You have no idea whatsoever whether DLC that adds content for or about Jacob will be released.

[Ninja Mage]

You're right Ark, it wouldn't be gay to sleep with Garrus anyway because he's an alien. The only reason Garrus would be a ''gay'' option is because he has a male reproductive organ. I guess since he acts masculine it's a gay romance, but like with Liara, it's a sexual relationship based on gender characteristics, not necessarily biological ones

[DaeJi]

I want to touch the issue of a same sex romance DLC only appealing to a small number of fans; I contend that many fans of the series would buy it. For one thing, it adds more content to the game for people to play through. For another, lesbians are not a hard sell to a male fanbase and many females enjoy male/male romances. Beyond that, romance have always been optional and you, the player, have to start any the romances in Mass Effect 2; not one character openly hits on you. Many players are aware of that and would not be bothered by any homosexual content that doesn't appeal to them if they can engage in the ones that do.



The audience for this content is far larger than just horny fangirls and gay men.

[ARK of ILKS]

Ninja Mage wrote...


You're right Ark, it wouldn't be gay to sleep with Garrus anyway because he's an alien. The only reason Garrus would be a ''gay'' option is because he has a male reproductive organ. I guess since he acts masculine it's a gay romance, but like with Liara, it's a sexual relationship based on gender characteristics, not necessarily biological ones

Guess so. Thanks for setting me straight (Pun intended)

Modifié par ARK of ILKS, 27 février 2010 - 02:31 .

[Collider]

PyroFreak301 wrote...
Surely you'd be just as hard pressed to claim retconing then?

Nope. It is retconning because they are suddenly acting in a way they never did, in the same game. Having them be open to the same sex in ME3 is not retconning.

nothing's technically being changed apart from your interpretation of the original conversation, which of course is subjective.

Incorrect. If DLC or a patch was released where in Jacob's second conversation, which occurs early in game, he says that male shepard is totally sexy, that would be retconning. Before the DLC or patch, he did not say it, it altered his sexuality as well as personality.

[danman2424]

Lightice_av wrote...

So you support the retconning of established characters for purposes of ..... titillation?

I support adding full same-sex options, whether by widening the range of existing characters (easy and cheap) or adding new ones (hard and expensive) for the sake of fairness and adding a wider variety of options for people to enjoy for any reason of their choosing. Why would it matter why they want the option?
Personally, my main Shepard is female although I'm a guy. I didn't choose her because "lesbians are hawt" but because I prefer her voice actor, and find her slightly less clichéd a character than her counterpart. A good romance option gives her more depth and character, and F/F feels less awkward for me than hitting on male characters with my FShep. I'm sure that plenty of ladies are in an opposite situation of mine, and would also deserve a choice that suits them.

There you go with this entitlement crap again. They don't "deserve" anything from Bioware. Bioware made a choice that bests suits the majority of consumers. Bioware is not required to include every which preference or desire for you because it's "fair".

Modifié par danman2424, 27 février 2010 - 02:30 .

[DaeJi]

Collider wrote...

No it doesn't. It shows that they are adding content.
Imagine this.
a) The Fellowship of the Ring book is released.
Years later, a version that includes a map of Middle Earth is released.
Does that mean that the book in a) was not completed? NO

A map does not alter the story. Adding new missions and a new character (all planned for Mass Effect 2) does. Your example is faulty. Mass Effect 2 is not yet finished, and BioWare know his, are okay with it, and are adding content to make it a more finished product.

That's an assumption. You have no idea whatsoever whether DLC that adds content for or about Jacob will be released.

Exactly. And until Mass Effect 3 or an expansion is released, there will always be that option. He is not finished until that happens.

[Ninja Mage]

Collider wrote...

Ninja Mage wrote...
The only person to say they were gay was Liara I believe, or that she liked ''females''

Doesn't make sense. Liara is romanceable by men.

I mis-quoted. She said she ''preferred'' females, Ofcourse you can romance her as male shep if you want, but she has a deeper connection with fem shep.

[danman2424]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

This coming from a guy that has previously told me I took the game/gaming in general too seriously?

I never said anything of the sort.

[Ninja Mage]

danman2424 wrote...

There you go with this entitlement crap again. They don't "deserve" anything from Bioware. Bioware made a choice that bests suits the majority of consumers. Bioware is not required to include every which preference or desire for you because it's "fair".

It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has to do with being fair to a portion of the fanbase that expects to be treated equally like the rest. That's why this topic even exists.And unless you have statistics on who the ''majority'' of bioware's fanbase is, just giving us random assumptions about those who want a m/m romance or f/f romance in this game is pointless

Modifié par Ninja Mage, 27 février 2010 - 02:37 .

[FataliTensei]

It's not retconning unless something is set in stone, as far as I can tell none of the characters are completely set in stone



That being said however there are certain characters who are more likely candidates and who it would make more sense for them



Kaidan, Ashley, Thane, and Tali are all part of this, since originally they were supposed to be bisexual



Kaidan and Ashley especially, since the romances were implemented even further than the ones in ME2, Ashely in particular had a fully animated sex scene with fem shep that can be unlocked throught modding

[ARK of ILKS]

Ninja Mage wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

There you go with this entitlement crap again. They don't "deserve" anything from Bioware. Bioware made a choice that bests suits the majority of consumers. Bioware is not required to include every which preference or desire for you because it's "fair".

It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has to do with being fair to a portion of the fanbase that expects to be treated equally like the rest. That's why this topic even exists.And unless you have statistics on who the ''majority'' of bioware's fanbased is, just giving us random assumptions about those who want a m/m romance or f/f romance in this game

Yeah. Im not gay, and im supporting gays everywhere, theyr people too you know.

[JigPig]

Modifié par JigPig, 27 février 2010 - 02:39 .