7455 réponses à ce sujet

[FlyinElk212]

Repost for importance:

I would just like to make a quick post to everyone who supports this forum. I believe it is a very important message that gets lost in the huge opening post of this thread:

It is absolutely imperative that all supporters of a same sex relationship remain 100 civil, no matter what the situation may be. The point of this thread isn't to start fights with those that disagree. It's to showcase our argument as to why this matter should be addressed by Bioware.

Fighting with those that disagree is only hurting the cause. Not only does it make us look like aggressive whiners, but it makes our overall argument lose validity when the supporters can't respond to a negative post intelligently and without the same negativity.

So no matter what, no matter how hurtful, no matter how much a post makes you angry, please do not respond with snark. We must be better than those who resort to bashing a good cause. If you can't respond to any negative post civilly, then simply ignore it.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 26 février 2010 - 03:05 .

[DaeJi]

My stance on supporting gay romances have always come down to one thing and one thing only: FUN. It would make the game more fun for more people, give people new ways to have fun with the game, and provide great chances for modders to take them and have fun altering them (big heads being the standard). Fun fun and more fun. If it's fun, include it.

[BrianWilly]

danman2424 wrote...

Any way you swing it, Everyone would be exposed to it on some level, rather than the relatively few that modded the original version on PC for similar results. Many would come across it, and many would see the game as comical upon experiencing it.

But you're acting like this would be the first time anyone has ever implemented any sort of gay content in any games ever.  We've got massively popular games like the Fable series, Dragon Age, and even Bully of all things already including some form of gay content or another and, really, they're doing just fine.  They certainly haven't been pigeonholed as "comical protagonists" or deemed unviable just for the inclusion of gay content.

[Arik7]

ronniej69 wrote...

I love the same sex scenes in Dargon age orgins. Wish we could have more of it. Am gay and love it.

Same here.  I really enjoyed Dragon Age. 

ME2 was such a step backwards.

[danman2424]

Ryzaki wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Most people don't take games as seriously as you appear to. I doubt the majority is worried about "Their" Shepard as you call it nor would they ignore such options just because that would be the "mature" thing to do.

Any way you swing it, Everyone would be exposed to it on some level, rather than the relatively few that modded the original version on PC for similar results. Many would come across it, and many would see the game as comical upon experiencing it.

Judging by what you just said they might be taking the game too seriously. Tis a GAME. One must never forget that. Those people in the game, their emotions are programs and scripts. Not real. I.E. Shepard does not exist. He is a program that is all.

Exactly. Which is why I think his claim that people will just skip over it because they're concerned about the character of "Their" Shepard is a little ridiculous. They'll choose whichever option they think is going to be craziest or funniest. Case in point, I know few players that did not punch the female reporter in the first game. Not because they abuse women in real life, but because it was one of the more hilarious and shocking things you could do in the game.

[Ryzaki]

BrianWilly wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Any way you swing it, Everyone would be exposed to it on some level, rather than the relatively few that modded the original version on PC for similar results. Many would come across it, and many would see the game as comical upon experiencing it.

But you're acting like this would be the first time anyone has ever implemented any sort of gay content in any games ever.  We've got massively popular games like the Fable series, Dragon Age, and even Bully of all things already including some form of gay content or another and, really, they're doing just fine.  They certainly haven't been pigeonholed as "comical protagonists" or deemed unviable just for the inclusion of gay content.

Oi Brian let's be honest. All the relationships in Fable are comical. I had a wife/husband in every bloody town. That was lulz.

Dragon Age was good though. As was Jade Empire. Relationships that didn't end up with someone dead. (Well most of the time in DA someone didn't end up dead.  US ending T_T ) 

danman2424 wrote...



Exactly. Which is why I think
his claim that people will just skip over it because they're concerned
about the character of "Their" Shepard is a little ridiculous. They'll
choose whichever option they think is going to be craziest or funniest.
Case in point, I know few players that did not punch the female
reporter in the first game. Not because they abuse women in real life,
but because it was one of the more hilarious and shocking things you
could do in the game.

You realize that's as good an argument for putting it in though right? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 février 2010 - 03:09 .

[PyroFreak301]

danman2424 wrote...
Most people don't take games as seriously as you appear to. I doubt the majority is worried about "Their" Shepard as you call it nor would they ignore such options just because that would be the "mature" thing to do.

Any way you swing it, Everyone would be exposed to it on some level, rather than the relatively few that modded the original version on PC for similar results. Many would come across it, and many would see the game as comical upon experiencing it.

A lot of people do shape their characters around themselves to some degree, and playing seriously or not, this does include a persons sexuality. While none of us can truely speak for the majority, I still maintain they would simply skip the option if they weren't interested.

Do you view DA:O as comical because of the potential gay romance? I havn't spoken to a single person that has thought DA:O was comical for that reason, they all just skipped the conversation and carried on with the game.

And for those that do find it comical, they game just had another dimension of humour for you. If you or they hold it against a Shepard that can also be straight, then it's your loss.

Modifié par PyroFreak301, 26 février 2010 - 03:10 .

[Kazen_Demiru]

I'm on the fence on this issue, but debating should be debating, getting endless pages of "I <3 this"  doesn't really mean much if anyone who isn't for it get's shot down as a troll or "hater", as has been seen in the threads.  I'm not saying there aren't trolls or people who love to stir the pot, just that not everyone HAS to be for an idea, kindof like being against gay "marrage" but for unions or some other word with all the benifits lables me as anti-gay.  The world is filled with double-standards and crap that is just stupid over all.

The whole idea of "play as you want" should entail people to persue relationships with whatever crew member they want, yes I agree with that.  But at the same time why should said crew memeber accept your advances?  I.E.  MShep wants Garrus bad, but should he immediatly accept the advances?  If you want more reality into it then you'd have to get around the homophobia that is in our culture, and more than likely in the galactic culture of ME as well.  Asari aren't a good example for people to spew out lesbian relationships, can it be taken that way? Hell yes it can, but knowing about Asari reproduction, it's more a moot point.  But of course everyone will scream about BI FShep cause Liara has boobs.

I do say you should be able to make choices that you want to make, and I agree that friendships should be able to be sought in the ME universe without the %100 guarentee that a booty call from miranda or garrus follows up.   What's wrong with just being nice to your crew?  Why do I always end up "in a relationship" with someone because I'm not an ass to them?

I think this should go both ways though, like I said before, why should Garrus jump to a relationship for MShep just because that option may become available in ME3?   I feel there needs to be more discresion in the relationships in ME, talk to someone two-three times and they want to be in your cabbin is a bit much, but I can see the whole "We may die, lets have something special" at the same time.

Well TLDR;

Pursue relationships you WANT to pursue? Yes

Should crew members of the same sex immediatly be open to homosexual behavior?  No

Besides, it would be humorous trying to court Garrus >D

"I wasn't hitting on you when I said "Reach and flexibility" Shepard..."

Modifié par Kazen_Demiru, 26 février 2010 - 03:10 .

[cancausecancer]

Ryzaki wrote...
So anyone have any more ideas for implementing gay romances in the game? 

Well in the men's room on one of the planets is a guy standing at the urinal, I think it's in one of the clubs. He's always standing there no matter how many times you come back to it. Since he's unused in the game and it's a perfect gay romance scenario, they could add it in right there.

I think gay romances would play too quickly since women's resistances to guys add the bit of hard to get fun that makes it work. If you have two guys in there, they're going to be goal oriented like guys and it'd be better off as a mini game where you just mash buttons.

[DaeJi]

danman2424 wrote...

Exactly. Which is why I think his claim that people will just skip over it because they're concerned about the character of "Their" Shepard is a little ridiculous. They'll choose whichever option they think is going to be craziest or funniest. Case in point, I know few players that did not punch the female reporter in the first game. Not because they abuse women in real life, but because it was one of the more hilarious and shocking things you could do in the game.

I don't think the nature of a romance is what makes it comical or not; for instance, a romance with Thane is kind of tragic, even if you could do it as a male. There is no way to really make a loving relationship with a dying man funny. On the other hand, the Garrus romance is funny. He's awkward, nervous, bad with words, over thinking it... it was great! The characters are what makes the romance, not whether it's gay or not.

[Erode_The_Soul]

tmelange wrote...
I think that it's an erroneous assumption to suppose that BW didn't implement, or wouldn't implement, an m/m option because they couldn't figure out a way to do it. The thing about discrimination and phobic behavior is that nothing is ever enough. You can color code options and a good percentage of the masses will still cry bloody murder. There is no middle ground to be found when people hate you or what you are for reasons that allow freedom for them and less freedom for you.

Perhaps it is an erroneous assumption, but we have very little knowledge as to why the options were excluded, so all we can do is guess. It may be unlikely they could not find a means to implement it, but there is still a small chance this is true thanks to the vague, non-answers we have on the subject.

In terms of the "no middle ground," it may be true that there is no viable solution to appease both sides. But shutting down the dialogue helps no one. We may never reach an amicable solution, but there's no harm in entertaining/discussing them.

[tmelange]

Yeled wrote...

I agree with you, tmelange. That's why I support color coded romance options. They aren't to keep you from clicking on m/m relationships. They prevent you from clicking any relationship you don't want to engage in.

You know, you're right. I actually agree that color coding would work in a way, because it doesn't hide anything; it's more in the nature of a reading aide. lol However, I also think that if the flirty line option were too egregiously "gay", enough people would still be up in arms. The color coding only works for those mature people who don't mind knowing the option is there, and actually reading it. The vocal group, the ones that we are assuming BW wants to keep happy, will likely not be satisfied. I guess what I'm saying is that this is a great solution for the legitimate problem of not wanting to find yourself inexplicably in an undesired relationship; however, I don't think solving this will address the core issue.

[danman2424]

tmelange wrote...


I think that it's an erroneous assumption to suppose that BW didn't implement, or wouldn't implement, an m/m option because they couldn't figure out a way to do it. The thing about discrimination and phobic behavior is that nothing is ever enough. You can color code options and a good percentage of the masses will still cry bloody murder. There is no middle ground to be found when people hate you or what you are for reasons that allow freedom for them and less freedom for you.

The same can be said about those few crying out against Bioware about the lack of homosexual activity in one of their games.

None of you are entitled. Females who prefer white men are not entitled to a white love interest in ME2.

[didymos1120]

NVM

Modifié par didymos1120, 26 février 2010 - 03:15 .

[DaeJi]

Kazen_Demiru wrote...

Should crew members of the same sex immediatly be open to homosexual behavior?  No

While I do agree with that for some characters (the whole moment with Samara was great), BioWare including the option to hit on members of the same sex but not be with them isn't any better. It's letting the player play "their" way, but not letting them get anywhere with it, saying that that version of Shepard isn't the one you should be playing.

[cancausecancer]

danman2424 wrote...

None of you are entitled. Females who prefer white men are not entitled to a white love interest in ME2.

I personally find girls who leave makeup products all over my bathroom to be attractive. I wish they'd allow your LI to slowly move into your room with their clothes hanging everywhere, their makeup all over your table, their piles of shoes blocking the entrance...

[Console Cowboy]

Kazen_Demiru wrote...

I'm on the fence on this issue, but debating should be debating, getting endless pages of "I <3 this"  doesn't really mean much if anyone who isn't for it get's shot down as a troll or "hater", as has been seen in the threads.  I'm not saying there aren't trolls or people who love to stir the pot, just that not everyone HAS to be for an idea, kindof like being against gay "marrage" but for unions or some other word with all the benifits lables me as anti-gay.  The world is filled with double-standards and crap that is just stupid over all.

i'm not going to claim that same sex advocates are entirely innocent of it, but reasonable debate has been the exception, not the rule. lots of trolls and hateful spam have popped up over this issue. the FAQ in the first post is intended to stop it before it starts.

[ratzerman]

I totally support this thread, but I honestly don't think Bioware is listening. When it comes to romances, they don't really care what the fans want. Just look at what they did to the original love interests from ME1. We'll get whatever romances Bioware wants to give us. Protest threads won't make a difference. Except for the Tali fans, of course. They get whatever they want.

[danman2424]

Ryzaki wrote...


You realize that's as good an argument for putting it in though right? 

Not at all. Hitting a reporter is not even comparable to the light the character would be in if he were engaging in homosexual activity. That's like saying "Well what the heck, they allow you to hit reporters in the game so why not just allow players the option to dress Shepard in drag? I'm sure the players would get a kick out of it."

Sadly your logic is flawed.

[DaeJi]

ratzerman wrote...

I totally support this thread, but I honestly don't think Bioware is listening. When it comes to romances, they don't really care what the fans want. Just look at what they did to the original love interests from ME1. We'll get whatever romances Bioware wants to give us. Protest threads won't make a difference. Except for the Tali fans, of course. They get whatever they want.

Tali and Garrus were added because the fans wanted them. BioWare does listen, and the hope is that they will listen to us and the various other medias that have commented on this; BioWare have set a standard for themselves, whether they meant to or not, and when they did not live up to it people noticed.

[Ninja Mage]

These threads aren't fun if I can't be sassy to people, but I'll try to keep it civil

[Kazen_Demiru]

DaeJi wrote...

Kazen_Demiru wrote...

Should crew members of the same sex immediatly be open to homosexual behavior?  No

While I do agree with that for some characters (the whole moment with Samara was great), BioWare including the option to hit on members of the same sex but not be with them isn't any better. It's letting the player play "their" way, but not letting them get anywhere with it, saying that that version of Shepard isn't the one you should be playing.

I'm not saying that the option to pursue the relationship shouldn't be there.  I'm saying that having no resistance to a M/M or F/F relationship is just plain silly and would only be done to appease people.

A more realistic approach would be the better option, like the colour wheel "hit on" this color "just be friendly" this colour idea.  You CAN hit on them, it may take more work than going for a F/M relationship, but that would be realistic to me.  Can some characters be open to m/m f/f? Why not?  I'm not arguing the option away by saying you shouldnt be able to play your way, just that YOUR WAY may not be what the characters in the game WANT right off the bat.  I see nothing wrong with eventually getting the m/m f/f relationship you may want, just to implement it realistically instead of only to appease people.

[MPSai]

As a gay gamer  I don't think having same sex relationships in choice/customization-based games is the be-all end-all of my game choices, however, when given the option to play as a lesbian I usually do it for my first character (my canon!Shep, for example, makes decisions similar to the ones I would make... if I was a badass space marine anyway) and I appreciate having that option. My canon Shepard is gay. My first character in Fable 2 was female and had 8 wives etc.

It just seems unbalanced that female Shepard can be gay but male Shepard can't. As for people saying the character represents the franchise and it would be bad for marketing if he can be gay.... what? The face of the series is the standard Shepard, which most people who will really get into the series and care about the series aren't going to use. That would be like saying it gives a bad image cause Shepard can also be female because it will lose the core demographic.

Modifié par MPSai, 26 février 2010 - 03:21 .

[MPSai]

And I doubled posted.

Modifié par MPSai, 26 février 2010 - 03:20 .

[Cat Lance]

Kazen_Demiru wrote...
I do say you should be able to make choices that you want to make, and I agree that friendships should be able to be sought in the ME universe without the %100 guarentee that a booty call from miranda or garrus follows up.   What's wrong with just being nice to your crew?  Why do I always end up "in a relationship" with someone because I'm not an ass to them?

OMG SO THIS. That's how I ended up activating the Kaiden romance in ME1

Pursue relationships you WANT to pursue? Yes

Should crew members of the same sex immediatly be open to homosexual behavior?  No

Besides, it would be humorous trying to court Garrus >D

"I wasn't hitting on you when I said "Reach and flexibility" Shepard..."

I don't think that same sex partners in ME should necesarily not be immediately open to the idea. It should depend on the character. I would prefer to see Garrus have second thoughts about romancing Shep of any gender because they are Human, as opposed to because it's a male Shep. If the character is written as gay or bi, then there shouldn't be any argument because of it being same-sex. If they have reservations about starting a relationship right away that's actually pretty cool, but I'd hate to see something implemented where Shep has to "convince" someone they are gay. That would be ick.