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[javierabegazo]

jlb524 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Tali and Thane are bi-sexual?

Dialogue files leftover in the game suggest that at one point they were planned to be the bi options.

Miranda and Jack have left over dialog files too.  I'm not sure we can use that evidence to say that Tali was planned as the f/f option.

Thane, however, is interestingly the only male with m/m dialog recorded by Meer.

Can anyone write the left over dialog files so I can read them?

[Ninja Mage]

Thane has yummy plum lips

[Naughty Bear]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Thane has yummy plum lips

Jack definitely has some nice plum lips

[Jimmy Fury]

javierabegazo wrote...
Can anyone write the left over dialog files so I can read them?

There's a link to the youtube video near the bottom of the the third post of the the thread. The last 2 links are for fem.Shep+Tali and m.Shep+Thane

I'm pretty sure they have the dialogue in question... I coulkd be wrong though I haven't watched them myself.

Note: for anyone who hasn't looked at page 1 lately (aaand by lately i mean "while i was asleep" )  the FAQ has been edited to fix the formatting issues and Arik and Brian were kind enough to help spread it out into the first three posts of the thread!
Looks great!

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 27 février 2010 - 05:16 .

[cutthecameras]

I don't understand the folks who are saying "OMG Shepard and Garrus together is so gross"...Maybe cus it already happened with female Shepard? I find Garrus and female Shepard totally gross too. I flirted with him just to see how it was handled and then I quickly reloaded, the taste of vomit still lingering in my mouth from the experience. Human and Turian is just one of those things that I never pictured was gonna happen...I never wanted to picture it anyway.



Sorry Garrus fans.

[Eternal Dust]

cutthecameras wrote...

I don't understand the folks who are saying "OMG Shepard and Garrus together is so gross"...Maybe cus it already happened with female Shepard? I find Garrus and female Shepard totally gross too. I flirted with him just to see how it was handled and then I quickly reloaded, the taste of vomit still lingering in my mouth from the experience. Human and Turian is just one of those things that I never pictured was gonna happen...I never wanted to picture it anyway.

Sorry Garrus fans.

Ditto. I thought the idea of it was crazy and would never happen in a million years. Guess I was wrong. Do I even NEED a reason to keep my FemShep celibate? I mean, jeez, look at the choices.

[Arik7]

octoberfire wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

I don't understand the folks who are saying "OMG Shepard and Garrus together is so gross"...Maybe cus it already happened with female Shepard? I find Garrus and female Shepard totally gross too. I flirted with him just to see how it was handled and then I quickly reloaded, the taste of vomit still lingering in my mouth from the experience. Human and Turian is just one of those things that I never pictured was gonna happen...I never wanted to picture it anyway.

Sorry Garrus fans.

Ditto. I thought the idea of it was crazy and would never happen in a million years. Guess I was wrong. Do I even NEED a reason to keep my FemShep celibate? I mean, jeez, look at the choices.

The ME games do need better human male models.   It is very difficult to create an attractive male Shepard.  Kaidan is probably the only attractive human male in the whole series.  Jacob and Joker aren't bad either, but other than that, the human male meshes suck.

Modifié par Arik7, 27 février 2010 - 06:22 .

[cutthecameras]

Arik7 wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

I don't understand the folks who are saying "OMG Shepard and Garrus together is so gross"...Maybe cus it already happened with female Shepard? I find Garrus and female Shepard totally gross too. I flirted with him just to see how it was handled and then I quickly reloaded, the taste of vomit still lingering in my mouth from the experience. Human and Turian is just one of those things that I never pictured was gonna happen...I never wanted to picture it anyway.

Sorry Garrus fans.

Ditto. I thought the idea of it was crazy and would never happen in a million years. Guess I was wrong. Do I even NEED a reason to keep my FemShep celibate? I mean, jeez, look at the choices.

The ME games do need better human male models.   It is very difficult to create an attractive male Shepard.  Kaidan is probably the only attractive human male in the whole series.  Jacob and Joker aren't bad either, but other than that, the human male meshes suck.

Really? And here I thought that my opinion of "there are no attractive guys in ME" was directly linked to me being a lesbian.

[Wittand25]

I havew been thinking about the possible problems unlocking LIs for both genders can cause and how to avoid them.

1. Jealosy from the other LIs in ME2: There is no him-or-me dialog for female LIs ( and vice versa for male LIs)
Solution : Just allow the same sex romance to start after Shepard ends all romances with the opposite sex LIs, they stop talking to him/her afterwards anyway so the absence of a jealosy confrontation would not be missed. This also works as a way to make sure that it is unlikly to activate such a romance accidently.

2. Jealosy from the LI of ME1: The Devs said that having a romance in both ME1 and ME2 will result in consequences in ME3. Allowing same sex romances in ME2 would increase the amount of work for this "romantic showdown" significally.
Solution: Make the same sex option only available to Shepards that either stayed single or romanced Liara in ME1. Single Shepards wont see a jealosy scene anyway so there is no extra work and Liara already needs to be able to have a confrontation with all the six romances so again no increase in the work necessary for ME3.

3. The cost of calling back the voice actors not only for Shepard but for  the LIs to.
Solution: While I consider the cost of getting the voice actors back only for the romance this could be avoided by having the unlocked romances as part of a bigger DLC that also features the concerned LIs(see RtO of DA:O). This also adresses the fear that the DLC would be for a to small target audience because the main focus of the DLC can be the new mission and the unlocked romances only an extra.

[didymos1120]

OK, so what've I missed since last I posted?  Let's see:

1.  I see the "EWWW, GAY GUYS ARE GROSS" and "I don't want them teaching my children in my manly Sci-Fi RPGs"  quotas have been met.  Looks like "Please, won't somebody think of the children!" is still unfilled, however. 

2. A "fascinating" semantic-nitpick war over the meaning of "retcon", which nobody appears to have won, mostly because everyone all seems to have their own different, slightly wrong definition which, entirely coincidentally, were very conveniently supportive of whatever point they were trying to make at any given time.  Thoughts, Morbo from Futurama? 



Thank you, Morbo.

3. Many declarations along the lines of "I'm straight but..."  or "...but I'm not gay."  Sometimes both in the same post.  BTW,  I'm straight but I'm not gay.  I'd also like to thank the Academy for...whatever.

4. danman making the "Gay dudes are just comical, especially IN SPACE, and if we allow this in Mass Effect, it's credibility will be RUINED FOREVER!" argument for the nth time while still refusing to back this up in any way whatsoever beyond dogged repetition. Not even with lousy anecdotal evidence.

Thoughts, Turian Councilor in Mass Effect 2?



You and me both, pal. You and me both.

5.  "Heavy Rain is awesome. It has nudity! Here's some spoilers!"

6. "What the hell! Stop posting Heavy Rain spoilers people."

7.  More failed attempts to "prove" Asari aren't really girls, so Femshep ain't no lesbian, along with other bad rationalizations based on the faulty "Gender doesn't matter 'cause they're ACE SPALIENS!" premise.

8. Someone going by "ARK of ILKS" refusing to take anything seriously. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

9. Miscellaneous snide insinuations and disingenuous assertions

10.  MShep still can't find a good man.

11. FemShep is still stuck with some half-assed F/F teases.

12.  We still have no good explanation for this.

So, that about cover it?

Modifié par didymos1120, 27 février 2010 - 07:24 .

[Allison W]

One thing the anti-M/M and -F/F folks seem to have difficulty addressing is why the ME team can't just fess up to whatever motives drove them to mostly complete the same-sex romances, then take them out again before release. Ray's explanation sounds like nothing so much as slimy politician doublespeak. The issue wasn't time (they didn't even claim it is), and they seem frightened to admit what their real motives are. I have one guess as to their motives, and suffice it to say that it's cynical enough that it explains why they'd want to keep them hidden.



It is this that is far, far more offensive than just not having the same-sex romances in the first place. I can't take my copy back (it's already opened), but everything in the box is unused, and I may yet hock it on eBay after all the CE copies are sold out and the price goes up.

[didymos1120]

Allison W wrote...

One thing the anti-M/M and -F/F folks seem to have difficulty addressing is why the ME team can't just fess up to whatever motives drove them to mostly complete the same-sex romances, then take them out again before release. Ray's explanation sounds like nothing so much as slimy politician doublespeak.

For what was quite clearly a PR exercise in mollification, it really has spectacularly failed at its primary purpose.

[MPSai]

Even though there was no gay dude!Shep in the first game I'm wondering if there was pressure from EA, since my fem!Shep pretty much had no real lesbian romance options in ME2 (oh well, guess she's staying true to Liara.)

[Allison W]

didymos1120 wrote...

Allison W wrote...

One thing the anti-M/M and -F/F folks seem to have difficulty addressing is why the ME team can't just fess up to whatever motives drove them to mostly complete the same-sex romances, then take them out again before release. Ray's explanation sounds like nothing so much as slimy politician doublespeak.

For what was quite clearly a PR exercise in mollification, it really has spectacularly failed at its primary purpose.

Mostly because it was a transparent exercise in lies, lies, lies, and there is little that is more infuriating than having someone lie through their teeth to you. I don't think the truth could be more damaging at this point, because the fact that they resorted to lies in the first place is a dead giveaway that the truth is something to be ashamed of.

[didymos1120]

MPSai wrote...

Even though there was no gay dude!Shep in the first game I'm wondering if there was pressure from EA, since my fem!Shep pretty much had no real lesbian romance options in ME2 (oh well, guess she's staying true to Liara.)

Rather doubtful.  For one, they didn't seem to force DA:O to conform to this notional "het only" policy. They also publish The Sims which is pretty free-wheeling as far as orientation goes (though, admittedly, not on the GBA or DS, but I suspect that's more due to Nintendo's long standing squeamishness in non-Japanese markets ).  Less seriously, some would argue Army of Two is an epic tale of gay romance.

[MPSai]

didymos1120 wrote...

MPSai wrote...

Even though there was no gay dude!Shep in the first game I'm wondering if there was pressure from EA, since my fem!Shep pretty much had no real lesbian romance options in ME2 (oh well, guess she's staying true to Liara.)

Rather doubtful.  For one, they didn't seem to force DA:O to conform to this notional "het only" policy. They also publish The Sims which is pretty free-wheeling as far as orientation goes (though, admittedly, not on the GBA or DS, but I suspect that's more due to Nintendo's long standing squeamishness in non-Japanese markets ).  Less seriously, some would argue Army of Two is an epic tale of gay romance.

Well to that effect, this is EA we're talking about. They probably assumed the mainstream crowd wouldn't give a crap about Dragon Age, and The Sims is considered to be a game largely played by women. Since they might possibly view ME as appealing to chest-pounding FPS junkie types... yeah. On the other hand it does seem Bioware has more control over their media than other developers under EA. I'm not sure why they shy away from it in ME, unless there is someone high up on the ME team who doesn't approve. 

Modifié par MPSai, 27 février 2010 - 08:26 .

[danman2424]

diskoh wrote...

The people saying that a gay romance would be goofy apparently missed the part where Mordin told femShep not to swallow Garrus' load.

My dear God. Just picturing Mordin giving male Commander Shepard a lecture on load swallowing should be enough to make anyone realize why gay content didn't make the cut. Just... wow.

[Allison W]

MPSai wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

MPSai wrote...

Even though there was no gay dude!Shep in the first game I'm wondering if there was pressure from EA, since my fem!Shep pretty much had no real lesbian romance options in ME2 (oh well, guess she's staying true to Liara.)

Rather doubtful.  For one, they didn't seem to force DA:O to conform to this notional "het only" policy. They also publish The Sims which is pretty free-wheeling as far as orientation goes (though, admittedly, not on the GBA or DS, but I suspect that's more due to Nintendo's long standing squeamishness in non-Japanese markets ).  Less seriously, some would argue Army of Two is an epic tale of gay romance.

Well to that effect, this is EA we're talking about. They probably assumed the mainstream crowd wouldn't give a crap about Dragon Age, and The Sims is considered to be a game largely played by women. Since they might possibly view ME as appealing to chest-pounding FPS junkie types... yeah. On the other hand it does seem Bioware has more control over their media than other developers under EA. I'm not sure why they shy away from it in ME, unless there is someone high up on the ME team who doesn't approve. 

That's what I'm thinking--either it's a higher-up on the ME team (the writers and VAs apparently don't mind M/M or F/F content, but someone above them seems to), or EA is applying different pressures to the ME team based on their assumptions about its "target market."

[Allison W]

danman2424 wrote...

diskoh wrote...

The people saying that a gay romance would be goofy apparently missed the part where Mordin told femShep not to swallow Garrus' load.

My dear God. Just picturing Mordin giving male Commander Shepard a lecture on load swallowing should be enough to make anyone realize why gay content didn't make the cut. Just... wow.

So it's better when he's explaining it to femShep?

Modifié par Allison W, 27 février 2010 - 08:34 .

[Arik7]

danman2424 wrote...

diskoh wrote...

The people saying that a gay romance would be goofy apparently missed the part where Mordin told femShep not to swallow Garrus' load.

My dear God. Just picturing Mordin giving male Commander Shepard a lecture on load swallowing should be enough to make anyone realize why gay content didn't make the cut. Just... wow.

Please expain how is that different for a male vs. a female Shepard?  I don't get it.   I think you are trying to rationalize your position with prejudices.

[danman2424]

Allison W wrote...

MPSai wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

MPSai wrote...

Even though there was no gay dude!Shep in the first game I'm wondering if there was pressure from EA, since my fem!Shep pretty much had no real lesbian romance options in ME2 (oh well, guess she's staying true to Liara.)

Rather doubtful.  For one, they didn't seem to force DA:O to conform to this notional "het only" policy. They also publish The Sims which is pretty free-wheeling as far as orientation goes (though, admittedly, not on the GBA or DS, but I suspect that's more due to Nintendo's long standing squeamishness in non-Japanese markets ).  Less seriously, some would argue Army of Two is an epic tale of gay romance.

Well to that effect, this is EA we're talking about. They probably assumed the mainstream crowd wouldn't give a crap about Dragon Age, and The Sims is considered to be a game largely played by women. Since they might possibly view ME as appealing to chest-pounding FPS junkie types... yeah. On the other hand it does seem Bioware has more control over their media than other developers under EA. I'm not sure why they shy away from it in ME, unless there is someone high up on the ME team who doesn't approve. 

That's what I'm thinking--either it's a higher-up on the ME team (the writers and VAs apparently don't mind M/M or F/F content, but someone above them seems to), or EA is applying different pressures to the ME team based on their assumptions about its "target market."

Uh you do realize that the first Mass Effect was not published by EA?

[Ryzaki]

Arik7 wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

diskoh wrote...

The people saying that a gay romance would be goofy apparently missed the part where Mordin told femShep not to swallow Garrus' load.

My dear God. Just picturing Mordin giving male Commander Shepard a lecture on load swallowing should be enough to make anyone realize why gay content didn't make the cut. Just... wow.

Please expain how is that different for a male vs. a female Shepard?  I don't get it.   I think you are trying to rationalize your position with prejudices.

And how would it be any different than Mordin telling him not to let Tali swallow? 

...Uh that came out way nastier than I thought it would. *

[MPSai]

danman2424 wrote...

diskoh wrote...

The people saying that a gay romance would be goofy apparently missed the part where Mordin told femShep not to swallow Garrus' load.

My dear God. Just picturing Mordin giving male Commander Shepard a lecture on load swallowing should be enough to make anyone realize why gay content didn't make the cut. Just... wow.

How's it less funny if it's a dude!Shep?

[Allison W]

danman2424 wrote...

Uh you do realize that the first Mass
Effect was not published by EA?

That narrows it down to someone on the ME team, then.

Though it's worth noting that Ray's politician doublespeak about femShep and Liara being TOTALLY NOT GAY didn't come until after EA.

Modifié par Allison W, 27 février 2010 - 08:37 .

[MPSai]

[quote]danman2424 wrote...


[/quote]Uh you do realize that the first Mass Effect was not published by EA?[/quote]

Uh have you seen the giant EA logo on your Mass Effect 2 box and start-up screen?