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[MPSai]

MPSai wrote...

danman2424 wrote...


Uh you do realize that the first Mass Effect was not published by EA?

Uh have you seen the giant EA logo on your Mass Effect 2 box and start-up screen? I was talking more about same-sex romances being even more downplayed in ME2 than ME1

[Arik7]

Allison W wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Uh you do realize that the first Mass
Effect was not published by EA?

That narrows it down to someone on the ME team, then.

Though it's worth noting that Ray's politician doublespeak about femShep and Liara being TOTALLY NOT GAY didn't come until after EA.

It was actually Casey Hudson who stated that FemShep/Liara relationship is not a female/female relationship, contradicting BioWare's own ME codex in the process.

I think EA has been very positive with same-sex marriages in the Sims 3, and they published DAO.  

[Allison W]

Sims 3 and DAO, yes, which is what makes the runaround with the ME series all the more mystifying.

[danman2424]

Allison W wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

diskoh wrote...

The people saying that a gay romance would be goofy apparently missed the part where Mordin told femShep not to swallow Garrus' load.

My dear God. Just picturing Mordin giving male Commander Shepard a lecture on load swallowing should be enough to make anyone realize why gay content didn't make the cut. Just... wow.

So it's better when he's explaining it to femShep?

Of course it is, she's a female. The thought of male commander Shepard on his knees and.... no, just no.

[sw33ts]

O_o



Then don't think about it. It'll fade to black anyways. I don't like the idea of Garrus and my FemShep so i don't pursue it.

[MPSai]

Damnit I keep quoting myself by accident.

Modifié par MPSai, 27 février 2010 - 08:48 .

[MPSai]

Yeah exactly, if you don't want your Shepard to have a same-sex romance then... don't? Sides I think the majority of us would rather have a new love interest character for that side of things.

danman2424 wrote...

Of course it is, she's a female. The thought of male commander Shepard on his knees and.... no, just no.

So what he couldn't be on his knees with a woman either?

Modifié par MPSai, 27 février 2010 - 08:48 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

To be quite honest, I find it rather difficult to be nice to a squaddie without ending up in a romance already. The last I need is more characters to be able to cause this "problem".

[sw33ts]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

To be quite honest, I find it rather difficult to be nice to a squaddie without ending up in a romance already. The last I need is more characters to be able to cause this "problem".

That's why we recommended coloring the romance option.  So you can't accidently start one.

[danman2424]

Arik7 wrote...

Allison W wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Uh you do realize that the first Mass
Effect was not published by EA?

That narrows it down to someone on the ME team, then.

Though it's worth noting that Ray's politician doublespeak about femShep and Liara being TOTALLY NOT GAY didn't come until after EA.

It was actually Casey Hudson who stated that FemShep/Liara relationship is not a female/female relationship, contradicting BioWare's own ME codex in the process.

I think EA has been very positive with same-sex marriages in the Sims 3, and they published DAO.  

The codex isn't necessarily well-written through and through. There are various incidents of dates contradicting each other and other anomalies. Technically the Asari cannot be all female, otherwise they would not be able to mate with each other.

I will agree that his excuse does sound like damage control, but it's not made completely invalid solely due to one misprint in the codex.

[Space Shot]

[quote]MPSai wrote...
Uh you do realize that the first Mass Effect was not published by EA?[/quote]

Uh have you seen the giant EA logo on your Mass Effect 2 box and start-up screen?
[/quote]

Why does brand name matter?  Regardless of the symbol on the box, it represents a inhuman monolithic corporation with largely the same responsibilities and concerns as any other and, consequently, much of the same norms of reaction.  Microsoft, EA, it's a moot point because both will do what they can to save face if it is decided that such action must be taken (which in this case is plainly obvious that they didn't.  Dragon Age was also published by EA so it is clear that they are OK with "alternative life choices," as most every company is required to be in this all inclusive society of ours.  The difference between the direction of the two games lies solely with Bioware, and their decision not to make Shepard be a free canvas for unlimited personal expression.  He is a vessel for a story, one which you can polarize at your whims but one that you cannot completely define, none the less.  Like a more expressive Master Chief, Shepard will not be a perfect reflection of you or your own personality and so you should not express something as fundamental to that personality such as sexual preferences to be represented, fully, by "your" character.  This was plainly obvious in ME1, and your limitations to relationship with the opposite gender or a hermaphrodite, but it seems some people couldn't put that picture together and instead chose to fill it in with their own aspirations having few other promising outlets.)

Modifié par Space Shot, 27 février 2010 - 08:54 .

[sw33ts]

danman2424 wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Allison W wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Uh you do realize that the first Mass
Effect was not published by EA?

That narrows it down to someone on the ME team, then.

Though it's worth noting that Ray's politician doublespeak about femShep and Liara being TOTALLY NOT GAY didn't come until after EA.

It was actually Casey Hudson who stated that FemShep/Liara relationship is not a female/female relationship, contradicting BioWare's own ME codex in the process.

I think EA has been very positive with same-sex marriages in the Sims 3, and they published DAO.  

The codex isn't necessarily well-written through and through. There are various incidents of dates contradicting each other and other anomalies. Technically the Asari cannot be all female, otherwise they would not be able to mate with each other.

I will agree that his excuse does sound like damage control, but it's not made completely invalid solely due to one misprint in the codex.

Female is gender.  And the way they mate is not the same as human standards.  It does not require the exchanging of any fuilds.  Just melding of nervous systems and thoughts...which every species has...

During melding, an asari consciously attunes her nervous system to her partner's, sending and receiving electrical impulses directly through the skin. A common phrase used before melding is "embrace eternity,"
presumably to help focus the partner's mind. Effectively, the asari and her partner briefly become one unified  nervous system. This unique means of reproduction is the reason asari are all talented biotics. Their evolved ability to consciously control nerve impulses is very similar to biotic training. The partner can be another asari, or an alien of any gender. However, since the asari began encountering other sentient species, non-asari mates have become preferred for the diversity they provide. This reproductive process can lead to some
confusion among non-asari, who might expect offspring with "mixed" genes. However, the offspring is always 100% asari, as it does not actually take DNA from the partner, simply use it as a "map" to randomize the genes of the offspring.
An asari's melding ability extends to a mental connection as well, which Liara describes as being the true union between an asari and her partner. It allows the asari to explore her partner's genetic heritage
and pass desirable traits on to any offspring. During mating an asari and her partner share memories, thoughts, and feelings. It is also possible for an asari to meld with another for the sole purpose of
transferring thoughts, without reproduction.

Modifié par sw33ts, 27 février 2010 - 09:01 .

[didymos1120]

Well, we're not the only ones who find this irksome:

Mass Effect 2 and the lack of homosexuality in space
Uranian Love vs. Status Quo
Mass Effect 2: Bad Romance
A comparative discourse on Bioware games Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age: Origins
BioWare Founder Discusses Relationship Inclusion/Exclusion

[IngoLoema]

I think there is a bit of truth in the saying ME is targeting a different audience than Dragon Age. I remember a similiar issue brought up, when Baldur's Gate was released.



There was a german group who tried to implement "gayness" into the game and tried to persuade Bioware to follow their request (which included the wish for better German speech samples).



Well, times changed a bit since then...a little bit... because the homophobes are still trolling, the claims that homosexuality is not natural were also brought up etc.



The only thing that changed is, that there are more gays and lesbians out there speaking about what they would like to see and the numbers of supporting heterosexual persons (even straight men^^) increased over the years (Thank [insert here the entity you prefer]).



There is still much to be done, but to all the "I don't wanna have gay/ lesbian content in my game"-supporters, I would tell you one last thing:



Regardless if you were a straight woman or a man, would you like to have your child (who, by poetic justice, turns out gay or lesbian^^) grow up in a world, where it would be hated for what it is ?

[Wittand25]

Space Shot wrote...

  The difference between the direction of the two games lies solely with Bioware, and their decision not to make Shepard be a free canvas for unlimited personal expression.  He is a vessel for a story, one which you can polarize at your whims but one that you cannot completely define, none the less.  Like a more expressive Master Chief, Shepard will not be a perfect reflection of you or your own personality and so you should not express something as fundamental to that personality such as sexual preferences to be represented, fully, by "your" character.  This was plainly obvious in ME1, and your limitations to relationship with the opposite gender or a hermaphrodite, but it seems some people couldn't put that picture together and instead chose to fill it in with their own aspirations having few other promising outlets.)

 Shepard is exactly as predefined as the gray warden or the spiritmonk were and both could be gay if the player decided so. There is not a single piece of information in the game, the books, the comics or any other place I know of that prevents Shepard from beeing gay so saying that there is a storyreason for this is simply wrong.

[Allison W]

Others have said that the femShep-Liara relationship may not be "gay" for Liara (since Asari don't really have the same concept of sex or sexual orientation that other species do), but it is pretty clearly gay for femShep, unless you think a straight woman would actually be sexually attracted to Liara.

[didymos1120]

MPSai wrote...

Yeah exactly, if you don't want your Shepard to have a same-sex romance then... don't? Sides I think the majority of us would rather have a new love interest character for that side of things.

danman2424 wrote...

Of course it is, she's a female. The thought of male commander Shepard on his knees and.... no, just no.

So what he couldn't be on his knees with a woman either?

Maybe even that is just too "effeminate" to cope with.

Modifié par didymos1120, 27 février 2010 - 08:59 .

[Arik7]

danman2424 wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Allison W wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Uh you do realize that the first Mass
Effect was not published by EA?

That narrows it down to someone on the ME team, then.

Though it's worth noting that Ray's politician doublespeak about femShep and Liara being TOTALLY NOT GAY didn't come until after EA.

It was actually Casey Hudson who stated that FemShep/Liara relationship is not a female/female relationship, contradicting BioWare's own ME codex in the process.

I think EA has been very positive with same-sex marriages in the Sims 3, and they published DAO.  

The codex isn't necessarily well-written through and through. There are various incidents of dates contradicting each other and other anomalies. Technically the Asari cannot be all female, otherwise they would not be able to mate with each other.

I will agree that his excuse does sound like damage control, but it's not made completely invalid solely due to one misprint in the codex.

Misprint in the codex?  What?  Both the ME1 codex and ME2 codex explicitly state that the Asari is an all-Female race.  There's no ambiguity about it.   Hudson simply could not admit they were backtracking on lesbian romances.
 

[Kaiser Shepard]

sw33ts wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

To be quite honest, I find it rather difficult to be nice to a squaddie without ending up in a romance already. The last I need is more characters to be able to cause this "problem".

That's why we recommended coloring the romance option.  So you can't accidently start one.

Fair enough. Something like that should've been in the main game already.

[cutthecameras]

To anyone saying that Asari are not women: All I'm interested in is meeting a straight woman who saw Liara in ME1 and went "Oh wow! She's definitely my type!"



Also. We've seen many species comprised entirely of females...on Earth. Never does a species become entirely male, for obvious reasons.* If the Asari have been around for as long as they have it makes sense that at some point Asari males were left behind by evolution. My own personal theory.



*too bothered to post references that are obviously off-topic but just do a search for "all female species" on google and you'll see many instances of animals in nature that exhibit female + female reproduction with no males required or existing in their genus. This is what the Asari are supposed to be I think, on a sentient level.

[MPSai]

didymos1120 wrote...


Maybe even that is just too "effeminate" to cope with.

Yeah, REAL MEN don't bother with woman pleasin'. 

danman2424 wrote...

Technically the Asari cannot be all female, otherwise they would not be able to mate with each other.

Um, they reproduce through parthenogenesis, not through genitalia. It's even explained, they use their mind meld to take part of the genetic signature of a partner and then whip up an offspring based on that (probably so offspring aren't just clones.) So no, it is entirely possible for Asari to be all female since they don't reproduce through sexual intercourse.

[didymos1120]

Ah yes,  "predefined"...

I'll repost this from another thread:

Is
said character male or female?
Ugly, cute, pretty, beautiful, average?
Compassionate, Cruel, Forgiving, Vindictive?
Spacer, Colonist, Earthborn?
Sole Survivor, Ruthless, War Hero?
What's his/her first name?
Paragon or Renegade or something in between?
In a relationship? If so, with who out of, as it currently stands: Ashley, Liara, Kaidan, Thane, Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Tali?  More than one at any point? Did you give Samara/Morinth a shot?  How 'bout Kelly?
How did you decide on each of the, oh, hundreds of non-romantic dialogue choices/interrupts throughout both games?
What kind of armor do you like to wear in ME1?  ME2? What about your color scheme in the latter?
Got any fish or hamsters?
What's your class?  How 'bout your skill point distribution?
In what order do you do various missions in either game? How many side-quests did you do?
If female, asexual, bi, lesbian, or straight?
If male: asexual or straight? (Hey, wait, somethings different here...what could it be?)

Yeah, that's some damn sharp predefinition, I tell you what.

Modifié par didymos1120, 27 février 2010 - 09:03 .

[Space Shot]

Wittand25 wrote...

 Shepard is exactly as predefined as the gray warden or the spiritmonk were and both could be gay if the player decided so. There is not a single piece of information in the game, the books, the comics or any other place I know of that prevents Shepard from beeing gay so saying that there is a storyreason for this is simply wrong.

There's nothing barring Sam Fisher from being gay either but that does not mean that Ubisoft will break character and allow you to make that choice in Splinter Cell Conviction.  It's their decision not to move in that direction and I thought that, above all things, our society should respect the freedom of choice, be it on the part of the individual or the private organization.

Modifié par Space Shot, 27 février 2010 - 09:05 .

[Your Synthetic Superior]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Thane has yummy plum lips

Dude, they look hard like a beetle shell...

[didymos1120]

Arik7 wrote...
Misprint in the codex?  What?  Both the ME1 codex and ME2 codex explicitly state that the Asari is an all-Female race.  There's no ambiguity about it.   Hudson simply could not admit they were backtracking on lesbian romances.
 

Guess what: that entry is from the Primary Codex...which means it's voiced.