7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Sangheili_1337]

sw33ts wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Sangheili_1337 wrote...

Anyone who is against gay romance in Mass effect is prejudiced plain and simple. If you don"t care about it fine, whether it is included or not is not of your concern, but if you actively preach against it than there is something wrong with you. People who don't care about it do not have to undertake a gay romance if it is included while the people who do care about it would benefit. Its basically a win win situation in my view for everyone involved. Simply having a sexual orientation option from the very beginning would prevent any possible problems.

THIS.

No.  Not this.

Should we really stereotype them as all prejudice?  Let's not make it a habit of calling people names becuase they don't agree with us.  HONEY NOT VINEGAR.

I dont see any other reason for people to protest it. We arent talking about creating whole levels of content. It isnt going to take away from any other aspect of the game. If Bioware is willing to put forth the effort to include heterosexual and lesbian romances, than gay romances should not be a problem. It is simply a chain of dialogue and cutscenes. We know that Bioware included such content in ME 1 before cutting it so it is not like they were incapable of producing it.

[danman2424]

Lightice_av wrote...

lol. Now send me a credible source.

Data that is not to your liking must be false? What makes this an unbelievable source?

VGChartz is a banned site on most gaming sites such as neogaf. Their data is based completely on uneducated guessing. NPD even slapped a lawsuit on them once because they started to try and use NPD data in their estimates. Now they make their estimates a bit further off from NPD to avoid this.

Long story short, VGChartz is considered a joke and posting them as a source will get you banned at most gaming sites I've been to.

[Sabul]

danman2424 wrote...

lol. Now send me a credible source.

It is about as credible as these things are on the Internet. It is one of if  the more popular source for tracking video game sales. Various news organizations use their charts for sales data and all that. I am sure the owners are behind some elaborate conspiracy to make it seem like games with gay characters are popular though. I mean there is no chance anyone would buy these games after all. BioWare is just releasing an expansion for Dragon Age so soon because it has not been very profitable at all.

Modifié par Sabul, 27 février 2010 - 11:53 .

[Endurance_117]

I just looked at the chart on vg, ME is ahead of Dragon Age after 15-16 weeks?

Modifié par Endurance_117, 27 février 2010 - 11:55 .

[sw33ts]

Sangheili_1337 wrote...

sw33ts wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Sangheili_1337 wrote...

Anyone who is against gay romance in Mass effect is prejudiced plain and simple. If you don"t care about it fine, whether it is included or not is not of your concern, but if you actively preach against it than there is something wrong with you. People who don't care about it do not have to undertake a gay romance if it is included while the people who do care about it would benefit. Its basically a win win situation in my view for everyone involved. Simply having a sexual orientation option from the very beginning would prevent any possible problems.

THIS.

No.  Not this.

Should we really stereotype them as all prejudice?  Let's not make it a habit of calling people names becuase they don't agree with us.  HONEY NOT VINEGAR.

I dont see any other reason for people to protest it. We arent talking about creating whole levels of content. It isnt going to take away from any other aspect of the game. If Bioware is willing to put forth the effort to include heterosexual and lesbian romances, than gay romances should not be a problem. It is simply a chain of dialogue and cutscenes. We know that Bioware included such content in ME 1 before cutting it so it is not like they were incapable of producing it.

Well they could protest it due to their religion...which even though I'm an atheist I can see where they're coming from.  Are they prejudice or are they trying to save their own souls in a strange strange way?  Could it be that some gay/lesbian/bisexual did them wrong so now they disliek them?  Maybe that's it.  If that's it we're not going to win them over by calling them names.  We can carry this over into PMs if you like.

[Ryzaki]

Lightice_av wrote...

lol. Now send me a credible source.

Data that is not to your liking must be false? What makes this an unbelievable source?

Actually no gamer nerds inflate the ratings and the like on that site all the time. The NPD would be more credible.

[Sabul]

Endurance: The Dragon Age sales did not drop off. It is just not updated past a certain point while ME has been updated for longer. The website seems to update rather slowly.

Modifié par Sabul, 27 février 2010 - 11:57 .

[Sabul]

danman2424 wrote...

VGChartz is a banned site on most gaming sites such as neogaf. Their data is based completely on uneducated guessing. NPD even slapped a lawsuit on them once because they started to try and use NPD data in their estimates. Now they make their estimates a bit further off from NPD to avoid this.

Long story short, VGChartz is considered a joke and posting them as a source will get you banned at most gaming sites I've been to.

If they still base their charts off the NPD would it not be a valid representation of sales then? Granted it is not exact but few things online are.

[danman2424]

sw33ts wrote...

Sangheili_1337 wrote...

sw33ts wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Sangheili_1337 wrote...

Anyone who is against gay romance in Mass effect is prejudiced plain and simple. If you don"t care about it fine, whether it is included or not is not of your concern, but if you actively preach against it than there is something wrong with you. People who don't care about it do not have to undertake a gay romance if it is included while the people who do care about it would benefit. Its basically a win win situation in my view for everyone involved. Simply having a sexual orientation option from the very beginning would prevent any possible problems.

THIS.

No.  Not this.

Should we really stereotype them as all prejudice?  Let's not make it a habit of calling people names becuase they don't agree with us.  HONEY NOT VINEGAR.

I dont see any other reason for people to protest it. We arent talking about creating whole levels of content. It isnt going to take away from any other aspect of the game. If Bioware is willing to put forth the effort to include heterosexual and lesbian romances, than gay romances should not be a problem. It is simply a chain of dialogue and cutscenes. We know that Bioware included such content in ME 1 before cutting it so it is not like they were incapable of producing it.

Well they could protest it due to their religion...which even though I'm an atheist I can see where they're coming from.  Are they prejudice or are they trying to save their own souls in a strange strange way?  Could it be that some gay/lesbian/bisexual did them wrong so now they disliek them?  Maybe that's it.  If that's it we're not going to win them over by calling them names.  We can carry this over into PMs if you like.

I protest it in the game because I think it hurts the characters, and that the time and money it would take to add a gay romance would be better spent on adding another normal romance considering how the majority of the players will experience the game.

Outside of the game, I am conflicted by it because I find the justification for acceptance of homosexuality to be flimsy, and if it is not flimsy, at best it makes most of its supporters look like hypocrites. I would have to think a lot more about it before I conclusively decide which side of the fence I fall.

So ya. No religious reasons.

[danman2424]

Sabul wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

VGChartz is a banned site on most gaming sites such as neogaf. Their data is based completely on uneducated guessing. NPD even slapped a lawsuit on them once because they started to try and use NPD data in their estimates. Now they make their estimates a bit further off from NPD to avoid this.

Long story short, VGChartz is considered a joke and posting them as a source will get you banned at most gaming sites I've been to.

If they still base their charts off the NPD would it not be a valid representation of sales then? Granted it is not exact but few things online are.

They stopped basing them off of the NPD a long time ago. Like I said, they were slapped with a lawsuit.

[Ryzaki]

Sabul wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

VGChartz is a banned site on most gaming sites such as neogaf. Their data is based completely on uneducated guessing. NPD even slapped a lawsuit on them once because they started to try and use NPD data in their estimates. Now they make their estimates a bit further off from NPD to avoid this.

Long story short, VGChartz is considered a joke and posting them as a source will get you banned at most gaming sites I've been to.

If they still base their charts off the NPD would it not be a valid representation of sales then? Granted it is not exact but few things online are.

Not to mention if anything was inflated it was probably ME sales due to the first 13 weeks being an Xbox 360 exclusive. DA was multi-platorm. Those titles tend to be left alone because they serve no purpose in the whole console war nonsense. <_<

[Your Synthetic Superior]

Sangheili_1337 wrote...

Anyone who is against gay romance in Mass effect is prejudiced plain and simple. If you don"t care about it fine, whether it is included or not is not of your concern, but if you actively preach against it than there is something wrong with you. People who don't care about it do not have to undertake a gay romance if it is included while the people who do care about it would benefit. Its basically a win win situation in my view for everyone involved. Simply having a sexual orientation option from the very beginning would prevent any possible problems.

Exactly.

Anyone who plays a female Shephard and doesn't like Jacob is a racist. If you picked a raspy fished eyed lizard or a carapaced saurian turleoid over Jacob you hate all black people. If you complained about your femshep acting like a skank when talking to Jacob you are a racist. There is no other possible reason. Anyone who played a male Shepard and didn't take Jacob on every single mission is a bigot also. There is no reason not to take him. If your best bro isn't black or you don't spread your legs for any black guy that stares in your direction you're probably racist.
 

[Sabul]

danman2424 wrote...
I protest it in the game because I think it hurts the characters, and that the time and money it would take to add a gay romance would be better spent on adding another normal romance considering how the majority of the players will experience the game.

Are you a new account for a previous detractor? I swear I have read this arguments word for word so many times over. You have to have been the one to say it. Every time the fact these things were already developed and thus caused the money to be used gets overlooked. What about being attracted to their own gender hurts a character however?

[Sangheili_1337]

sw33ts wrote...

Sangheili_1337 wrote...

sw33ts wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Sangheili_1337 wrote...

Anyone who is against gay romance in Mass effect is prejudiced plain and simple. If you don"t care about it fine, whether it is included or not is not of your concern, but if you actively preach against it than there is something wrong with you. People who don't care about it do not have to undertake a gay romance if it is included while the people who do care about it would benefit. Its basically a win win situation in my view for everyone involved. Simply having a sexual orientation option from the very beginning would prevent any possible problems.

THIS.

No.  Not this.

Should we really stereotype them as all prejudice?  Let's not make it a habit of calling people names becuase they don't agree with us.  HONEY NOT VINEGAR.

I dont see any other reason for people to protest it. We arent talking about creating whole levels of content. It isnt going to take away from any other aspect of the game. If Bioware is willing to put forth the effort to include heterosexual and lesbian romances, than gay romances should not be a problem. It is simply a chain of dialogue and cutscenes. We know that Bioware included such content in ME 1 before cutting it so it is not like they were incapable of producing it.

Well they could protest it due to their religion...which even though I'm an atheist I can see where they're coming from.  Are they prejudice or are they trying to save their own souls in a strange strange way?  Could it be that some gay/lesbian/bisexual did them wrong so now they disliek them?  Maybe that's it.  If that's it we're not going to win them over by calling them names.  We can carry this over into PMs if you like.

I dont see how a gay person being a **** for example would give the other person the right to make a generalization of the group. Substitute random racial group in and I doubt you would disagree. Same goes for religion, I cant accept it as an excuse to discriminate against a whole demographic just because of who they are. I dont think we are going off topic so I dont think PMs are necessary but if you really want to than feel free. We simply debating on the possible reasons as to why people are against gay romances in Mass effect.

[didymos1120]

Endurance_117 wrote...
Mass Effect went against Call of Duty 4, Rock Band, Uncharted, Halo 3, Assassins Creed
Dragon Age went against Modern Warfare 2 and Assassins Creed 2

You can't really compare that

Nice cherry-picking. Shall we look at some more release dates? I arbitrarily started in late August and cut off at November, stuck to the more "big name" titles, and went multiplatform, but feel free to add more or restrict it to titles available on the 360 only. I don't think it makes much difference though:

Bioshock: Aug 21, 2007
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption: Aug 27, 2007
Heavenly Sword: Sept 12, 2007
Halo 3: Sept. 25, 2007
The Orange Box: Oct 10, 2007
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock: Oct 28, 2007
Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction: Oct 30, 2007
COD4: November 6, 2007
Super Mario Galaxy: Nov 10, 2007
Assassin's Creed: Nov 16, 2007
Uncharted: Nov. 19 2007
Rock Band: Nov 20, 2007
ME1: Nov. 20, 2007

and:

Batman: Arkham Asylum: Aug 25, 2009
The Beatles: Rock Band: Sept 9, 2009
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2: Sept 15, 2009
Halo 3: ODST: Sept 22, 2009
Uncharted 2: Oct 13, 2009
Borderlands: Oct 20, 2009
Fairytale Fights: Oct 27, 2009
Ratchet And Clank Future: Crack In Time: Oct 27, 2009
Dragon Age: Origins: Nov 3, 2009
COD: MW2 Nov 10,2009
New Super Mario Bros. Wii: Nov 15, 2009
AC2: Nov 17, 2009
Left 4 Dead 2: Nov 17, 2009

DA:O, if anything, had tougher competition, I'd say. Especially so what with the PS3 really catching up lately, and so many of DA:O's competitors being hugely anticipated sequels to many of those 2007 games.

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 février 2010 - 12:18 .

[Ryzaki]

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...

Sangheili_1337 wrote...

Anyone who is against gay romance in Mass effect is prejudiced plain and simple. If you don"t care about it fine, whether it is included or not is not of your concern, but if you actively preach against it than there is something wrong with you. People who don't care about it do not have to undertake a gay romance if it is included while the people who do care about it would benefit. Its basically a win win situation in my view for everyone involved. Simply having a sexual orientation option from the very beginning would prevent any possible problems.

Exactly.

Anyone who plays a female Shephard and doesn't like Jacob is a racist. If you picked a raspy fished eyed lizard or a carapaced saurian turleoid over Jacob you hate all black people. If you complained about your femshep acting like a skank when talking to Jacob you are a racist. There is no other possible reason. Anyone who played a male Shepard and didn't take Jacob on every single mission is a bigot also. There is no reason not to take him. If your best bro isn't black or you don't spread your legs for any black guy that stares in your direction you're probably racist.
 

Now I don't think the poster you're quoting is right. But that analogy of yours is made of fail.

If you play a female Shepard and don't like Jacob it could be for any reason. But if you insist he don't be put in the game because he's "silly" and a romance with him with a female Shep (or even a male) is silly and ridculous and comical then don't be surprised if someone goes. "What's wrong with him?"

"Well he's black silly! Black people can't have serious relationships with other people that gamers can take seriously!!! (Or heck replace other people with each other and its still ridculous) It would be COMICAL" 

Lol wut? 

Edit: Actually replace the he's black silly with this:  "Commander Shepard isn't black and a relationship with a black person would just look silly! Gamers wouldn't take the relationship seriously! It would be COMICAL! I'd laugh at it!!! Commander Shepard in a relationship with a black person would be comical and no one would take it seriously!!!" 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 février 2010 - 12:18 .

[Schneidend]

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...
Exactly.

You have a point. People who are against gay romances in a game are not necessarily prejudiced. The number of actual logical reasons why one would be against such content are still very limited, however. I'd say it's fairly clear that the inclusion of gay romance did not hinder Dragon Age sales, so that's not really an issue. The main issue would be production resources. But, considering the gay options have been produced but simply not enabled in both ME games, that's not really a factor, either, since Bioware made the content anyway and simply didn't make it part of the game except for the sound files and such.

[Endurance_117]

didymos1120 wrote...

Halo

Endurance_117 wrote...
Mass Effect went against Call of Duty 4, Rock Band, Uncharted, Halo 3, Assassins Creed
Dragon Age went against Modern Warfare 2 and Assassins Creed 2

You can't really compare that

Nice cherry-picking. Shall we look at some more release dates? I arbitrarily started in late August and cut off at November, stuck to the more "big name" titles, and went multiplatform, but feel free to add more or restrict it to titles available on the 360 only. I don't think it makes much difference though:

Bioshock: Aug 21, 2007
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption: Aug 27, 2007
Heavenly Sword: Sept 12, 2007
Halo 3: Sept. 25, 2007
The Orange Box: Oct 10, 2007
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock: Oct 28, 2007
Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction: Nov 30, 2007
COD4: November 6, 2007
Super Mario Galaxy: Nov 10, 2007
Assassin's Creed: Nov 16, 2007
Uncharted: Nov. 19 2007
Rock Band: Nov 20, 2007
ME1: Nov. 20, 2007

and:

Batman: Arkham Asylum: Aug 25, 2009
The Beatles: Rock Band: Sept 9, 2009
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2: Sept 15, 2009
Halo 3: ODST: Sept 22, 2009
Uncharted 2: Oct 13, 2009
Borderlands: Oct 20, 2009
Fairytale Fights: Oct 27, 2009
Ratchet And Clank Future: Crack In Time: Oct 27, 2009
Dragon Age: Origins: Nov 3, 2009
COD: MW2 Nov 10,2009
New Super Mario Bros. Wii: Nov 15, 2009
AC2: Nov 17, 2009
Left 4 Dead 2: Nov 17, 2009

DA:O, if anything, had tougher competition, I'd say. Especially so what with the PS3 really catching up lately, and so many of DA:O's competitors being hugely anticipated sequels to many of those 2007 games.

I put big games, you are putting all games on all systems

Halo 3 and ME are the only XBOX Exclusives on there. and not ME anymore. 

Modifié par Endurance_117, 28 février 2010 - 12:22 .

[didymos1120]

Endurance_117 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...
Mass Effect went against Call of Duty 4, Rock Band, Uncharted, Halo 3, Assassins Creed
Dragon Age went against Modern Warfare 2 and Assassins Creed 2

You can't really compare that

Nice cherry-picking. Shall we look at some more release dates? I arbitrarily started in late August and cut off at November, stuck to the more "big name" titles, and went multiplatform, but feel free to add more or restrict it to titles available on the 360 only. I don't think it makes much difference though:

Bioshock: Aug 21, 2007
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption: Aug 27, 2007
Heavenly Sword: Sept 12, 2007
Halo 3: Sept. 25, 2007
The Orange Box: Oct 10, 2007
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock: Oct 28, 2007
Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction: Nov 30, 2007
COD4: November 6, 2007
Super Mario Galaxy: Nov 10, 2007
Assassin's Creed: Nov 16, 2007
Uncharted: Nov. 19 2007
Rock Band: Nov 20, 2007
ME1: Nov. 20, 2007

and:

Batman: Arkham Asylum: Aug 25, 2009
The Beatles: Rock Band: Sept 9, 2009
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2: Sept 15, 2009
Halo 3: ODST: Sept 22, 2009
Uncharted 2: Oct 13, 2009
Borderlands: Oct 20, 2009
Fairytale Fights: Oct 27, 2009
Ratchet And Clank Future: Crack In Time: Oct 27, 2009
Dragon Age: Origins: Nov 3, 2009
COD: MW2 Nov 10,2009
New Super Mario Bros. Wii: Nov 15, 2009
AC2: Nov 17, 2009
Left 4 Dead 2: Nov 17, 2009

DA:O, if anything, had tougher competition, I'd say. Especially so what with the PS3 really catching up lately, and so many of DA:O's competitors being hugely anticipated sequels to many of those 2007 games.

I put big games, you are putting all games on all systems

Uh-huh.  Small time, every last one on those lists. 

ETA:  People don't have unlimited cash, either.  Competition is competition, 360 only or no.

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 février 2010 - 12:24 .

[Allison W]

danman2424 wrote...

sw33ts wrote...

Sangheili_1337 wrote...

sw33ts wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Sangheili_1337 wrote...

Anyone who is against gay romance in Mass effect is prejudiced plain and simple. If you don"t care about it fine, whether it is included or not is not of your concern, but if you actively preach against it than there is something wrong with you. People who don't care about it do not have to undertake a gay romance if it is included while the people who do care about it would benefit. Its basically a win win situation in my view for everyone involved. Simply having a sexual orientation option from the very beginning would prevent any possible problems.

THIS.

No.  Not this.

Should we really stereotype them as all prejudice?  Let's not make it a habit of calling people names becuase they don't agree with us.  HONEY NOT VINEGAR.

I dont see any other reason for people to protest it. We arent talking about creating whole levels of content. It isnt going to take away from any other aspect of the game. If Bioware is willing to put forth the effort to include heterosexual and lesbian romances, than gay romances should not be a problem. It is simply a chain of dialogue and cutscenes. We know that Bioware included such content in ME 1 before cutting it so it is not like they were incapable of producing it.

Well they could protest it due to their religion...which even though I'm an atheist I can see where they're coming from.  Are they prejudice or are they trying to save their own souls in a strange strange way?  Could it be that some gay/lesbian/bisexual did them wrong so now they disliek them?  Maybe that's it.  If that's it we're not going to win them over by calling them names.  We can carry this over into PMs if you like.

I protest it in the game because I think it hurts the characters, and that the time and money it would take to add a gay romance would be better spent on adding another normal romance considering how the majority of the players will experience the game.

Outside of the game, I am conflicted by it because I find the justification for acceptance of homosexuality to be flimsy, and if it is not flimsy, at best it makes most of its supporters look like hypocrites. I would have to think a lot more about it before I conclusively decide which side of the fence I fall.

So ya. No religious reasons.

Apparently you don't find the justification for persecution of homosexuality to be flimsy.

Also, why do you think it hurts the characters, especially considering the writers apparently didn't mind writing the content in the first place? And what time and money? In ME and ME2's cases, most of the material for the same-sex romances is actually present, and beyond that, a character being bisexual (which many of the squadmates were originally written to be) requires very little in the way of new audio recording or scripting, since a lot of it can be reused from the M/F romance with the same character. Also, I find it interesting how instead of just saying "straight," which is the commonly accepted term, you used "normal."

[Endurance_117]

didymos1120 wrote...

Uh-huh.  Small time, every last one on those lists. 

Yeah because going against Halo 3 for an  Xbox Exclusive isn't suicide

[IngoLoema]

[/quote]
Also, I find it interesting how instead of just saying "straight," which is the commonly accepted term, you used "normal."
[/quote]

EXACTLY.

[Ryzaki]

IngoLoema wrote...


Also, I find it interesting how instead of just saying "straight," which is the commonly accepted term, you used "normal."


EXACTLY.

Oh snap. I just realized that! LOL so much for lacking prejudice huh?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 février 2010 - 12:25 .

[Sabul]

Endurance_117 wrote...

Yeah because going against Halo 3 for an  Xbox Exclusive isn't suicide

You are overlooking that fact that prior to ME2 Mass Effect was an RPG not a shooter. So it would not really be going against Halo 3. Since the Halo market was not the market the game was designed to appeal to.

[DaeJi]

There's a lot of anger in these posts; ease up people, no need to get upset.