7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Grizzly46]

Lightice_av wrote...

You are putting too much emphasis on something that is simply not important.

People have different senses of priority. Personally I find the romance subplot to give Shepard some depth of character that s/he is otherwise sorely lacking, something to humanize him/her beyond the simple heroic image.

Simple heroic image? Geez, in every conversation you have, you have at least two options on how th react and respond, giving you virtually endless of pieces to the puzzle that is Shepard, including if he/she actually is a shining hero type or a badass mf. And those things DO matter, moreso than the kind of people Shepard could possibly want to sleep with.

To put it another way: You don't have a choice in your species either - you are always a human. You don't have a choice in SHepard's intelligence level - it is always displayed as in how Shepard talks with his/hers peers (and I would like Shepard to be a grinning idiot). You don't have choice in what Shepard's military background is - you are always a Spec Op operative (and I wanted to be a tank driver). You don't even get to pick Shepard's favourite colour (and I want it to be light brown).

And you people complain about a miniscule part of the game that has no effect on the story? The only game sexual orientation does have an effect and is important would be The Sims, but that is an entirely different kind of game too*.

Actually, I think that if there were gay people in the game, then you could have the right to complain. But then I would complain if I couldn't set my Shepard up to what turns him on or off (MILFs, blonde hair, freckles, etc), and then we would be back at that damn dollhouse game again.

There are tons of RPG games out there that don't let you choose your sexual orientation but virtually everything else, and they don't get these complaints, simply because the players realize that those things wouldn't matter. And it doesn't in ME either. 


* For a pretty nice depiction of a gay non-PC character, check out Phantasmagoria 2. I was surprised they managed to pull that one off as they did.

[Endurance_117]

Sabul wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

Yeah because going against Halo 3 for an  Xbox Exclusive isn't suicide

You are overlooking that fact that prior to ME2 Mass Effect was an RPG not a shooter. So it would not really be going against Halo 3. Since the Halo market was not the market the game was designed to appeal to.

It doesn't matter what genre it was/is. All games types where pushed back or forward by Halo 3 and Modern Warfare 2 coming out. It didn't matter if it was a rpg or not.

Modifié par Endurance_117, 28 février 2010 - 12:29 .

[DaeJi]

Grizzly46 wrote...

Simple heroic image? Geez, in every conversation you have, you have at least two options on how th react and respond, giving you virtually endless of pieces to the puzzle that is Shepard, including if he/she actually is a shining hero type or a badass mf. And those things DO matter, moreso than the kind of people Shepard could possibly want to sleep with.

To put it another way: You don't have a choice in your species either - you are always a human. You don't have a choice in SHepard's intelligence level - it is always displayed as in how Shepard talks with his/hers peers (and I would like Shepard to be a grinning idiot). You don't have choice in what Shepard's military background is - you are always a Spec Op operative (and I wanted to be a tank driver). You don't even get to pick Shepard's favourite colour (and I want it to be light brown).

And you people complain about a miniscule part of the game that has no effect on the story? The only game sexual orientation does have an effect and is important would be The Sims, but that is an entirely different kind of game too*.

Actually, I think that if there were gay people in the game, then you could have the right to complain. But then I would complain if I couldn't set my Shepard up to what turns him on or off (MILFs, blonde hair, freckles, etc), and then we would be back at that damn dollhouse game again.

There are tons of RPG games out there that don't let you choose your sexual orientation but virtually everything else, and they don't get these complaints, simply because the players realize that those things wouldn't matter. And it doesn't in ME either. 


* For a pretty nice depiction of a gay non-PC character, check out Phantasmagoria 2. I was surprised they managed to pull that one off as they did.

Romance is important to the Mass Effect fanbase. Look at all the threads on it, the fact that they added Tali and Garrus to the love interest pool due to fan desire, the fan clubs, etc. It may not matter to the overall game, but it matters to the players.

[didymos1120]

Endurance_117 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Uh-huh.  Small time, every last one on those lists. 

Yeah because going against Halo 3 for an  Xbox Exclusive isn't suicide

Well, ME was released nearly two months later, you know (Look at the list: I included dates!).  I only used as wide a date range as I did because you threw Halo 3 in there as an example of competition in the first place.  You'd have more of a point had they been released within days of one another.

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 février 2010 - 12:33 .

[Endurance_117]

didymos1120 wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Uh-huh.  Small time, every last one on those lists. 

Yeah because going against Halo 3 for an  Xbox Exclusive isn't suicide

Well, ME was released nearly two months later, you know (Look at the list: I included dates!).  I only used as wide a date range as I did because you threw Halo 3 in there as an example of competition in the first place.  You'd have more of a point had they been released within days of one another.

Yes and Halo 3 was still selling ridiculously well 

[Schneidend]

Sabul wrote...
You are overlooking that fact that prior to ME2 Mass Effect was an RPG not a shooter. So it would not really be going against Halo 3. Since the Halo market was not the market the game was designed to appeal to.

If ME2 is somehow "not an RPG" you'd better inform Steam, game news sites, and just about every retailer out there, digital, physical or otherwise. They seem to have mislabeled the game as an RPG, those rascals.

[didymos1120]

Grizzly46 wrote...
And you people complain about a miniscule part of the game that has no effect on the story?

What do you mean "you people"?

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 février 2010 - 12:38 .

[Sabul]

Grizzly46: I may look into these games. Would probably need to use one of my older computers to run them though. Still is worth looking into. Thank you very much.

[didymos1120]

Endurance_117 wrote...
Yes and Halo 3 was still selling ridiculously well 

And likewise, when DA:O came out, all those games I listed for 2009 were still selling well, or shortly thereafter would begin to sell well.  Many ridiculously so.

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 février 2010 - 12:41 .

[Sabul]

Schneidend wrote...

If ME2 is somehow "not an RPG" you'd better inform Steam, game news sites, and just about every retailer out there, digital, physical or otherwise. They seem to have mislabeled the game as an RPG, those rascals.

Oh u. I am one of those people who was not very keen on all the changes to appeal to the shooter crowd. I miss my character customization and so on. Things people take for granted in most RPG's.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I'm for same-sex relationships hell all but 1 of my femSheps went with Liara. Now as straight man I don't have a problem with m/m relationships, but let me ask those who are against same-sex relationships in Mass Effect this question: most of you don't have a problem with a male Shepard having sex with Tali, an alien from different DNA, cultures, societies, religions, and etc. If you can accept that aliens from another world can have sex with a human and you don't have a problem with it, what is wrong with two human males or two human females enjoying each other's company?

The beauty of really great science fiction and fantasy is that it is a mirror on our world and if you can accept inter-specious relationships in science fiction and fantasy stories then maybe it's it time to explore same sex relationships.

I guess what I'm saying is this: love no bounds. It cares nothing for one's gender, nationally, religion, personal politics, or anything. Love conquers all.   

[jkapp]

not only should bioware continue incorporating same-sex romances to please homosexuals and those interested in experiencing a gay perspective, but, more importantly, they should include same-sex romance in order to erode the negativity and contempt some individuals have against homosexuality.   i believe this whole forum topic proves that bioware has not only stood as a game developer, but also a developer that has eroded negativity in regards to minority related aspects in individual lives.  while there still remains those of us who are still rather close minded, i guarantee that bioware's exposure to gay romance has made some people rethink their views on the subject.  lastly, while i personally believe my sexual orientation is irrelevant, for those of you who will automatically label me as gay and thus disregard my opinion, i am straight.

[Grizzly46]

DaeJi wrote...

Grizzly46 wrote...

Simple heroic image? Geez, in every conversation you have, you have at least two options on how th react and respond, giving you virtually endless of pieces to the puzzle that is Shepard, including if he/she actually is a shining hero type or a badass mf. And those things DO matter, moreso than the kind of people Shepard could possibly want to sleep with.

To put it another way: You don't have a choice in your species either - you are always a human. You don't have a choice in SHepard's intelligence level - it is always displayed as in how Shepard talks with his/hers peers (and I would like Shepard to be a grinning idiot). You don't have choice in what Shepard's military background is - you are always a Spec Op operative (and I wanted to be a tank driver). You don't even get to pick Shepard's favourite colour (and I want it to be light brown).

And you people complain about a miniscule part of the game that has no effect on the story? The only game sexual orientation does have an effect and is important would be The Sims, but that is an entirely different kind of game too*.

Actually, I think that if there were gay people in the game, then you could have the right to complain. But then I would complain if I couldn't set my Shepard up to what turns him on or off (MILFs, blonde hair, freckles, etc), and then we would be back at that damn dollhouse game again.

There are tons of RPG games out there that don't let you choose your sexual orientation but virtually everything else, and they don't get these complaints, simply because the players realize that those things wouldn't matter. And it doesn't in ME either. 


* For a pretty nice depiction of a gay non-PC character, check out Phantasmagoria 2. I was surprised they managed to pull that one off as they did.

Romance is important to the Mass Effect fanbase. Look at all the threads on it, the fact that they added Tali and Garrus to the love interest pool due to fan desire, the fan clubs, etc. It may not matter to the overall game, but it matters to the players.

As usual, I found Mass Effect about a year or so after everybody else (I swear I will be late for my own funeral) so I wasn't really aware of that. When I played ME1, I found Tali to be quite boring frankly - she had a lot less to say than Garrus, Wrex or the inevitable LIs, so I can't understand the fascination for a ME1 Tali. Garrus had more to say and had more of a personality, but to put it bluntly, he is ugly as hell.

It is to me strange that a sci-fi RPG could do this, especially since the love plots are so small parts of the game - people really need to focus on what does matter, which is the saren/geth/collectors/reapers plot.

Now, I wouldn't say anything if this would matter for a deeper background for Shepard, or if there were other relationships in the game that would be comparable (Shepard steps into Udina's office where he kisses a woman who then disappears with the words 'and don't forget to buy milk honey!'), but it doesn't. Nobody gives a flying f who or what Shepard is turned on by. Or shouldn't at least.

If there had been no chance to romance anyone, would you people (ie, all you people complaining about this) complain about the lack of romance in the first place?

Modifié par Grizzly46, 28 février 2010 - 12:56 .

[Grizzly46]

jkapp wrote...

not only should bioware continue incorporating same-sex romances to please homosexuals and those interested in experiencing a gay perspective, but, more importantly, they should include same-sex romance in order to erode the negativity and contempt some individuals have against homosexuality.   i believe this whole forum topic proves that bioware has not only stood as a game developer, but also a developer that has eroded negativity in regards to minority related aspects in individual lives.  while there still remains those of us who are still rather close minded, i guarantee that bioware's exposure to gay romance has made some people rethink their views on the subject.  lastly, while i personally believe my sexual orientation is irrelevant, for those of you who will automatically label me as gay and thus disregard my opinion, i am straight.

Nonsense. It is not up to game designers to change people's viewpoints. They have no obligation whatsoever to do so.

[Ryzaki]

^Uh yeah tis a BioWare game! Have you seen the screaming about the lack of romances in DA:A?

Edit: wrong post. I meant about the complaining. >_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 février 2010 - 12:54 .

[Arik7]

Grizzly46 wrote...

jkapp wrote...

not only should bioware continue incorporating same-sex romances to please homosexuals and those interested in experiencing a gay perspective, but, more importantly, they should include same-sex romance in order to erode the negativity and contempt some individuals have against homosexuality.   i believe this whole forum topic proves that bioware has not only stood as a game developer, but also a developer that has eroded negativity in regards to minority related aspects in individual lives.  while there still remains those of us who are still rather close minded, i guarantee that bioware's exposure to gay romance has made some people rethink their views on the subject.  lastly, while i personally believe my sexual orientation is irrelevant, for those of you who will automatically label me as gay and thus disregard my opinion, i am straight.

Nonsense. It is not up to game designers to change people's viewpoints. They have no obligation whatsoever to do so.

Nobody is saying they have an obligation to do so.   jkapp says they SHOULD do it.   Promotion of tolerance is just one of many reasons for doing so.

Modifié par Arik7, 28 février 2010 - 01:02 .

[jkapp]

Grizzly46 wrote...

Nonsense. It is not up to game designers to change people's viewpoints. They have no obligation whatsoever to do so.

they don't have an obligation; no one has an obligation to do anything, but by incorporating homosexuality into mainstream media, it can continue to erode the intolerance in regards to gays.  

Modifié par jkapp, 28 février 2010 - 01:09 .

[Arik7]

RPGs always deal with many moral issues, some of which are not black and white(e.g. the genophage). It would be totally appropriate for the devs to tackle the same-sex issue in the ME games. Although, you'd think it wouldn't be an issue in the context of all the non-reproductive relationships with aliens.

Modifié par Arik7, 28 février 2010 - 01:15 .

[sw33ts]

danman2424 wrote...
I protest it in the game because I think it hurts the characters, and that the time and money it would take to add a gay romance would be better spent on adding another normal romance considering how the majority of the players will experience the game.

Outside of the game, I am conflicted by it because I find the justification for acceptance of homosexuality to be flimsy, and if it is not flimsy, at best it makes most of its supporters look like hypocrites. I would have to think a lot more about it before I conclusively decide which side of the fence I fall.

So ya. No religious reasons.

I never said that was your reason...sooo I think it's interesting you responded to it saying that nah it's not cause of religous reasons.

And why do you think it hurts characters?  They're fictional dots on the screen.  None of them flat out ever says YO SHEPARD I'M STRAIGHT DUDE.  As for time and money Kaidan and Ashley are pretty much ready for use if you know how to mod the game the other three, Jack, Thane and Tali are not.  But it really wouldn't be a waste of time or money since I've run into a lot of STRAIGHT males who play femshep and want to romance Tali as a FemShep.  And I've run into even MORE people who could give a flying rats ass on weither it's in the game or no.  I'll have to go look for the poll, if it still exists.

We're not going to bring up outside of the game because this topic isn't about that.  I will however state I think it's silly to think that acceptance of homosexuality if "flimsy" and if you could explain to me in a PM why you think that.

Modifié par sw33ts, 28 février 2010 - 01:22 .

[FataliTensei]

http://social.biowar...984/polls/2730/

Here's mine, it's the most recent one

Edit: I think it's the most recent one, I made it only like...2 days ago

Modifié par FataliTensei, 28 février 2010 - 01:27 .

[didymos1120]

People have repeatedly asked danman to elaborate on why it's "comical" for MShep to be gay and why it would damage the "credibility" of Mass Effect if he were. He never does, and simply repeats those claims over and over. It's why I just stopped responding to him.

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 février 2010 - 01:27 .

[sw33ts]

FataliTensei wrote...

http://social.biowar...984/polls/2730/

Here's mine, it's the most recent one

Edit: I think it's the most recent one, I made it only like...2 days ago

It wasn't that one.  I think the one I'm thinking of nolonger exists, but thanks.

[tyddrwsau]

Grizzly46 wrote...
To put it another way: You don't have a choice in your species either - you are always a human. You don't have a choice in SHepard's intelligence level - it is always displayed as in how Shepard talks with his/hers peers (and I would like Shepard to be a grinning idiot). You don't have choice in what Shepard's military background is - you are always a Spec Op operative (and I wanted to be a tank driver). You don't even get to pick Shepard's favourite colour (and I want it to be light brown).

But you do get to choose who Shepard romances. There are currently nine options plus your secretary that span heterosexual, bisexual or lesbian female, and xenophilic Shepards. The same-sex male option is apparent in its absence. That's our point. You don't get to choose the things you cited, no. But you do get to pick your choice of romance unless you want to play a gay or bi male Shepard. Hence, our advocacy.

didymos1120 wrote...
And likewise, when DA:O came out, all those games I listed for 2009
were still selling well, or shortly thereafter would begin to sell
well.  Many ridiculously so.

And 2009 was a painful recessionary year. The gaming industry seems to have done OK despite that, but folk are still prioritizing how they spend. Fall 09 wasn't exactly "happy surplus income time!" compared to Fall 07.

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...
I guess what I'm saying is this: love no bounds. It cares nothing for
one's gender, nationally, religion, personal politics, or anything.
Love conquers all.   

Thank you.

Grizzly46 wrote...
If there had been no chance to romance anyone, would you people (ie,
all you people complaining about this) complain about the lack of
romance in the first place?

Depends. Let's take the Metroid franchise. Samus Aran is a totally predetermined character, we don't get to choose anything about her, and she's still cool. I don't see as she needs to have a power armor off love interlude. (But geez, my Shepard would love a bounty hunter like her on the team! Talk about top notch...) A story doesn't need the love story component to have interest. Nor does a character need to be defined by love. Heck, if Mass Effect had Shepard had a canonical spouse at home whom we didn't get to pick, that could have worked too. BioWare instead likes to write interesting characters and give us a chance to pick which one to woo. I like that about their design style. I think m/m options should be in the mix. Hence, I'm advocating that this be ameliorated. QED

[Arik7]

didymos1120 wrote...

People have repeatedly asked danman to elaborate on why it's "comical" for MShep to be gay and why it would damage the "credibility" of Mass Effect if he were. He never does, and simply repeats those claims over and over. It's why I just stopped responding to him.

He also claims that Asari being an all-female race is a "misprint" in the Codex, and  that same-sex recordings on M1/ME2 disks are "impersonations".     Did you expect anything more? 

Modifié par Arik7, 28 février 2010 - 01:41 .

[jkapp]

danman2424 wrote...

So ya. No religious reasons.

religion has nothing to do with contempt for homosexuality?  you are very naive my friend.

Leviticus  20:13[/b] If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

alas, this out lies the parameters of the topic of discussion, hopefully religion will not be brought up again.