7455 réponses à ce sujet

[IngoLoema]

"To me it is no stranger than them leaving out a sexual relationship with Shepard's mother."



Nice answer for the 21. century :-(...seriously, I hope, one day you wake up and find out that one of your children is gay.

[didymos1120]

Thunderblarg wrote...
What does Homosexual romance have to do with shagging your mom?

I think it's supposed to be a clever analogy.  

[padawanmage]

I fully support this posting.



"I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite posting on this forum!"



=)

[Ryzaki]

didymos1120 wrote...

Thunderblarg wrote...
What does Homosexual romance have to do with shagging your mom?

I think it's supposed to be a clever analogy.  

...I fear for those who have to listen to his jokes if that's the case.

[Arik7]

Grizzly46 wrote...

Ok, a lot of opinions around, and I'm getting nowhere. I'd just like to reiterate what I have stated before: I do support gays, and I don't mind if people want that option. But then, argue with the developers of the games. I just think the entire topic feels so unnecessary, when the entire romancing thing is such a small part of a game with a much grander scope.

If a romance would have any form of impact on the game, the background or the future (ie, future games set in the same universe) then I would be all for it, but it doesn't matter if you bang the consort; it doesn't matter if you bed Garrus, Jack or anyone else, not in the long run and not for the sfate of the galaxy. Mass Effect is the wrong kind of game to get all these involvements in - which is why my canonical Shepard is indeed a heterosexual, but one who does not flirt with his team members.

"Come on, Kaidan.  I can get a solute from anyone on this ship.   Sometimes I need a shoulder...." - Commander Shepard

Modifié par Arik7, 28 février 2010 - 02:26 .

[Ryzaki]

[didymos1120]

Grizzly46 wrote...
 I just think the entire topic feels so unnecessary, when the entire romancing thing is such a small part of a game with a much grander scope.

And what, pray tell, does qualify as a "necessary" topic on a forum for discussing a particular video game?

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 février 2010 - 02:25 .

[Ryzaki]

didymos1120 wrote...

Grizzly46 wrote...
 I just think the entire topic feels so unnecessary, when the entire romancing thing is such a small part of a game with a much grander scope.

And what, pray tell, does qualify as a "necessary" topic on forum for discussing a particular video game?

Apparently the only thing that should be open is the Tech forums.

[jlb524]

Grizzly46 wrote...

If a romance would have any form of impact on the game, the background or the future (ie, future games set in the same universe) then I would be all for it, but it doesn't matter if you bang the consort; it doesn't matter if you bed Garrus, Jack or anyone else, not in the long run and not for the sfate of the galaxy. Mass Effect is the wrong kind of game to get all these involvements in - which is why my canonical Shepard is indeed a heterosexual, but one who does not flirt with his team members.

Most people playing the game are not just satisfied with their Shepard being straight or gay or bisexual or whatever.  They also want to experience this through a romance.  You just choose not to which is fine.  Most people that play ME2 choose a romance.

It wouldn't matter if BW didn't include romances at all.  But they included six hetero options so it does matter.  Straight!Shepard can experience their sexuality on another level in game while Gay!Shepard cannot.

Modifié par jlb524, 28 février 2010 - 02:29 .

[Erode_The_Soul]

Grizzly46 wrote...

Ok, a lot of opinions around, and I'm getting nowhere. I'd just like to reiterate what I have stated before: I do support gays, and I don't mind if people want that option. But then, argue with the developers of the games. I just think the entire topic feels so unnecessary, when the entire romancing thing is such a small part of a game with a much grander scope. 

But...that's why this topic exists The developers are on here frequently, and this is the most direct and efficient way to speak with them and let them know our feelings on the matter. We just want to let them know that the content would be appreciated were they to implement it in DLC or in ME3.

[Ninja Mage]

Zevran wasn't a joke to me he was campy but he was a sexy character if you actually romanced him and found out how he really was

[jkapp]

Grizzly46 wrote...

jkapp wrote...

Grizzly46 wrote...

Oki... The world we are living in has a lot of problems - violence, drugs, intolerance towards gay people... How about the game adresses some of these other issues as well?

You are lobbying for a gay friendlier climate; me myself, I consider real-world violence to be a bigger problem, so should I start lobbying for the game makers to stop including violence in their games? You know, to reinforce the antipathy against violence?

Or drugs for crying out loud! Drugs are bad, my brother is a half-junkie, drugs messes people up. Why weren't drugs included in Mass Effect so we could see the devastating effects of drug abuse? They mention drugs in passing, sure, but we never get to see any of it, and we can't let Shepard lock himself in the bathroom to warm a teaspoon of white powder in some water to later pass out in a pile of his own vomits, so we can really see the disgusting effects of drug use. I demand action! Shame on you Bioware!

*sigh* See where I'm going with this? Its exactly the same thing as the gay lobby is doing.

we are not talking about games, we are talking about ME2.  furthermore, violence and drugs are not at all related to opinions regarding gays, which is a social issue. opinions on homosexuality revolve around irrationality while drugs revolve around self choice.  violence exists whether there are video games or not, and hardly does ME induce people to commit violence; u are trying to save the universe if u failed to notice. 

If you haven't noticed, Mass Effect 2 is a game. FYI.

Drugs and violence were two examples I brought up as comparisons - I could have mentioned the world's overpopulation, pullution, trafficking, you name it. There are tons of problems in today's society.

Since I'm in an example mood, lets take something else: I have glasses. Thick, coke bottle bottom glasses, world record thickness. Really bad case of nearsightedness, really blind without them. Still, I have yet to see anyone in ME wearing them. Or sitting in a wheelchair. Having lost a limb. And don't tell me its because the terrific medical science have cured them all, because then they would probably have 'cured' homosexuality as well (ok, a low blow, I admit that). But handicaps or disabilities don't exist as something we can experience in ME - I can't put a pair of glasses on my Shepard, and Shepard will never, no matter how shot up he ever will be, loose any limbs. It is simply something we have to live with.

#1: i was saying "games" as in plural.  u were talking about games overall, not just ME franchise or bioware and their other games

#2:  we are talking about the misconception and irrationality about homosexuals and why bioware broke the tradition they have included in almost all of their games, which was including homosexuality. furthermore, u fail to even touch the surface of all the moral issues ME embraces. 

#3: ok, i wear glasses too.  idk about u, but i am not ousted by society because i am *gasp* a glasses wearer; having glasses in the game accomplishes nothing and is just extra work for the developers.  as for the comment regarding "curing" homosexuality, there is nothing to cure unless u want to give them the feat of reproduction; altho as u mentioned, maybe they didn't because of overpopulation (sarcasm)???? also, as for medical treatment, do u fail to notice joker's condition? 

[Ninja Mage]

Heavy Rain froze on me and I can't even load the damn game...

[Ryzaki]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Zevran wasn't a joke to me he was campy but he was a sexy character if you actually romanced him and found out how he really was

Actually I no longer like Zevran. Not after reading that thread about how he could be interpreted as a rapist. That to me was way past the moral event horizon line. So yeah...I'm going to slit his little slimy throat on all my other playthroughs just like I do Vaughn.

Anyways. Anyone have any ideas for DLC pricing of the same sex romance package? 

[Erode_The_Soul]

Ninja Mage wrote...


Heavy Rain froze on me and I can't even load the damn game...

Just got home an hour ago from purchasing said game, but it turns out my TV is too crappy to read the tiny text

EDIT:

Ryzaki wrote...
Anyways. Anyone have any ideas for DLC pricing of the same sex romance package? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]

I'm pretty cheap, so I'd say around 250 - 500MS points

Modifié par Erode_The_Soul, 28 février 2010 - 02:37 .

[Some Geth]

jlb524 wrote...

Grizzly46 wrote...

If a romance would have any form of impact on the game, the background or the future (ie, future games set in the same universe) then I would be all for it, but it doesn't matter if you bang the consort; it doesn't matter if you bed Garrus, Jack or anyone else, not in the long run and not for the sfate of the galaxy. Mass Effect is the wrong kind of game to get all these involvements in - which is why my canonical Shepard is indeed a heterosexual, but one who does not flirt with his team members.

Most people playing the game are not just satisfied with their Shepard being straight or gay or bisexual or whatever.  They also want to experience this through a romance.  You just choose not to which is fine.  Most people that play ME2 choose a romance.

It wouldn't matter if BW didn't include romances at all.  But they included six hetero options so it does matter.  Straight!Shepard can experience their sexuality on another level in game while Gay!Shepard cannot.

If gay Shepard has a anyone like Zevran In ME3 I will think BioWare hates gays 

[Jimmy Fury]

Grizzly46 wrote...
If a romance would have any form of impact on the game, the background or the future (ie, future games set in the same universe) then I would be all for it, but it doesn't matter if you bang the consort; it doesn't matter if you bed Garrus, Jack or anyone else, not in the long run and not for the sfate of the galaxy. Mass Effect is the wrong kind of game to get all these involvements in - which is why my canonical Shepard is indeed a heterosexual, but one who does not flirt with his team members.

That's a fine reason.
Many people see the romances in the game as important aspects of character development and drama. Romances involve new dialogue that deepens the characters, some choices become more difficult when personal feelings are involved in choices Shepard must make (Virmire for example), and with the plot of ME2 (vague to avoid spoilers) romancing a squad member can add another dimension to the sense of urgency and danger that is already present.

If you don't want to bother with the romances then great, nothing we're asking for would force you to do so. But is that really a good reason to deny it to those players who want to explore that side of the story? I'm with you. I've played both games without a romance.
But I'd also like to see how the story goes, how it feels, and what kind of impact it creates in me, if Shepard is in love. In order to do this I need a romance option that I can connect to. I could play as straight shep, but it would mean less to me because I can't empathize with those feelings any more than you could empathize with a gay character. I could certainly sympathize, but empathy is much more personal. That's all we're asking for.

[danman2424]

didymos1120 wrote...

Thunderblarg wrote...
What does Homosexual romance have to do with shagging your mom?

I think it's supposed to be a clever analogy.  

Yup. It is a direct analogy to one "sexual relationship that we should all accept as long as it doesn't hurt anyone because love conquers all and it's none of your business what people do in the privacy of their own homes ....", to another.

If you consider it valid to call those against homosexuality in Mass Effect as being close-minded bigots, then it is valid to put the same title on you for not tolerating another sexual preference.

Modifié par danman2424, 28 février 2010 - 02:42 .

[Allison W]

danman2424 wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

People have repeatedly asked danman to elaborate on why it's "comical" for MShep to be gay and why it would damage the "credibility" of Mass Effect if he were. He never does, and simply repeats those claims over and over. It's why I just stopped responding to him.

He also claims that Asari being an all-female race is a "misprint" in the Codex, and  that same-sex recordings on M1/ME2 disks are "impersonations".     Did you expect anything more? 

Didymos, there is no explaining why something is comical, it just is. If there were a thread with midgets complaining about not being represented in the game or not being able make "their" shepard the way they are, I would probably give them the same answer. Why would midget Shepard be funny? I can't answer that. It just would be. Although I'm sure they would be just as clueless as to why that is comical as you are.

Arik7, I believe it to be misprint because at the time of writing it, I'm sure they didn't expect it to be taken so literally. Yes, Asari all look like human females. In that regard they are an all female race in our eyes. WE would see them as an all-female race. However, being that there is no male counterpart, there is no need for the distinction of being female. It would be like if a race with 3 sexes where their third sex looks just like human males, came up to you and said you look like an *insert name of third sex* and you would say "but no, I'm male, I'm not *insert name of third sex*". To them you're not male, but to you that doesn't mean anything because in your race, there are only 2 sexes and you are male.

That's probably all really confusing but I hope you can understand why "all-female race" makes sense as a description of the Asari to a human but isn't really valid in a literal sense.

As for the last part, all of the supposed dialogue I've seen has been ripped out of the straight romances. I still haven't seen any indication that a gay romance was completed and on disc. If Bioware comes out and says that's the case, then I'll believe that's the case, but not because I saw a few mods where they got the guy in Chora's Den to recognize Shepard as a female and speak to him as one. Or that made Kaidan recite his femshep romance dialogue to male Shepard. I've seen way crazier and funnier mods than that.

None of this business about whether Asari are "female" or "sexless" does anything to debunk the fact that a femShep getting with Liara is clearly gay or bi.

Also, you're ignoring the fact that the Shepards have recorded audio for the same-sex romances in which they refer to the LI by name, clearly in the context of the romance. The squad members generally call Shepard "Shepard" regardless of Shepard's gender (which, among other things, means that same-sex romances are not nearly as zots-consuming as you make them out to be, particularly when added to a companion that already has an opposite-sex romance).

danman2424 wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

Creating
content to tackle real-life issues and wrapping the story around the
them isn't really the same as excluding content that arguably should
have been there in the first place.

When a large portion of the
game is based on relationships and romance, it's a bit strange that
homosexuality gets left out (or cut out) for no apparent
reason.

Maybe to you. To me it is no stranger than them leaving
out a sexual relationship with Shepard's mother. I don't think it
belongs in the game at all, even if there is a community of incestuous
people that thinks it does belong.

So do you think heterosexuality belongs in the game? Why do heterosexuals have to rub their heterosexuality in everyone's faces? It seems like every developer thinks the cool thing to do to whatever they're working on is to add heterosexuality, like it's the new black or something. I really don't want to see that. If they like members of the opposite sex, that's their business, just like if they like family members or animals or whatever, but when are they going to stop shoving it down my throat?

[didymos1120]

Ninja Mage wrote...


Heavy Rain froze on me and I can't even load the damn game...

So it's turned into Heavy Snow?

[jlb524]

Allison W wrote...

So do you think heterosexuality belongs in the game? Why do heterosexuals have to rub their heterosexuality in everyone's faces? It seems like every developer thinks the cool thing to do to whatever they're working on is to add heterosexuality, like it's the new black or something. I really don't want to see that. If they like members of the opposite sex, that's their business, just like if they like family members or animals or whatever, but when are they going to stop shoving it down my throat?

This is true.  BW could have made ME with no romances or romantic situations.  But they did and the vast majority of it is heterosexual.   The forced FemShep/Jacob flirting is kind of a ridiculous example of this...it's almost impossible to avoid a heterosexual situation with this dialog.

[Some Geth]

They have had no same-sex love at all in ME so why start in ME3 btw just my view

[FataliTensei]

Some Geth wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Grizzly46 wrote...

If a romance would have any form of impact on the game, the background or the future (ie, future games set in the same universe) then I would be all for it, but it doesn't matter if you bang the consort; it doesn't matter if you bed Garrus, Jack or anyone else, not in the long run and not for the sfate of the galaxy. Mass Effect is the wrong kind of game to get all these involvements in - which is why my canonical Shepard is indeed a heterosexual, but one who does not flirt with his team members.

Most people playing the game are not just satisfied with their Shepard being straight or gay or bisexual or whatever.  They also want to experience this through a romance.  You just choose not to which is fine.  Most people that play ME2 choose a romance.

It wouldn't matter if BW didn't include romances at all.  But they included six hetero options so it does matter.  Straight!Shepard can experience their sexuality on another level in game while Gay!Shepard cannot.

If gay Shepard has a anyone like Zevran In ME3 I will think BioWare hates gays 

Me too

[didymos1120]

danman2424 wrote...
If there were a thread with midgets complaining about not being represented in the game or not being able make "their" shepard the way they are, I would probably give them the same answer. Why would midget Shepard be funny? I can't answer that. It just would be. Although I'm sure they would be just as clueless as to why that is comical as you are.

OK, it just hit me: essentially, what this says is gay men and dwarfs deserve to be laughed at, 'cause, well, they're funny.  That's just a fact apparently. And that is what you do when something is comical, right?  You laugh at it.  Oh, and if you don't get that, you're "clueless". Wow.  

I'm curious though: does that go for all forms of dwarfism? Or are there certain particularly funny ones? Like, is primordial dwarfism the funniest? Or are achondroplastic dwarfs superior for comedic purposes?

And please, don't attempt the "Oh, I only meant if they're in video games, ME in particular" excuse.  

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 février 2010 - 03:01 .

[Vincent Oroscoe]

I see I'm a little late to this debate, but I was honestly annoyed by the lack of homosexual/bisexual teammates in ME2, or a gay relationship in ME1. It seems like a huge step back from having two bisexual partners in Dragon Age: Origins, which started production before ME1 did, if I'm not mistaken, to ME1 where you had the option of a lesbian one (I don't care if asari are monogendered, it's obvious they're supposed to be 'eye candy' as a character said) but no gay one, and then to ME2 where it's hetero-only.



I AM glad that you can actually have a relationship with the other aliens (I won't lie; I find Garrus very sexy and lovable, both physically and in terms of personality), but I think it's unfair that you can't, say, have female Shepard date Tali or Miranda or a male Shepard date Thane or Jacob or whatever. It's almost as if Bioware took two steps forward and one step back.



What makes less sense is that you can be gay/lesbian in Dragon Age but not ME1 or 2. Dragon Age: Origins takes place in medieval times. The Mass Effect games take place about 175 years in the future. If we're going to look at this logically with that in mind, there shouldn't be ANY sort of homosexual relationships in DA:O.



What I'd like to see done:

I think it'd be really cool to have all the characters you can have a relationship with be bisexual, though some would date the same sex more willingly than others, and the conversations and CG's would be at least somewhat different depending on Shepard's gender. That way there's not only the option to date any dateable character regardless of Shepard's gender, but there would also be some incentive to try it using both. It would also add quite a bit more replayability and allow you complete control over who you date. It would also make the dating side quests more varied in complexity, which I think seems more realistic.



Plus, this IS 218x (can't remember specific date, sadly) we're talking about. In the past 50 years the world has gone from having zero tolerance to homosexuals in most parts to gay marriage being allowed in quite a few countries, and even in some US states. At the rate we're going, I'd say that being a gay in the time frame ME takes place in wouldn't be all that disturbing or frowned upon.