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[Spatchmo]

I still think Edison Chen is hot, even if he is pretty gross with all the nude pictures of him with female celebrities and everything. They should use his appearance as the basis for a male love interest for male Shepard.

[SorenTrigg]

The only problem with including Hendel would be making him a male exclusive.

It seems unlikely that Bioware would do it, given how almost all of the past gay romances have been bi instead (except in KotOR? I do not recall).



This kind of made sense to me at first "Hey! More romances for all!" But then I realized that making someone exclusive is...something they do already with all of the heterosexual options. So, having a gay only option would not be too much of a leap for them to do, really, would it?

[Grizzly46]

To lighten up the discussion a little - something for you (only funny for those who knows Swedish):

[didymos1120]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Speaking of celebrities and a-typical characters. I just watched Taking Woodstock tonight and I could absolutely see Liev Schrieber playing a m/m love interest for Shep. He plays a really good gay ex-marine.

i still think Hendel mitra should be brought into the series, lol, he sounds cool from what I've read

I'm still trying to get my paws on a copy of the book but none of the used bookstores or libraries around here have it. I refuse to pay retail for mass market paperbacks because I know how much the mark up on them is. It's obscene. 
From what i've heard about him though he does sound awesome. Him + Samara + My Adept Shep = BIOTIC DOOM

Hendel's a pretty cool guy.  He doesn't afraid of anything. Really, he doesn't.  Ex-Alliance Marine, so he's got the mad combat skillz, armed or not. Early and successful graduate of BAaT, er, I mean "brain camp", and you know what that was like. And (sorry for the very minor spoiler but it's just too badass) capable of taking 3 hits from a stunner (think taser on steroids) before finally going out.  Now some might call it "glossing over", but one thing I liked was the fact that he's gay only comes up because it's relevant to a conversation early in the book and once more, when the character who mentioned it previously is reminded by a specific situation a short time after that.  It's basically irrelevant to everything else he does, and so it simply doesn't come up again.  Far better than the tendency I've sometimes seen for authors to basically harp on the fact as if to say "And did I mention: S/HE'S GAY! I HAVE A GAY CHARACTER!  I'M PROGRESSIVE!"    Plus, appropriately enough given the recent discussion here, nobody who doesn't already know or is told has the least clue he's immune to feminine charms.

[Schneidend]

MPSai wrote...

It's not um, odd you would look at people in a gay club and assume the people inside are gay. I hate using celebrities as an example but if you didn't know beforehand and saw say, Ian McKellen or Michelle Bonilla would your first impression be "yup, that's totally a gay person." Probably not. And yet they are. Openly. (yes Gandalf and Magneto were played by a gay man. I just BLEW YOUR MIND.)

Anyway trying to curve this back into ME... uh. BEARS. If Man!Shep put on like 30 pounds he'd totally be a bear. On renegade anyway. If you chose to give him a beard.

To be honest, I found this out only several years ago, and was floored by it. I assumed my gaydar was pretty well-tuned for a straight person, but then Gandalf and Magneto shattered my illusions of competence with magic and ferokinesis.

OT, it's refreshing to see a same sex romance thread that can go a few pages without somebody spewing anti-gay hate speech. Although, I probably just missed the unleashing of the fury somewhere in these many pages. Anyway, gay/lesbian romances should definitely be in the game. Bioware always puts in the effort to make them anyway, so it's not like resources are being "taken up" by producing LGBT content. I think Chakwas and Aria, especially, should be options for both genders in ME3.

[SirGladiator]

I agree it would indeed take very VERY little effort to put them in (it actually seems like they WERE in this time around, and then taken out, which of course would mean it took MORE effort to have them out than in). In ME1 the Ashley-FemShep romance is totally in the game, the only reason you can't play it without a mod is simply because they disabled it. As someone who has played it (via a mod) I can attest to the fact that it is totally fun and cool and should've been available to all, no reason for it not to be.



As for new options in ME3, so many good choices, the green Asari girl (the one you save from the Thorian in ME1) was hitting on my FemShep earlier tonight, sadly she left before anything could happen, she'd be a good option. It'd be cool to see Kelly back, as a full on romance option this time. Id also like to see EDI be given an android body (like on the TV show Andromeda) so you could romance her, that would be neat. Im sure there's plenty of other good choices also, they're not going to be hurting for good ideas . As for existing characters in ME3, all I really care about are Liara and Tali (and Ashley, since Ive played her romance via mod in ME1 and into ME2, its definitely cool and it would be nice if it were somehow in the game for ME3 also). So long as we get those, everything else is definitely secondary .

[Your Synthetic Superior]

Schneidend wrote...

The main issue would be production resources. But, considering the gay options have been produced but simply not enabled in both ME games, that's not really a factor, either, since Bioware made the content anyway and simply didn't make it part of the game except for the sound files and such.

Probably because they'd have to explain why everyone in space is bi-sexual.

[Your Synthetic Superior]

[quote]IngoLoema wrote...

[/quote]
Also, I find it interesting how instead of just saying "straight," which is the commonly accepted term, you used "normal."
[/quote]

EXACTLY.
[/quote]

People who enjoy eating raw onions are abnormal, but that that designation does not paint them negatively.

Homosexuality is not normal. Being abnormal doesn't inherently make it bad, but I think people are expecting alittle too much from others. Everyone has a right to their opinions. Who are you or anyone else to dictate how others should think?

No one is obbligated to be 100% accepting of and embrace homosexuality.

[EternalWolfe]

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...

People who enjoy eating raw onions are abnormal, but that that designation does not paint them negatively.

No, eating raw onions is pretty normal.  Abnormal is my fried peanut butter, jelly, and pepperoni sandwiches.  Or maybe that time I ate ketchup and ice cream together on a dare . . .

The first is pretty good, but I advise against the latter.

Personally, I just don't see the whole 'no' side of the arguement.  I myself have no intrest in them adding gay romances, and likely wouldn't bother playing one.  But, I can't think of a single reason why I'd care if they added it in or not.

[didymos1120]

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...
Homosexuality is not normal. Being abnormal doesn't inherently make it bad, but I think people are expecting alittle too much from others.

This is true enough if you're speaking in terms of statistics.  Left-handers, of which I am one, are not normal in that sense either.  Both are "deviant" but deviants of the standard variety, well within the range of normal and healthy variation.  But let's not be disingenuous: the fact that you and I are using the statistical sense of "normal" here is rather abnormal. You know perfectly well that when someone says "Gay isn't normal" they're very probably making a value judgement, and a negative one at that, not stating dispassionate statistical reality.

Everyone has a right to their opinions. Who are you or anyone else to dictate how others should think?

Well, who are you?  See there's a bit of a problem with regress here:  that may be in question form, but you're clearly also trying to dictate terms.  It's just another way of saying "Cease this particular behavior of which I don't approve."  But you know what: that's normal.  It's what we talking apes do: our damndest to influence, cajole, convince, etc.  So here's my rightful opinion: I'm perfectly free to dictate whatever I want, and you're perfectly free to not comply with my demands.

No one is obbligated to be 100% accepting of and embrace homosexuality.

Nor is anyone obligated to agree with that.  Don't get me wrong: I'm a realist, and think attempts to impose such a belief would be doomed (barring the invention of real mind-control), but you can't tell people not to believe in that, right? Or can you?  Tricky, huh?

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 février 2010 - 04:20 .

[tyddrwsau]

FataliTensei wrote...
I would go straight for Samara no lie

It's not straight if it's with an Asari!

[didymos1120]

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

The main issue would be production resources. But, considering the gay options have been produced but simply not enabled in both ME games, that's not really a factor, either, since Bioware made the content anyway and simply didn't make it part of the game except for the sound files and such.

Probably because they'd have to explain why everyone in space is bi-sexual.

No, they really wouldn't.  If you're Femshep, they're into girls.  If you're MShep, they're into boys.  Never shall the twain be required to meet, except maybe in some sort of Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment with RPG characters replacing the cat and "Gay/Straight" replacing "dead/alive".  Of course, you could have explicitly bisexual characters like Liara but nothing mandates that approach.

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 février 2010 - 03:54 .

[RE0305]

I don't mind gay romances, but if they are added into ME3, id like there to be clearly defined characters and not crew members who swing every way possible. If the most kickass alliance spec ops dude i need for my mission is gay, then so be it, just aslong as the guy knows what he wants and doesn't rethink his sexual orientation based on Shepards gender.



I see people asking for options to romance the squad members in everyway possible, and tell people who do not agree, that there is no harm done by giving everyone options and those who do not like it should shut up and not choose those options.



I disagree, i think it greatly diminishes the integrity of the characters if all of them would be available for both male and female Shepards to pursue romantic relations with.



There should be males who are straight, and among them those who already have partners and just are not interested in a female commander shepard, and the same with all the possible gender and sexual orientatations represented in the future team of Commander Shepard

[tyddrwsau]

TheGondola wrote...
Thing is, it isn't a problem with Shepard not being a fruit, he is the player character and he can be any sort of person. The problem is that they would need to create a new character that was bi or gay, because for straight people, it would ruin the image of that character

The thing is, sexual orientation doesn't change (or ruin) someone's character or image. Because sexual orientation is stigmatized, a lot of LGBT people are cautious about how and when they disclose their identity. When you know someone for a period of time, and only after you've known them for awhile do they let you know that they are gay or bi, that doesn't change who they are. It only changes what you know about them.

Looping back to "who would we like as a same-sex male romance option of existing characters":
Kaidan is top of the list for me. He's human, has a depth of character, and was already partially developed as bisexual. The aliens, Thane and Garrus, seem like they'd work pretty well too and we know Thane was also partially developed as such an option (but, of course, they're aliens).

When talking about who a NEW character might be, that's a lot harder because the field of potential options is virtually limitless. We end up brainstorming a huge range of concepts.

Hendel Mitra from the novels is an easy pick: canonically established gay character, handsome bearded fellow and no slouch in a fight. As a squadmate, his skill portfolio could be a mix of heavy biotics plus assault rifle skills. For narrative purposes, he's got a lot of potential too: background with Cerberus, the Migrant Fleet and the secret mission from the end of that novel. 

Going into the field of the unknown possibilities, trying to look at team niches not yet filled...
* A fighter pilot, ideally the commander of the newly installed fighter crew. This character could draw some design inspiration from Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach - a real life gay pilot (well trained, professional, handome, and incidentally gay).
* An intelligence and espionage expert. In imagining such a character, I imagine someone sort of like Marcus from Babylon 5 - fairly rugged with a good dash of pinache, an experienced rover of the galaxy
* Just about anyone modeled after George Takei who played Sulu from Star Trek (and is also gay and fond of science fiction). Heck, get this man as voice actor for any such character, his voice is seriously amazing.

[FataliTensei]

tyddrwsau wrote...

TheGondola wrote...
Thing is, it isn't a problem with Shepard not being a fruit, he is the player character and he can be any sort of person. The problem is that they would need to create a new character that was bi or gay, because for straight people, it would ruin the image of that character

The thing is, sexual orientation doesn't change (or ruin) someone's character or image. Because sexual orientation is stigmatized, a lot of LGBT people are cautious about how and when they disclose their identity. When you know someone for a period of time, and only after you've known them for awhile do they let you know that they are gay or bi, that doesn't change who they are. It only changes what you know about them.

Looping back to "who would we like as a same-sex male romance option of existing characters":
Kaidan is top of the list for me. He's human, has a depth of character, and was already partially developed as bisexual. The aliens, Thane and Garrus, seem like they'd work pretty well too and we know Thane was also partially developed as such an option (but, of course, they're aliens).

When talking about who a NEW character might be, that's a lot harder because the field of potential options is virtually limitless. We end up brainstorming a huge range of concepts.

Hendel Mitra from the novels is an easy pick: canonically established gay character, handsome bearded fellow and no slouch in a fight. As a squadmate, his skill portfolio could be a mix of heavy biotics plus assault rifle skills. For narrative purposes, he's got a lot of potential too: background with Cerberus, the Migrant Fleet and the secret mission from the end of that novel. 

Going into the field of the unknown possibilities, trying to look at team niches not yet filled...
* A fighter pilot, ideally the commander of the newly installed fighter crew. This character could draw some design inspiration from Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach - a real life gay pilot (well trained, professional, handome, and incidentally gay).
* An intelligence and espionage expert. In imagining such a character, I imagine someone sort of like Marcus from Babylon 5 - fairly rugged with a good dash of pinache, an experienced rover of the galaxy
* Just about anyone modeled after George Takei who played Sulu from Star Trek (and is also gay and fond of science fiction). Heck, get this man as voice actor for any such character, his voice is seriously amazing.

All interesting ideas for a possible new character

[danman2424]

didymos1120 wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Speaking of celebrities and a-typical characters. I just watched Taking Woodstock tonight and I could absolutely see Liev Schrieber playing a m/m love interest for Shep. He plays a really good gay ex-marine.

i still think Hendel mitra should be brought into the series, lol, he sounds cool from what I've read

I'm still trying to get my paws on a copy of the book but none of the used bookstores or libraries around here have it. I refuse to pay retail for mass market paperbacks because I know how much the mark up on them is. It's obscene. 
From what i've heard about him though he does sound awesome. Him + Samara + My Adept Shep = BIOTIC DOOM

Hendel's a pretty cool guy.  He doesn't afraid of anything. Really, he doesn't.  Ex-Alliance Marine, so he's got the mad combat skillz, armed or not. Early and successful graduate of BAaT, er, I mean "brain camp", and you know what that was like. And (sorry for the very minor spoiler but it's just too badass) capable of taking 3 hits from a stunner (think taser on steroids) before finally going out.  Now some might call it "glossing over", but one thing I liked was the fact that he's gay only comes up because it's relevant to a conversation early in the book and once more, when the character who mentioned it previously is reminded by a specific situation a short time after that.  It's basically irrelevant to everything else he does, and so it simply doesn't come up again.  Far better than the tendency I've sometimes seen for authors to basically harp on the fact as if to say "And did I mention: S/HE'S GAY! I HAVE A GAY CHARACTER!  I'M PROGRESSIVE!"    Plus, appropriately enough given the recent discussion here, nobody who doesn't already know or is told has the least clue he's immune to feminine charms.

Really? I thought the way that character was handled was the very definition of a cop-out. Seemingly the only reason it was even mentioned that he was gay was to have that "I IMPLIED HE WAS GAY IN ONE SINGLE SENTENCE. I'M BEING PROGRESSIVE!" Basically just an "Oh, and by the way" meaningless addition to his character that didn't have anything to do with anything. The easiest possible way a writer can write in a gay character and claim to be different and "progressive". If I didn't know any better, I'd say he went back after the book was finished and wrote that single sentence in after someone gave him the idea that it might help set it apart from other sci-fi novels on the shelf.

[MPSai]

danman2424 wrote...

Really? I thought the way that character was handled was the very definition of a cop-out. Seemingly the only reason it was even mentioned that he was gay was to have that "I IMPLIED HE WAS GAY IN ONE SINGLE SENTENCE. I'M BEING PROGRESSIVE!" Basically just an "Oh, and by the way" meaningless addition to his character that didn't have anything to do with anything. The easiest possible way a writer can write in a gay character and claim to be different and "progressive". If I didn't know any better, I'd say he went back after the book was finished and wrote that single sentence in after someone gave him the idea that it might help set it apart from other sci-fi novels on the shelf.

Just can't win with you huh? So what, did he have to be a Miami twink for you to be satisfied that he was a gay character? And you didn't answer my questions about gay celebrities who don't fit into your definition of gay people. I think you've mistaken a subculture for everyone of a that sexual orientation.

Modifié par MPSai, 28 février 2010 - 07:00 .

[sw33ts]

danman2424 wrote...
]Really? I thought the way that character was handled was the very definition of a cop-out. Seemingly the only reason it was even mentioned that he was gay was to have that "I IMPLIED HE WAS GAY IN ONE SINGLE SENTENCE. I'M BEING PROGRESSIVE!" Basically just an "Oh, and by the way" meaningless addition to his character that didn't have anything to do with anything. The easiest possible way a writer can write in a gay character and claim to be different and "progressive". If I didn't know any better, I'd say he went back after the book was finished and wrote that single sentence in after someone gave him the idea that it might help set it apart from other sci-fi novels on the shelf.

Regardless of being a copout or not.  You're going offtopic.  Yet again.

[danman2424]

didymos1120 wrote...

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

The main issue would be production resources. But, considering the gay options have been produced but simply not enabled in both ME games, that's not really a factor, either, since Bioware made the content anyway and simply didn't make it part of the game except for the sound files and such.

Probably because they'd have to explain why everyone in space is bi-sexual.

No, they really wouldn't.  If you're Femshep, they're into girls.  If you're MShep, they're into boys.  Never shall the twain be required to meet, except maybe in some sort of Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment with RPG characters replacing the cat and "Gay/Straight" replacing "dead/alive".  Of course, you could have explicitly bisexual characters like Liara but nothing mandates that approach.

If that were to ever become popularized, it would be the most horrible and shallow trend to ever happen to characterization in video games. The notion that story characters should be "catered to the player" with their desires, likes/dislikes controlled by a flip of the switch from the player just to suit their wishes is a complete bastardization.

[danman2424]

sw33ts wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
]Really? I thought the way that character was handled was the very definition of a cop-out. Seemingly the only reason it was even mentioned that he was gay was to have that "I IMPLIED HE WAS GAY IN ONE SINGLE SENTENCE. I'M BEING PROGRESSIVE!" Basically just an "Oh, and by the way" meaningless addition to his character that didn't have anything to do with anything. The easiest possible way a writer can write in a gay character and claim to be different and "progressive". If I didn't know any better, I'd say he went back after the book was finished and wrote that single sentence in after someone gave him the idea that it might help set it apart from other sci-fi novels on the shelf.

Regardless of being a copout or not.  You're going offtopic.  Yet again.

Then go yell at him. I didn't start the topic.

[Lightice_av]

You are still in the business of making offensive remarks while seeing no need to back them up with anything but belief that your opinion moonlights as an absolute fact for everybody else? Learn to make some sort of explanations of why your opinion should be considered valid.

[sw33ts]

danman2424 wrote...

sw33ts wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
]Really? I thought the way that character was handled was the very definition of a cop-out. Seemingly the only reason it was even mentioned that he was gay was to have that "I IMPLIED HE WAS GAY IN ONE SINGLE SENTENCE. I'M BEING PROGRESSIVE!" Basically just an "Oh, and by the way" meaningless addition to his character that didn't have anything to do with anything. The easiest possible way a writer can write in a gay character and claim to be different and "progressive". If I didn't know any better, I'd say he went back after the book was finished and wrote that single sentence in after someone gave him the idea that it might help set it apart from other sci-fi novels on the shelf.

Regardless of being a copout or not.  You're going offtopic.  Yet again.

Then go yell at him. I didn't start the topic.

It's not the topic that is the problem.  It's you.  People were speaking of new chracters that could possibly be implimented in the game as a gay squaddie and you decide to go offtopic and state how it was a copout for bioware to have it stated that he's into men.  That was not the point of this topic.  So please, say on topic or leave.

[danman2424]

sw33ts wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

sw33ts wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
]Really? I thought the way that character was handled was the very definition of a cop-out. Seemingly the only reason it was even mentioned that he was gay was to have that "I IMPLIED HE WAS GAY IN ONE SINGLE SENTENCE. I'M BEING PROGRESSIVE!" Basically just an "Oh, and by the way" meaningless addition to his character that didn't have anything to do with anything. The easiest possible way a writer can write in a gay character and claim to be different and "progressive". If I didn't know any better, I'd say he went back after the book was finished and wrote that single sentence in after someone gave him the idea that it might help set it apart from other sci-fi novels on the shelf.

Regardless of being a copout or not.  You're going offtopic.  Yet again.

Then go yell at him. I didn't start the topic.

It's not the topic that is the problem.  It's you.  People were speaking of new chracters that could possibly be implimented in the game as a gay squaddie and you decide to go offtopic and state how it was a copout for bioware to have it stated that he's into men.  That was not the point of this topic.  So please, say on topic or leave.

My post was completely on topic in relation to the post I was quoting. Quit looking for reasons to get upset.

[Ryzaki]

You lot really should just ignore Danman. Really. Anyways Hendel would be great for an exclusive romance option for M!Sheps. Though...that's a lot of biotics on the team in ME3 if nearly everyone from the previous games comes back.