7455 réponses à ce sujet

[MPSai]

I'd still like him to answer what I said, I get sick of people believing that there aren't many types of gay people just as there are many types of straight people, because people are just people in the end.

Anyway yes, a new gay LI would be the best. Still though why did the Fem!Shep get stuck with a bunch of aliens and Jacob in ME2? Kelly's not a real romance option and Male!Shep had two humans and Tali, who is pretty human looking. And I still don't get why people think interspecies romance is just fine but gay romance is just too controversial.

Modifié par MPSai, 28 février 2010 - 07:41 .

[PyroFreak301]

danman2424 wrote...

sw33ts wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

sw33ts wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
]Really? I thought the way that character was handled was the very definition of a cop-out. Seemingly the only reason it was even mentioned that he was gay was to have that "I IMPLIED HE WAS GAY IN ONE SINGLE SENTENCE. I'M BEING PROGRESSIVE!" Basically just an "Oh, and by the way" meaningless addition to his character that didn't have anything to do with anything. The easiest possible way a writer can write in a gay character and claim to be different and "progressive". If I didn't know any better, I'd say he went back after the book was finished and wrote that single sentence in after someone gave him the idea that it might help set it apart from other sci-fi novels on the shelf.

Regardless of being a copout or not.  You're going offtopic.  Yet again.

Then go yell at him. I didn't start the topic.

It's not the topic that is the problem.  It's you.  People were speaking of new chracters that could possibly be implimented in the game as a gay squaddie and you decide to go offtopic and state how it was a copout for bioware to have it stated that he's into men.  That was not the point of this topic.  So please, say on topic or leave.

My post was completely on topic in relation to the post I was quoting. Quit looking for reasons to get upset.

There's just no middle ground with you. Any character that is gay and will act upon it becomes a laughable figure you can't take seriously, and even if it's just mentioned in passing as a bit of character background, it's an attention grabbing copout that must have been put in afterwards because noone could ever imagine a traditionally masculine character that happened to be gay. There's no right way of mentioning it according to you.

More on topic: Hendel does sound like a perfect candidate for inclusion in ME3. It would be nice to see a gay only character, just to see FShep get shot down in her conquest to romance anything male.

[danman2424]

Ryzaki wrote...

You lot really should just ignore Danman. Really. Anyways Hendel would be great for an exclusive romance option for M!Sheps. Though...that's a lot of biotics on the team in ME3 if nearly everyone from the previous games comes back.

Says the pervert who is only here because she gets her rocks off from seeing "man on man action". Please, at least I offer an opposing viewpoint on a board meant for DISCUSSION.

[uzivatel]

MPSai wrote...

Tali, who is pretty human looking

Really? I though it was more turian than human...

[Ryzaki]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

There's just no middle ground with you. Any character that is gay and will act upon it becomes a laughable figure you can't take seriously, and even if it's just mentioned in passing as a bit of character background, it's an attention grabbing copout that must have been put in afterwards because noone could ever imagine a traditionally masculine character that happened to be gay. There's no right way of mentioning it according to you.

More on topic: Hendel does sound like a perfect candidate for inclusion in ME3. It would be nice to see a gay only character, just to see FShep get shot down in her conquest to romance anything male.

That's harsh Pyro.

But yeah seeing the amount of epic burn when awesome Hendel is male LI only would be luz!

[Ryzaki]

Shavon wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You lot really should just ignore Danman. Really. Anyways Hendel would be great for an exclusive romance option for M!Sheps. Though...that's a lot of biotics on the team in ME3 if nearly everyone from the previous games comes back.

Says the pervert who is only here because she gets her rocks off from seeing "man on man action". Please, at least I offer an opposing viewpoint on a board meant for DISCUSSION.

Totally, ignoring trolls starves them, and they go away.
Discussions require intelligent contributions . . .

Bad Shavon! You're not even supposed to acknowledge it! 

Anyways M!Shep x Kaidan is smexy right? <3
That scene with the two of them about to kiss is just beautiful and hot and I love Kaidan's rage face at Joker's interruption.

[danman2424]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

sw33ts wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

sw33ts wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
]Really? I thought the way that character was handled was the very definition of a cop-out. Seemingly the only reason it was even mentioned that he was gay was to have that "I IMPLIED HE WAS GAY IN ONE SINGLE SENTENCE. I'M BEING PROGRESSIVE!" Basically just an "Oh, and by the way" meaningless addition to his character that didn't have anything to do with anything. The easiest possible way a writer can write in a gay character and claim to be different and "progressive". If I didn't know any better, I'd say he went back after the book was finished and wrote that single sentence in after someone gave him the idea that it might help set it apart from other sci-fi novels on the shelf.

Regardless of being a copout or not.  You're going offtopic.  Yet again.

Then go yell at him. I didn't start the topic.

It's not the topic that is the problem.  It's you.  People were speaking of new chracters that could possibly be implimented in the game as a gay squaddie and you decide to go offtopic and state how it was a copout for bioware to have it stated that he's into men.  That was not the point of this topic.  So please, say on topic or leave.

My post was completely on topic in relation to the post I was quoting. Quit looking for reasons to get upset.

There's just no middle ground with you. Any character that is gay and will act upon it becomes a laughable figure you can't take seriously, and even if it's just mentioned in passing as a bit of character background, it's an attention grabbing copout that must have been put in afterwards because noone could ever imagine a traditionally masculine character that happened to be gay. There's no right way of mentioning it according to you.

More on topic: Hendel does sound like a perfect candidate for inclusion in ME3. It would be nice to see a gay only character, just to see FShep get shot down in her conquest to romance anything male.

No. If you're going to make a gay character, then make a gay character. Hendel being gay meant absolutely nothing. It didn't have to be mentioned at all. Any writer could've just done that.

And why do you propose that any positive representation of a gay character means that they have to come off as straight? Self-loathing? That makes no sense to me and it's hard to think of anything that should be more insulting than to be a gay man and be told that you have to look and act straight to positively represent yourself.

[Teryx]

MPSai wrote...
... And I still don't get why people think interspecies romance is just fine but gay romance is just too controversial.

That's fairly easy to explain, actually.  Due to cultural prejudices and stereotypes, male homosexuality is viewed as lacking in masculinity, or as calling into question the "manliness" of a man who has sex with men.  This is largely viewed as a bad thing.

Partaking in a homosexual romance, even in a video game, could call into question a heterosexual man's own sexuality; while many heterosexual men are confident in their sexuality and would have no issues with doing this, some men would feel it either implies that they themselves are homosexual or that it de-masculinizes them or their character to be involved in that homosexual romance, even if it's only in the game.

Whereas there aren't such strong cultural prejudices against xenophilia, and all of the alien romance options in the game available to heterosexual males are clearly designed to evoke human female qualities - so, the bewbs.  While they're definitely romancing a difference species, those species are clearly what we'd describe as female, and so their own masculinity is in no way called into question.

[Lightice_av]

My post was completely on topic in relation to the post I was quoting. Quit looking for reasons to get upset.

You are seeking to offend, not to contribute. There is a perfectly good reason to get upset.

Though...that's a lot of biotics on the team in ME3 if nearly everyone from the previous games comes back.

Wrex is unlikely to come back, no matter what. It depends on whether Ashley or Kaidan is the one to return to just how high the number of biotics will rise. I don't think that every squadmate from ME2 will return, so the balance doesn't have to be an issue. Both games so far have made half of the squad biotics.

And why do you propose that any positive representation of a
gay character means that they have to come off as straight?
Self-loathing? That makes no sense to me and it's hard to think of
anything that should be more insulting than to be a gay man and be told
that you have to look and act straight to positively represent yourself.

 
There is no specific way that gay people act. The personality of most is in no different from straight people. Those who like to camp it up are a minority. With most you can't tell their orientation just by looking.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 28 février 2010 - 07:58 .

[danman2424]

Shavon wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You lot really should just ignore Danman. Really. Anyways Hendel would be great for an exclusive romance option for M!Sheps. Though...that's a lot of biotics on the team in ME3 if nearly everyone from the previous games comes back.

Says the pervert who is only here because she gets her rocks off from seeing "man on man action". Please, at least I offer an opposing viewpoint on a board meant for DISCUSSION.

Totally, ignoring trolls starves them, and they go away.
Discussions require intelligent contributions . . .

Agreed. The perverts should leave.

[Teryx]

danman2424 wrote...
No. If you're going to make a gay character, then make a gay character. Hendel being gay meant absolutely nothing. It didn't have to be mentioned at all. Any writer could've just done that.

And why do you propose that any positive representation of a gay character means that they have to come off as straight? Self-loathing? That makes no sense to me and it's hard to think of anything that should be more insulting than to be a gay man and be told that you have to look and act straight to positively represent yourself.

Danman, you seem to be under the assumption that to a gay man, their orientation is the most important thing to them, and that it's also the most important thing about them to everyone around them.

And I think it's safe to say that a gay character that is so-called "straight-acting" isn't necessarily a positive representation.  What's positive about Hendel is that he doesn't conform to the negative stereotypes of gay characters and their presentation that are heavily presented in our media.  One example is that Hendel's homosexuality was treated in such a non-chalant, almost dismissive way, by both the author and Kahlee: "He's gay, so what?  Move on."

[MPSai]

danman2424 wrote...
And why do you propose that any positive representation of a gay character means that they have to come off as straight? Self-loathing? That makes no sense to me and it's hard to think of anything that should be more insulting than to be a gay man and be told that you have to look and act straight to positively represent yourself.

So you think you can't have a gay character without being camp? Again, Danman, I brought up an actor like Ian McKellen, who played both Gandalf and Magneto, who is openly gay. He doesn't fit your stereotype. Why? Because there are many different gay people, just as there are many different straight people.

What you think is "gay" is a subculture you're seeing. You're seeing only one type of gay person and assuming that's the whole. Just as some people are bikers, some people are goths, some people are guidos, not all gay people look, dress and act the same. SOME participate in subcultures that are throwbacks to older times, when gay people had to have pretty obvious visual cues in order to just meet.

I don't see why you think a gay person who isn't camp or metrosexual is "acting straight". How does one "act straight"? People are just people, they behave how they want to, they have different interests, beliefs and hobbies. Their sexual orientation is as big or as small a part of that identity as they choose.

Modifié par MPSai, 28 février 2010 - 08:03 .

[danman2424]

[quote]Lightice_av wrote...


My post was completely on topic in relation to the post I was quoting. Quit looking for reasons to get upset.[/quote]
You are seeking to offend, not to contribute. There is a perfectly good reason to get upset.
[/quote]

Explain to me how anything in that post was offensive.

Modifié par danman2424, 28 février 2010 - 08:03 .

[Ryzaki]

Shavon wrote...
Um, absolutely!  Personally, I'd rather see they allow Kaidan to eventually realize his feelings for MShep in ME3, instead of introducing a new character.  That way, if Liara really is going off the deep end, my only MShep can have his true love!  

Yes that would be love. If Kaidan after ME3 confessed that after he thought Shep had died he had time to think about his feelings ("Losing you was like losing a limb") and realized that he loved M!Shep. (I want this scene to take place in Samara's room so you can see the stars in the background to make it even more romantic. <3 ) 

And I want an option to go: "Its about time Lieutenant." and kiss him. <3

And if Joker interrupts I want a punch Joker in the face Renegade interrupt.

STOP FEEDING IT GUYS! I don't want this thread to go to lockdown.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 février 2010 - 08:06 .

[Teryx]

MPSai wrote...

So you think you can't have a gay character without being camp? Again, Danman, I brought up an actor like Ian McKellen, who played both Gandalf and Magneto, who is openly gay. He doesn't fit your stereotype. Why? Because there are many different gay people, just as there are many different straight people.

Reminds me of this quote from ME1:

"Yes, because you humans have a wide range of cultures and attitudes, but krogan all think and act exactly alike."
- Wrex

[Erode_The_Soul]

danman2424 wrote...
Agreed. The perverts should leave.

Namecalling is inappropriate and only seeks to create hostility within the thread. If you have a personal opinion about specific posters in this thread, keep it to yourself or PMs. Do not express it here, as it is off topic and antagonizing.

[Jimmy Fury]

danman2424 wrote...
Really? I thought the way that character was handled was the very definition of a cop-out. Seemingly the only reason it was even mentioned that he was gay was to have that "I IMPLIED HE WAS GAY IN ONE SINGLE SENTENCE. I'M BEING PROGRESSIVE!" Basically just an "Oh, and by the way" meaningless addition to his character that didn't have anything to do with anything. The easiest possible way a writer can write in a gay character and claim to be different and "progressive". If I didn't know any better, I'd say he went back after the book was finished and wrote that single sentence in after someone gave him the idea that it might help set it apart from other sci-fi novels on the shelf.

I'll be civil in my response to this and attempt to keep it on topic.
I have to disagree on this danman. I believe that a passing mention is a more realistic way of approaching sexuality, particularly in a mature character and/or someone who simply feels no need to broadcast their sexuality as if it's everyones business.
Contrary to what you may believe or even see (Being a south floridian
myself I am all too aware of how vocal the gay population of Miami is, so I can't argue that) there is a substanial portion of us that don't wear our sexuality on our sleeve.
For people like this sexuality usually does come up in passing, and often by someone other than the person in question. To be honest, this is how most people find out I'm gay. As I mentioned on a previous thread somewhere, my last roommate lived with me for three months before my friend, her boyfriend, told her I was gay.
It had simply never come up in conversation and I didn't think it was that important.

In terms of the game and Hendel in particular, this approach is preferable to a lot of us. Some of us don't want another Zevran. Personally I'd like a character who just happens to be gay or bi. Not one who is defined and designed around that one portion of his or her personality. I want the character to be approached the same as any other. Designed based on a history, skill set, and personality that fits into the story and the niche that character fills with sexuality being almost irrelivant.

[Lightice_av]

Explain to me how anything in that post was offensive.

You seek to argue that all gay men are campy queens, and that a gay person with no visible cues is "wrong", or "pretending". This is offensive. And that's just the one post. You've made personal attacks towards Ryzaki - something clearly forbidden by the board rules and common decency.

Learn to behave or get out.

[Arik7]

Here's some pics that danman2424 may appreciate:

[PyroFreak301]

danman2424 wrote...
No. If you're going to make a gay character, then make a gay character. Hendel being gay meant absolutely nothing. It didn't have to be mentioned at all. Any writer could've just done that.

What?! Being gay doesn't have any impact on a characters character outside of actual romantic encounters. They shouldn't have to adhere to stereotypes any more than they should have to avoid them. There is no storyline quota they have to fill to reinforce the fact that he is gay... if it's mentioned in passing, you should accept it and carry on. You can't demand they be more gay or complain that they act too straight. Sexual Orientation often is completely unrelated to a persons behavious.

And why do you propose that any positive representation of a gay character means that they have to come off as straight? Self-loathing? That makes no sense to me and it's hard to think of anything that should be more insulting than to be a gay man and be told that you have to look and act straight to positively represent yourself.

When have I so much as implied this? I'm just saying that you can't take issue with a character where him being gay has only been mentioned once with your reasoning being "They only mentioned it once, obviously not enough thought has been put into it, it must be attention grabbing". We've been trying get you to realise that a gay man can either adhere to stereotypes, or act completely as a traditional "straight guy" would act, either way is a-ok.

[Ryzaki]

Shavon wrote...

It's been a long time since Jade Empire. Don't worry, that kiss, and scene will be there for us to watch! yay!



If there were to be a new member though, hopefully from some npc we've already met, who would you want it to be? (question for anyone)

Yay!


Who would I want it to be. Sadly there's not that many good looking guys that I would have M!Shep in a relationship that we already know other than Kaidan and Joker.

...hm....

A new member though: I want someone high up in the alliance military (Or some relance good guy) that offers to help Shep out with the reapers. (As long as the reason isn't secretly stabbing him in the back). Maybe someone's whose family was taken away by the collectors? There would probably be a interesting conversation about the endgame decision in ME2 with that person.

Edit:  Replace Jacob with Kaidan, and that is the most beautiful scene sequence in the world!

Indeed...indeed.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 février 2010 - 08:14 .