7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

This thread needs a chill pill before the cause gets lost in petty squabbles.

I must be one of the few people alive who don't like the Beetles.

No?
Then what about this:

...Ow. My ears are twitching in a bad way. I'm not sure if that's his voice or the quality.

No Beatles and no Waits.
- This situtation is getting desperate.
One final attempt then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf1tEMlViLY

Okay this is actually bearable.

[Mrxknown]

(Please get back on topic people and please be civil about it.)



I do have one question, you stated

No, most of us would like the former bisexual squadmates to be reimplemented, this includes, Ashley, Tali, Thane, Jack and Kaidan

The only bi squadmate that I know of is Jack. Ashley is clearly straight as she is deeply religious (to what religion?) and her character is defined as that. But retconning characters to become different because of the player's choices of Shepard is wrong. Whether it be Ashley, Tali, Thane, Kaidan. The player can choose what kind of person Shepard is within the confines of a military-minded person, that is not evil (read destroy galaxy).



But if Shepard tries to pursue a relationship with Kaidan because the player wants Kaidan to be gay, the player should not have the power to do that. The player is confined to Shepard's actions.



Captain Anderson is Captain Anderson regardless what the player does. If Anderson slapped Shepard's butt (male and/or female) after a successful mission, then I would see room to look into that. But that is up to BioWare. They are the ones making the universe and characters. I can only choose how my Shepard acts and thinks, not whether another character is gay or not.



If BioWare chooses to add new gay (male and female (unless you count Jack), then that is fine.



But I do not want existing characters to flip-flop because a player hits a button.Their actions whether with a Male or Female Shepard should remain consistent with that character.



I am ALL FOR gay romances whether they be male or female because as someone that does writing on the side I find it interesting to explore the details that makeup a character.



I also agree, that it is a double standard for Male Shepard to be iconic (I'm fine with that) and be straight, but Female Shepard can be gay, BI, or straight. It seems that as much as they tout ShepLoo as "iconic" they give Female Shepard (and actress) more freedom and possible depth.



Also, they are careful saying that Shepard's story is just a minor part of the universe. They have made comics and books with only mild mentions of what is truly occurring on the greater galactic stage. It makes me worried that after the trilogy they just may turn "iconic", "default" Shepard into "canon" Shepard which would be a huge slap in the face and bad start to an otherwise interesting universe.

[MPSai]

Jack was a cop out, she spends half the game outright saying she's slept with women before and then she's like "Leave me alone, Shepard, I'm not into girls!". That TEASE!

[Ryzaki]

^Kaidan was going to be bisexual (the dialogue was mostly ready) but they ran out of time and had to take that and the F!Shep x Ashley (which was already fully voiced and had the sex scene already so I have no clue what the excuse is for that.) out.

And once again the only person who knows all the characters definite sexualities are the writers. So until one of them comes out and says X is straight, Y is gay, or Z is bi. There are no definites.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 février 2010 - 08:53 .

[danman2424]

Pteryx wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

I guess there's not really much I can say to change your mind on this. You're going to believe what you want to believe. I assure you though, if you think you're fooling anyone, you're wrong aside from the most daft of cases.

Danman, I must say, if only most of the women I hung around with had gaydar as good as yours, I would have had a much easier time in high school and university.

Congrats on your impeccable gaydar.

Regardless, I am 100% positive that you have encountered more gay men in your life than you've "pinged" on as gay.  I would encourage you to Google the "availability heuristic."  Your bias is showing, buddy.

I cannot think of a single example where I was surprised to learn someone was gay. Like I said, there are few people I've met that I felt could be gay, and in that sense I was fooled because I wasn't sure if they were gay or straight, but I have never met anyone that came off as undoubtedly straight and ended up being gay.

I don't see it as being "gay people are not equal to straight people because they do not act exactly like straight people all of the time" as some people seem to be taking it. Gay people just "feel" different. Not worse, not better. Just different.

I have a relative who I always knew was gay from a very young age. Everyone did. He has never come out, and doesn't dress like a "queen" or anything, but people can tell.

[The Uncanny]

MPSai wrote...

Jack was a cop out, she spends half the game outright saying she's slept with women before and then she's like "Leave me alone, Shepard, I'm not into girls!". That TEASE!

Ink. Attitude. Bi-leaning dialogue.

All as a come on to the Mansheps?

Yes, Jack is the intergalactic Megan Fox.

[MPSai]

danman2424 wrote...

Pteryx wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

I guess there's not really much I can say to change your mind on this. You're going to believe what you want to believe. I assure you though, if you think you're fooling anyone, you're wrong aside from the most daft of cases.

Danman, I must say, if only most of the women I hung around with had gaydar as good as yours, I would have had a much easier time in high school and university.

Congrats on your impeccable gaydar.

Regardless, I am 100% positive that you have encountered more gay men in your life than you've "pinged" on as gay.  I would encourage you to Google the "availability heuristic."  Your bias is showing, buddy.

I cannot think of a single example where I was surprised to learn someone was gay. Like I said, there are few people I've met that I felt could be gay, and in that sense I was fooled because I wasn't sure if they were gay or straight, but I have never met anyone that came off as undoubtedly straight and ended up being gay.

I don't see it as being "gay people are not equal to straight people because they do not act exactly like straight people all of the time" as some people seem to be taking it. Gay people just "feel" different. Not worse, not better. Just different.

I have a relative who I always knew was gay from a very young age. Everyone did. He has never come out, and doesn't dress like a "queen" or anything, but people can tell.

I still don't understand what you mean by "acting straight", that's nearly as bad as accusing a black person of "acting white". 

[Lightice_av]

Ashley is clearly straight as she is deeply religious (to what religion?) and her character is defined as that.

Religion does not prevent homosexuality, or necessarily forbid it. She did get full same-sex dialogue written for her, even though it didn't get to the finished product. I don't think it's likely that she'd become a same-sex option any more, but her religion aspect has nothing to do with it.

But I do not want existing characters to flip-flop because a player hits a button.Their actions whether with a Male or Female Shepard should remain consistent with that character.

The characters shift opinion on far more important matters in ME1. If you take for example Liara and Tali to Citadel finale, Tali will speak against sparing the Council. If you bring Wrex and Tali to the same event, Tali will speak for sparing the Council. The characters' personalities already change based on the player's choices.

It makes me worried that after the trilogy they just may turn "iconic", "default" Shepard into "canon" Shepard which would be a huge slap in the face and bad start to an otherwise interesting universe.

I hope that they'll know what's best and stick to prequels and midquels after the trilogy is complete.

[cutthecameras]

Mrxknown wrote...


Also, they are careful saying that Shepard's story is just a minor part of the universe. They have made comics and books with only mild mentions of what is truly occurring on the greater galactic stage. It makes me worried that after the trilogy they just may turn "iconic", "default" Shepard into "canon" Shepard which would be a huge slap in the face and bad start to an otherwise interesting universe.

I see where you're coming from. Simply put, it's too late now to go back and change things. Bioware isn't going to rerelease the game or add content to change what is already out there and selling just fine. But would it kill them? These are just charactes, not actual human beings, and BW listening to what we want would be a welcome change if anything. I want new love interests, I see no way of avoiding such a thing for part3 anyway.

As a game ME3 will most likely do the following: new ship, new characters, new LIs, new locations, and probably new races. If at least one of those LIs can be personally appealing to me, I would really appreciate it.

Also. It would be a huge slap in the face if the iconic male shep is made cannon, I'm not comfortable with the thought of that at all. My Shepard has deviated from the "cannon" shep quite a lot.

[danman2424]

MPSai wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

There is no specific way that gay people act. The personality of most is in no different from straight people. Those who like to camp it up are a minority. With most you can't tell their orientation just by looking.

I guess there's not really much I can say to change your mind on this. You're going to believe what you want to believe. I assure you though, if you think you're fooling anyone, you're wrong aside from the most daft of cases.

Irony. It's your belief that's wrong.

I suppose since I'm a lesbian who shaves, does her hair nice and wears makeup you'd say I'm "acting straight" huh? Even though it's just that I LIKE to do these things. People are always surprised to learn I'm gay, even though I'm a pretty big tomboy. Probably because they have a narrow idea of what a "lesbian" is.

As a gay person I think I'd know more about variety in the personalities and lifestyles of gay people than you, a straight boy who is determined to look down on them. So fail is you.

The fact that you are a tomboy would be my first red flag that you at least could be gay and are not coming off  as 100% straight.

No one on the Normandy has any red flag. They all act 100% straight. There is never any "might be gay". Which is what would make seeing them engage in such acts even more off-putting.

[LiquidGrape]

danman2424 wrote...
I cannot think of a single
example where I was surprised to learn someone was gay. Like I said,
there are few people I've met that I felt could be gay, and in that
sense I was fooled because I wasn't sure if they were gay or straight,
but I have never met anyone that came off as undoubtedly straight and
ended up being gay.

I don't see it as being "gay people are not
equal to straight people because they do not act exactly like straight
people all of the time" as some people seem to be taking it. Gay people
just "feel" different. Not worse, not better. Just different.

I
have a relative who I always knew was gay from a very young age.
Everyone did. He has never come out, and doesn't dress like a "queen"
or anything, but people can tell.

See, the problem is that you exclusively refer to your own impressions and expectations.
I do understand the point you're trying to make, but it remains a conjectural such since it's derived solely from what you perceive to be heterosexual behaviourisms.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 28 février 2010 - 08:59 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Mrxknown wrote...

(Please get back on topic people and please be civil about it.)

I do have one question, you stated

No, most of us would like the former bisexual squadmates to be reimplemented, this includes, Ashley, Tali, Thane, Jack and Kaidan

The only bi squadmate that I know of is Jack. Ashley is clearly straight as she is deeply religious (to what religion?) and her character is defined as that. But retconning characters to become different because of the player's choices of Shepard is wrong. Whether it be Ashley, Tali, Thane, Kaidan. The player can choose what kind of person Shepard is within the confines of a military-minded person, that is not evil (read destroy galaxy).

The statement you quoted was about the characters that were being developed as open romance options prior to release. Not those who have acknowledged bisexuality within the game itself.
I do agree though, I'd like existing characters to be left as they are because changes at this stage would be unfair to us as players since we wouldn't get the opportunity to play those romance storylines from the very begining.
New or previously unromancable characters would be equally as new for all players.

-And indeed, everyone needs to stay on topic with all posts. a half page of posts saying "don't respond!" is just as off topic and it still acknowledges the trolling. Warn through PM or notes in topical posts please. It'll keep the clutter down.-

[Ryzaki]

MPSai wrote...


I still don't understand what you mean by "acting straight", that's nearly as bad as accusing a black person of "acting white". 

Oh how I loathe that with every fiber of my being.

I've been told I was "acting white" for everything from my attitude, being an Atheist (like lol wut? ), the way I speak (apparently black people can't sound educated. <_<) The way I dress (They apparently can't wear anything than loose or skanky outfits either. <_< ) 

Ugh. Just thinking about that pisses me off. <_<

Anyways if we're talking about gaydar... Kaidan set mine off. As did M!Shep when complimenting Jacob's body.

Actually alot of Jacob's and M!Shep's convos made me go: ...wait I thought there wasn't a gay option for M!Shep's? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 février 2010 - 09:03 .

[danman2424]

[quote]Shavon wrote...

[quote]MPSai wrote...

Jack was a cop out, she spends half the game outright saying she's slept with women before and then she's like "Leave me alone, Shepard, I'm not into girls!". That TEASE![/quote]

Jack never said she slept with women. She slept with a guy when another woman was there, as many women these days do.

Not saying she didn't, but nothing in the sentence implied she was attracted to women.

[Lightice_av]

The fact that you are a tomboy would be my first red flag that you at least could be gay and are not coming off as 100% straight.

I've known also plenty of tomboys who are entirely, completely straight. Despite of your belief, plenty of gay people have no flags whatsoever. In all likelihood you have spoke to many without ever realizing anything. You have talked enough about your magic sixth sense; unfortunately no-one else in the world shares it, so give it a rest.

No one on the Normandy has any red flag. They all act 100% straight.

Oh yeah? Jacob came off as rather gay to me, and lets not even discuss the stereotypes that go into Jack.

[MPSai]

danman2424 wrote...

MPSai wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

There is no specific way that gay people act. The personality of most is in no different from straight people. Those who like to camp it up are a minority. With most you can't tell their orientation just by looking.

I guess there's not really much I can say to change your mind on this. You're going to believe what you want to believe. I assure you though, if you think you're fooling anyone, you're wrong aside from the most daft of cases.

Irony. It's your belief that's wrong.

I suppose since I'm a lesbian who shaves, does her hair nice and wears makeup you'd say I'm "acting straight" huh? Even though it's just that I LIKE to do these things. People are always surprised to learn I'm gay, even though I'm a pretty big tomboy. Probably because they have a narrow idea of what a "lesbian" is.

As a gay person I think I'd know more about variety in the personalities and lifestyles of gay people than you, a straight boy who is determined to look down on them. So fail is you.

The fact that you are a tomboy would be my first red flag that you at least could be gay and are not coming off  as 100% straight.

No one on the Normandy has any red flag. They all act 100% straight. There is never any "might be gay". Which is what would make seeing them engage in such acts even more off-putting.

So no straight girl anywhere is a tomboy? Woooow, are you ignorant. Is it safe to assume you suspect every female gamer is a lesbian? Afterall womanly straight women wouldn't play them amirite?

And what about Kelly? Does she seem like she "acts" 100% straight? I mean before she starts talking about how gender doesn't matter?

Modifié par MPSai, 28 février 2010 - 09:06 .

[danman2424]

MPSai wrote...


I still don't understand what you mean by "acting straight", that's nearly as bad as accusing a black person of "acting white". 

That's a horrible example. For one, that would be racism. Secondly, it would imply that being black is a mindset or a lifestyle. It is not. Being gay is.

[Ryzaki]

danman2424 wrote...

MPSai wrote...


I still don't understand what you mean by "acting straight", that's nearly as bad as accusing a black person of "acting white". 

That's a horrible example. For one, that would be racism. Secondly, it would imply that being black is a mindset or a lifestyle. It is not. Being gay is.

Oh gotta love the irony.

[sw33ts]

[quote]danman2424 wrote...

[quote]Shavon wrote...

[quote]MPSai wrote...

Jack was a cop out, she spends half the game outright saying she's slept with women before and then she's like "Leave me alone, Shepard, I'm not into girls!". That TEASE![/quote]

Jack never said she slept with women. She slept with a guy when another woman was there, as many women these days do.

Not saying she didn't, but nothing in the sentence implied she was attracted to women.

[/quote]

Lol.  First of all, she says no I don't have a girlfriend or boyfriend then later on she goes on to say.  There was this girl MANARA and her boyfriend...not the otherway around.  Why mention the girl's name if you're not into the girl why not say ManBoy and his girlfriend.  She then says THEIR bed.  Not his bed.  THEIR bed.  As in Manara and boyfriend's bed.

If someone asks you are with someone.  You do not say no I don't have a boyfriend or a girlfriend.  If you're straight you say one or the other depending on if you're a boy or girl.

[danman2424]

MPSai wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

MPSai wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

There is no specific way that gay people act. The personality of most is in no different from straight people. Those who like to camp it up are a minority. With most you can't tell their orientation just by looking.

I guess there's not really much I can say to change your mind on this. You're going to believe what you want to believe. I assure you though, if you think you're fooling anyone, you're wrong aside from the most daft of cases.

Irony. It's your belief that's wrong.

I suppose since I'm a lesbian who shaves, does her hair nice and wears makeup you'd say I'm "acting straight" huh? Even though it's just that I LIKE to do these things. People are always surprised to learn I'm gay, even though I'm a pretty big tomboy. Probably because they have a narrow idea of what a "lesbian" is.

As a gay person I think I'd know more about variety in the personalities and lifestyles of gay people than you, a straight boy who is determined to look down on them. So fail is you.

The fact that you are a tomboy would be my first red flag that you at least could be gay and are not coming off  as 100% straight.

No one on the Normandy has any red flag. They all act 100% straight. There is never any "might be gay". Which is what would make seeing them engage in such acts even more off-putting.

So no straight girl anywhere is a tomboy? Woooow, are you ignorant. Is it safe to assume you suspect every female gamer is a lesbian? Afterall womanly straight women wouldn't play them amirite?

And what about Kelly? Does she seem like she "acts" 100% straight? I mean before she starts talking about how gender doesn't matter?

My God this is giving me a headache. I NEVER said a straight girl couldn't be a tomboy. I said being a tomboy would be the red flag to lead me to believe that she COULD be gay.

Modifié par danman2424, 28 février 2010 - 09:08 .

[sw33ts]

danman2424 wrote...

Shavon wrote...

MPSai wrote...

Jack was a cop out, she spends half the game outright saying she's slept with women before and then she's like "Leave me alone, Shepard, I'm not into girls!". That TEASE!

Jack never said she slept with women. She slept with a guy when another woman was there, as many women these days do.

Not saying she didn't, but nothing in the sentence implied she was attracted to women.

Lol.  First of all, she says no I don't have a girlfriend or boyfriend then later on she goes on to say.  There was this girl MANARA and her boyfriend...not the otherway around.  Why mention the girl's name if you're not into the girl why not say ManBoy and his girlfriend.  She then says THEIR bed.  Not his bed.  THEIR bed.  As in Manara and boyfriend's bed.

If someone asks you are with someone.  You do not say no I don't have a boyfriend or a girlfriend.  If you're straight/gay you say one or the other depending on if you're a boy or girl.



It starts around 1:09 and goes on.

Modifié par sw33ts, 28 février 2010 - 09:08 .

[MPSai]

danman2424 wrote...

MPSai wrote...


I still don't understand what you mean by "acting straight", that's nearly as bad as accusing a black person of "acting white". 

That's a horrible example. For one, that would be racism. Secondly, it would imply that being black is a mindset or a lifestyle. It is not. Being gay is.

It's a pretty good example, I think. There are plenty of people who expect someone to behave or be a certain way just because they're black, because black people are "different" from them and all they know is stereotypes. You're doing the same thing.

Being gay isn't a "lifestyle". How? Is being straight a "lifestyle"? Does every single straight person live the same lifestyle and have the same mindset? From the mousiest bank accountant to the crack**** on the corner? Really?

[LiquidGrape]

Shavon wrote...

Lol, the thinnest arguments against same-sex romance in ME, is whether or not person x acts gay or not. Sometimes, a person falls in love with someone regardless of orientation!


It's impossible to category every single type of person. The paradoxical concept that every human is unique will escape some, but whatever. i guess what I am trying to say is that you can't judge people and assume they would only act a certain way, or romance a certain person. That's very naive to think you can do that.

I could see Ash be in an f/f relationship.

Very true.
Pansexuality, anyone?