7455 réponses à ce sujet

[IngoLoema]

@Gemini1179



You mean those "conservative elements" like Larry Craig ? *giggle*

[Gemini1179]

IngoLoema wrote...

@Gemini1179

You mean those "conservative elements" like Larry Craig ? *giggle*

I'm sure there are plenty to chose from. The problem is that rational people tend to simply ignore the ignorant, while the ignorant can't help but call out every rational idea...

[FataliTensei]

Just a reminder stay on topic about Mass Effect, we don;t want the thread getting locked

[IngoLoema]

Sorry, got carried away...back on topic...

[Lightice_av]

I'm sure there are plenty to chose from. The problem is that rational people tend to simply ignore the ignorant, while the ignorant can't help but call out every rational idea...

I really don't think that you can blame the conservatives for the missing option in Mass Effect. Both Bioware and EA have fairly consistently ignored attacks by misinformed groups, or actually tried to benefit from them. Dragon Age was an EA release, and we all know what options can be found from it. With Dante's Inferno EA actually started a huge campaign to get as many people as mad as possible so the game would sell better. Clearly political correctness or fear of controversy aren't properties either company cares much about.

[didymos1120]

tyddrwsau wrote...
In related news to the topic as a whole, here is an Interesting article from Lesbian Gamers posted in our group discussion thread.

I actually posted that link in here a few days ago, before danman attempted his thread coup and it got lost in the drama. I'd found a few other articles on the topic too:

Mass Effect 2 and the lack of homosexuality in space
Uranian Love vs. Status Quo
Mass Effect 2: Bad Romance
BioWare Founder Discusses Relationship Inclusion/Exclusion

Modifié par didymos1120, 02 mars 2010 - 07:07 .

[Siansonea]

I would really like same-sex relationships to be options for ME3, there doesn't seem to be any reason for them not to be. I have lots of Shepards, at least one of those boys should be gay, I have a few lesbian female Shepards, it's just weird that all the males are straight.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

It's really strange people want to watch gay romances at all...

[didymos1120]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

It's really strange people want to watch gay romances at all...

OK, let's just pretend the only people interested in gay ME romances are themselves gay. So it's still weird for them to want that option?  Now, inject some additional reality:  do you think all the guys who played FemShep and romanced Liara are strange too? Why?  And why are you not weird for wanting to watch an imaginary straight romance with your character?  I mean, you seem to be implying those are the only acceptable ones, so it stands to reason you pursued one given that they meet with your approval.

[Yeled]

didymos1120 wrote...

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

It's really strange people want to watch gay romances at all...

OK, let's just pretend the only people interested in gay ME romances are themselves gay. So it's still weird for them to want that option?  Now, inject some additional reality:  do you think all the guys who played FemShep and romanced Liara are strange too? Why?  And why are you not weird for wanting to watch an imaginary straight romance with your character?  I mean, you seem to be implying those are the only acceptable ones, so it stands to reason you pursued one given that they meet with your approval.

Some people seem to not understand that homophobia, and the negative reaction they experience when they see homosexual activity, is a learned cultural trait and not one inherent to the human condition.  The reason the Greeks and Romans were "bi," as someone put it, is that they didn't grow up with the preconceived, Judeo-Christian notion that homosexuality is somehow distastful and abnormal.  To them, having sexual relationships with members of the same sex was not only normal, but often desirable (the Spartan relationships between soldiers and the patron system in Athens and Rome as two examples).  It was mainstream in their culture, and as a result few if any people had negative reactions when exposed to it. 

[didymos1120]

Gemini1179 wrote...
Weren't basically all the ancient Greeks bi as well? I know there was a whole different attitude towards the "male seed" and it's "power", or perception there of.

You can't really apply modern attitudes to them too well.  It wasn't really about being bi or gay or any of that.  Almost all men married, period.  That was just what you did as part of social obligation.  It typically wasn't about love matches or your sexual preferences: you did it for political reasons or because of familial duty, and above all to have kids.  As far as homosexuality goes in ancient Greece, the vast majority of it occurred in relationships between older men and adolescent boys (pederasty).  It wasn't always a sexual relationship, but it was generally expected that there would be strong emotional attachments, in both directions, involved.  These relationships also served an educational function, and were supposed to end when the younger partner reached adulthood.  The Greeks actually looked down on adult men who took a passive role in homosexual relationships, so the more reciprocal form of gay relationship we expect to see nowadays was pretty rare back then.  As far as they were concerned, any man who did that was basically a "woman", which goes to show you how little regard women were given in Ancient Greece.  In fact, a tradition analogous to the pederastic one had existed for Greek women earlier on (like when Sappho was writing), but more and more restrictions were placed on women as time went on, to the point that eventually most were confined to the home and expected to simply have children and serve their husband.  Some people think that in Sparta, where women actually had much more freedom than in other Greek polises, "recreational" lesbianism was fairly common and even long-term relationships were somewhat accepted, but there's not a whole lot of evidence to go on. 

[Siansonea]

There was also a similar social construct called shudo in medieval Japan, where an older samurai would take on a young apprentice, and sometimes there would be a sexual component to the arrangement. Our current society resists homosexuality, but it hasn't always been this way.



Any trait or trend can be stigmatized, this is one that I feel is unjustly stigmatized. As for the assertion that there is something strange about wanting to watch gay romances play out, I would say it is far more strange to be disturbed by such things. Watching human behavior is interesting, even if the humans don't share your particular desires and traits. Watching something different from your own experience should be looked on as an opportunity to experience another person's point of view, rather than to over-identify with your own circumstances, and let them calcify as a rigid worldview that can be attacked just by being presented with something different.

[Lightice_av]

This is again getting a bit derailed from Mass Effect, folks...

[The Uncanny]

This is an interesting discussion, people. But can we make sure we tie it directly in with the game? A fair few threads seem to be getting the lockmonster treatment and I'd hate for this to be one.

[Ryzaki]

The Uncanny wrote...

This is an interesting discussion, people. But can we make sure we tie it directly in with the game? A fair few threads seem to be getting the lockmonster treatment and I'd hate for this to be one.

Okay. Fine. Kaidan x M!Shep for ME3....its too bad I suck at making banners.

Any artists that can design one for us? 

Yay I have a group now. http://social.bioware.com/group/1617/ Its for M!Shep x Kaidan soo....yeah. I know we have Fight for the Love but hey nothing wrong with a more specific group right? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 mars 2010 - 08:48 .

[SimonTheFrog]

Well, there's one thing i'd like to add: over the milennia the common ethical/moral stance usually evolved towards respect for the individual and for life itself. You can see that in stuff like universal suffrage and how former minorities now can have top positions in politics and industry. Also, animal rights and environmental rights are on the move, too.

This general evolution is thwarted by some forces that try to preserve the benefits that former stances gave them.

But in the end, its a movement that won't be stopped.



ME is set in the future, so humanity will either be cooked, suffocated or otherwise dead, or will have continued to pursue the movement to respect each others individuality and to respect life as such. Therefore it is very unlikely, that our current view on partnership and sexual behavior pattern, which are highly influenced by the standard moral/ethical standard, will be as it is nowadays. It will be most likely supporting individual choice and mutual respect. This supports at least bi-curiosity, as the individual will be esteemed higher than the social role male/female.



So, to depict a futuristic society it would be helpful to show more support for bi and gay romances.



Kelly is basically the rolemodel of a human of that age



But i can see, that BW wants to SELL the game now, not in the future. So that's where we're at, here

[MPSai]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

It's really strange people want to watch gay romances at all...

Hi. Us gay folk play games too.

[The Uncanny]

Ryzaki wrote...

Okay. Fine. Kaidan x M!Shep for ME3....its too bad I suck at making banners.

Any artists that can design one for us?

Yay! Some specific s/s banners would be great. Make it so!

[SimonTheFrog]

MPSai wrote...

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

It's really strange people want to watch gay romances at all...

Hi. Us gay folk play games too.

For everybody else at least the "car-crash-appeal" could work... 

Just kidding

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 02 mars 2010 - 09:09 .

[LiquidGrape]

MPSai wrote...

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

It's really strange people want to watch gay romances at all...

Hi. Us gay folk play games too.

What?! I thought you people were busy producing hilarious sitcom stereotypes and corrupting the minds of our children!

In all seriousness though, it bothers me how restricting the contemporary definitions of sexuality are.
I might be labelled "heterosexual" by public perception, but that doesn't mean I cannot find the thought of myself in a homosexual relationship to be rather fascinating.
- Hence, the roleplaying aspect of Mass Effect.
Embrace the fiction and step out of your own shoes for a few hours.
You know, I've said it before, and I'll say it again; pansexuality is where it's at.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 02 mars 2010 - 09:12 .

[Ryzaki]

The Uncanny wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Okay. Fine. Kaidan x M!Shep for ME3....its too bad I suck at making banners.

Any artists that can design one for us?

Yay! Some specific s/s banners would be great. Make it so!

I made one but its horriblez...its for M!Shep x Kaidan.



Image Link: http://img90.imagesh...ans54609532.jpg

I'll try again.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to make this one better?

Geez...I want to make them decent sized but then they're too big to be used with the Fight for the Love Banners

http://img121.images...ans5461101.jpg/

And that one is too small.

I will prevail people!

(Once I perfect the M!Shep x Kaidan, I'll go on to F!Shep x Ashley).

Here's another try...


Image Link: http://img121.images...fans5461101.jpg

And there's this: 

Image Link: http://img175.images...ans54611013.jpg

...what is with the lousy formatting on this board.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 mars 2010 - 10:23 .

[byne]

We need lesbian options for female. I love femshep, but I dislike all of her romance options in ME2, so I end up playing MaleShep or just having no romance as femshep. It sucks having to choose between a Shepard I actually like, and romance options I actually like

Modifié par byne, 02 mars 2010 - 09:46 .

[TLK Spires]

at character creation, introduce a new 'sexuality' option. straight, bi, gay are your options. character interactions change accordingly. for bi, make it so that when you begin a conversation with a potential LI, you can press one button for a non-romantic dialogue and another for a romantically inclined one.



everybody wins.

[Ryzaki]

Hm...I think I like this one.