7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Honestly though if someone has to say something we don't like to be able to airlock them all of the party should be able to be airlocked by Shepard.

(Though honestly wouldn't that be funny? I'd be able to airlock all the females who hit on my M!Shep. First person going into the airlock would be overly cheerful Kelly. My Shep doesn't like people who taste like diabeties. Good guy or no.)

Though honestly. Kelly...ugh. *shakes head* The least BioWare could have done was make a male version of her. As it is...just...ugh. That stripdance makes me facepalm.

I totally should be able to have any of my Shep's airlock and/or punch Kelly in the face though amirite? Just because I have to see her in the game. Nope totally incapable of ignoring her or responding civilily, violence is the only answer. (That goes double for Miranda and Jack) only female squadmember my Shep liked was Tali and that was in the bonds forged by the fires of friendship way. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 mars 2010 - 06:47 .

[Crazy_Cat_Lady]

I don't get why you are all debating this issue and trying to come with a new dialogue wheel/color. It's simple: Just handle dialogue (whether romantic or otherwise) like it was handled in DA:O. There. We're done. Now we can move on.

[Lightice_av]

I don't get why you are all debating this issue and trying to come with a new dialogue wheel/color. It's simple: Just handle dialogue (whether romantic or otherwise) like it was handled in DA:O. There. We're done. Now we can move on.

Because it's taking the dialogue system a generation backwards and destroying much of the cinematic feel that Mass Effect succeeded in achieving. DA:O follows old-school mechanic with a mute protagonist. Mass Effect is a new school RPG with genuinely two-sided dialogue unlike in any RPG before it.

[Servo to the bitter end]

(Haven't played DAO, myself...)

That said, there is more than one way it can be implemented - some better than others. Honestly, you don't even need to touch the current dialog wheel, as far as I'm concerned. If we're retconning, which I know isn't popular for some reason even if it's light, I think the picture pack idea is friggin' awesome. Otherwise, introducing a new character and integrating him/her into the campaign is a great idea too. We're just talking!

[Hellhawx]

I don't like the idea of same sex romance beyond Asari as they technically have no difference of gender (nor concept).

I don't agree with homosexuality. I don't want to see it the game. Many of the people you work with are Alliance or ex-Alliance. Although this is 175 years in the future. I will hold down the idea that conservatism hasn't changed too much and "Don't Ask Don't Tell" still exists.

Another reason I don't want it is because I don't want a character I consider a good friend (like Garrus) to start coming on to me. It would ruin the rapport I have with him and becomer a downer for me in the game. As well, I don't want to acidently run into a romance plot all in the process of knowing my squadmates better. On my first playthroug, I apparently got Jack interested in me which I regret because I'm with Tali. The only option I have is to cut it off with Tali but I want to cut it off with Jack. I don't want to be talking to a squadmate like Jacob trying to learn more about his past and realise that by accident I am coming on to him. Again, it would ruin a bit of the game for me as I would lose a rapport with a squadmate.

So for both my personal philosophy and game dialogue mechanics, I do not want and do not support same sex romance. 

Modifié par Hellhawx, 04 mars 2010 - 06:48 .

[Servo to the bitter end]

Hellhawx wrote...
I don't like the idea of same sex romance beyond Asari as they technically have no difference of gender (nor concept).

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

That said, this...

Another
reason I don't want it is because I don't want a character I consider a
good friend (like Garrus) to start coming on to me. It would ruin the
rapport I have with him and becomer a downer for me in the game.

...is negated by the toggle idea.

Meanwhile, this...

As
well, I don't want to acidently run into a romance plot all in the
process of knowing my squadmates better. On my first playthroug, I
apparently got Jack interested in me which I regret because I'm with
Tali. The only option I have is to cut it off with Tali but I want to
cut it off with Jack.

...is negated by the colored font idea.

And this...

Many
of the people you work with are Alliance or ex-Alliance. Although this
is 175 years in the future. I will hold down the idea that conservatism
hasn't changed too much and "Don't Ask Don't Tell" still exists.

...has absolutely no bearing on the issue at hand.  This is about Mass Effect, real life politics do not enter into it.

Modifié par TommyServo, 04 mars 2010 - 06:57 .

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Ryzaki wrote...

Honestly though if someone has to say something we don't like to be able to airlock them all of the party should be able to be airlocked by Shepard.

(Though honestly wouldn't that be funny? I'd be able to airlock all the females who hit on my M!Shep. First person going into the airlock would be overly cheerful Kelly. My Shep doesn't like people who taste like diabeties. Good guy or no.)

Though honestly. Kelly...ugh. *shakes head* The least BioWare could have done was make a male version of her. As it is...just...ugh. That stripdance makes me facepalm.

I wish they'd afforded you the option to choose the sex of your Kelly Chambers. They could still be an overly cheerful and, um, enthusiastic crewmate, but there was nothing about her character that absolutely needed to be female.

Even just a conversation with TIM early on, discussing your yeoman assistant. You could get a little intro to the PA and psychologist, Kelly Chambers, on board, and you could ask: 'What's she like?" "What's he like?" "I have to go." Maybe even randomize it, so half the time if you ask "What's she like?" You get "Well, he's actually blah blah blah..." and vice versa.

And gay/bi MShep would have gotten a little m/m action, as well (even if it wouldn't apply towards the Paramour achievement).

[sirrealist8]

for what its worth, I too support this thread. I think its really amazing that BioWare includes this aspect of REAL LIFE RELATIONSHIPS in their games.

[Ryzaki]

Lightice_av wrote...

I don't get why you are all debating this issue and trying to come with a new dialogue wheel/color. It's simple: Just handle dialogue (whether romantic or otherwise) like it was handled in DA:O. There. We're done. Now we can move on.

Because it's taking the dialogue system a generation backwards and destroying much of the cinematic feel that Mass Effect succeeded in achieving. DA:O follows old-school mechanic with a mute protagonist. Mass Effect is a new school RPG with genuinely two-sided dialogue unlike in any RPG before it.

I actually prefered DA's convo system...by a landslide. Then again I  throughly enjoying voicing my character's line in my head without needing someone to do it for me. DA's system if it used the MainPCs expressions better wouldn't even need to be voiced. As it is the PC stands there with a blank look on his or her face most of the time which is somewhat annoying (until I really get into it and my imagination supplies the animation) .

As it is I don't even overly like the VOs for Shepard so it kills some of the experience for me. Dialogue being voiced doesn't make it better than unvoiced dialogue. That's all up to the person.

Edit: And voiced dialogue comes with a whole lot of other constraints that restrict the experience and shorten gameplay. I'd take a longer game and a more rich and immersive experience than VOs. (and no everyone doesn't need all characters to be voiced to get immersed in a game.) Cinematic games are fine, but they certainly aren't the end all and be all and aren't even better than regular role playing games to me. 

That all is your milage may vary. For some its a step forward, for others its a step back.

Though once voice synthesizers where you PC can speak in your voice comes out and the game can be programmed to answer from a nearly limitless amount of surprises is when I'll gladly embrace speaking PCs. Seeing as that's not feasible right now...I'll wait.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 mars 2010 - 06:59 .

[Lightice_av]

I will hold down the idea that conservatism hasn't changed too much and "Don't Ask Don't Tell" still exists.

Pity that it only exists in the Unites States (the Alliance is not the US, remember), and it's already crumbling down fast. Both the army command and the president are working hard to get rid of it, since it keeps getting hundreds of good soldiers fired every year.
And yeah, the asari are all female; look into the Codex some time.

I actually prefered DA's convo system...by a landslide. Then
again I  throughly enjoying voicing my character's line in my head
without needing someone to do it for me. DA's system if it used the
MainPCs expressions better wouldn't even need to be voiced. As it is
the PC stands there with a blank look on his or her face most of the
time which is somewhat annoying (until I really get into it and my
imagination supplies the animation) .

I've had enough of the old-fashioned dialogue-map for a lifetime, now that a genuinely good option exists. After the first Mass Effect the talking heads of Fallout 3 were torture, and Dragon Age barely tolerable since it at least bothered with camera-angles and emoting characters. Pity that the protagonist wasn't one of them.
Mass Effect is the first computer RPG ever to compete with movies in emotional involvement, and that's all thanks to voiced protagonist, who may actually sometimes surprise the player with his/her reaction. As long as the surprises aren't too negative (the forced romances that many have suffered from), I see it as an interesting and good thing that I don't just read my side of the lines from a banal list.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 04 mars 2010 - 06:57 .

[Ryzaki]

Hellhawx wrote...

I don't like the idea of same sex romance beyond Asari as they technically have no difference of gender (nor concept).
 

That's...not true. Asari are an all female race and they most certainly have the concept of gender. (Considering Liara herself says they are considered female by other races its more of "I say I'm something but everyone else agrees I'm something else."

[highcastle]

Hellhawx wrote...

I don't like the idea of same sex romance beyond Asari as they technically have no difference of gender (nor concept).

I don't agree with homosexuality. I don't want to see it the game. Many of the people you work with are Alliance or ex-Alliance. Although this is 175 years in the future. I will hold down the idea that conservatism hasn't changed too much and "Don't Ask Don't Tell" still exists.

Another reason I don't want it is because I don't want a character I consider a good friend (like Garrus) to start coming on to me. It would ruin the rapport I have with him and becomer a downer for me in the game. As well, I don't want to acidently run into a romance plot all in the process of knowing my squadmates better. On my first playthroug, I apparently got Jack interested in me which I regret because I'm with Tali. The only option I have is to cut it off with Tali but I want to cut it off with Jack. I don't want to be talking to a squadmate like Jacob trying to learn more about his past and realise that by accident I am coming on to him. Again, it would ruin a bit of the game for me as I would lose a rapport with a squadmate.

So for both my personal philosophy and game dialogue mechanics, I do not want and do not support same sex romance. 

*sigh* Don't Ask Don't Tell is currently under investigation, and given our current president's views on the matter, it's doubtful the program will continue past his presidency, nevermind 175 years into the future. You also realize that views concerning homosexuality have changed continually over the years, right? Ancient Greeks and Romans used to encourage same-sex relations amongst their soldiers because they believed it strengthened the bonds between them and that a man would fight harder to protect someone he cared about.

As far as the romances go...I didn't want a relationship with any of the characters in the game, so I stayed away from those dialogue cues. I thought it was fairly obvious which cues would lead to romances and which wouldn't. However, it's already been suggested that the devs use different colors of dialogue for romances turn-ons, that way you could easily control who you're getting involved with. I'm fine with that, and I think that would solve any unintended come-ons.

However, you need to take your personal preferences out of this. The game isn't made just for you. And havign the option for a same-sex romance hurts no one. If you don't want it, don't pursue it. But there are many of us out there who support this, who feel like the lack of inclusion is a step backwards in many ways, especially compared to previous BioWare titles.

[FataliTensei]

sirrealist8 wrote...

for what its worth, I too support this thread. I think its really amazing that BioWare includes this aspect of REAL LIFE RELATIONSHIPS in their games.

Thank you for your support

you get one wizard smiley

[Crazy_Cat_Lady]

Hellhawx wrote...

I don't like the idea of same sex romance beyond Asari as they technically have no difference of gender (nor concept).

I don't agree with homosexuality. I don't want to see it the game. Many of the people you work with are Alliance or ex-Alliance. Although this is 175 years in the future. I will hold down the idea that conservatism hasn't changed too much and "Don't Ask Don't Tell" still exists.

Another reason I don't want it is because I don't want a character I consider a good friend (like Garrus) to start coming on to me. It would ruin the rapport I have with him and becomer a downer for me in the game. As well, I don't want to acidently run into a romance plot all in the process of knowing my squadmates better. On my first playthroug, I apparently got Jack interested in me which I regret because I'm with Tali. The only option I have is to cut it off with Tali but I want to cut it off with Jack. I don't want to be talking to a squadmate like Jacob trying to learn more about his past and realise that by accident I am coming on to him. Again, it would ruin a bit of the game for me as I would lose a rapport with a squadmate.

So for both my personal philosophy and game dialogue mechanics, I do not want and do not support same sex romance. 

I hate to break it to you, but  "Don't Ask Don't Tell" is going to be repealed pretty soon....like before the end of Obama's first term.

I prefer DA:O's system to Mass Effect's, because it shows you exactly what your MC is saying.  In ME, you get one to three words to give you a general idea of what Shepard says.  Although sometimes I'll select something in ME and I don't think Shepard says exactly what the dialogue wheel option seems to suggest.  I'm not gay, but if I was I'd be offended by the idea that any type of gay romance needed a special color like "HELLO!!! THIS IS THE OPTION IF YOU WANNA BE GAY!!" in neon flashing lights.  If anyone seriously "accidentally" chose a gay romance option with Zevran in DA:O then I'm sorry but you're illiterate as the dialogue showed that clearly you were choosing flirty options.

If you didn't wanna get gay with Zevran then you just don't follow those dialogue paths, it's simple.  I didn't, but I still talked to Zevran all the time in camp (he still had a ton of stories about his adventures and growing up in Antiva).  The same would go if they made Garrus or another male character gay....although I don't like the idea of making a current character gay or bi.  That'd just seem like pandering.  Maybe in ME3 they add a gay/bi character to your squad, but whether people want it or not I just don't see Bioware doing that.  If they were going to have gay characters in their ME universe, I think they would've had them in either 1 or 2.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Ryzaki wrote...

That's...not true. Asari are an all female race and they most certainly have the concept of gender. (Considering Liara herself says they are considered female by other races its more of "I say I'm something but everyone else agrees I'm something else."

Codex, as we all know, clearly states that the asari are biologically, socially, and (for all intents and purposes) psychologically female.

We really need to add the asari disclaimer to the FAQ.  My constant headdesking is starting to leave a mark.

EDIT:  And I know you know, Ryzaki.  I'm not addressing you, I'm addressing the multitudes.  I just try to avoid quote pyramids.

But yeah.  Asari are women.  Monogendered =/= nongendered.

Modifié par TommyServo, 04 mars 2010 - 07:03 .

[Ryzaki]

Lightice_av wrote...

I've had enough of the old-fashioned dialogue-map for a lifetime, now that a genuinely good option exists. After the first Mass Effect the talking heads of Fallout 3 were torture, and Dragon Age barely tolerable since it at least bothered with camera-angles and emoting characters. Pity that the protagonist wasn't one of them.
Mass Effect is the first computer RPG ever to compete with movies in emotional involvement, and that's all thanks to voiced protagonist, who may actually sometimes surprise the player with his/her reaction. As long as the surprises aren't too negative (the forced romances that many have suffered from), I see it as an interesting and good thing that I don't just read my side of the lines from a banal list.

I edited. XD and that's all your personal preference. Seeing as I dislike Hale's voice to strongly to even bother playing a F!Shep half the time I'd say it has far too many negatives for me. I'm missing half the game experience because I can't stand someone's voice. That's not a good thing in my books.

[Teryx]

Hellhawx wrote...
I don't agree with homosexuality.

I will never understand how someone "does not agree" with homosexuality.  It's like "not agreeing" with left handedness, or brunettes.  It exists, some people (and even some animals) are homosexual.  It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing.  It's not a practice, it's an orientation.

Hellhawx wrote...
Another reason I don't want it is because I don't want a character I consider a good friend (like Garrus) to start coming on to me. It would ruin the rapport I have with him and becomer a downer for me in the game. As well, I don't want to acidently run into a romance plot all in the process of knowing my squadmates better.

I can understand not wanting to accidentally begin a romance you're not interested in; I think a good number of players have done that.  What I don't understand is how a character coming on to you would ruin your rapport with them.  When Tali comes on to you in ME2, you can politely say that you think of her only as a friend.  Would having that option for (using your example) Garrus still ruin that rapport for you?  Why?  Would there be a way that it could be handled that wouldn't bother you, should it be implemented?

I don't see it as any different than having a friend of the opposite sex coming on to you once; if the friendship were genuine (and truly based on friendship), turning them down (respectfully, of course) shouldn't change the friendship at all.

Modifié par Pteryx, 04 mars 2010 - 07:07 .

[FataliTensei]

Ryzaki wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

I've had enough of the old-fashioned dialogue-map for a lifetime, now that a genuinely good option exists. After the first Mass Effect the talking heads of Fallout 3 were torture, and Dragon Age barely tolerable since it at least bothered with camera-angles and emoting characters. Pity that the protagonist wasn't one of them.
Mass Effect is the first computer RPG ever to compete with movies in emotional involvement, and that's all thanks to voiced protagonist, who may actually sometimes surprise the player with his/her reaction. As long as the surprises aren't too negative (the forced romances that many have suffered from), I see it as an interesting and good thing that I don't just read my side of the lines from a banal list.

I edited. XD and that's all your personal preference. Seeing as I dislike Hale's voice to strongly to even bother playing a F!Shep half the time I'd say it has far too many negatives for me. I'm missing half the game experience because I can't stand someone's voice. That's not a good thing in my books.

i love both of the VA's, silent protagonists annoy me it's like what did someone cut out your voicebox when you were a kid?

it's one of the RPG conventions that needs to go by the wayside in my books

[FataliTensei]

Anyway back on topic, the colored font might be too "flaggish" i guess, i think just more obvious options as to what you're getting into are the way to go

[Lightice_av]

I prefer DA:O's system to Mass Effect's, because it shows you exactly what your MC is saying. In ME, you get one to three words to give you a general idea of what Shepard says.

Naturally it's a matter of preference, but I actually like that I don't know from word to word what my PC is going to say. It's just as limiting either way, but in the traditional model you know just how limiting. I prefer picking from a series of emotional responses that tell what direction the conversation will turn, but not the exact words used. It creates a better illusion of freedom than obvious, stone-cut sentences.

Seeing as I dislike Hale's voice to strongly to even bother playing a F!Shep half the time I'd say it has far too many negatives for me. I'm missing half the game experience because I can't stand someone's voice. That's not a good thing in my books.

Well, since I'm not a fan of Meer's voice, we're in the same boat there, I'd say. Ofcourse it would be ideal if you could pick your voice-actor from a series of options, but currently that's not feasible. But to me a voiced protagonist adds to the immersion immensly. Mute cue-cards can never emote as strongly as actual actors.

But now I'm getting sidetracked; back to the topic.

Anyway back on topic, the colored font might be too "flaggish" i guess,
i think just more obvious options as to what you're getting into are
the way to go

 
I think that the best Bioware could do with the currently available dialogue options would be to make the romance-related responses Paragon or Renegade, i.e. blue or red text, as we see already, with Paragon being nice and Renegade being a bad boy/girl, with different responses from the potential LI depending on which option you use. It would flag the romance-related dialogue options clearly enough, and would add a new touch of depth to the process.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 04 mars 2010 - 07:13 .

[Crazy_Cat_Lady]

FataliTensei wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

I've had enough of the old-fashioned dialogue-map for a lifetime, now that a genuinely good option exists. After the first Mass Effect the talking heads of Fallout 3 were torture, and Dragon Age barely tolerable since it at least bothered with camera-angles and emoting characters. Pity that the protagonist wasn't one of them.
Mass Effect is the first computer RPG ever to compete with movies in emotional involvement, and that's all thanks to voiced protagonist, who may actually sometimes surprise the player with his/her reaction. As long as the surprises aren't too negative (the forced romances that many have suffered from), I see it as an interesting and good thing that I don't just read my side of the lines from a banal list.

I edited. XD and that's all your personal preference. Seeing as I dislike Hale's voice to strongly to even bother playing a F!Shep half the time I'd say it has far too many negatives for me. I'm missing half the game experience because I can't stand someone's voice. That's not a good thing in my books.

i love both of the VA's, silent protagonists annoy me it's like what did someone cut out your voicebox when you were a kid?

it's one of the RPG conventions that needs to go by the wayside in my books

I agree with this to a point, but I didn't like the VAs for either male or female Shep.  Just sounded too monotone and laid back about everything.  Somewhat took me out of the experience.

[techpriest1]

highcastle wrote...
Ancient Romans used to encourage same-sex relations amongst their soldiers because they believed it strengthened the bonds

:lol:Go learn history and dont post bull**** like this. I mean history not a hollywood movies

[Ryzaki]

FataliTensei wrote...

i love both of the VA's, silent protagonists annoy me it's like what did someone cut out your voicebox when you were a kid?

it's one of the RPG conventions that needs to go by the wayside in my books

Oh god no. Leave my RPGs alone damn you! You can have your own bloody voiced protagonists and limited dialogue options and hit or miss VOs. Leave my silent protagonists that I can actually pretend is me instead of some one else alone! Hell if I want a voiced protagonist I'll play a bloody JRPG! Or Mass Effect! XD

Edit: And about protagonists and emotions: That can be a good and bad thing. Most of the time (to me anyways) its a bad thing. So Yeah. I'll keep my mute protagonists thank you. You keep your voiced protagonists and I'll keep my silent ones. *huggles silent PCs* I love you all.

Edit: Ancient romans...are not people you want to look up to. At all.  <_< Kind of like saying "Americans do it! So should we!" Uh. No. If its a decent thing to do you shouldn't need to follow someone else's example.

Though I can't help but laugh at some of the rampant homophobia on this board. Part of me wants their kids to turn out gay for the lulz yet a more sensible part is hoping their sterile so they don't screw with my genepool. We have enough crazies and sheep as it is. We don't need more.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 mars 2010 - 07:19 .

[The Uncanny]

Ryzaki wrote...

Seeing as I dislike Hale's voice to strongly to even bother playing a F!Shep half the time I'd say it has far too many negatives for me. I'm missing half the game experience because I can't stand someone's voice. That's not a good thing in my books.

Well, we come at this from different angles. I find Meer such an awful VA that the very thought of playing as Maleshep makes my skin crawl. Which denies me access to the LIs I actually want to play!

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh god no. Leave my RPGs alone damn you! You can have your own bloody voiced protagonists and limited dialogue options and hit or miss VOs. Leave my silent protagonists that I can actually pretend is me instead of some one else alone! Hell if I want a voiced protagonist I'll play a bloody JRPG!

Then I guess you're going to prefer the Dragon Age franchise whilst those who prefer the streamlined cinematic style will prefer the Mass Effect franchise.

[FataliTensei]

Ryzaki wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

i love both of the VA's, silent protagonists annoy me it's like what did someone cut out your voicebox when you were a kid?

it's one of the RPG conventions that needs to go by the wayside in my books

Oh god no. Leave my RPGs alone damn you! You can have your own bloody voiced protagonists and limited dialogue options and hit or miss VOs. Leave my silent protagonists that I can actually pretend is me instead of some one else alone! Hell if I want a voiced protagonist I'll play a bloody JRPG! Or Mass Effect! XD

Edit: And about protagonists and emotions: That can be a good and bad thing. Most of the time (to me anyways) its a bad thing. So Yeah. I'll keep my mute protagonists thank you. You keep your voiced protagonists and I'll keep my silent ones. *huggles silent PCs* I love you all.

Edit: Ancient romans...are not people you want to look up to. At all.  <_< Kind of like saying "Americans do it! So should we!" Uh. No. If its a decent thing to do you shouldn't need to follow someone else's example.

Though I can't help but laugh at some of the rampant homophobia on this board. Part of me wants their kids to turn out gay for the lulz yet a more sensible part is hoping their sterile so they don't screw with my genepool. We have enough crazies and sheep as it is. We don't need more.

I'll admit some games the silent protagonist thinks works better, like the persona series, but that's the only game series where I can stand it

Also, don't be hating on Meer and Hale