7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Servo to the bitter end]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

"patched in" ugh that seems so MMORPG 

What's DLC if it isn't a content patch?

Personally, it doesn't bother me because each Shepard is their own character with their own story.  If Tali, or Kaidan are gay in one story, straight in the other, that's cool.  It pisses me off that people talk about "canon" Shep, because obviously there isn't one, but I don't think any of the others are canon either.  Lots of things can change in every playthrough.  I know some people don't like that, but meh.  It's just another way to look at it.

Strong characterization is very important to me for sure - but I think that sexuality is defined by the character, and not viceversa.  If a couple of characters were made bisexual, I don't think it diminishes the strength of their personalitys or characterization at all.

Modifié par TommyServo, 04 mars 2010 - 11:22 .

[Ninja Mage]

Zevran was husband material, alistair is a jerk if you don't agree with him..I had him banished from the castle

[Ninja Mage]

And I would LOVE a gay quarian..Omg that would be awesome. And he could have this sexy gypsy accent and stuff. Gay Quarian for mass effect 3

[Ryzaki]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Zevran was husband material, alistair is a jerk if you don't agree with him..I had him banished from the castle

You must be crazy. Alistair is the husband material. Zevran is good for a relationship but Ali is long term. (Plus Zev looks like he fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 mars 2010 - 11:19 .

[FataliTensei]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ninja Mage wrote...

Zevran was husband material, alistair is a jerk if you don't agree with him..I had him banished from the castle

You must be crazy. Alistair is the husband material. Zevran is good for a relationship but Ali is long term. (Plus Zev looks like he fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down).

I lol'd at that

but remember not to get too of topic and be careful not to posy any spoilers for DA, I dunn if we can get locked for that, but let's not find out

[Lightice_av]

Now, lets not get in a fight over personal preferences, OK?

[Ryzaki]

FataliTensei wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ninja Mage wrote...

Zevran was husband material, alistair is a jerk if you don't agree with him..I had him banished from the castle

You must be crazy. Alistair is the husband material. Zevran is good for a relationship but Ali is long term. (Plus Zev looks like he fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down).

I lol'd at that

but remember not to get too of topic and be careful not to posy any spoilers for DA, I dunn if we can get locked for that, but let's not find out

Too later for that.

But anywas since Light doesn't want us to fight...Peace?

Alistiar is still better.

But do you like my siggy? 

[DaeJi]

Goat_Shepard wrote...
Whaat where did you get that from my post? And this talk of "patching" is why I despise the idea of Bioware reimplementing Ashley, Kaiden, Tali, and Thane to be how they planned it. Nowhere does any single character say they only like guys or only like girls (except Jack Idk what her dialogue or sexual preferences are), it should be assumed via the romance dialogue. Bioware editing and reimplementing the characters after they have already been released gives me the impression that they are not canon NPCs, more like they don't know what the sexual preferences are of their NPCs.

Canon NPCs? In one of my playthroughs, I convinced Garrus that killing a criminal was the way to go and that as long as the job gets done, the details sort themselves out. In another, I taught him that there's a reason to get the job done right, not just done, and that the rules exist to protect people, not prevent him from doing his job.

Canon NPCs don't interact with Shepard.

"patched in" ugh that seems so MMORPG 

That's what they do when they add new content to any kind of game.

[Gemini1179]

The Uncanny wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

I could see a f/f option being handled well if it were to explore her coming to grips with being genuinely loved, no matter who is doing the loving.

You.

Read.

My.

Mind!

Wizard smiley for you!

Yay me!

If it were up to me, the break down for LI's would go like this:

For Shepard (m or f)
1 "easy lover" hetero option
1 more difficult (more emotional depth) hetero option
1 bi-option
1 gay-only option

4 options total with redundant "I just want to be friends" options so if you get 'accidentally' into a relationship you can back out with class.

Fair for all, no?

[Ryzaki]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Blotchy skin? Euro-trash accent? Zevran is a man among elves! How dare you Ryuuichi. My Warrior Elf and Zevran are in love, and we're going to fight together forever!

But all elves are short and funny looking. DA elves suck. Don't even have the etheral beauty going on. Nor the immortality, nor the superpowers, nor...any good thing about being an elf now that I think about it. 

Now Humans on the other hand. Go humans! Go!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 mars 2010 - 11:31 .

[The Uncanny]

DaeJi wrote...

If BioWare ever did a RPG where you are supposed to determine who your character is and then only had gay love interests in it, I would support some if not all of them being patched in as bisexual so that there would be opposite sex romances.

Agreed. I'd like to think that what we're ultimately aiming for is freedom of choice, inclusiveness for all.

If this situation came to pass I'd hope that the whole FFTL group would rise up and strongly suggest (politely, of course!) that bisexual LIs should also be included.

[Goat_Shepard]

TommyServo wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...

"patched in" ugh that seems so MMORPG 

What's DLC if it isn't a content patch?

Personally, it doesn't bother me because each Shepard is their own character with their own story.  If Tali, or Kaidan are gay in one story, straight in the other, that's cool.  It pisses me off that people talk about "canon" Shep, because obviously there isn't one, but I don't think any of the others are canon either.  Lots of things can change in every playthrough.  I know some people don't like that, but meh.  It's just another way to look at it.

Strong characterization is very important to me for sure - but I think that sexuality is defined by the character, and not viceversa.  If a couple of characters were made bisexual, I don't think it diminishes the strength of their personalitys or characterization at all.

DLC is a content patch but it's not canon, or even slightly essential to the storyline of the trilogy.  And making Tali and Thane bisexual would have to be made canon, as in ME3 (which I actually support), not cheap DLC. 

And I'm not talking about canon Shep, talking about canon Tali and canon Thane, who Shepard does not define. If every character could bend at your every whim, that would be extremely lame. 

I know you're all passionate about this, it reminds me of the passion of the Tali Love thread from the original website, which brings me to my conclusion:

Tali in ME1: Not supposed to be a LI in ME1, therefor canon. Thousands of fans riot for this to be changed. Bioware concedes and gives them Tali Love in ME2, therefor the canon is changed.

M/M and F/F romance in ME1: Not supposed to be in ME1, therefor canon. If thousands of fans had rioted, this may have forced Bioware to concede and therefor change the canon, but still no M/M or F/F in ME2 so the riot must not have been big enough.

So I conclude that if you support same sex romance, you need to rally just like the Tali fans did in order to change the canon. With the strength of 300 Spartans you can do this (unless Bioware is simply not allowed to make same-sex romance in the ME trilogy, which may be true but I hope it's not). 

[redboxrazor]

I'm happy to see that this thread has survived for 86 pages.



I completely support this idea. Even without the gay relationships, Mass Effect 2 has quickly become my favorite game. I would have been even more impressed if I had gotten the chance to romance someone like Garrus or Thane.



Because of my sexual orientation, I feel like I'm missing something when I play. It's not enough to deter my enjoyment, but enough to make me think about what kind of experience the game provides for a heterosexual player.



This is a difficult topic to tackle.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

DLC is a content patch but it's not canon, or even slightly essential to the storyline of the trilogy.  And making Tali and Thane bisexual would have to be made canon, as in ME3 (which I actually support), not cheap DLC. 

And I'm not talking about canon Shep, talking about canon Tali and canon Thane, who Shepard does not define. If every character could bend at your every whim, that would be extremely lame. 

I know you're all passionate about this, it reminds me of the passion of the Tali Love thread from the original website, which brings me to my conclusion:

Tali in ME1: Not supposed to be a LI in ME1, therefor canon. Thousands of fans riot for this to be changed. Bioware concedes and gives them Tali Love in ME2, therefor the canon is changed.

M/M and F/F romance in ME1: Not supposed to be in ME1, therefor canon. If thousands of fans had rioted, this may have forced Bioware to concede and therefor change the canon, but still no M/M or F/F in ME2 so the riot must not have been big enough.

So I conclude that if you support same sex romance, you need to rally just like the Tali fans did in order to change the canon. With the strength of 300 Spartans you can do this (unless Bioware is simply not allowed to make same-sex romance in the ME trilogy, which may be true but I hope it's not). 

I don't see why DLC can't be essential to the storyline in this case.  You've already paid for it, so you're gonna get it no matter what.

And like I said, I can see where you're coming from with the "canon npcs" - I just respectfully disagreed.  It's not a groundless complaint though, for sure.

I'd like a new option for both male and female Sheps, personally.  I don't see how anyone can argue with that.

[Lightice_av]

DLC is a content patch but it's not canon, or even slightly essential to the storyline of the trilogy. And making Tali and Thane bisexual would have to be made canon, as in ME3 (which I actually support), not cheap DLC.

Er, DLC content is all canon, as much as any content is. Zaeed is a canonical character in the ME universe, even though he's a part of DLC. Why is DLC cheap, and why couldn't it affect canon? Remember, there is evidence that the same-sex plans were made but scrapped for reasons unknown. If DLC came to exist, I would say that it would be a patch that fixes something that was broken, not a new, uncalled addition.

[Goat_Shepard]

DaeJi wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...
Whaat where did you get that from my post? And this talk of "patching" is why I despise the idea of Bioware reimplementing Ashley, Kaiden, Tali, and Thane to be how they planned it. Nowhere does any single character say they only like guys or only like girls (except Jack Idk what her dialogue or sexual preferences are), it should be assumed via the romance dialogue. Bioware editing and reimplementing the characters after they have already been released gives me the impression that they are not canon NPCs, more like they don't know what the sexual preferences are of their NPCs.

Canon NPCs? In one of my playthroughs, I convinced Garrus that killing a criminal was the way to go and that as long as the job gets done, the details sort themselves out. In another, I taught him that there's a reason to get the job done right, not just done, and that the rules exist to protect people, not prevent him from doing his job.

Canon NPCs don't interact with Shepard.

"patched in" ugh that seems so MMORPG 

That's what they do when they add new content to any kind of game.

That doesn't change Garrus' personality as in "who cares if civilians are lost as long as you take out the target". All he says regarding your disposition is "maybe you're right" not "wow you changed my outlook on life now I like men". 

And yes I know what a patch is, but as far as I know the Bring Down the Sky DLC and the Eviscerator shotgun and Zaeed are not essential to ME lore, hense why they are optional DLC.

[Goat_Shepard]

TommyServo wrote...
I don't see why DLC can't be essential to the storyline in this case.  You've already paid for it, so you're gonna get it no matter what.

And like I said, I can see where you're coming from with the "canon npcs" - I just respectfully disagreed.  It's not a groundless complaint though, for sure.

I'd like a new option for both male and female Sheps, personally.  I don't see how anyone can argue with that.

Because Bioware has to keep in mind that some people will never play or know of the DLC? I know it's canon in the sense that it's in the universe and it makes sense, but not canon as far as "you will see this in ME2 or 3 so if you didn't get the DLC then you don't know what's going on". Know what I mean?

[DaeJi]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

DLC is a content patch but it's not canon, or even slightly essential to the storyline of the trilogy.  And making Tali and Thane bisexual would have to be made canon, as in ME3 (which I actually support), not cheap DLC. 

And I'm not talking about canon Shep, talking about canon Tali and canon Thane, who Shepard does not define. If every character could bend at your every whim, that would be extremely lame. 

I know you're all passionate about this, it reminds me of the passion of the Tali Love thread from the original website, which brings me to my conclusion:

Tali in ME1: Not supposed to be a LI in ME1, therefor canon. Thousands of fans riot for this to be changed. Bioware concedes and gives them Tali Love in ME2, therefor the canon is changed.

M/M and F/F romance in ME1: Not supposed to be in ME1, therefor canon. If thousands of fans had rioted, this may have forced Bioware to concede and therefor change the canon, but still no M/M or F/F in ME2 so the riot must not have been big enough.

So I conclude that if you support same sex romance, you need to rally just like the Tali fans did in order to change the canon. With the strength of 300 Spartans you can do this (unless Bioware is simply not allowed to make same-sex romance in the ME trilogy, which may be true but I hope it's not). 

There is not canon with these characters. As in my Garrus example, these characters are different depending on your choices. If there was a "canon" version of each character, then each character would wind up the exact same with the same opinion of Shepard on every playthrough. They don't. There is not canon for these characters. They are more set than Shepard, but there is wingle room for them.

[DaeJi]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

That doesn't change Garrus' personality as in "who cares if civilians are lost as long as you take out the target". All he says regarding your disposition is "maybe you're right" not "wow you changed my outlook on life now I like men". 

In one playthrough, Garrus decides that CSec is worthless and will go out to be a cowboy. In the other, Garrus decides to go back and become someone people can trust. Differences. Makes each playthrough special.

[Lightice_av]

And yes I know what a patch is, but as far as I know the Bring Down the Sky DLC and the Eviscerator shotgun and Zaeed are not essential to ME lore, hense why they are optional DLC.

The romance subplots aren't essential to the ME lore, either. They're entirely optional, and consist maybe 2% of the whole gameplay experience. They're popular, but they're still just a minor sidequest from the gameplay and main plot standpoint.

[Goat_Shepard]

DaeJi wrote...

There is not canon with these characters. As in my Garrus example, these characters are different depending on your choices. If there was a "canon" version of each character, then each character would wind up the exact same with the same opinion of Shepard on every playthrough. They don't. There is not canon for these characters. They are more set than Shepard, but there is wingle room for them.

Idk about that. Are you saying Garrus' personality changes in ME2 based on how you treated him in ME1? *trying to hide naivette*

[Goat_Shepard]

Lightice_av wrote...

And yes I know what a patch is, but as far as I know the Bring Down the Sky DLC and the Eviscerator shotgun and Zaeed are not essential to ME lore, hense why they are optional DLC.

The romance subplots aren't essential to the ME lore, either. They're entirely optional, and consist maybe 2% of the whole gameplay experience. They're popular, but they're still just a minor sidequest from the gameplay and main plot standpoint.

2% yes but they continue on from game to game unlike Zaeed, correct?

DaeJi wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...

That doesn't change Garrus' personality as in "who cares if civilians are lost as long as you take out the target". All he says regarding your disposition is "maybe you're right" not "wow you changed my outlook on life now I like men". 

In one playthrough, Garrus decides that CSec is worthless and will go out to be a cowboy. In the other, Garrus decides to go back and become someone people can trust. Differences. Makes each playthrough special.

Really? Now this I did not know. In my ME2 game he says he tried out to be a spectre during those 2 years but "too much politics, noone was willing to take risks". So the alternate situation is what exact;y?

[Servo to the bitter end]

Edit.  I'm wrong.  Misread the quote.

Modifié par TommyServo, 04 mars 2010 - 11:56 .

[The Uncanny]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm the only one who wants Shepard to be able to kill all his/her crewmates without a suicide mission? Really? Aw.

Actually my renegade femshep would love that option. In ME1 she intentionally left Garrus behind on the Citadel, killed... (oops, no spoilers) um... certain people because she wanted an all girl crew. Not out of any man hating agenda but just 'cause she's kind of nuts and thought it would be funny.

She'd probably have the ME2 crew draw lots to see who she got to space. Except for Zaeed; the two of them would get along like a house on fire.

Ryzaki wrote...

But do you like my siggy?

It's great! Nice job!

You should post it in the Can’t find your favourite character? thread along with a link to your group.

[Ryzaki]

The Uncanny wrote...
Actually my renegade femshep would love that option. In ME1 she intentionally left Garrus behind on the Citadel, killed... (oops, no spoilers) um... certain people because she wanted an all girl crew. Not out of any man hating agenda but just 'cause she's kind of nuts and thought it would be funny.

She'd probably have the ME2 crew draw lots to see who she got to space. Except for Zaeed; the two of them would get along like a house on fire.

LOL

The Uncanny wrote...

It's great! Nice job!

You should post it in the Can’t find your favourite character? thread along with a link to your group.

Can't find your favourite character? (I can't post in spoilerz forum sadly don't have the game. Sharing games wit friends FTL in this case.) You're free to post it for me though!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 mars 2010 - 11:55 .