175 réponses à ce sujet

[DaveTheJackal]

The great thing about the old way with the mako and the planets, samey as they were, was that the smaller missions were always grouped together with others, which made them seem more fleshed out. Now, though we get more missions, they seem more like minigames than anything 'real'.

I'd also like to see more dialogue in missions, though I'm not sure if they have the space. Smaller missions in ME2 seem to be all shooter with some puzzle or other and no story, which wasn't the case with ME1.

[BiancoAngelo7]

@Darth Drago



I share your fears and concerns. That is why I am actually contemplating firing up ME1 again before Ive even finished a complete playthrough.



Also on a related note (kind of) what the hell happened to all those quests we got to do on the citadel? Some of them were a bit repetitive, but hell, at least it fleshed out the place! Now in all of the hubs...if you can call them that...more like "rooms" all you can do is walk around the place and look at the scenery.

[SwiftSweeper]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

SwiftSweeper wrote...
Nope, I would still disagree with you.  Even without quests and shooting etc, I would still take driving to resources over stupid boring mind-numbling dumb soul-crashing scanning anytime.  The planet's atmosthere alone made Mako exploration far more enjoyable for me than scanning.

I'd argue exploration is not within the parameters of Planet Scanning, and cannot be compared thusly. Just the act  driving (no atmosphere taken into account, just distances) and just the hacking are comparable to scanning for resources. Exploration isn't a part of planet scanning in the same capacity driving was in ME1.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I just happen to know Planet Scanning, for resource collecting, is a faster and overall more efficient use of my time than driving around in the Mako looking for deposits (especially unmarked) ever was, or could be.

That said, to ask for a feature such as Mako-deposit-hacking in ME2, you'd also have to take into account how NG+  works, and that you'd have to do the same drives over and over again. Since we're talking strictly the feature of resource collection, modifications to NG+ aren't inherently implied/requested.

Like I said earlier.  You are not missing out on much if you are not gathering minerals in ME1.  All you getting is small amount of experience.  Unless you enjoy mako exploration like me or have OCD, you can easly drop it.  Hence, atmosphere and exploration are the only real reasons to do it in ME1.  In my view, it is almost irrevlevant to argue about efficency for resource gathering when we talk about ME1.

On the other hand, scanning is intergral part of ME2 because it is heavily tied into upgrade system, so I am forced to do it even if I hate it.  Hence, it makes it relevant to tie efficency and resorce gathering when we discuss ME2.  Driving Mako/Hammerhead would work as alternative to scanning if each cache gives large enough amount of resorces.  I do not understand how one can deduct that this alternative approach would be less effecient than scanning without first knowing amount of resorces acquired per trip.

[SwiftSweeper]

DaveTheJackal wrote...

The great thing about the old way with the mako and the planets, samey as they were, was that the smaller missions were always grouped together with others, which made them seem more fleshed out. Now, though we get more missions, they seem more like minigames than anything 'real'.

I'd also like to see more dialogue in missions, though I'm not sure if they have the space. Smaller missions in ME2 seem to be all shooter with some puzzle or other and no story, which wasn't the case with ME1.

Yep, I miss NPCs on uncharted worlds.  It sure beats reading PDAs all the time.  I think that Bioware just testing waters with first Hammerhead pack.  If people like Hammerhead, I am sure Bioware will gives us more missions.

[Darth Drago]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

@Darth Drago

I share your fears and concerns. That is why I am actually contemplating firing up ME1 again before Ive even finished a complete playthrough.

Also on a related note (kind of) what the hell happened to all those quests we got to do on the citadel? Some of them were a bit repetitive, but hell, at least it fleshed out the place! Now in all of the hubs...if you can call them that...more like "rooms" all you can do is walk around the place and look at the scenery.

Have you beaten ME2 yet? It almost sounds like you haven’t yet. How far are you into it? Finish the game your on before going back to ME1 you dont want to get distracted afteral. I’ve been going back to ME1 just to get a new character to import into ME2.

Yea, the side quests are seriously lacking in ME2. In most cases you don’t even leave the planet you get them on.

I couldn’t agree with you more on the “hub” planets. Omega feels like it could have been on the lower street levels on Coruscant, sorry on Illium. The Citadel has been reduced to a mini-mall like location. With the awesome Presidium reduced to Anderson’s office. Even Tuchanka is nothing more than a little pit stop location, I expected a little more than that for the Krogan home world. Any locations you open for recruiting missions or loyalty missions on these worlds get closed after you leave them so you cant go back.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 27 février 2010 - 01:41 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

Yeah Iv finished ME2, I just havent finished all the N7 missions yet, thats all thats missing from my character. Got sidetracked by all the modding Ive been doing lately



http://social.bioware.com/group/1547/



But yeah Im glad to see that I wasnt the only one that felt that ME2 didnt have the same "soul" that ME1 did. It got rid of soooo much and reduced so many things in a way that took both fun and believability out of the game. Its really a shame, because I dont think it would have been hard to build on the structures (quests and literally structures) from ME1.



Also, if they had not eliminated all that from the game, they would have seriously put a lid on any "ME2 sucks ME1 is the best" threads in the forums.



...and there are a lot of em....

[BiancoAngelo7]

@scyphozoa



Yeah thats a really good point. it feels sometimes like they took the side missions criticisms to heart and made those splendid (loyalty quests) but as "payment" for it they took out all those things that truly immersed you in the Mass Effect universe. It seems like a poorly calculated development strategy.



Im more than willing to bet that they would have garnered a lot more critical acclaim and praise had they toned down, or even eliminated the loyalty quests and given us the true immersive exploration that ME1 had, but upgrading it with better detail, uniqueness and the graphics they have.



As much as I love this game, at every turn and corner I find myself saying something like "Thats awesome...but I feel like something is missing" and that "something" is the immersion that we got in ME1 from exploration and small things like the Mako, airlock and the elevators. Yes, I said it. The ELEVATORS. For all the sillyness they seemed to generate, actually GOING somewhere is a hell of a lot better than loading screens at EVERY single corner and things like "Mission Complete" screens. Ugh.

[Darth Drago]

I hated a lot of what was changed for ME2 (just look at my link in my signature). The catering to the short attention span crowd is everywhere in the game. You have missions that end the moment you do what you need to do to end it. Tali's loyalty mission is a big example. The constant reminders on screen to press “B” to end missions or “press RT to launch probe”, hell even if you get Kelly or any love interest invited up to your cabin you get the “press B to continue” constantly on the screen. The airlock you don’t use because all missions start and end on your perch in CIC because I guess your to lazy to walk to it now. We wont touch on the labeled breakable crates you see in combat levels.

There is a severe lack of game scope in ME2 or immersion factor. Illium should have had a lot more cab ride locations and ones that you can visit every time your there, not the quest lockout locations. It was just to much coincidence that you dock right near Liara’s office. Omega was a joke. Take away the Afterlife Club and you have an unorganized cluster of halls and doors. Again you dock right in front of where need to go and get locked out of quest locations once you do them. Samara’s loyalty quest for example has you go to an apartment that all alone up on the main floor instead of in a residential area then you get access to the Afterlife VIP lounge and you get locked out of it when the quest it done. You cant even do all the quests in there. The Citadel ticked me off. Completely cutting off the Presidium was a slap in the face to anyone who played the first game. I expected a larger environment at least here.

Having the Normandy with locked rooms that your yet to be recruited squad members have the keys to was just weak. You cant even explore your own ship fully with no access to those rooms and the lower vehicle/cargo bay. Its bad enough that when you first get on it the little tour of key things you should discover on your own is bluntly show to you. Something that repeats in a similar fashion throughout the game (think to Tali‘s recruiting mission and the final boss for two examples). “Must keep the player focused only on the short main quest storyline.” If you didn’t download Zaeed you would know that there are two missing companions in the game just by the locked rooms.

Its like the game developers are trying to push us away from enjoying the game they spent some time on getting it looking good or in some places get rid of us. “Move along, nothing to see here.” How true in scope to all the empty planets you cant actually do anything on.

There needed to be more balance on locations and quests. There were to many people having their loyalty missions or getting recruited on the same planet. For example did we need Archangel’s recruiting mission on Omega? Or Mordin’s loyalty one on Tuchanka? Couldn’t they have just as easily been on another new location? All the main quest locations and yes the loyalty and recruiting missions are listed under main quest had all the attention while all of the assignments (side quests) feel like afterthoughts. I cant think of one of them that stands out to something remotely close to one of the loyalty/recruiting guests. To have so many of them lasting less than 5 minutes as well is insulting.

With such a large chunk of a galaxy it makes you wonder why most of the cameo appearances show up on Illium? Is there a reason why a few of them couldn’t have been on the Citadel for example or even another planet?

So much potential to open up the galaxy and explore what we had been given a taste of in ME1 wasted.


*sorry for the long post, woke up in a bad mood today I guess lol.*

Modifié par Darth Drago, 27 février 2010 - 05:10 .

[Revenant_Mortalus]

LostHH wrote...

Hurrr

There is other stuff to do on them planets you know. I wasn't at all suggesting we should drive around for minerals, hell I didn't even bother with them that much in ME1.
Was more interested in the other collectibles, insignias etc. The hidden things, even easter eggs.
I like to explore in my games, if I didn't I'd stick with pure action games.

This is one thing I really miss about the Mako.  Anyone remember finding that Krayyt dragon skull in ME1?

Let's face it, the problem with the Mako wasn't the Mako itself.  Not even the controls or the handling (I just used the left stick for acceleration and turned my turret to steer - much easier).  No, the problem with the Mako was the terrain we were given to drive it on.  How many people had real problems with the Mako's handling on Therum or Noveria or any of the other main quest Mako sections?

As for the possibility of more planets for the Hammerhead in the future - that's almost a dead cert, although how many of them will be free Cerberus network DLC remains to be seen.  

I'm expecting Kasumi sometime around mid-late April and that'll prob'ly be it for free Cerberus network content for a few months.  I'm still expecting, at GDC, an announcement about the DLC to tie into the Mass Effect: Redemption comic (if you've not read it check it out, issues 1 & 2 sold out but they're getting reprinted)...

[BiancoAngelo7]

@Darth Drago



Yeah I pretty much agree with what you're saying. I dont know what happened exactly, but there is so much that was taken out of the Mass Effect experience that its just sad. This issue with the planets is really just the biggest one I can think of, especially with the announcement of the hammerhead. It is so sad that I have completed ME2, and with absolutely ZERO incentive to play new game plus on ANY of my characters, I am booting up ME1 only a MONTH after this game came out.



I replayed ME1 at least ten times before I got remotely TIRED of it, much less bored. This "sequel" is really getting me dissapointed because all the raw resources are there for a spectacular game, amazing graphics, voice acting, upgrades on things like the team the ship etc.



But then everything that made ME1 as great as it is isn't even re-imagined. They are just GONE. If you add to this the amazingly low amount of planets you can go to with the hammerhead....5? REALLY? It all starts to look really grim.



Of course, we dont know yet how extensive the 5 missions with the hammerhead will be, but if they boil down to the same structure as the current N7 missions:



Look its purty...10 minutes later....ok bai bai now don't come back ya hear?



Then you can get your creds that I will NOT be buying any kind of DLC. Ever.



Mass Effect NEEDS the scope of planet exploration from the first game. It NEEDS the freedom the first game had.

[BiancoAngelo7]

Also, Im sorry, but having a room that is locked on the Normandy and making us wait until whenever they decide to release Kasumi to open that room is just stupid with a capital S. The minute they made that decision the Normandy SR2 effectively became the "DLC SR2" Not even a hundred trash compactors or interactive shutters can compensate for the immersion breaker of a frigin room that won't open. (on whats supposedly OUR ship)



Would it have REALLY been that hard to make the room available and just add the character when we get him/her?? I KNOW thats possible, because if you go into flycam while on the normandy, unlocked rooms dont load the character in until you are near them. So...wtf? Makes no-sense-at-all.

[tropicalwave]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

Also, Im sorry, but having a room that is locked on the Normandy and making us wait until whenever they decide to release Kasumi to open that room is just stupid with a capital S. The minute they made that decision the Normandy SR2 effectively became the "DLC SR2" Not even a hundred trash compactors or interactive shutters can compensate for the immersion breaker of a frigin room that won't open. (on whats supposedly OUR ship)

Would it have REALLY been that hard to make the room available and just add the character when we get him/her?? I KNOW thats possible, because if you go into flycam while on the normandy, unlocked rooms dont load the character in until you are near them. So...wtf? Makes no-sense-at-all.

Also we know it is possible because of Jack and Tali...  both of their locations are available before they are there.  I too found this to be very, very irritating and a stupid thing.  The only room I can see ever being locked to us was the AI room but the rest?????  Come on!!

[fabricebouye]

There are too many empty & useless star systems in ME2 compared to ME1. There are no more hidden freighters and asteroids as well and for the few systems that have asteroid belts with things inside them, you can just have a look at the exploration ratio to find out there is still a planetoid somewhere you haven't scanned already.

Yeah going exploring unknown planets and discovering hidden stuff in ME1 was fun. What was not fun in ME1 was repetitive pirate/geth/cutl/Exogeni base layout and simplistic mission content coupled with terrain with ~90° slopes. This should have been fixed for ME2, not enterely removed. And they indend to provide only 5 missions with the Hammerhead ? That sounds really disapointing

Modifié par fabricebouye, 27 février 2010 - 11:31 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

Yeah the AI room was the ONLY one that made sense being locked for as long as it was.

[BiancoAngelo7]

Man am I the only one who is counting the hours until the end of today so (theoretically) we can get that new heavy weapon? haha Also, I hope for moar planetz haha

[lukandroll]

We need more planet exploration love in this thread

[BiancoAngelo7]

Oh my God those pictures are making me cry....WHY BIOWARE....WHY didnt you build on this from the first game??? ITS WHAT MADE MASS EFFECT A UNIVERSE...and not a corridor shooter...*single tear goes down cheek*

[Andaius20]

Indeed.

[BiancoAngelo7]

Seriously, I miss this element so much that whenever Im on the N7 missions I spend literally heaps of time staring at the sky and wishing we had more places to just go to and enjoy the element of exploration.



You dont even wanna know how much time I spend at the Normandy crash site...

[Darth Drago]

Awesome screen shots of just a few great scenic view from Mass Effect 1.

Its apparent to me the BioWare creators must have forgotten about such elements to put you in the game. The N7 missions locations completely pale in comparison.

[-Skorpious-]

I agree with the overall opinion of this thread. My biggest gripe with ME:2 was the utter lack of true "explorable" planets. Sure, each N7 mission was unique, but the majority of them followed the cookie-cutter formula of -

Land on planet. Enter mining facility. Fight mercs. Leave.

I could write a more detailed/criticizing post, but Darth Drago has basically stated my concerns better than even I could. (great post btw)

Edit - those images make me depressed; a reminder of how epic Mass Effect 2 could have potentially been. 

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 01 mars 2010 - 02:10 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

There is really no excuse for the devs to have left out such an amazing element of the game from ME1. Dont get me wrong, ME2 had its strong suits, but there is a complete lack of exploration, and from the looks of the hammerhead pack its not gonna get better....FIVE missions? REALLY?

I fell in love with Mass Effect for several reasons. One of the MAJOR reasons was planetary exploration and truly getting the sense that I WAS in space.

In Mass Effect 2, it is a loveable game because it rides on the laurels set by the first game, while improving on few elements and taking away entire other elements.

As it stands now, Mass Effect 2 is basically Halo with better graphics (i think), a very slight RPG feel to it, (lets not even start about that) and a more developed story and character elements.

When you completely eliminate such a unique experience as broad planet exploration from the game, something that no one else in the entire game industry has, it truly takes away the "soul" of the game.

I believe the Mass Effect formula to be

Amazing Space Exploration + Amazing gameplay hybrid (rpg/shooter) + Amazing story/character development = Mass Effect Game

When they take out the first element, Mass Effect turns into a shooter(rpg?) with a story. Period.

And no, no one has played the 5 missions on the hammerhead pack yet, but it is more than safe to deduce one thing.

The devs can throw the dogma of "Quality is better than Quantity" at us all day. But at the end of the day Id rather have 50 military rations of macaroni and cheese over 5 professionally cooked meals.
I might not have a life changing meal, but I wont starve either.

Just like with the food, I will be entertained for a lot longer time and be able to immerse myself in the universe more fully if I can explore more of it even if it is developed in a "good" way, instead of just a tiny bit of it that looks really really good.

The conclusion is as apparent as it is sad.

The game was not completed when they released it. The proof is everywhere. From the content that should have been included with the game or at least released in the first WEEK of the launch date such as Hammerhead pack, to the complete and utter lack of ANY kind of exploration. I do not know if this was a result born of financial necessity or creative marketing. We will probably never know. But the fact remains that someone somewhere made the decision to release an unfinished product and of course we are the ones who suffer for it.

Truly, ask yourself this: In a corporate world, is there anything that is truly "free"? The answer is more than obvious: no. All the free content released so far and any more that will be released is obviously what Bioware would have wanted to include in the game from the start. Truly, it is a sad realization that one makes.

I have dimmed hopes for the future of Mass Effect. If the trend established by this sequel continues, then I am almost certain that in the future we will have less, and not more, to expect from ME2 and ME3 than we did from ME1. Especially and principally in terms of space exploration and immersion into the game's universe.

This is not to say that ME2 or 3 is not or will not be a good game. It is and ME3 will most likely be an excellent game. However, without the space exploration from ME1, they will never achieve their true potential as zeniths and benchmarks of the industry.

In conclusion, I truly hope I am wrong, and that the trend set until now does not continue and eventually elivers us the "magic" of ME1 through the space exploration. I would be so happy to be so wrong.

Modifié par BiancoAngelo7, 01 mars 2010 - 02:31 .