175 réponses à ce sujet

[Sith_exar_kun]

Can i say LOL?

When ME was out: Aw that mako is useless and boring we hate it!!
Now: bring back the Mako! that scanning thing is useless and boring we hate it!!
ME3:Bring back the Mako and the scan! $random is useless and boring we hate it?

Modifié par Sith_exar_kun, 01 mars 2010 - 02:32 .

[Darth Drago]

Even though the Hammerhead will be free I can only hope that each of the 5 missions span several planets.

Is it just me or do most of the planets you do get on all have a similar bluish sky in ME2?

Modifié par Darth Drago, 01 mars 2010 - 02:35 .

[-Skorpious-]

Speak for yourself. I've always been a supporter of the Mako. What made people hate the Mako was the fact that they had to spend hours driving over impossibly tall cliffs to collect resources.



I suggest that Bioware keeps resource gathering to mini-games like planet scanning, and use the Mako for N7 sidequests in future games.

[Sith_exar_kun]

Personally, i liked both! I even enjoied falling off the cliffs with the mako (but i didnt do all the side quests).

And planet scanning reminds me about old games like star control 2 so I love it.



I say ok bring back the mako (Hammerhead) but keep the planet scanning, it's awesome.

[BiancoAngelo7]

Darth Drago wrote...

Even though the Hammerhead will be free I can only hope that each of the 5 missions span several planets.

Is it just me or do most of the planets you do get on all have a similar bluish sky in ME2?

This is a side effect of the other ridiculous choice not to give the squad members any actual real amor. All th planets we go to have to be more or less habitable because the most our squad can put on are those frigin scuba masks.

It is yet another element that worries me because (i dont know how it will work yet of course) in the first game, you had no trouble exploring crazy azz places no matter where you went cuz all your team had protective gear. Now, since they obviously don't, its going to boil down to one of two scenarios:

1) We always go to planets that, surprise surprise, are habitable.

2) We visit planets that are exotic and have hazardous atmospheres, but are not permitted to exit the hammerhead because it would mean our squadmates die.

3) We visit planets like in option two, and are alone in the hammerhead and can exit the vehicle but only on our own, because lets face it, if you dont have any protective gear, would a squaddie really hop into something that might get pummeled by explosives and cause oxygen leaks causing them to die inside? (would you? no.)

Its all an interconnected problem. The two major factors are that they eliminated space exploration from the game, and that your squad has no armor to survive in space. (Except for Tali and Legion) These two issues create an impassable hurdle to bring back the exploration magic of ME1.

This is why I anticipate, (and sincerely pray Im wrong) that the hammerhead will develop into a limited area on planets that we simply shoot stuff and speed along to the next "mission complete" screen.

P.S.- They should have never listend to all those whiners about the Mako, it was the most EPIC vehicle in a game PERIOD. They should have had planet scanning replace the minigame in ME1 that was "space frogger" and maintained the space exploration either with the Mako or with the hammerhead or in a perfect world: BOTH.

Instead they removed space exploration and gave us the upgraded minigame to replace everything.

[Darth Drago]

　

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

This is a side effect of the other ridiculous choice not to give the squad members any actual real amor. All th planets we go to have to be more or less habitable because the most our squad can put on are those frigin scuba masks.

-It did feel odd to see no generic spacesuit at least on quite a few locations. Having the humans wear a generic Cerberus (like the download one) armor and the other races with their own armor. Archangel is the only one I’ve seen wear his helmet (Tali and Legion doesn’t count) in certain levels. I’ll have to try Grunt and a few others on one of these locations to see if all of them have the facemask thing. It wouldn’t have hurt the game at all to have them.

Take Tali’s loyalty mission back to her home. Why do we see most squad mates wear just a breathing mask acting like their cloths and exposed skin wont have any effect to the native environment? Not to be rude or anything but a simple fart could possibly be life threatening in some way. I didn’t see the decontamination procedures as anything but to prevent the Normandy’s atmosphere from mixing with the Quarian’s An extended airlock decontamination procedure that we had when returning to the Normandy in ME1. Since they never showed or explained anything about it, it makes us wonder.

Legions loyalty mission is another perfect example of the game landing on its face. Trying to be as spoiler free on this one… Why would the space station occupants bother with air and/or heating? We plainly see they don’t use gravity. Yet we can have Jack wearing what little she does wear with just a mask and not be bothered at all? When did Mass Effect go from science fiction to fantasy?

But yea, the “lets have a mission on a typical safe atmosphere planet” thing got old real fast. The developers I guess didn’t want to risk missing an opportunity to show Miranda’s “genetically perfect physical assets” by having her hide in Cerberus armor or basic spacesuit.

I do miss the various planet types and atmospheric conditions from Mass Effect 1.

[BiancoAngelo7]

Yeah When I started Legions mission I had selected jack and Legion, after about two minutes I was like "screw this" and chose Tali instead. Its really sad that Tali and Legion are the only ones who would be fit to go off onto an amazing planet side exploration mission like we had in ME1.



I guess all we can do is pray that they are working on a MAJOR dlc that will give us the ability to visit several planets and explore with our squadmates. Hopefully this would mean that they would be given some sort of basic space armor.



It shouldnt be that hard, I mean just give all the humans Cerberus Armor and have maybe one or two unique armors because of Grunt and Samara or Mordin.



Its really not an outlandish idea, especially considering what we had in ME1 and what we were expecting for ME2 only to be slapped in the face with side boob in zero gravity and no oxygen/hazardous environments.

[kmcd5722]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

In ME1 so many epic moments came from exiting the mako (or not) on a cliff and overlooking the landscape of some barren planet with a blue giant and blizzard conditions in the background. (Or other moments like that)

What I am BEGGING ON MY KNEES for are planets that I can explore and immerse myself in just for the hell of it. I don't need involving scripts or complicated missions that Im sure must take a lot of time and resources to do like with this hammerhead pack. I ask this because it would be an easy way for you to give us an immense amount of play time and stuff to check out while spending minimal game development resources.

Heck, throw a few random geth protecting a server hub or some other random fight like in ME1 and I WILL BE IN HEAVEN.

For all the complaining about roaming around looking for asari discs or league of one icons or minerals or whatever, I think many might agree that exploring a world that gives you that feeling that no one (or almost) has been there before permeates the entire Mass Effect game with a unique and amazing feeling that I have never found in ANY other game.

I agree completely.  Much of the "immersion" and "exploration"  that felt so real, epic, awe-inspiring, and truly (if you stopped every now and then while you driving the MAKO over some barren planets) humbling and mystifying was lost from ME1 when the MAKO was out for ME2.   I loved the fleshed out planets from ME2, it was really cool to see that.  I for one posted constantly about that in the old ME1 forums.  However, I guess I never realized that the MAKO and all the copy/paste worlds would be entirely dropped.  And now I somewhat regret it.  It was this lack of immersion that I missed so much when playing ME1.

Slightly off-topic, but while on immersion, I didn't mind the elevators or having to walk back to the Normandy in ME1 as it made the game feel like you were truly always in it, there were no "discontinuities" in the storyline that loading screens unfortunately made the ME2 feel less personal.  On that same note, not talking directly to Hackett/the Council like ME1 really made me feel even less immersed for the things I did in the game.  Versus just receiving an email from TIM, it would been neat to hear his voice and discuss with the squad about the last mission to make the game feel so much more "real/alive," however you want to put it.

All in all, ME2 was absolutely fantastic to play, but I miss the planets and other small things that made ME1 feel so real.

[Darth Drago]

[quote]BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

I guess all we can do is pray that they are working on a MAJOR dlc that will give us the ability to visit several planets and explore with our squadmates. Hopefully this would mean that they would be given some sort of basic space armor.

It shouldnt be that hard, I mean just give all the humans Cerberus Armor and have maybe one or two unique armors because of Grunt and Samara or Mordin.
[quote]


It could be just as easy as adding a 3rd set of cloths for the entire squad. The only real difference is that this one would be used in certain missions that require them to be used. Archangel would get a repaired armor suit in this as well (to fix his 2nd choice) since he already uses a helmet.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 01 mars 2010 - 06:26 .

[lukandroll]

Darth Drago wrote...


　

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

This is a side effect of the other ridiculous choice not to give the squad members any actual real amor. All th planets we go to have to be more or less habitable because the most our squad can put on are those frigin scuba masks.

-It did feel odd to see no generic spacesuit at least on quite a few locations. Having the humans wear a generic Cerberus (like the download one) armor and the other races with their own armor. Archangel is the only one I’ve seen wear his helmet (Tali and Legion doesn’t count) in certain levels. I’ll have to try Grunt and a few others on one of these locations to see if all of them have the facemask thing. It wouldn’t have hurt the game at all to have them.

Take Tali’s loyalty mission back to her home. Why do we see most squad mates wear just a breathing mask acting like their cloths and exposed skin wont have any effect to the native environment? Not to be rude or anything but a simple fart could possibly be life threatening in some way. I didn’t see the decontamination procedures as anything but to prevent the Normandy’s atmosphere from mixing with the Quarian’s An extended airlock decontamination procedure that we had when returning to the Normandy in ME1. Since they never showed or explained anything about it, it makes us wonder.

Legions loyalty mission is another perfect example of the game landing on its face. Trying to be as spoiler free on this one… Why would the space station occupants bother with air and/or heating? We plainly see they don’t use gravity. Yet we can have Jack wearing what little she does wear with just a mask and not be bothered at all? When did Mass Effect go from science fiction to fantasy?

But yea, the “lets have a mission on a typical safe atmosphere planet” thing got old real fast. The developers I guess didn’t want to risk missing an opportunity to show Miranda’s “genetically perfect physical assets” by having her hide in Cerberus armor or basic spacesuit.

I do miss the various planet types and atmospheric conditions from Mass Effect 1.

I concur, ME2 is a game that after 2 or 3  plays (maybe less) you start to see and feel how disconected is from its own reality... or its prequel... its like its another game completely; and I'm not talking abour combat or RPG elements, I'm talking about atmosphere and ambientation, to presentation and immersion.

Its a damn shame that all those absurdities you mentioned made out to final game, I'm still in shock that this is a bioware game, its seems like it was made by another company....

Modifié par lukandroll, 01 mars 2010 - 06:25 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

Indeed, I had the same feeling. After playing through new game plus on my soldier class, I realized that there was abosultely NO incentive for ever playing new game plus with ANY character I made. This reduced ME2's playthroughs for me to about 3-4, and thats only because I will want to play one each as an adept or as a vanguard.

In ME1, largely because of the immersion factors discussed earlier, but also because of the persistant nature of your weapons and upgrades in New Game Plus, (unlike in ME2) I played through the game with my same Spacer/War Hero/Soldier at LEAST 5 or 6 times before moving on to try adept class.

This is a result that has truly saddened me. I had such amazingly high hopes, realistic- but high, about what the sequel was going to do.

Instead, it was quite a let down.

In Mass Effect 1, through the space exploration and continuity of the game elements, elevators and decontamination included, I was playing an EXPERIENCE.

In Mass Effect 2, through the complete lack of freedom and the discontinuity of the game, thanks to mission complete screens and teleporting all over the place instead of going there, I was playing a GAME.

Like I said earlier, this isnt to say that ME2 is a bad game. Its an excellent game. But to truly achieve its earth-shattering potential like ME1 did, it would have had to have done a lot more, and gotten rid of a lot less.

Modifié par BiancoAngelo7, 01 mars 2010 - 06:38 .

[BaZ1NGA]

I would like both planet scanning and exploring with a mako in me3. Both are fun to me.

[BiancoAngelo7]

Heck Ill take exploring with a bicycle if it means they bring back the heavy exploration element of the game.

[SolitonMan]

Sith_exar_kun wrote...

Can i say LOL?

When ME was out: Aw that mako is useless and boring we hate it!!
Now: bring back the Mako! that scanning thing is useless and boring we hate it!!
ME3:Bring back the Mako and the scan! $random is useless and boring we hate it?

Seems that way, doesn't it?  However, I think that what we're seeing is not fickleness but the fact that with ME1, people who hated the Mako complained about it a lot, whereas people who were fine with it said nothing.  So it did seem as though everyone hated it.  But now that those of us who didn't hate it (or *GASP* even enjoyed it) see the cost of not speaking up, we're making sure we're heard.  Clearly Bioware devs read the forums and use ideas presented therein.  I distinctly remember myself that I posted to an ME1 thread and suggested that the game should somehow incorporate using resources to upgrade the Normandy.  I'm sure many others did too, and we have the nifty mechanic of upgrades and resources in ME2, which I think is great.

But the mechanism of scanning is so poorly implemented it takes away from the overall enjoyment of the game, at least for me.  Hell, even making the scan mode a toggle instead of having to hold a @%#!$# trigger would have been a major improvement (still don't understand how that passed testing...). 

But to come back around to the point of the thread, exploration and many worlds does indeed give a keenly immersive feel to the game, and made ME1 so replayable for me.  The way to fix this situation is to make the planetary immersiveness and resource acquisition intertwined.  Instead of mindlessly scanning from space and launching probes, we should have the ability to orbit a planet, conduct a global scan that gives an estimate of its resources (Rich, Good, etc.) and then have an option to "Begin Mining Operations".  This would lead to a mining team landing on the planet and starting to recover resources.  This wouldn't be an instantaneous thing - in fact, waiting for it to be done would be foolishly time consuming.  Instead, EDI will track the progress, and when a planet is done being mined you'll get a message to go to the planet to recover your resources.

In addition to the realism this would add, you can then have your mining facilities in danger of attack from time to time so that you can have the fun of planet exploration.  Like, you'll get a message that batarians are attacking the iridium mine on (some planet), and if you don't head there to help them, they'll eventually be wiped out and you'll lose your resources (and mining team).  You can use credits and resources to purchase new mining equipment (which can be another upgradable option) which would take the place of buying oodles of probes.  There's a lot of potential for really adding fun and immersiveness into the game with this aspect, and Bioware needs to consider how to take advantage of it for the benefit of all fans.  After all, isn't the ultimate purpose of a game to be fun?

Modifié par SolitonMan, 01 mars 2010 - 09:59 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

@Soliton Man





You sir, should work for Bioware. That idea would have made ME2 the epic experience that immersed me into the games universe that I was expecting. I truly hope they implement at least some if not all of what you said.



I also completely agree that when ME1 was released not enough of us were defending the mako and its positive sides. There were many after all, sure it had some flaws and on 360 controlling it was a little wierd, but it was an AMAZING part of the game.



If they implement anything like you said for ME3 I will literally wet my pants in anticipation and have an anyeurism (sp?) of pure joy!

[lukandroll]

SolitonMan wrote...

Sith_exar_kun wrote...

Can i say LOL?

When ME was out: Aw that mako is useless and boring we hate it!!
Now: bring back the Mako! that scanning thing is useless and boring we hate it!!
ME3:Bring back the Mako and the scan! $random is useless and boring we hate it?

Seems that way, doesn't it?  However, I think that what we're seeing is not fickleness but the fact that with ME1, people who hated the Mako complained about it a lot, whereas people who were fine with it said nothing.  So it did seem as though everyone hated it.  But now that those of us who didn't hate it (or *GASP* even enjoyed it) see the cost of not speaking up, we're making sure we're heard.  Clearly Bioware devs read the forums and use ideas presented therein.  I distinctly remember myself that I posted to an ME1 thread and suggested that the game should somehow incorporate using resources to upgrade the Normandy.  I'm sure many others did too, and we have the nifty mechanic of upgrades and resources in ME2, which I think is great.

But the mechanism of scanning is so poorly implemented it takes away from the overall enjoyment of the game, at least for me.  Hell, even making the scan mode a toggle instead of having to hold a @%#!$# trigger would have been a major improvement (still don't understand how that passed testing...). 

But to come back around to the point of the thread, exploration and many worlds does indeed give a keenly immersive feel to the game, and made ME1 so replayable for me.  The way to fix this situation is to make the planetary immersiveness and resource acquisition intertwined.  Instead of mindlessly scanning from space and launching probes, we should have the ability to orbit a planet, conduct a global scan that gives an estimate of its resources (Rich, Good, etc.) and then have an option to "Begin Mining Operations".  This would lead to a mining team landing on the planet and starting to recover resources.  This wouldn't be an instantaneous thing - in fact, waiting for it to be done would be foolishly time consuming.  Instead, EDI will track the progress, and when a planet is done being mined you'll get a message to go to the planet to recover your resources.

In addition to the realism this would add, you can then have your mining facilities in danger of attack from time to time so that you can have the fun of planet exploration.  Like, you'll get a message that batarians are attacking the iridium mine on (some planet), and if you don't head there to help them, they'll eventually be wiped out and you'll lose your resources (and mining team).  You can use credits and resources to purchase new mining equipment (which can be another upgradable option) which would take the place of buying oodles of probes.  There's a lot of potential for really adding fun and immersiveness into the game with this aspect, and Bioware needs to consider how to take advantage of it for the benefit of all fans.  After all, isn't the ultimate purpose of a game to be fun?

+1
I like that, not only gives the game more immersion, but also it gives random enemies attacks. This could make the replay value sky rocket.

[angelus2402004]

Also requesting Hair and clothes for 360 users like the pc users have.

[BiancoAngelo7]

@angelus



all it would take is for the devs to give an update that changes the ini to how we have it on PC...I dont understand why they would deprive us of so much available customization?...I have PC version and I have dozens of outfits and even some armor pieces that were not in the standard version. All it took was changing the ini in very little ways and it was done. It boggles my mind why they wouldnt include things they already created in their game...

[Kurt M.]

SolitonMan wrote...

Sith_exar_kun wrote...

Can i say LOL?

When ME was out: Aw that mako is useless and boring we hate it!!
Now: bring back the Mako! that scanning thing is useless and boring we hate it!!
ME3:Bring back the Mako and the scan! $random is useless and boring we hate it?

Seems that way, doesn't it?  However, I think that what we're seeing is not fickleness but the fact that with ME1, people who hated the Mako complained about it a lot, whereas people who were fine with it said nothing.  So it did seem as though everyone hated it.  But now that those of us who didn't hate it (or *GASP* even enjoyed it) see the cost of not speaking up, we're making sure we're heard.  Clearly Bioware devs read the forums and use ideas presented therein.  I distinctly remember myself that I posted to an ME1 thread and suggested that the game should somehow incorporate using resources to upgrade the Normandy.  I'm sure many others did too, and we have the nifty mechanic of upgrades and resources in ME2, which I think is great.

But the mechanism of scanning is so poorly implemented it takes away from the overall enjoyment of the game, at least for me.  Hell, even making the scan mode a toggle instead of having to hold a @%#!$# trigger would have been a major improvement (still don't understand how that passed testing...). 

But to come back around to the point of the thread, exploration and many worlds does indeed give a keenly immersive feel to the game, and made ME1 so replayable for me.  The way to fix this situation is to make the planetary immersiveness and resource acquisition intertwined.  Instead of mindlessly scanning from space and launching probes, we should have the ability to orbit a planet, conduct a global scan that gives an estimate of its resources (Rich, Good, etc.) and then have an option to "Begin Mining Operations".  This would lead to a mining team landing on the planet and starting to recover resources.  This wouldn't be an instantaneous thing - in fact, waiting for it to be done would be foolishly time consuming.  Instead, EDI will track the progress, and when a planet is done being mined you'll get a message to go to the planet to recover your resources.

In addition to the realism this would add, you can then have your mining facilities in danger of attack from time to time so that you can have the fun of planet exploration.  Like, you'll get a message that batarians are attacking the iridium mine on (some planet), and if you don't head there to help them, they'll eventually be wiped out and you'll lose your resources (and mining team).  You can use credits and resources to purchase new mining equipment (which can be another upgradable option) which would take the place of buying oodles of probes.  There's a lot of potential for really adding fun and immersiveness into the game with this aspect, and Bioware needs to consider how to take advantage of it for the benefit of all fans.  After all, isn't the ultimate purpose of a game to be fun?

100% agree, but adding some surface exploration surprises/discoveries in addition to mines. I REALLY enjoyed discovering little things like that strange cranius, or the metallic Protean orb that brings you back to the Paleolitic era.

They were little details, but chances of discovering them really add flavour to planet exploration (at least it certainly did for me  ).

[Vena_86]

Its funny how scanning and the Mako are compared. In direct comparrison the Mako is a whole lot better.

You didnt need any resources in ME1 and you aquired them through the simpler planet and asteroid scanning and directly while driving arround with the Mako IF you cared for the resources which were never the reason you actually landed on a planet.
More diversity, more immersion, a much better sense of size and exploration and simply more fun gameplay mechanics (I take driving over moving a circle any day) make this aspect a whole lot better in ME1.
Even if it was sometimes boring to drive arround in yet another wasteland, in the bigger picture it added a great sense of greatness to the universe. Also, there is like one mission that forces you to use the Mako. With scanning however there is no way arround. This is complete design fail.
I am aware of the hammerhead. But five probably very linear missions can not make up for the lost sense of size and immersion ME1 had. And it is not part of the game anyway, its added content, the Mako was there from the beginning.

Modifié par Vena_86, 01 mars 2010 - 10:50 .

[uzivatel]

Mako was bad. I used it only to fight thresher maws and move between places later in the game(not many options there).

Sure, there were some nice vistas on the UNC planets and there were like two fun moments (one of them in DLC), but I am glad I dont have to use it in ME2.

Maybe if they took all the good things about Mako and put them in one or two mission, it would make for some mediocre DLC.

[BiancoAngelo7]

Vena_86 wrote...

I am aware of the hammerhead. But five probably very linear missions can not make up for the lost sense of size and immersion ME1 had. And it is not part of the game anyway, its added content, the Mako was there from the beginning.

EXACTLY. This is the essence of what the DEVS should take from all this. It pretty much sums everything up pretty nicely.

Modifié par BiancoAngelo7, 01 mars 2010 - 11:02 .

[diskoh]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

Please everyone fire up your copy of ME1 and land on an uncharted world.

*waits patiently*

SEE WHAT I MEAN?

lol

*fires up copy of ME1*

*lands on uncharted world*

*opens map, looks for minerals.*

*drives for 10 minutes to collect minerals. 9 minutes longer than it takes to scan a planet*

thanks for the advice, but that was boring as hell.

[BiancoAngelo7]

diskoh wrote...

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

Please everyone fire up your copy of ME1 and land on an uncharted world.

*waits patiently*

SEE WHAT I MEAN?

lol

*fires up copy of ME1*

*lands on uncharted world*

*opens map, looks for minerals.*

*drives for 10 minutes to collect minerals. 9 minutes longer than it takes to scan a planet*

thanks for the advice, but that was boring as hell.

You have obviously missed the point of Mako exploration. It wasnt to find the minerals. The minerals were just a little thing that ended up giving you more credits when you started a game in ME2. The point of Mako exploration was the EXPLORATION and IMMERSION you got from it. Not to mention the whole shooting stuff part. That was great too.

Planet scanning is the upgraded version of the minigame you got when you were surveying a mineral, hacking, unlocking whatever.

Mako currently does not have a counterpart in the game and the 5 hammerhead missions will probably not achieve the same immersion that ME1 did with the dozens of worlds you could land on, not to mention the main quests where you used the Mako as well.

[diskoh]

what exploration? there was nothing to explore. it was just the same thing over and over with a different color sky. big mountains to climb and horrible vehicle controls.