175 réponses à ce sujet

[lukandroll]

diskoh wrote...

what exploration? there was nothing to explore. it was just the same thing over and over with a different color sky. big mountains to climb and horrible vehicle controls.

Oh, sorry, I know you like the game just like it is now, but Its ok, we don't, we liked the exploration, If you don't have anything constructive to say, leave.

[Poison_Berrie]

lukandroll wrote...

diskoh wrote...

what exploration? there was nothing to explore. it was just the same thing over and over with a different color sky. big mountains to climb and horrible vehicle controls.

Oh, sorry, I know you like the game just like it is now, but Its ok, we don't, we liked the exploration, If you don't have anything constructive to say, leave.

Translation: We don't like that you don't agree with us, go away so we don't have to face other opinions.

The game did lack the grandness of scale ME1 had (or better pretended to have). I would like a bit of that back. However apart from the skyboxes, each planet became old pretty fast. It was good thing there was mission on each one and the occasional great find (prothean sphere; dragon skeleton), that made it okay for me the first and bearable the second. 

[lukandroll]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

lukandroll wrote...

diskoh wrote...

what exploration? there was nothing to explore. it was just the same thing over and over with a different color sky. big mountains to climb and horrible vehicle controls.

Oh, sorry, I know you like the game just like it is now, but Its ok, we don't, we liked the exploration, If you don't have anything constructive to say, leave.

Translation: We don't like that you don't agree with us, go away so we don't have to face other opinions.

The game did lack the grandness of scale ME1 had (or better pretended to have). I would like a bit of that back. However apart from the skyboxes, each planet became old pretty fast. It was good thing there was mission on each one and the occasional great find (prothean sphere; dragon skeleton), that made it okay for me the first and bearable the second.

Did he have positive to say? No
Did he post some solutions for the problems he posted? No
Did he expose why specifically he felt like that ? No
Did he intended to go anywhere beneficial with his comment? No

So you see, I don't need to face anything, because not only he have no argument but I already posted what I liked about space exploration and how It can be fixed to be more fun. So how I'm not facing it?

Bad controls?? The reaction of the mako was kind of weird, but it wasn't that hard to control. Did you expect that a Space Exploration vehicle to handle like a Rolls Royce?

The same thing over and over?? You mean, like shooting in a typical ME2 level?? Guess what, gaming is basically that the same thing over and over.

Big mountains to climb?? Fail, you don't need to climb any mountain if you look closely to the map, you'll find an alternative route pretty much everytime.

Modifié par lukandroll, 01 mars 2010 - 11:56 .

[NvVanity]

I'm all for more planets but Bioware needs to strive for uniqueness among them. ME1 suffered from Desert, Volcanic, Ice, Rock and grassy planets. Not much uniqueness for landing on an alien world. If they were to add more planets they need to diversify them. Sure there can be more ice or volcanic planets but don't copy and paste them. Noveria is a good example of diversifying an ice covered planet. As with Therum for volcanic.

[BiancoAngelo7]

Lukandroll has a point.



No one here is going to tell others to leave just because they didnt like the Mako. There were several people like that and I even had completely normal and civil discussions with them, and we even agreed on some points.



However, like Lukandroll says, when nothing about what you say is positive and is only intended to start a nasty debate, then the preferable option is for that person to leave.



Theres nothing wrong with expressing your opinion. Thats always welcome. There IS something wrong with statements that are made entirely to entice an ill mannered argument.



When you posted again saying what you objectively liked and disliked and gave logical examples, I completely agreed with you, planets were unique only in their atmospheres and the occasional unique mission. And in the end you yourself are saying the same thing as us, that ME2 is lacking in that feel of freedom and exploration and we would like at least a little of it back, because it made ME1 such an amazing game.



We can all be friends with logic and reasoned discussion

[BiancoAngelo7]

NvVanity wrote...

I'm all for more planets but Bioware needs to strive for uniqueness among them. ME1 suffered from Desert, Volcanic, Ice, Rock and grassy planets. Not much uniqueness for landing on an alien world. If they were to add more planets they need to diversify them. Sure there can be more ice or volcanic planets but don't copy and paste them. Noveria is a good example of diversifying an ice covered planet. As with Therum for volcanic.

I agree with you, but that would be something to hope for AFTER they actually gave us some planets to go to. As it is now, I would be satisfied with the SAME EXACT ones from ME1 if it meant I could actually explore and GO SOMEWHERE.

In ME1 they gave us literally dozens of slightly unique worlds to explore, as well as very well developed worlds and areas for main quest Mako areas.

Here they gave us nothing.

Oh sorry I forgot, we're getting 5 missions two months after the game comes out....

<_<

[diskoh]

lukandroll wrote...

Did he have positive to say? No
Did he post some solutions for the problems he posted? No
Did he expose why specifically he felt like that ? No
Did he intended to go anywhere beneficial with his comment? No

So you see, I don't need to face anything, because not only he have no argument but I already posted what I liked about space exploration and how It can be fixed to be more fun. So how I'm not facing it?

Bad controls?? The reaction of the mako was kind of weird, but it wasn't that hard to control. Did you expect that a Space Exploration vehicle to handle like a Rolls Royce?

The same thing over and over?? You mean, like shooting in a typical ME2 level?? Guess what, gaming is basically that the same thing over and over.

Big mountains to climb?? Fail, you don't need to climb any mountain if you look closely to the map, you'll find an alternative route pretty much everytime.

Cool story, bro. I always feel better after a good cry, too.

[SolitonMan]

[quote]BiancoAngelo7 wrote...
@Soliton Man

You sir, should work for Bioware. That idea would have made ME2 the epic experience that immersed me into the games universe that I was expecting. I truly hope they implement at least some if not all of what you said.
I also completely agree that when ME1 was released not enough of us were defending the mako and its positive sides. There were many after all, sure it had some flaws and on 360 controlling it was a little wierd, but it was an AMAZING part of the game.
If they implement anything like you said for ME3 I will literally wet my pants in anticipation and have an anyeurism (sp?) of pure joy![/quote]
Hey, thanks man!      Wish I could work for them, but if they just take all my ideas and requests and make them into games, I'll be satisfied with that 


[quote]lukandroll wrote...

[quotes snipped]
+1
I like that, not only gives the game more immersion, but also it gives random enemies attacks. This could make the replay value sky rocket.
[/quote]
I hadn't even considered that.  One thing I really enjoy are random encounters.  I can see keeping them out of a game when leveling is important and experience is gained from killing, but when killing is mission based, heck, throw more bad guys at us in more situations! 



[quote]Gladiador2 wrote...
[quotes snipped]
100% agree, but adding some surface exploration surprises/discoveries in addition to mines. I REALLY enjoyed discovering little things like that strange cranius, or the metallic Protean orb that brings you back to the Paleolitic era.
They were little details, but chances of discovering them really add flavour to planet exploration (at least it certainly did for me ).
[/quote]

Yes!  I suggested the mining as an option, but I definitely agree that some sort of planetary exploration helps immensely in providing the epic scope of the game.




[quote]uzivatel wrote...

Mako was bad. I used it only to fight thresher maws and move between places later in the game(not many options there).
Sure, there were some nice vistas on the UNC planets and there were like two fun moments (one of them in DLC), but I am glad I dont have to use it in ME2.
Maybe if they took all the good things about Mako and put them in one or two mission, it would make for some mediocre DLC.[/quote]

Well, that's the problem right there!    Thresher Maws are big ******, you can take 'em out easier on foot than in the Mako.  Just get close enough that they don't submerge, jump out of the Mako, and start running around them strafing.  They'll go down long before they kill you if you're at the right distance, since they can't get you with claws or sonic attack, and their acid attack keeps missing if you keep moving.

[-Skorpious-]

I don't believe this thread was specifically intended to complain solely about the lack of a drivable Mako, but rather the lack of immersion. In fact, a lack of immersion was the first great flaw I noticed about ME:2 - everything from recruitment missions, loyalty, and even N7 sidequests occurred in dull, cramped corridors. Even the overall mission structure felt uninspired - mission complete screens? Press B to return to the Normandy? What happened to Shepard discussing a mission with his crew after its completion?

Another flaw I haven't seen mentioned, yet is an extreme immersion breaker, is the lack of party banter. I understand that ME:2 has a large cast of characters, but something as simple as pressing a button to interact with teammates would go great lengths to adding to the immersion factor.

Simply put, many of us felt let down by ME:2's feelings of "Disconnection" with the rest of the galaxy and the atmosphere of the first game. Mass Effect 1 was amazing not only for its plot, but its ability to immerse gamers in a rich and believable universe. Few games can achieve such a goal - Mass Effect 2 isn't one of them.

Bioware listens and interacts with it's fanbase more than any gaming company I know of. Several of us (myself included) hope that Bioware will address, and hopefully consider, improving an aspect of the game we felt was lacking in the sequel.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 02 mars 2010 - 01:51 .

[lukandroll]

diskoh wrote...

lukandroll wrote...

Did he have positive to say? No
Did he post some solutions for the problems he posted? No
Did he expose why specifically he felt like that ? No
Did he intended to go anywhere beneficial with his comment? No

So you see, I don't need to face anything, because not only he have no argument but I already posted what I liked about space exploration and how It can be fixed to be more fun. So how I'm not facing it?

Bad controls?? The reaction of the mako was kind of weird, but it wasn't that hard to control. Did you expect that a Space Exploration vehicle to handle like a Rolls Royce?

The same thing over and over?? You mean, like shooting in a typical ME2 level?? Guess what, gaming is basically that the same thing over and over.

Big mountains to climb?? Fail, you don't need to climb any mountain if you look closely to the map, you'll find an alternative route pretty much everytime.

Cool story, bro. I always feel better after a good cry, too.

You feel better after crying??
Sorry man, I didn't want to make you cry, Here have a cookie.

Modifié par lukandroll, 02 mars 2010 - 01:54 .

[SolitonMan]

-Skorpious- wrote...

...

Another flaw I haven't seen mentioned, yet is an extreme immersion breaker, is the lack of party banter. I understand that ME:2 has a large cast of characters, but something as simple as pressing a button to interact with teammates would go great lengths to adding to the immersion factor. 

...

I started a thread some time ago called "NPC on NPC Intercourse" discussing this very issue (and yes, I was deliberately trying to be provocative; all the cool kids are doing it these days  )   I really missed that from the first game, Wrex talking about the genophage, Tali talking about the Geth, all the comments in the background made for great immersion - and usually pretty good humor, too.

Ah well. 

[Darth Drago]

lukandroll wrote...

Bad controls?? The reaction of the mako was kind of weird, but it wasn't that hard to control. Did you expect that a Space Exploration vehicle to handle like a Rolls Royce?

The same thing over and over?? You mean, like shooting in a typical ME2 level?? Guess what, gaming is basically that the same thing over and over.

Big mountains to climb?? Fail, you don't need to climb any mountain if you look closely to the map, you'll find an alternative route pretty much everytime.

How true…
-The Mako controls didn’t take that much to figure out. I didn’t like the turret dictating my direction I went though. Even worse was how it changed directions while in zoom mode. I have to wonder how many people that had issues with getting anywhere even looked at the map before driving up a mountain? There were some places that sucked with the mountains and a few crater like spots but nothing would have put me off it. It was part of exploring the chunk of map you got.

-The planet scanning feels like a mini game rather than something to immerse you in the game. Scan, probe, repeat sounds repetitive to me. Lol.

-Just be clear, the Mako is a completely different game feature than the ME2 planet scanning. The Mako helped immerse you into the game universe by letting you explore a bit. In ME2 you just get a shuttle to drop you off for each mission. In several cases you were dropped off on the front door of where your mission starts or in other cases you got to walk in on linear map layout. ME1 had planet scanning and it was also a lot simpler, you scan the planet once and got the mineral or other items that was on it. Planet scanning in ME2 to me felt more of a chore.

For those who haven’t seen this poll on Did you prefer the Mako or did you prefer Planet Scanning?
http://social.bioware.com/420093/polls/2843/


But back to the topic…

-I do miss the emersion feeling I got from playing ME1, the idle chit chat and the scenic sights. ME2 just doesn’t have the same feel not on any of the planets really. There are some locations that are cool but you don’t really get to explore any of it, like Jack’s loyalty mission. A simple short walk through the jungle would have helped here with the shuttle landing platform on another building.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 02 mars 2010 - 03:00 .

[Kurt M.]

diskoh wrote...

lukandroll wrote...

Did he have positive to say? No
Did he post some solutions for the problems he posted? No
Did he expose why specifically he felt like that ? No
Did he intended to go anywhere beneficial with his comment? No

So you see, I don't need to face anything, because not only he have no argument but I already posted what I liked about space exploration and how It can be fixed to be more fun. So how I'm not facing it?

Bad controls?? The reaction of the mako was kind of weird, but it wasn't that hard to control. Did you expect that a Space Exploration vehicle to handle like a Rolls Royce?

The same thing over and over?? You mean, like shooting in a typical ME2 level?? Guess what, gaming is basically that the same thing over and over.

Big mountains to climb?? Fail, you don't need to climb any mountain if you look closely to the map, you'll find an alternative route pretty much everytime.

Cool story, bro. I always feel better after a good cry, too.

I agree. ...With everybody that says STFU and leave.

If you didn't enjoy planet surface exploration, it's your teeny problem, not ours. Go away and play WoW if you don't like.

For my part, my only objection with ME1 exploration was that there could have been more interiors. There were only 3 layouts if I remember well (bases, underground bases and mines). A little more variety would have been great.

Planet surface was already different enough to feel "different" each planet you visit. And once you get used to them, Mako controls are like any other controls in any other game.

Modifié par Gladiador2, 02 mars 2010 - 06:12 .

[uzivatel]

Gladiador2 wrote...

I agree. ...With everybody that says STFU and leave.

If you didn't enjoy planet surface exploration, it's your teeny problem, not ours. Go away and play WoW if you don't like.

It would be our problem if BioWare were to listen to vocal minority of Mako fans and decided to implement in in ME3.
I believe one of you Mako lovers explained why its not good idea to STFU and let the other group take over the forum:

SolitonMan wrote...

Sith_exar_kun wrote...

Can i say LOL?

When ME was out: Aw that mako is useless and boring we hate it!!
Now: bring back the Mako! that scanning thing is useless and boring we hate it!!
ME3:Bring back the Mako and the scan! $random is useless and boring we hate it?

Seems that way, doesn't it?  However, I think that what we're seeing is not fickleness but the fact that with ME1, people who hated the Mako complained about it a lot, whereas people who were fine with it said nothing.  So it did seem as though everyone hated it.  But now that those of us who didn't hate it (or *GASP* even enjoyed it) see the cost of not speaking up, we're making sure we're heard.  Clearly Bioware devs read the forums and use ideas presented therein.

[diskoh]

Gladiador2 wrote...

If you didn't enjoy planet surface exploration, it's your teeny problem, not ours. Go away and play WoW if you don't like.

I think I'll just play Mass Effect 2, since they got rid of that boring **** due to popular demand.

[Massadonious1]

And once you get used to them, Mako controls are like any other controls in any other game.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 02 mars 2010 - 08:26 .

[lovely jubley]

You should shoot out makos instead of probes and they drive around and pick up minerals. Then they................ Press B and return to the ship? Or you leave them there and go feed your fish.

[diskoh]

Massadonious1 wrote...

And once you get used to them, Mako controls are like any other controls in any other game.

haha, oh Virmire. after my first playthrough I just got out and did that whole map on foot. It's much funner than driving around in that stupid car.

Modifié par diskoh, 02 mars 2010 - 08:38 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

Can we please tone down the animosity? This isnt supposed to be a debate on wether or not the Mako was good. The Mako was in ME1 and is most likely never going to return.



Here we are talking about the lack of immersion into the game's universe due to the complete lack of EXPLORATION and PLANET SURFACES.



So let's all try and get along, different people like different things, there's nothing wrong with that.



Here I was trying to simply connect people who also felt that ME2 lost its "soul" when the entire game took place on linear and corridor like areas, completely eradicating the vastness of space by not giving us the planet side exploration that we had in ME1.



Lets all try to be nice.

[Poison_Berrie]

Stop baiting, people. Do you guys really think telling some on to STFU and leave, will actually make them to that instead of be insulted?

Gladiador2 wrote...
For my part, my only objection with ME1 exploration was that there could have been more interiors. There were only 3 layouts if I remember well (bases, underground bases and mines). A little more variety would have been great.

Planet surface was already different enough to feel "different" each planet you visit. And once you get used to them, Mako controls are like any other controls in any other game.

I disagree. Each planet was basically the same with a different paint job and perhaps a "be-outside-the-MAKO-restriction". The only thing truly unique and alien about planets were the sky-boxes. Almost all side-mission planets could have just as likely been planetoids.

I would love to see planet exploration and the sense of grandness returning, but it would have to be an improvement over the first game. I don't care if that means we get less of them, I don't want the planets to look like some randomizer spit them out.
Let the shuttle drop you off a few miles out and let your target be approachable by several routes that don't feel like boxed in canyons. Give some size to the thing even if it's just there for show.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 02 mars 2010 - 09:42 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

Yeah I would love that too. The ideal perfect world would be a solution where they gave us many planets to go to, AND made them unique, interesting and full of varying circumstances.



But since I don't have high hopes for that happening seeing as how we had 0 planets at launch, at this point Id settle for a bunch of cookie cutter but beautiful worlds. Thats just my opinion though.

[Kurt M.]

diskoh wrote...

Gladiador2 wrote...

If you didn't enjoy planet surface exploration, it's your teeny problem, not ours. Go away and play WoW if you don't like.

I think I'll just play Mass Effect 2, since they got rid of that boring **** due to popular demand.

...which is the same "boring ****" they're reintroducing with the Hammerhead due to popular demand

I disagree. Each planet was basically the same with a different
paint job and perhaps a "be-outside-the-MAKO-restriction". The only
thing truly unique and alien about planets were the sky-boxes. Almost
all side-mission planets could have just as likely been planetoids.

I said "different enough", not "completely different". I agree there's a vast room for improvement and variety, but it's not the type "one seen, all seen". Not totally, at least.

Modifié par Gladiador2, 02 mars 2010 - 11:38 .

[Poison_Berrie]

Gladiador2 wrote...
I said "different enough", not "completely different". I agree there's a vast room for improvement and variety, but it's not the type "one seen, all seen". Not totally, at least.

It was saved only by virtue of the skyboxes (there are nice ones in ME 2 as well), occasional animal and surprising structure and the occasional snow/dust/meteor storm. The pallet changes did not fool me.

You don't necessary need a vehicle to accomplish this. Put the player in a high position, give them a look at the surroundings, even if you can't get there it already improves the scale of the environment. 
Also Zaeed's loyalty mission comes to mind as a better basis for side missions. NPC interaction, larger environment. This was the way I hoped side missions would be.

[Vena_86]

diskoh wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

And once you get used to them, Mako controls are like any other controls in any other game.

haha, oh Virmire. after my first playthrough I just got out and did that whole map on foot. It's much funner than driving around in that stupid car.

I dont know if it matters but I played ME on PC and nothing like this ever happened to me. Either the xbox controlls were seriously retarded or the players behind the controller....