83 réponses à ce sujet

[Jeremy Winston]

I've been watching a lot of "ending" videos... some renegade, some paragon, some mixed.

In all cases (even pure renegade, with the base saved) Shepard still can tell TIM to get ouf of his way.  "I'm going to stop the Reapers  If you can keep up, fine."  Or something to that.

So, in all endings, Shepard is sort of alienated from Cerberus.  But, does he ever actually break off the relationship?  TIM may be upset with him.  They have disagreements, but they still need each other.  Even Miranda's "resignation" may just be talk... TIM may not accept the resignation.

Shepard does say (in the pure Paragon ending) that he's now doing things HIS way and is not following TIM's lead.  That doesn't necessarily mean he's breaking up the relationship, but simple redefining it.

At the end, regardless of the ending (assuming Shepard lives), he's still in a Cerberus owned ship with, theoretically, a Cerberus controlled AI which will still have Cerberus controlled programming.  While it's possible that removing the blocks truly allows EDI to be her own person, I kind of doubt it.

Also, any missions you do post collector base still earn Cerberus funding, and email from Cerberus command are the same as always.  This could be an oversight, but considering that the game intends to railroad you to the ending after the IFF mission, it would seem odd that they would not take into consideration your possible break from Cerberus before doing those missions.

Thoughts?

[Madecologist]

I think Shepard does break off from Cerberus if you make him. But I doubt it means that Shepard will not talk to TIM though. Basically I get the impression that Shepard is saying to TIM that he will do things his way. He can either help you or shut up. But you are not gonna listen to him anymore. In ME2 Shepard has a subserviant role to TIM. Something a lot of people balk at actually. But Shepard does what TIM asks. Sure there is good reason to do so, but TIM is pulling the strings so to speak. At the end Shepard can establish his independance if he wants.

[didymos1120]

Yeah, but you can play Shepard as pretty knowing and not buying TIMs apparent "altruism" and fully expecting TIM's little fit at the end. And do so without just coming off as a snarky renegade with authority issues.

Modifié par didymos1120, 26 février 2010 - 02:54 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Very good OP.

Scores of people think that Normandy is their ship. But she isn't. And it's definitely not like TIM is going to let go the 4 billion credit job of his (aka Cmdr. Cyborg-Zombie Shepard).

He tells Shepard in the beginning that if nothing is found on Freedom's Progress, they can part ways... But he is either insincere on this one, or simply holds back the part about the price Shepard has to pay Cerberus for... err.. healthcare services.

I think that through ME2 DLCs this matter will be avoided / hushed down / played out in ambigous ways. And at the start of ME3 there is another major plot twist, that will cut the ties and allow players to quit Cerberus or rejoin it for good.

That said, it's not impossible, however lame, that TIM (read: BioWare writers) will goof off and sell out even his most loyal Shepards, or turn absolutely evil.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 26 février 2010 - 03:02 .

[OverlordNexas]

It really depends on what TIM wants to do. Either he can accept that Shepard is the one calling the shots and continue to supply him with information or he can cut ties completely. TIM won't go and try to kill Shepard as he's far to valuable to the survival of the human race.

[glacier1701]

The way it reads in the dialog tree is that Shepard tells TIM that TIM is now working for Shepard and not the other way around. Yet the conversation comes out completely differently and does sound like Shepard tells TIM to get lost. If you then talk to Jacob he basically tells you what a great way to tell the boss you quit.



About the only thing missing was being able to do that in person. And yes you should be able to since Miranda knows where TIM hangs out. We see that at the beginning of ME2. Now that would have been nice.

[Zulu_DFA]

OverlordNexas wrote...

It really depends on what TIM wants to do. Either he can accept that Shepard is the one calling the shots and continue to supply him with information or he can cut ties completely. TIM won't go and try to kill Shepard as he's far to valuable to the survival of the human race.

Incorrect. TIM's in business longer than Shepard. No matter what you think, TIM thinks he knows better. And if you destroyed the Collector base, I doubt TIM believes you're useful any more, other that "1st Human Spectre" trademark. He'll discard you, should that become a necessity in his books.

[didymos1120]

glacier1701 wrote...
About the only thing missing was being able to do that in person. And yes you should be able to since Miranda knows where TIM hangs out. We see that at the beginning of ME2. Now that would have been nice.

TIM's the kind of guy who'd get a new, secure office.  Probably has like eighty in reserve anyway.

[Zulu_DFA]

glacier1701 wrote...
 Miranda knows where TIM hangs out. .

Or does she?

[Aisynia]

Paragon OR Renegade, I like to think that I have effectively staged a coup and took OVER Cerberus.

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

glacier1701 wrote...
 Miranda knows where TIM hangs out. .

Or does she?

Yeah, or that.

[CMP023]

Well, if you talk to the Normandys crew, they all make quite obvious you just resigned to Cerberus..

Jacob: "Way to tell your boss your quitting. Wish I coulve seen TIMs face."

Jacob: "(After some talking).... Now that Cerberus is after your tail."



Miranda also comments about leaving Cerberus, and if im not wrong, Joker too.

[Eshaye]

In ME1 it was made pretty clear that Cerberus is a rogue Alliance black operations branch. BUT In ME2 we learn that even though officially Cerberus is the 'bad guy' they get funding from unknown Alliance personel.... So in reality Cerberus is still Alliance and I think they are sincere when they say they want the best for humanity as a whole no matter the cost. 

So really does it matter what Shepard does? Not really, be in league for Cerberus or hand in the Normandy to the Alliance you'll still be working for the Alliance directly or indirectly. As for the ending of the game and still getting intel from Cerberus I think of it like a divorce, you still have to co-exist until papers are drawn up and boxes are packed, but you're no longer a 'team'. It's like quitting a job but having to stay for another 2 weeks or month because it's in your contract. 

[Zulu_DFA]

Aisynia wrote...

Paragon OR Renegade, I like to think that I have effectively staged a coup and took OVER Cerberus.

Lazarus cell, at most.

[didymos1120]

Aisynia wrote...

Paragon OR Renegade, I like to think that I have effectively staged a coup and took OVER Cerberus.

You can rest assured that TIM still has many tricks up his finely tailored sleeves.

[OverlordNexas]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

It really depends on what TIM wants to do. Either he can accept that Shepard is the one calling the shots and continue to supply him with information or he can cut ties completely. TIM won't go and try to kill Shepard as he's far to valuable to the survival of the human race.

Incorrect. TIM's in business longer than Shepard. No matter what you think, TIM thinks he knows better. And if you destroyed the Collector base, I doubt TIM believes you're useful any more, other that "1st Human Spectre" trademark. He'll discard you, should that become a necessity in his books.

I'll have to disagree. If anything he's more likely to try and get rid of Shepard if he kept the base, as he's already accomplished what he needed him to do. Without the Reaper technology, the only thing TIM's still got going for him is Shepard and his allies, and if your playing Paragon then Shepard has a lot of powerful allies.

[didymos1120]

Eshaye wrote...

In ME1 it was made pretty clear that Cerberus is a rogue Alliance black operations branch. BUT In ME2 we learn that even though officially Cerberus is the 'bad guy' they get funding from unknown Alliance personel.... So in reality Cerberus is still Alliance and I think they are sincere when they say they want the best for humanity as a whole no matter the cost. 

No, they're just damn good at infilitration.  It's more like some unknown portion of the Alliance is Cerberus.

Modifié par didymos1120, 26 février 2010 - 03:15 .

[Tleining]

I don't think TIM really cares about what you do. If you watch the ending where Shepard dies, you get a pretty good idea about why you were brought back. Sure, TIM spend billions to rebuild you and Normandy 2, but in the end, he gets THE most advanced base in the galaxy.

Shepard and the Normandy were a means to an end, and that end is control of the collector base. Shepard, the Normandy, your entire team were expendable. And the ever loyal Miranda was the final Failsafe to take control of the base.

With EDI unshakled, Mordin, Miranda and Tali fully aware of the surveillance equipment and more than capable to take it out, TIM has lost all control of the Normandy.



The thing is: in order to defeat the Reapers, everyone is needed. Cerberus is financed by people who can afford to pour billions of credits into cerberus, without knowing what kind of result it will bring. That kind of money will be needed to save the galaxy. So Shepard should find a way to use Cerberus.

[Zulu_DFA]

didymos1120 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

glacier1701 wrote...
 Miranda knows where TIM hangs out. .

Or does she?

Yeah, or that.

She is in the same office with him in the opening ME2 sequence. That does not mean she knows how to get in/out, or iw what star cluster it is. Hell, have anyone read freaking "3 Musketeers"?

It also does not mean, like you said, TIM has only one office. He may have a dozen of them, with exactly the same interior.

[Jeremy Winston]

CMP023 wrote...

Well, if you talk to the Normandys crew, they all make quite obvious you just resigned to Cerberus..
Jacob: "Way to tell your boss your quitting. Wish I coulve seen TIMs face."
Jacob: "(After some talking).... Now that Cerberus is after your tail."

Miranda also comments about leaving Cerberus, and if im not wrong, Joker too.

Odd how Miranda never says anything about quitting, though.  I mean, after the mission's over and such.

In fact, her job is still to send status reports to TIM.  You'd think they might have changed that.  EDI also still sends reports to TIM, according to the dialog tree.

I know there are plot holes in general, and it's hard to catch everything, but having the crew have appropriate dialog for this... I don't know.. perhaps I expect too much.

[McBeath]

TIM is the kind of person who gets things done regardless. This will include supporting Shepard no matter how hurt his personal pride it.



If you talk to EDI after the blocks are removed she tells you that Cerberus was the group that influanced the Alliance to build the first Normandy with the Turians because it was in humanities best interest. So is supporting Shepard. Not everything TIM does is ruthless, its just practical. TIM is far too smart to not have antisipated Shepard staying "a good guy", and had to prepare for the Cerberus relationship to come to an end.



They need each other, at least until the reapers are dealt with.

[Eshaye]

didymos1120 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

In ME1 it was made pretty clear that Cerberus is a rogue Alliance black operations branch. BUT In ME2 we learn that even though officially Cerberus is the 'bad guy' they get funding from unknown Alliance personel.... So in reality Cerberus is still Alliance and I think they are sincere when they say they want the best for humanity as a whole no matter the cost. 

No, they're just damn good at infilitration.  It's more like some unknown portion of the Alliance is Cerberus.

You get that from where? Because in the game itself it says this: Cerberus is the codename for a black ops organization that was formerly part of the Alliance military, but which has now gone rogue.

[Man785]

Shepard should install Miranda as the head of Cerberus. Miranda changed by Shep's influence can turn the organization around or keep it going the same direction. Maybe with enough Red/Blue you can get TIM's willingness to step aside. Just a thought.

[GenericPlayer2]

My Renegade Shep told TIM things like "I know what you are and the price of dealing with you" and "You can get in line or get out of my way". That seems like a solid finger to TIM. I hope we get an opportunity for some real closure (i.e. shoot TIM in the face) in ME3.

[Zulu_DFA]

OverlordNexas wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

It really depends on what TIM wants to do. Either he can accept that Shepard is the one calling the shots and continue to supply him with information or he can cut ties completely. TIM won't go and try to kill Shepard as he's far to valuable to the survival of the human race.

Incorrect. TIM's in business longer than Shepard. No matter what you think, TIM thinks he knows better. And if you destroyed the Collector base, I doubt TIM believes you're useful any more, other that "1st Human Spectre" trademark. He'll discard you, should that become a necessity in his books.

I'll have to disagree. If anything he's more likely to try and get rid of Shepard if he kept the base, as he's already accomplished what he needed him to do. Without the Reaper technology, the only thing TIM's still got going for him is Shepard and his allies, and if your playing Paragon then Shepard has a lot of powerful allies.

I play as renegade, kept the Base, have trust in TIM, believe in his Cause and I don't have a little sis to fuss about. That means I have lower maintanance costs for him than Miranda.