83 réponses à ce sujet

[Zem_]

I'm not sure I see how TIM has any less control over Shep than he did at the beginning of the game. Which is to say, not much. Miranda mentions at the start how SHE would have implanted some kind of mind-control chip in Shep to ensure things went her way. If TIM had done that, you'd think he would have used that at the end to save the Collector base. Other than that, all he ever did was "suggest" things and you carried them out, presumably of your own free will. Even if you the player didn't always have a choice, there was still no coercion involved.



So in ME3 I fail to see how he won't still be contacting Shep and saying, "I've learned of yaddayadda Reaper threat blahblahblah... and I think you should check it out if you want to save the galaxy, mkay?"

[Zulu_DFA]

Eshaye wrote...
You get that from where? Because in the game itself it says this: Cerberus is the codename for a black ops organization that was formerly part of the Alliance military, but which has now gone rogue.

... officially. Because some alien-loving appeasers in the Alliance Parliament (being probably on STG payroll) became vocal about it. Doesn't mean all Alliance honchos think so. Maybe Udina is Cerberus undercover operative!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 26 février 2010 - 03:26 .

[didymos1120]

Eshaye wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

In ME1 it was made pretty clear that Cerberus is a rogue Alliance black operations branch. BUT In ME2 we learn that even though officially Cerberus is the 'bad guy' they get funding from unknown Alliance personel.... So in reality Cerberus is still Alliance and I think they are sincere when they say they want the best for humanity as a whole no matter the cost. 

No, they're just damn good at infilitration.  It's more like some unknown portion of the Alliance is Cerberus.

You get that from where? Because in the game itself it says this: Cerberus is the codename for a black ops organization that was formerly part of the Alliance military, but which has now gone rogue.

ME: Ascension, mostly.  It is canon.  It's also simple logic: they couldn't have all the access and information they do and yet people like Anderson and Kahoku know nothing about them being part of the Alliance still.  And they recruit. Actively.  We know this.  Also, look at how people in Cerberus say they aren't Alliance, and actively dislike it.

Modifié par didymos1120, 26 février 2010 - 03:29 .

[OverlordNexas]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

It really depends on what TIM wants to do. Either he can accept that Shepard is the one calling the shots and continue to supply him with information or he can cut ties completely. TIM won't go and try to kill Shepard as he's far to valuable to the survival of the human race.

Incorrect. TIM's in business longer than Shepard. No matter what you think, TIM thinks he knows better. And if you destroyed the Collector base, I doubt TIM believes you're useful any more, other that "1st Human Spectre" trademark. He'll discard you, should that become a necessity in his books.

I'll have to disagree. If anything he's more likely to try and get rid of Shepard if he kept the base, as he's already accomplished what he needed him to do. Without the Reaper technology, the only thing TIM's still got going for him is Shepard and his allies, and if your playing Paragon then Shepard has a lot of powerful allies.

I play as renegade, kept the Base, have trust in TIM, believe in his Cause and I don't have a little sis to fuss about. That means I have lower maintanance costs for him than Miranda.

Thats you, but there are plenty of Paragon and middle of the road Shepards who kept the base as well, and those Shepards may seem a liability to TIM. Also Renegade tend to be pretty loose cannons TIM might not want those running around either.

Modifié par OverlordNexas, 26 février 2010 - 03:28 .

[Eshaye]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Eshaye wrote...
You get that from where? Because in the game itself it says this: Cerberus is the codename for a black ops organization that was formerly part of the Alliance military, but which has now gone rogue.

... officially. Because some alien-loving appeasers in the Alliance Parliament (being probably on STG payroll) became vocal about it. Doesn't mean all Alliance honchos think so. Maybe Udina is Cerberus undercover operative!

Honestly wouldn't surprise! lol 

[Zulu_DFA]

OverlordNexas wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

It really depends on what TIM wants to do. Either he can accept that Shepard is the one calling the shots and continue to supply him with information or he can cut ties completely. TIM won't go and try to kill Shepard as he's far to valuable to the survival of the human race.

Incorrect. TIM's in business longer than Shepard. No matter what you think, TIM thinks he knows better. And if you destroyed the Collector base, I doubt TIM believes you're useful any more, other that "1st Human Spectre" trademark. He'll discard you, should that become a necessity in his books.

I'll have to disagree. If anything he's more likely to try and get rid of Shepard if he kept the base, as he's already accomplished what he needed him to do. Without the Reaper technology, the only thing TIM's still got going for him is Shepard and his allies, and if your playing Paragon then Shepard has a lot of powerful allies.

I play as renegade, kept the Base, have trust in TIM, believe in his Cause and I don't have a little sis to fuss about. That means I have lower maintanance costs for him than Miranda.

Thats you, but there are plenty of Paragon and middle of the road Shepards who kept the base as well, and those Shepards may seem a liability to TIM.

Doesn't give hiim immediate reason to sell you out. As I said, even if destroyed the base, you may be of some use to him still. Take Aria as an example: "She does not destroy what she can use". TIM is clever too, and he won't just rush to conclusion that Shepard is an **** and must be killed or somthing. Shepard is an investment.

[NICKjnp]

I did... and I told him that I had a hard time understanding because there was a lot of bull**** on the line.

[OverlordNexas]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

It really depends on what TIM wants to do. Either he can accept that Shepard is the one calling the shots and continue to supply him with information or he can cut ties completely. TIM won't go and try to kill Shepard as he's far to valuable to the survival of the human race.

Incorrect. TIM's in business longer than Shepard. No matter what you think, TIM thinks he knows better. And if you destroyed the Collector base, I doubt TIM believes you're useful any more, other that "1st Human Spectre" trademark. He'll discard you, should that become a necessity in his books.

I'll have to disagree. If anything he's more likely to try and get rid of Shepard if he kept the base, as he's already accomplished what he needed him to do. Without the Reaper technology, the only thing TIM's still got going for him is Shepard and his allies, and if your playing Paragon then Shepard has a lot of powerful allies.

I play as renegade, kept the Base, have trust in TIM, believe in his Cause and I don't have a little sis to fuss about. That means I have lower maintanance costs for him than Miranda.

Thats you, but there are plenty of Paragon and middle of the road Shepards who kept the base as well, and those Shepards may seem a liability to TIM.

Doesn't give hiim immediate reason to sell you out. As I said, even if destroyed the base, you may be of some use to him still. Take Aria as an example: "She does not destroy what she can use". TIM is clever too, and he won't just rush to conclusion that Shepard is an **** and must be killed or somthing. Shepard is an investment.

wut?

[CMP023]

Well, I guess it will not matter if Shep left or not, when TIM Assumes direct controll of Sheppard through his funky Lazarus tech lol. (In a monotone voice: "*Conspiring* Mark my word on this one")

[Alneverus]

I doubt that, until the Reapers are dealt with, TIM will do much to Shepard. Even with the Collector base saved Shepard still has another role to fulfill that Cerberus needs. He's the damned hero of the Citadel Battle (Miranda refers to him as a 'Bloody Icon' in the opening sequence).



Thus when **** hits the fan TIM isn't going to be able to rally the forces needed to take on the Reapers, he'll need Shepard for that (regardless of what you told him).

[Zulu_DFA]

OverlordNexas wrote...

Doesn't give him immediate reason to sell you out. As I said, even if destroyed the base, you may be of some use to him still. Take Aria as an example: "She does not destroy what she can use". TIM is clever too, and he won't just rush to conclusion that Shepard is an **** and must be killed or somthing. Shepard is an investment.

wut?

Working with the "1st Human Spectre" makes TIM look good. He just waits till you rebuild your reputation, then sends in a hitman, then makes it public knowledge that the late Commander Shepard was actually brought back from the dead by Cerberus, so that he could continue his goody two-shows feats on the Galaxy's behalf. It's called PR. It looks like it was his minimal plan for the Paragon Sole-Survivor Council-Saving Shepard.

Unless you'll try actively to undermine Cerberus further. Then you will become a liability, of course, needing to get shot ASAP.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 26 février 2010 - 04:10 .

[CajunRexShepard]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Working with the "1st Human Spectre" makes TIM look good. He just waits till you rebuild your reputation, then sends in a hitman, then makes it public knowledge that the late Commander Shepard was actually brought back from the dead by Cerberus, so that he could continue his goody two-shows feats on the Galaxy's behalf. It's called PR. It looks like it was his minimal plan for the Paragon Sole-Survivor Council-Saving Shepard.

Unless you'll try actively to undermine Cerberus further. Then you will become a liability, of course, needing to get shot ASAP.

I doubt it. Shep has shown the ability to put down or convert any and every cerberus agent he's come across so far... TIM realizes crossing this icon, this hero is both bad for PR and bad for his organization. If anything points to shep further undermining cerberus on an organizational level, TIM will probably just have his cells go to ground or take up operations further from wherever Shepard is operating, in typical terrorista fashion. Hide until the threat gives up the search, then resume as normal.  That being said, 'quitting' in such a moment may have been just talk from both sides, I.E. they'll realize when they calm down that it is pretty important to have the support of the other... at least until the reapers are dealt with... or achieve final victory.

[tkaz85]

I did the paragon ending, and Miranda made no mention of quitting Cerberus. Does she have to be my LI for this to happen?

[OverlordNexas]

tkaz85 wrote...

I did the paragon ending, and Miranda made no mention of quitting Cerberus. Does she have to be my LI for this to happen?

Only happens if you bring her to the final battle. TIM tells her to stop Shepard from blowing up the bases and she resigns. I imagine Jacob probably says something similar.

[Vanaer]

Eshaye wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

In ME1 it was made pretty clear that Cerberus is a rogue Alliance black operations branch. BUT In ME2 we learn that even though officially Cerberus is the 'bad guy' they get funding from unknown Alliance personel.... So in reality Cerberus is still Alliance and I think they are sincere when they say they want the best for humanity as a whole no matter the cost. 

No, they're just damn good at infilitration.  It's more like some unknown portion of the Alliance is Cerberus.

You get that from where? Because in the game itself it says this: Cerberus is the codename for a black ops organization that was formerly part of the Alliance military, but which has now gone rogue.

Actually, EDI says the Alliance MIC (Military Industrial Complex) funds Cerberus. Judging they have an interest to see human military spending go up, they have a reason to a. increase human presence and/or b. ignite a war.

[ObserverStatus]

Isn't Shepard being kept alive by cerberus owned cybernetic implants? If he really quit TIM could just pull the plug.
For that matter i wonder if renegade Shepard is worried that he is no longer TIM's "most valuable asset?"

Modifié par bobobo878, 26 février 2010 - 05:04 .

[tkaz85]

OverlordNexas wrote...

tkaz85 wrote...

I did the paragon ending, and Miranda made no mention of quitting Cerberus. Does she have to be my LI for this to happen?

Only happens if you bring her to the final battle. TIM tells her to stop Shepard from blowing up the bases and she resigns. I imagine Jacob probably says something similar.

....time for playthrough #3!

[kraidy1117]

I think we will have a choice to work for Cerberus, quit or actual take control of it, because if you pick certain dialog it hints to it as Shepard says you work for me now. All I want is TIM to return in ME3, he is one of the best characters in the ME universe and Martin Sheen is epic.

[Habelo]

Does anyone feel like TIM placed just the right people into your crew just to get you to change your mind?



Its like: hmm i have to get shepard to be my lap dog, lets make his whole crew saints who really do believe in cerberus.

[kraidy1117]

Vanaer wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

In ME1 it was made pretty clear that Cerberus is a rogue Alliance black operations branch. BUT In ME2 we learn that even though officially Cerberus is the 'bad guy' they get funding from unknown Alliance personel.... So in reality Cerberus is still Alliance and I think they are sincere when they say they want the best for humanity as a whole no matter the cost. 

No, they're just damn good at infilitration.  It's more like some unknown portion of the Alliance is Cerberus.

You get that from where? Because in the game itself it says this: Cerberus is the codename for a black ops organization that was formerly part of the Alliance military, but which has now gone rogue.

Actually, EDI says the Alliance MIC (Military Industrial Complex) funds Cerberus. Judging they have an interest to see human military spending go up, they have a reason to a. increase human presence and/or b. ignite a war.

SOME people in the complex fund Cerberus, not all.

[TuringPoint]

Jeremy Winston wrote...
  While it's possible that removing the blocks truly allows EDI to be her own person, I kind of doubt it.

Thoughts?

So basically you can't put two and two together, which makes you think you're impossibly smart.  

[Fiannawolf]

In fact, while quitting cerberus, I want an option to go to Anderson with all the intel gained on the 3 headed dog and totally hit Capt rank for it.



Plus: Anderson could say "Yea, we wanted Shepard as a mole in the organization! That was the plan allll along!"

[JFRICH]

The whole team has major doubts about giving the base to TIM when you keep it. If You destroy it They are all sure it was the correct choice. So Who really knows for sure. I have both options in My saves.

[Zulu_DFA]

Fiannawolf wrote...

In fact, while quitting cerberus, I want an option to go to Anderson with all the intel gained on the 3 headed dog and totally hit Capt rank for it.

Plus: Anderson could say "Yea, we wanted Shepard as a mole in the organization! That was the plan allll along!"

What intel do you have? You and Miranda lead only one cell of Cerberus, called Lazarus. That's it. EDI is not able to provide you with any informantion but approximates and estimates on such and such. Oh, you might have kept that intel pack from a side mission, but that can't be much (otherwise it wouldn't be like "Oh, and if you have time, go look for a stray operative").

TIM's sure to have a lot of safeguards between you and him.

[sergio71785]

CMP023 wrote...

Well, if you talk to the Normandys crew, they all make quite obvious you just resigned to Cerberus..
Jacob: "Way to tell your boss your quitting. Wish I coulve seen TIMs face."
Jacob: "(After some talking).... Now that Cerberus is after your tail."

Miranda also comments about leaving Cerberus, and if im not wrong, Joker too.

Yeah, at the end of the conversation with TIM, Shepard says "Joker, lose this channel"  too

All this really does support that he's broken ties with Cerberus. I feel kinda bad though, I mean, I basically stole the ship...