83 réponses à ce sujet

[JFRICH]

If We really quit Cerberus We need to ditch Their Logo ASAP!!!!

[didymos1120]

Vanaer wrote...
Actually, EDI says the Alliance MIC (Military Industrial Complex) funds Cerberus. Judging they have an interest to see human military spending go up, they have a reason to a. increase human presence and/or b. ignite a war.

Military Industrial Complex != Military != Alliance.  We're talking probably hundreds of thousands (if not millions depending on where you mark off certain boundaries) of people in the public and private sectors, tons of complicated financial deals, instruments, contracts, multiple partially autonomous gov't agencies, policies, laws, etc., etc., etc., ...

All sorts of ways to siphon cash off of such a labyrynthine, delocalized, and ever-shifiting entity.

Modifié par didymos1120, 26 février 2010 - 08:09 .

[Valmy]

I never thought I was officially part of Cerberus, I was just an asset to them so long as our goals coincided.

[Cypher0020]

I kinda told Timmy to shove it... then the second time I tried to get him to join my team... unsuccessfully



Much as I want to go rogue..... I think we sorta need Cerberus to finish fighting in the war.... weather we like it or not.... they have the up and up with the Collectors, the IFF, EDI, etc....

[Jeremy Winston]

Alocormin wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...
  While it's possible that removing the blocks truly allows EDI to be her own person, I kind of doubt it.

Thoughts?

So basically you can't put two and two together, which makes you think you're impossibly smart.  

I'm sorry?  I have no idea what you're saying there, except that you are apparently insulting me.

[BlackenBlue]

My thinking is that the mission to find the Cerberus operative, where Shepard downloads the data at the end and has the choice of sending it to the Alliance, to Cerberus, or keeping it for himself /herself might be a factor in how things play out.



If Shepard sent it to the Alliance, it could lead to Cerberus being weakened so that TIM can't do anything to Shepard because he either doesn't have the resources or has to use them to fend off the Alliance.



If Shepard kept the data, it could be used to blackmail TIM into letting Shepard do what he/she wants or into leaving Shepard alone. (Ie, you attack me, the Alliance gets it)



I'll be disappointed if that mission doesn't have any consequences in ME3.

[didymos1120]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...
  While it's possible that removing the blocks truly allows EDI to be her own person, I kind of doubt it.

Thoughts?

So basically you can't put two and two together, which makes you think you're impossibly smart.  

I'm sorry?  I have no idea what you're saying there, except that you are apparently insulting me.

I saw what you were getting at ( I think): EDI may be a person, in that she's sentient, but she's still code dependent on hardware, both of which Cerberus created and/or installed.  And, knowing TIM, he quite likely has something set up to assert some level of control over her whether she consents or not. There could still be any number of programs/routines blocked, or cunningly hidden hardware, that she isn't, and even can't be, aware of.  More or less your point?

Modifié par didymos1120, 26 février 2010 - 09:04 .

[Jeremy Winston]

didymos1120 wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...
  While it's possible that removing the blocks truly allows EDI to be her own person, I kind of doubt it.

Thoughts?

So basically you can't put two and two together, which makes you think you're impossibly smart.  

I'm sorry?  I have no idea what you're saying there, except that you are apparently insulting me.

I saw what you were getting at ( I think): EDI may be a person, in that she's sentient, but she's still code dependent on hardware, both of which Cerberus created and/or installed.  And, knowing TIM, he quite likely has something set up to assert some level of control over her whether she consents or not. There could still be any number of programs/routines blocked, or cunningly hidden hardware, that she isn't, and even can't be, aware of.  More or less your point?

Yes.  Exactly.

After the crew is taken, when they're in the briefing room, she makes a statement (at least in my paragon run) after Shepard says, "She could have killed us at any time."

She says something like, "Not only am I bound by my programming, but you're my crewmates as well."

This can indicate that she has programmatic controls on her actions, or it might just be her AI-style of saying, "morals."

Modifié par Jeremy Winston, 26 février 2010 - 09:17 .

[tropicalwave]

EDI is the biggest problem in Cerberus' control of the Normandy. As far as EDI is concerned now she is the Normandy. She describes it as so, she is an AI so anything you end up trying to do with her would be like the Quarian's and the Geth. She will not want to be disabled or blocked or even removed from the Normandy. She also apparently has a lot of good information on TIM (probably even knows where he is located since she has been sending and recieving info and Miranda has been there as well).



I think EDI is the Normandy and she'll do what she pleases at this point. I also think she has a deep attatchment to Joker that hopefully will come into play during ME3. Though I also think that TIM will allow Shepard to do whatever, he did want her to be all she was before they rebuilt her (hence no control chip.)



He'll let the money go if he thinks it is for the better good of humanity and he is in support of Shepard being the best thing for humanity ih the long run. After all I bet he spent more on Shepard then on the Normandy.

[Zulu_DFA]

BlackenBlue wrote...

My thinking is that the mission to find the Cerberus operative, where Shepard downloads the data at the end and has the choice of sending it to the Alliance, to Cerberus, or keeping it for himself /herself might be a factor in how things play out.

If Shepard sent it to the Alliance, it could lead to Cerberus being weakened so that TIM can't do anything to Shepard because he either doesn't have the resources or has to use them to fend off the Alliance.

If Shepard kept the data, it could be used to blackmail TIM into letting Shepard do what he/she wants or into leaving Shepard alone. (Ie, you attack me, the Alliance gets it)

I'll be disappointed if that mission doesn't have any consequences in ME3.

It's the only "N7" mission, that triggers without scanning a random planet. So, possibly, yes, they made it this way intentionally, and the choice will affect ME3.

BTW, I wonder about Terra Firma endorsement request and the drug addictive negotiantions guy's request in ME1. Both quests were very hard to miss, but the choices were not reflected in ME2 even by a silly e-mail.

[redguppie]

I think the best way to say it is he is no longer willing to work for Cerberus but isn't adverse to working with as long as they follow his lead.

[Barquiel]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

BTW, I wonder about Terra Firma endorsement request and the drug addictive negotiantions guy's request in ME1. Both quests were very hard to miss, but the choices were not reflected in ME2 even by a silly e-mail.

The negotiation guy was already mentioned in ME1 (elevator radio)

[Pauravi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Scores of people think that Normandy is their ship. But she isn't. And it's definitely not like TIM is going to let go the 4 billion credit job of his (aka Cmdr. Cyborg-Zombie Shepard).

But what can he do about it?  Pretty much nothing.
Granted, you'll probably have Cerberus forces trying to take you out during ME3, but I'm pretty sure you just ship-jacked him.  It isn't like he has a remote control for the Normandy, and if he does EDI would fry it.

[Pauravi]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Even Miranda's "resignation" may just be talk... TIM may not accept the resignation.

What does that even mean?  So what if he didn't accept her resignation?
Is she gonna just say, "aww... okay, you win"?  Miranda doesn't have a control chip implanted in her or anything.  She can do whatever she wants and TIM can't do a damn thing about it except try to kill her.  Hell, he will probably try to kill all of us if we stole his ship.

Then again, he knows the Reapers are coming... hmm.  We'll see!

[Jeremy Winston]

Pauravi wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Even Miranda's "resignation" may just be talk... TIM may not accept the resignation.

What does that even mean?  So what if he didn't accept her resignation?
Is she gonna just say, "aww... okay, you win"?  Miranda doesn't have a control chip implanted in her or anything.  She can do whatever she wants and TIM can't do a damn thing about it except try to kill her.  Hell, he will probably try to kill all of us if we stole his ship.

Then again, he knows the Reapers are coming... hmm.  We'll see!

Sorry.. I did gloss over that.

What I meant was that, Miranda's intent may have been, "I'm not keeping this base.  If you don't like it, I'm happy to quit over this issue."  I know she said that it can be considered her resignation, but people say things in stressful situations, and this is definitely a stressful situation.

If TIM doesn't force her to stand by her words, she may reconsider leaving Cerberus.  At least, this is how it works at normal, mundane jobs, especially when you're a valued employee.

Modifié par Jeremy Winston, 26 février 2010 - 10:48 .

[Poison_Berrie]

I never really got a good fix on Cerberus and the Alliance.

The first Mass Effect seems to put them as a part of the Alliance that has gone rogue.

The second game and apparently ME:Ascension make it out that they existed as a rogue organization before hand and never were part of the Alliance.



Also the Alliance (at least now) isn't directly funding them. But there are powerful people with connections who do.

[MsKlaussen]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Eshaye wrote...
You get that from where? Because in the game itself it says this: Cerberus is the codename for a black ops organization that was formerly part of the Alliance military, but which has now gone rogue.

... officially. Because some alien-loving appeasers in the Alliance Parliament (being probably on STG payroll) became vocal about it. Doesn't mean all Alliance honchos think so. Maybe Udina is Cerberus undercover operative!

This may sound stupid, but I'm starting to think Udina is the Shadow Broker. He has lying eyes, and they dart around a lot. And everyone knows what it means when you have eyes like that in real life...

It means you're the Shadow Broker

[BlackenBlue]

Udina spends too much time kissing Council butt to be the Shadow Broker or a Cerberus undercover operative.



Chorban and the bartender in the bar where you mean Nessana Dantius are more likely than Udina to be the Shadow Broker and the only human I'd say is less likely to be a Cerberus agent than Udina is Conrad Verner!



...



Hey! Maybe Conrad is the Shadow Broker!!!!

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
It's the only "N7" mission, that triggers without scanning a random planet. So, possibly, yes, they made it this way intentionally, and the choice will affect ME3.

Nope, there's the one Aria gives you for finding a datapad during the Archangel mission and the crashing ship that appears once you buy a star map at Baria Frontiers.  A couple others appear when you complete a "scan random planet" mission and find some data terminal or the like.

[Cutlass Jack]

My Paragon shep absolutely quit Cerberus, and all dialogue with the crew afterwards confirms that. Not too much TIM can really do about Shepard running off with the Normandy anyway. EDI is unshackled and on your side. Tali and Mordin were already disabling various surveillance items. And I'm sure Miranda would help in that regard as well since she tendered her resignation.



Sure TIM might try to do something stupid, but I do have that Cerberus Database to leverage on him.

[Zulmoka531]

Personally? I'm glad ME2 let us "unofficially" out of the Alliance, and then technically we can screw Cerberus as well. I'd much rather work freely that having a larger organization looming over my every move.

Everything comes down to politics with the big groups in ME2, Cerberus isn't even free of such things. If my Shep can go his own way, all the better. It's not like he's incapable of making massive amounts of allies.

Also, I don't believe TIM would screw over the biggest shot he has at taking out the Reapers (even though his long term goals may be Human/Cerberus dominance) by attempting to kill Shepard. He already lost his investment , no sense shooting yourself in an already wounded foot.

Modifié par Zulmoka531, 27 février 2010 - 09:16 .

[RayneMoon]

To be honest it's not really clear, but you do kind of say f**k you TIM if your paragon and renegade. In a way I think Miranda realizes that TIM is really crazy so I think that's why she's leaving.

[Amethyst Deceiver]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

I've been watching a lot of "ending" videos... some renegade, some paragon, some mixed.

In all cases (even pure renegade, with the base saved) Shepard still can tell TIM to get ouf of his way.  "I'm going to stop the Reapers  If you can keep up, fine."  Or something to that.

So, in all endings, Shepard is sort of alienated from Cerberus.  But, does he ever actually break off the relationship?  TIM may be upset with him.  They have disagreements, but they still need each other.  Even Miranda's "resignation" may just be talk... TIM may not accept the resignation.

Shepard does say (in the pure Paragon ending) that he's now doing things HIS way and is not following TIM's lead.  That doesn't necessarily mean he's breaking up the relationship, but simple redefining it.

At the end, regardless of the ending (assuming Shepard lives), he's still in a Cerberus owned ship with, theoretically, a Cerberus controlled AI which will still have Cerberus controlled programming.  While it's possible that removing the blocks truly allows EDI to be her own person, I kind of doubt it.

Also, any missions you do post collector base still earn Cerberus funding, and email from Cerberus command are the same as always.  This could be an oversight, but considering that the game intends to railroad you to the ending after the IFF mission, it would seem odd that they would not take into consideration your possible break from Cerberus before doing those missions.

Thoughts?

i have a feeling that doing the n7 missions post-endgame are "non-canon" in the timeline. the game was written as if endgame was the last thing, but decided to allow you to continue past it just for our satisfaction

im already convinced that the canon carried into ME3 involves a split from cerberus. your choice of keeping the base or destroying it will play as little a part as saving/killing the council.

Modifié par Amethyst Deceiver, 27 février 2010 - 09:30 .

[In Exile]

I think the interesting thing, from a meta-game sense, is the star behind TIM. Throughout the game, it's blue-red. Depending on the ending, it's either fully blue or fully red. When your read the profile about TIM, it says that he represents the best and worst of humanity. I think that the star, and TIM as an extent, represents the sort of moral dillema that humanity is facing in trying to stop the reapers\\\\

I think that in the end, TIM is going to be a major player in defeating the reapers. Honestly, I think he's being set up to be a leader for humanity following the reapers no matter what happens. But just like with what humanity is changes depending on what Shepard does in ME1 - ruthless, deliberate and mission focused, or selfless, heroic and charismatic - I think that TIM will change as a character in ME3.

[quote]im already convinced that the canon carried into ME3 involves a
split from cerberus. your choice of keeping the base or destroying it
will play as little a part as saving/killing the council.[/quote[

Keep in mind though, this actually plays a huge role. They didn''t do too much with it gameplay wise (probably 'cause of how much resources it would eat it up to have so many contingencies) but potentially saving the Council changes everything about humanity. With the Council dead, there's talk of "former" Council races. The turians outright hate us. The asari are marginalized. Turians are gearing up for war. They're openly bigotred against the humans and there are race riots going on. If you save the Council, the opposite happens. Humans are seen as heroes. The turians respect us like comrades in arms. They're moving to pay reparations in full for the first contact war.

Saving the Council or not has a significant effect on the galaxy.

Modifié par In Exile, 27 février 2010 - 03:59 .