449 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryy_Miller]

massive_effect wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
-DA

Yeah, but...you will eventually die. What then?

They'll die. Simple as that.

[tripehound1]

massive_effect wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

Out of interest, do you believe in the Genesis creation story or Evolution (God driven or otherwise)?

I believe that the Bible is the word of God. So, I do believe in the creation story.

Genesis is not a scientific document. I believe that it's ok ask scientific questions regarding the origin of man. But, I don't believe in Evolution. The main reason is that Evolution says that men are animals.

whereas it's obvous that we are, in fact a form of plant life!

also what do the people who claim  Atheism is a faith think that it's faith IN? seriously?

It IS a belief but it is the opposite of faith, it is the lack of faith in god/s

[addiction21]

massive_effect wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
-DA

Yeah, but...you will eventually die. What then?

I do not know. I do not presume to know and I do not care either way. I try to live a good life and treat others as I myself would like to be treated. If that earns me eternal damnation so be it.

[newcomplex]

also



drools

We need to raise deviant waffle definition awareness. It needs to be a national holiday

"Deviant Waffle Acceptance Day"

Modifié par newcomplex, 01 mars 2010 - 02:53 .

[PyroFreak301]

I'm just gonna leave this here for a moment.

[ImperialOperative]

addiction21 wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
-DA

Yeah, but...you will eventually die. What then?

I do not know. I do not presume to know and I do not care either way. I try to live a good life and treat others as I myself would like to be treated. If that earns me eternal damnation so be it.

You will be damned to a place where the waffles will be in milions, and the smell will overwhelm you, but you no syrup to eat them.

Modifié par ImperialOperative, 01 mars 2010 - 02:54 .

[RighteousRage]

massive_effect wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
-DA

Yeah, but...you will eventually die. What then?

Belit shuddered. "Life, bad as it is, is better than such a
destiny. What do you believe, Conan?"

He shrugged his shoulders. "I have known many gods. He who denies
them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond
death. It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or
Crom's realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls
of the Nordheimer's Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. Let me live
deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and
stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad
exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am
content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over
questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion,
then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real
to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content."

"But the gods are real," she said, pursuing her own line of
thought. "And above all are the gods of the Shemites--Ishtar and
Ashtoreth and Derketo and Adonis. Bel, too, is Shemitish, for he was
born in ancient Shumir, long, long ago and went forth laughing, with
curled beard and impish wise eyes, to steal the gems of the kings of
old times."

"There is life beyond death, I know, and I know this, too, Conan
of Cimmeria--" she rose lithely to her knees and caught him in a
pantherish embrace--"my love is stronger than any death! I have lain
in your arms, panting with the violence of our love; you have held
and crushed and conquered me, drawing my soul to your lips with the
fierceness of your bruising kisses. My heart is welded to your heart,
my soul is part of your soul! Were I still in death and you fighting
for life, I would come back from the abyss to aid you--aye, whether
my spirit floated with the purple sails on the crystal sea of
paradise, or writhed in the molten flames of hell! I am yours, and
all the gods and all their eternities shall not sever us!"

[addiction21]

ImperialOperative wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
-DA

Yeah, but...you will eventually die. What then?

I do not know. I do not presume to know and I do not care either way. I try to live a good life and treat others as I myself would like to be treated. If that earns me eternal damnation so be it.

You will be damned to a place where the waffles will be in milions, and the smell will overwhelm you, but you have no mouth to eat them.

What about my ears or nose? They both go to my tummy also

[Collider]

[quote]newcomplex wrote...
Simply put, in order to be alive, you must value something.    Not nessicarily something spiritual, it could be sex or drugs or something.     In order to explicate an explanation for this value, it cannot be done scientifically, logically, mathematically, or rationally.   If it could,we would have the meaning of life.    Until we do, every single person on the face of the planet believes in a supernatural element that science cannot explain.   Not only that, but it must be universal.   A supernatural element that is unprovable and universal is a diety.    To believe in it requires Faith.  That process is forms a religion.    [/quote]
[/quote]

That is just incorrect. The example you used, sex, is clearly explained by biology. Sex is valued for reasons such as being necessary for the biological imperative of reproduction as well as being pleasurable. Drugs are pleasurable as well. Being alive does not require value in anything, you can be a vegetable for instance, and not consciously valuing anything whatsoever. I am valuing this conversation because it is intellectually stimulating. It does not an ounce of belief in any supernatural. Religion does not require a belief in supreme beings.

Dictionary.com:

a set of beliefs
concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when
considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually
involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a
moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Notice that while it emphasizes supernatural agents or agencies, it does not say it requires them. An atheist can be a buddhist because some interpretations of buddhism do not have any supernatural agencies or agents whatsoever.

[ImperialOperative]

addiction21 wrote...

What about my ears or nose? They both go to my tummy also

I changed it to "no syrup" which I imagine to be a million times worse.

[EternalWolfe]

vhatever wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

Ryzaki:

The definitions are all bull anyway. They're very Western-centric. For instance, the more fundamentalist Buddhists only believe in Nirvana, reincarnation, and the faith that Buddha laid down a path to Nirvana before them. They don't think of Buddha as a god, but simply the first person who found the way to enlightenment. By your given definition of Atheists, that would make them so.

Bear in mind, I am NOT making up any definitions. I'm simply using the ones YOU are providing.

Then they don't believe in god. I'd say there were atheists and just choose not to label themselves as such. There's nothing inherantly wrong with that.

You are aware that being atheist =/= not believing in anything spiritual

Right? 

Spiritual realm is inherently super natural. Like usual, you show you don't know wtf you are talking about and you should go back to the gaystapo to mew about something equally vapid and idiotic.

No, buddhists can't be atheist. They believe, depending on denomination, at a minimum,  asupernatural spirit world, and at a maximum, Buddah is regarded as supernatural God.

Atheism only the belief that there is no god or gods.  It doesn't go against the possiblity of supernatural in and of itself - only the single point of the existence of god(s).  So, if a Buddahist believes Buddah to be a god, then they are a theist, if they don't believe in the existence of a god, they are an atheist.

All of course are absolute labels - which humans rarely conform to perfectly.

[Bryy_Miller]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

I'm just gonna leave this here for a moment.

I don't know if you're still serious or if you gave up and decided to troll.

[massive_effect]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

Out of interest, do you believe in the Genesis creation story or Evolution (God driven or otherwise)?

I believe that the Bible is the word of God. So, I do believe in the creation story.

Genesis is not a scientific document. I believe that it's ok ask scientific questions regarding the origin of man. But, I don't believe in Evolution. The main reason is that Evolution says that men are animals.

Go search YouTube for some video's of some Chimpanzees, then come back and tell me that you see no similarities.

There was a video I cant find now of a primate (can't remember the species) teaching it's child how to use sticks as a tool to farm for ants. That's impressive enough in itself... but the mother actually takes a stick from the child which is unsuitable for getting ants and actually hands him one better suited for the task. I know it doesn't sound like much, but the cognitive function that basically says "That stick is too think, here, use this one instead" is unbelievable when you think about it.

Animals don't have souls. A soul is made of the Intellect and Will. No animal has ever demonstrated an intellect or excercise of a free will. No animal has ever communicated with a language of any kind. (Not even dolphins or whales.)

[newcomplex]

Collider wrote...

That is just incorrect. The example you used, sex, is clearly explained by biology. Sex is valued for reasons such as being necessary for the biological imperative of reproduction as well as being pleasurable. Drugs are pleasurable as well. Being alive does not require value in anything, you can be a vegetable for instance, and not consciously valuing anything whatsoever. I am valuing this conversation because it is intellectually stimulating. It does not an ounce of belief in any supernatural. Religion does not require a belief in supreme beings.

Dictionary.com:

a set of beliefs
concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when
considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually
involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a
moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Notice that while it emphasizes supernatural agents or agencies, it does not say it requires them. An atheist can be a buddhist because some interpretations of buddhism do not have any supernatural agencies or agents whatsoever.

Ok, sorry, by alive, i mean "consciously alive and willing to live"

Going forward, explain to me why the hell do you value pleasure?   Why is reproducing important ?   Find me a universal constant that values reproduction.   Pleasure is even more absurd.   Why is a couple neurons and seratonin flaring around in your skull important?  

Their is no possible way you can explicate it without making a religion.    

Modifié par newcomplex, 01 mars 2010 - 02:59 .

[RighteousRage]

I can't believe people are still seriously discussing religion

[PyroFreak301]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

I'm just gonna leave this here for a moment.

I don't know if you're still serious or if you gave up and decided to troll.

Just trying to casually insert a food for thought video. No trolling intended :innocent:

[newcomplex]

I like that video.

Not as much as waffles...but still!

Modifié par newcomplex, 01 mars 2010 - 03:01 .

[Ryzaki]

Ah religious debates. Going nowhere for 2000 years. *

[Bryy_Miller]

massive_effect wrote...

No animal has ever demonstrated an intellect or excercise of a free will. No animal has ever communicated with a language of any kind. (Not even dolphins or whales.)

What rock have you been living under? Do you own pets? Have you ever gone to the Zoo? SeaWorld? Have you ever seen an animal before in your life? Have you never seen a nature documentary? Because it doesn't take a whole lot to witness animal intelligence. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

Maviarab wrote...

Finds it really interesting that non of the religious people here botheredd to try and answer y post...wonder why?

Also, lol'd hard that its the 'religious' folk getting all upset and throwing remarks about, where as the agnostivs and athiests are remaining quite calm...

Now doesnt that just tell you a whole lot?

LOL what topic are you reading? Seems things were going smoothly before some atheist came in here within five posts and did the usual "i am smart because i no believe in god, u r dum"

I am simply throwing fuel on this fire in the hopes that this topic will get locked faster.

[massive_effect]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

I'm just gonna leave this here for a moment.

I don't know if you're still serious or if you gave up and decided to troll.

He's serious. He thinks you and me are monkey's. He thinks he himself is a monkey.

The video reveals the truth, however. Despite being a pro-evolution video, it says that man is unhappy. Man is the only unhappy creature. I can tell you why...

Because God left Man after we sinned. Animals can't sin. Only man. We are unhappy now because we get sick and die. Man is aware and animals are not.

[newcomplex]

massive_effect wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

Out of interest, do you believe in the Genesis creation story or Evolution (God driven or otherwise)?

I believe that the Bible is the word of God. So, I do believe in the creation story.

Genesis is not a scientific document. I believe that it's ok ask scientific questions regarding the origin of man. But, I don't believe in Evolution. The main reason is that Evolution says that men are animals.

Go search YouTube for some video's of some Chimpanzees, then come back and tell me that you see no similarities.

There was a video I cant find now of a primate (can't remember the species) teaching it's child how to use sticks as a tool to farm for ants. That's impressive enough in itself... but the mother actually takes a stick from the child which is unsuitable for getting ants and actually hands him one better suited for the task. I know it doesn't sound like much, but the cognitive function that basically says "That stick is too think, here, use this one instead" is unbelievable when you think about it.

Animals don't have souls. A soul is made of the Intellect and Will. No animal has ever demonstrated an intellect or excercise of a free will. No animal has ever communicated with a language of any kind. (Not even dolphins or whales.)

Uh.............UhhhhuUHHhuhuHUhUhuH.


Please, explain to me.   Or better else, explain to yourself the correlation between 'will" and "intellect" and "soul".    

[Collider]

newcomplex wrote...
Going forward, explain to me why the hell do you value pleasure?

Pleasure feels good. 

Why is reproducing important ?

You could say that reproduction is an extension of your own life. You have a child and look into their face, they are your own blood, your own genes. Reproduction allows for not only the survival of your own genes, which can be said to "want" to survive, as well as the survival of your species, which often elicit the most empathy from you. Personally, it does not seem to matter why reproduction is important independent of biology - simply put, it is programmed within most of us to be important, which is partly the reason why organisms reproduce, because it is wired within us.

Find me a universal constant that values reproduction.

First of all, explain to me what you consider to be a universal constant.

Pleasure is even more absurd.   Why is a couple neurons and seratonin flaring around in your skull important?  

Having value does not mean something is important. I can see value in an extra minute to sleep before work, but that doesn't mean I consider that single minute to be important. Why is pleasure valued? Because our body likes it. Pleasure is often tied to our biological necessities. Pleasure can be gained from food, which is something we need to survive. Pleasure can be gained through sex, which is what we and our species need to reproduce and survive. Pleasure can be gained through physical and intellectual stimuli, which can alter our physical and intellectual abilities. Animals playfighting with eachother is not just having fun - it is also training and experimenting without the risk of a genuinely dangerous situation. A tiger cub can wrestle with it's brother, and when it comes time to fight over a mate, it has all that experience and confidence to go by.

Modifié par Collider, 01 mars 2010 - 03:06 .

[Bryy_Miller]

massive_effect wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

I'm just gonna leave this here for a moment.

I don't know if you're still serious or if you gave up and decided to troll.

He's serious. He thinks you and me are monkey's. He thinks he himself is a monkey.

No, no, no. That's not what the video is saying at all. If anything, that video is a trolling video. Evolution does not state we are monkeys.

[Collider]

A gorilla communicating with sign LANGUAGE: