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[massive_effect]

addiction21 wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
-DA

Yeah, but...you will eventually die. What then?

I do not know. I do not presume to know and I do not care either way. I try to live a good life and treat others as I myself would like to be treated. If that earns me eternal damnation so be it.

That is the Golden Rule. If you live like that, you will be in heaven.

[Collider]

A note about humankind suffering because of sin and animals not suffering. Animals eat and kill each other all the time. If God was truly omnipotent, he could only create ecosystems across earth where animals do not eat and kill each other. Instead? Fluffy rabbits getting eaten by wolves.

[tripehound1]

If animals weren't able to communicate blind people would get run over A LOT and my cat would be hungry most of the time...

[Bryy_Miller]

Ryzaki wrote...
or he's a massive dick. 

http://weird-geometry.com/cast/

Scroll down until you see it.

[PyroFreak301]

Ryzaki wrote...

Collider wrote...

God punishing man after
a) Knowing in advance that the way he would create humankind would make them betray him.
Creating them anyway despite knowing in advance that they would betray him
c) Punishing them after knowing that they would betray him

Makes perfect sense! I get angry when everything works to plan all the time.

So either God doesn't know everything in which case the people who said he was are liars, or he's a massive dick.

....Yay!

"I don't know if God exists, but it would be better for His reputation if He didn't."

This quote seemed appropriate.

[Ryzaki]

Actually I like religion ( I know the irony) its organized religion that gets me irritated. People can believe whatever they want, but when a group of them get together and decide that they're the only ones right and everyone else should be like them or else is when my eyebrow starts twitching.

[Ryzaki]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
or he's a massive dick. 

http://weird-geometry.com/cast/

Scroll down until you see it.

LOL

[Inquisitor Recon]

Collider wrote...

God punishing man after
a) Knowing in advance that the way he would create humankind would make them betray him.
Creating them anyway despite knowing in advance that they would betray him
c) Punishing them after knowing that they would betray him

Makes perfect sense! I get angry when everything works to plan all the time.

Why do people like yourselves who clearly aren't Biblical scholors feel the need to post the same old BS from some atheist website here? Do you think your going to convert people? Do you think your going to prove your somehow superior? You athiests are so obessed with running around trying to "prove" there is no God as if consensus would make it so.

If only we could dump all you atheists onto some desert island with the jihadists, scientologists, and a few other crazies. It would make everything so less annoying.

[massive_effect]

RighteousRage wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
-DA

Yeah, but...you will eventually die. What then?

Belit shuddered. "Life, bad as it is, is better than such a
destiny. What do you believe, Conan?"

He shrugged his shoulders. "I have known many gods. He who denies
them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond
death. It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or
Crom's realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls
of the Nordheimer's Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. Let me live
deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and
stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad
exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am
content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over
questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion,
then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real
to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content."

"But the gods are real," she said, pursuing her own line of
thought. "And above all are the gods of the Shemites--Ishtar and
Ashtoreth and Derketo and Adonis. Bel, too, is Shemitish, for he was
born in ancient Shumir, long, long ago and went forth laughing, with
curled beard and impish wise eyes, to steal the gems of the kings of
old times."

"There is life beyond death, I know, and I know this, too, Conan
of Cimmeria--" she rose lithely to her knees and caught him in a
pantherish embrace--"my love is stronger than any death! I have lain
in your arms, panting with the violence of our love; you have held
and crushed and conquered me, drawing my soul to your lips with the
fierceness of your bruising kisses. My heart is welded to your heart,
my soul is part of your soul! Were I still in death and you fighting
for life, I would come back from the abyss to aid you--aye, whether
my spirit floated with the purple sails on the crystal sea of
paradise, or writhed in the molten flames of hell! I am yours, and
all the gods and all their eternities shall not sever us!"

It says in the Bible, if either the husband or wife believe, then both are saved. So, Conan won't have to work so hard to come back from the abyss.

[newcomplex]

Ryzaki wrote...

Actually I like religion ( I know the irony) its organized religion that gets me irritated. People can believe whatever they want, but when a group of them get together and decide that they're the only ones right and everyone else should be like them or else is when my eyebrow starts twitching.

I like religion too.    I used to attend church with my Girlfriend for a while.    I thoroughly enjoyed it for a variety of reasons.   The atmosphere, the community were all important, but a huge contributing factor was also that they gave out chinese food meal deals at 1$ a plate.   They even sold chinese waffles at a quarter a pop.

Modifié par newcomplex, 01 mars 2010 - 03:33 .

[RighteousRage]

You sort of remind me of these two friends I had in high school, massive_effect. They would fervently defend their belief in the Christian God and make up evidence that he exists, or posit that things like the Dead Sea Scrolls mean anything. They're 22 now and one works as a courtesy clerk and the other is unemployed and halfway through community college. The former confessed a foot fetish he had to me and the latter confessed a porn addiction, both in a very awkward tone. It was funny as ****. They're like Ned Flanders' kids. That's what you remind me of.

[RighteousRage]

Also Conan wasn't married to Belit, he just banged her a few times and killed some Picts, is that the same thing in God's eyes?

[massive_effect]

addiction21 wrote...

We can not be monkeys. Monkeys do not have waffles. See my infailable logic?

This logic is infallible. I'm not kidding.

[PyroFreak301]

Ryzaki wrote...

Actually I like religion ( I know the irony) its organized religion that gets me irritated. People can believe whatever they want, but when a group of them get together and decide that they're the only ones right and everyone else should be like them or else is when my eyebrow starts twitching.

I like the fact that some people can find comfort in their God, up until the point where the God they've been brough up promotes ignorance, be it scientific or moral. Establishments like the Cathlolic Church honestly make me sick... refusing to allow condoms in places where HIV is pretty much a pandemic. They have so much potential to do good in the world yet they refuse based on outdated beliefs they're too stubborn to change. The result? People die in the thousands. I don't trust any religion that needs it's own country.

[Ryzaki]

newcomplex wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Actually I like religion ( I know the irony) its organized religion that gets me irritated. People can believe whatever they want, but when a group of them get together and decide that they're the only ones right and everyone else should be like them or else is when my eyebrow starts twitching.

I like religion too.    I used to attend church with my Girlfriend for a while.    I thoroughly enjoyed it for a variety of reasons.   Some thoughtful, though an important factor was also that they gave out chinese food meal deals at 1$ a plate.   They even sold chinese waffles at a quarter a pop.

Oi. There was this nice old lady who was very religious that I knew but unlike most of the ****s in my church she didn't judge. She was the "God forgives and loves everyone regardless of what they've done and who they are." she didn't say "Oh you're going to hell for doing X!" She was pretty much a "If you are kind and forgiving that's pretty much what God would want." she had her own version of the religion that was comforting. Of course those ****s at the church insulted her and belittled her until she eventually left. Bloody self-righteous pricks.

[Collider]

newcomplex wrote...
Good is your consciousness's construction of chemicals and electrical pulses.

No problem with that.

Why is that important? Why is it meaningful?

Pleasure is often the result of processes that further biological goals, such as survival and reproduction.

Having fun with sports may result in more muscle mass and the removal of excess weight, which can add in survival (less so in the modern world) and becoming more attractive to sexual partners.
Having fun with academic activities may result in greater knowledge, which can add to survival and success, and may make you more attractive to potential partners.

Food can be pleasurable in their taste. Food is required for survival.
Sex can be pleasurable, sex is required for reproduction.

This is all hardwired into us. Our experiences contribute to it a lot, what constitutes as pleasant sounding and what doesn't. A child who puts his hand on a hot stove will learn that putting your hand on a hot stove isn't a fun experience. What constitutes as important and meaningful is largely subjective, you may as well be asking me why my favorite color is blue.

Why is extending ones life important?

The answer to that question is subjective.

If you are doing solely because it is programmed into you, why are you adhereing to it?

Do you think that information is available to me? Do you think that I know the reason for everything my body does? No.

You clearly have the "choice".   You can knife yourself at any time.

Never said we don't have choices.

But what makes one action more important then the other?   Why is liveing more important the ceasing?

It's subjective. But here's a bit of an answer. The simple fact that you are living is affecting matter around you. You are consuming oxygen. You are consuming food. You are producing waste. You will be food for worms eventually. That is why survival may be "important." But again, it's subjective. But that doesn't mean that there needs to be anything supernatural involved with it whatsoever. I don't understand why thunder happens exactly, but I can recognize that it is a part of nature.

[massive_effect]

RighteousRage wrote...

Also Conan wasn't married to Belit, he just banged her a few times and killed some Picts, is that the same thing in God's eyes?

If he actually believes that Belit is more important than God, he's going to hell.

[tripehound1]

ReconTeam wrote...

Collider wrote...

God punishing man after
a) Knowing in advance that the way he would create humankind would make them betray him.
Creating them anyway despite knowing in advance that they would betray him
c) Punishing them after knowing that they would betray him

Makes perfect sense! I get angry when everything works to plan all the time.

Why do people like yourselves who clearly aren't Biblical scholors feel the need to post the same old BS from some atheist website here? Do you think your going to convert people? Do you think your going to prove your somehow superior? You athiests are so obessed with running around trying to "prove" there is no God as if consensus would make it so.

If only we could dump all you atheists onto some desert island with the jihadists, scientologists, and a few other crazies. It would make everything so less annoying.

Because we have just as much right to express our opinions as you or anyone else, be they correct or not and "generally" try to do so without making threats of exhile to an inhospittable environment just because someone makes a valid point to which we have no counter-point?

[newcomplex]

ReconTeam wrote...

Collider wrote...

God punishing man after
a) Knowing in advance that the way he would create humankind would make them betray him.
Creating them anyway despite knowing in advance that they would betray him
c) Punishing them after knowing that they would betray him

Makes perfect sense! I get angry when everything works to plan all the time.

If only we could dump all you atheists onto some desert island with the jihadists, scientologists, and a few other crazies. It would make everything so less annoying.

I would support that.   Not because I harbor a grudge against overzealous Atheists, I'm perfectly fine with them.    Simply because that island would be the most cruel and utterly hilarious thing one could possible concieve.    It would be pure amazing awesomeness to such a magnitude that it would begin warping the fabric of reality.    

[Ryzaki]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Actually I like religion ( I know the irony) its organized religion that gets me irritated. People can believe whatever they want, but when a group of them get together and decide that they're the only ones right and everyone else should be like them or else is when my eyebrow starts twitching.

I like the fact that some people can find comfort in their God, up until the point where the God they've been brough up promotes ignorance, be it scientific or moral. Establishments like the Cathlolic Church honestly make me sick... refusing to allow condoms in places where HIV is pretty much a pandemic. They have so much potential to do good in the world yet they refuse based on outdated beliefs they're too stubborn to change. The result? People die in the thousands. I don't trust any religion that needs it's own country.

That's what I meant with the imposing their views on others. And yeah that's organized religion. (NM the fact that they aren't even following the religion completely anyways. Just cherry picking what bits that suit them, which is fine with individuals but when its a group trying to impose their views on others its retarded and hypocritical).

Aye. Honestly people should be encouraged to follow their own belief system instead of conforming to the norm like a herd of cattle.

[GnusmasTHX]

ReconTeam wrote...

Collider wrote...

God punishing man after
a) Knowing in advance that the way he would create humankind would make them betray him.
Creating them anyway despite knowing in advance that they would betray him
c) Punishing them after knowing that they would betray him

Makes perfect sense! I get angry when everything works to plan all the time.

Why do people like yourselves who clearly aren't Biblical scholors feel the need to post the same old BS from some atheist website here? Do you think your going to convert people? Do you think your going to prove your somehow superior? You athiests are so obessed with running around trying to "prove" there is no God as if consensus would make it so.

If only we could dump all you atheists onto some desert island with the jihadists, scientologists, and a few other crazies. It would make everything so less annoying.

Because your post was so much better.

It's a legitimate point.

[Collider]

ReconTeam wrote...
Why do people like yourselves who clearly aren't Biblical scholors feel the need to post the same old BS from some atheist website here?

I'm not using an atheist website, I'm using my own opinions.

Do you think your going to convert people?

No. If people think about their beliefs as a result of what I say, that's great, but I'm not seeking to make any new atheists. Why would I care? It's not like I believe there's any reward after death for being an atheist.

Do you think your going to prove your somehow superior?

Nope. I haven't said a single negative or condescending word about theists or the religious. I have no intention whatsoever to prove that god doesn't exist or that I'm superior.

You athiests are so obessed with running around trying to "prove" there is no God as if consensus would make it so.

I'm not obsessed. I'm not trying to prove that god doesn't exist. I KNOW that consensus doesn't mean jack. Most people are actually not Christians. Most people are not muslims. Most people are not jews. Most people are not atheists.

If only we could dump all you atheists onto some desert island with the jihadists, scientologists, and a few other crazies. It would make everything so less annoying.

How compassionate of you.

Modifié par Collider, 01 mars 2010 - 03:39 .

[massive_effect]

RighteousRage wrote...

You sort of remind me of these two friends I had in high school, massive_effect. They would fervently defend their belief in the Christian God and make up evidence that he exists, or posit that things like the Dead Sea Scrolls mean anything. They're 22 now and one works as a courtesy clerk and the other is unemployed and halfway through community college. The former confessed a foot fetish he had to me and the latter confessed a porn addiction, both in a very awkward tone. It was funny as ****. They're like Ned Flanders' kids. That's what you remind me of.

The devil attacks those that try to get close to God. No man is perfect, except for Christ.

[Ryzaki]

I'm seeing some circular reasoning in this thread.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 mars 2010 - 03:42 .

[newcomplex]

Collider wrote...

newcomplex wrote...
Good is your consciousness's construction of chemicals and electrical pulses.

No problem with that.

Why is that important? Why is it meaningful?

Pleasure is often the result of processes that further biological goals, such as survival and reproduction.

Having fun with sports may result in more muscle mass and the removal of excess weight, which can add in survival (less so in the modern world) and becoming more attractive to sexual partners.
Having fun with academic activities may result in greater knowledge, which can add to survival and success, and may make you more attractive to potential partners.

Food can be pleasurable in their taste. Food is required for survival.
Sex can be pleasurable, sex is required for reproduction.

This is all hardwired into us. Our experiences contribute to it a lot, what constitutes as pleasant sounding and what doesn't. A child who puts his hand on a hot stove will learn that putting your hand on a hot stove isn't a fun experience. What constitutes as important and meaningful is largely subjective, you may as well be asking me why my favorite color is blue.

Why is extending ones life important?

The answer to that question is subjective.

If you are doing solely because it is programmed into you, why are you adhereing to it?

Do you think that information is available to me? Do you think that I know the reason for everything my body does? No.

You clearly have the "choice".   You can knife yourself at any time.

Never said we don't have choices.

But what makes one action more important then the other?   Why is liveing more important the ceasing?

It's subjective. But here's a bit of an answer. The simple fact that you are living is affecting matter around you. You are consuming oxygen. You are consuming food. You are producing waste. You will be food for worms eventually. That is why survival may be "important." But again, it's subjective. But that doesn't mean that there needs to be anything supernatural involved with it whatsoever. I don't understand why thunder happens exactly, but I can recognize that it is a part of nature.

Fallacy.   Cosmically, living and dieing will produce completely equal consequences.    Energy will be distributed evenly towards entropy no matter what you do.   If you live, no extra energy is produced, if you die, no less energy will exist.    No less movement.   Nothing.    Hell, even ignoring cosmological jujistsu, a person commiting suicide will have as much of an impact on his community and his acquantainces as if he lived a good life.    A person having a child will effect the world as much as not having one.   Imagine if hilters mom commited suicide.   We might be living under the Soviet flag right now, who knows.    

Modifié par newcomplex, 01 mars 2010 - 03:46 .