449 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

...wait you bought and played ME2 and are wondering if pleasure (or entertainment) has some deeper long reaching meaning?



...What the hell? Why exactly did you play and beat ME2?

[Bryy_Miller]

massive_effect wrote...

RighteousRage wrote...

Also Conan wasn't married to Belit, he just banged her a few times and killed some Picts, is that the same thing in God's eyes?

If he actually believes that Belit is more important than God, he's going to hell.

Conan's fictional. Are you actually implying that real life religious dogma applies to fictional characters?

[Collider]

newcomplex wrote...
Fallacy.

I doubt that.

Cosmically, living and dieing will produce completely equal consequences.

I never said they didn't.

If you live, no extra energy is produced, if you die, no less energy will exist.

I never said that matter is being created or destroyed o_O

So what are you really trying to say here?

Modifié par Collider, 01 mars 2010 - 03:46 .

[Bryy_Miller]

ReconTeam wrote...

Collider wrote...

God punishing man after
a) Knowing in advance that the way he would create humankind would make them betray him.
Creating them anyway despite knowing in advance that they would betray him
c) Punishing them after knowing that they would betray him

Makes perfect sense! I get angry when everything works to plan all the time.

Why do people like yourselves who clearly aren't Biblical scholors feel the need to post the same old BS from some atheist website here? Do you think your going to convert people? Do you think your going to prove your somehow superior? You athiests are so obessed with running around trying to "prove" there is no God as if consensus would make it so.

Right back at 'ya.

[newcomplex]

[quote]Collider wrote...

[quote]newcomplex wrote...
Fallacy.[/quote]
I doubt that.

[quote]Cosmically, living and dieing will produce completely equal consequences.[/quote]
I never said they didn't.
If you live, no extra energy is produced, if you die, no less energy will exist.[/quote]
I never said that matter is being created or destroyed o_O

So what are you really trying to say here?

[/quote]



You've simply explained that these are hardwired response.   So
what?   Are you conceding that we have something resembling will?   Not
truely 100% free, the universe is deterministic, but a certain degree of
will none the less.    Are you saying we have to follow these codes
hardwired into us?   You've proven that they exists, that wasn't a point
of contention.   What is is that why they matter.    You've failed to
produce the slightest shred of reason on why you blindly follow them,
yet you clearly do without frequent thoughts of suicide (hopefully [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]).

Simply put, Faith.    Faith in the irrational.    That's  Supernaturalism.    That supernature elment must be universal, or it won't help explain the former.    Universal Supernaturalism is a diety.   Believing in dieties are religion.    

Modifié par newcomplex, 01 mars 2010 - 03:47 .

[ImperialOperative]

massive_effect wrote...

The devil attacks those that try to get close to God. No man is perfect, except for Christ.

Christ was God, uh oh...

You have been caught!

They see me trollin', they hatin, patrolling and tryin to catch me ridin dirty.

[newcomplex]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Collider wrote...

God punishing man after
a) Knowing in advance that the way he would create humankind would make them betray him.
Creating them anyway despite knowing in advance that they would betray him
c) Punishing them after knowing that they would betray him

Makes perfect sense! I get angry when everything works to plan all the time.

Why do people like yourselves who clearly aren't Biblical scholors feel the need to post the same old BS from some atheist website here? Do you think your going to convert people? Do you think your going to prove your somehow superior? You athiests are so obessed with running around trying to "prove" there is no God as if consensus would make it so.

Right back at 'ya.

but srsly bro...

who would win?

I want to say Atheists, but I might be too biased.   And those scientologiys are tricky bastards <_<

[Ryzaki]

ReconTeam wrote...

Collider wrote...

God punishing man after
a) Knowing in advance that the way he would create humankind would make them betray him.
Creating them anyway despite knowing in advance that they would betray him
c) Punishing them after knowing that they would betray him

Makes perfect sense! I get angry when everything works to plan all the time.

Why do people like yourselves who clearly aren't Biblical scholors feel the need to post the same old BS from some atheist website here? Do you think your going to convert people? Do you think your going to prove your somehow superior? You athiests are so obessed with running around trying to "prove" there is no God as if consensus would make it so.

Why do people like yourselves who clearly didn't read your own Bible completely feel the need to post the same old BS from some christian pastor's badly summarized speech here? Do you think you're going to convert people? Do you think you're going to prove your somehow superior? You christians are so obsesseed with running around trying to shove your "God" down people's throats as if you managing to scream at enough people would make it so your religion was validated.

And honestly silly debate is silly.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 mars 2010 - 03:51 .

[Bryy_Miller]

It's been fun, gentlemen, but you obviously all need to get laid. Night.

[haberman13]

atheism seems myopic to me, as an ideology it simply refuses to answer key questions by relying on arguments like the spaghetti monster. Sure, I can't prove a spaghetti monster doesn't exist, but I'm not proposing that the universe was created by a spaghetti monster... i.e. the universe is evidence of creation; where as a spaghetti monster would have no logical causal affect on that fact.

Things like red shift in the universe proving expansion, and the fact that there has NEVER been observation of a genome gaining data... which would be necessary for cross-special evolution.

Dawkins is a smart man, but google for "dawkins and aliens" or "dawkins and adding to the genome" and you will laugh as the atheist-messiah is truly stumped by the genome question, and suggests that humans were planted here by aliens because of the irrationality of human evolution coming from apes (even he doesn't believe it).

Also, Einstein was convinced there is a creator, though he denies the christian god he does explicitly state that the complexity of the universe and everything he understands about it suggests intelligence.

edit: my theory is that most of these new atheists on the internet are really just a rejection of organized religion; and since the main group of these new "atheists" are around 22 yrs old they are just being reactionary instead of thinking about it honestly.  IMO of course, if you are a true atheist more power to you.

Modifié par haberman13, 01 mars 2010 - 03:51 .

[GnusmasTHX]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

RighteousRage wrote...

Also Conan wasn't married to Belit, he just banged her a few times and killed some Picts, is that the same thing in God's eyes?

If he actually believes that Belit is more important than God, he's going to hell.

Conan's fictional. Are you actually implying that real life religious dogma applies to fictional characters?

In-fiction Conan also predates Abrahamic God...

He fell under the dominion of the 100x more awesome Crom.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 01 mars 2010 - 03:50 .

[ImperialOperative]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Conan also predates Abrahamic God...

He fell under the dominion of the 100x more awesome Crom.

Uh what? Conan was created in 1932

[massive_effect]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

RighteousRage wrote...

Also Conan wasn't married to Belit, he just banged her a few times and killed some Picts, is that the same thing in God's eyes?

If he actually believes that Belit is more important than God, he's going to hell.

Conan's fictional. Are you actually implying that real life religious dogma applies to fictional characters?

Of course not.

[atheelogos]

These conversations never end well. I hope this one does though, but I doubt it.

[GnusmasTHX]

ImperialOperative wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Conan also predates Abrahamic God...

He fell under the dominion of the 100x more awesome Crom.

Uh what? Conan was created in 1932

I made an edit.

In fiction, Conan predates the emergence of the worship of an Abrahamic God, by several thousand years.

Naturally you can't assess the value he puts on a faith that didn't exist during his lifetime.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 01 mars 2010 - 03:53 .

[newcomplex]

haberman13 wrote...

atheism seems myopic to me, as an ideology it simply refuses to answer key questions by relying on arguments like the spaghetti monster. Sure, I can't prove a spaghetti monster doesn't exist, but I'm not proposing that the universe was created by a spaghetti monster... i.e. the universe is evidence of creation; where as a spaghetti monster would have no logical causal affect on that fact.

Things like red shift in the universe proving expansion, and the fact that there has NEVER been observation of a genome gaining data... which would be necessary for cross-special evolution.

Dawkins is a smart man, but google for "dawkins and aliens" or "dawkins and adding to the genome" and you will laugh as the atheist-messiah is truly stumped by the genome question, and suggests that humans were planted here by aliens because of the irrationality of human evolution coming from apes (even he doesn't believe it).

Also, Einstein was convinced there is a creator, though he denies the christian god he does explicitly state that the complexity of the universe and everything he understands about it suggests intelligence.

The brief timespan we've sequenced genomes (40 years) combined with the incredible low volume of genomes sequenced make finding change at the level your describing means that if we did find signficant change, that would be so improbable that it would actually point towards a benevolent god who wants us to progress faster.

Also, Dawkins is retarded.   Don't disagree with you there.  

Modifié par newcomplex, 01 mars 2010 - 03:52 .

[ImperialOperative]

Ryzaki wrote...

Why do people like yourselves who clearly didn't read your own Bible completely feel the need to post the same old BS from some christian pastor's badly summarized speech here? Do you think you're going to convert people? Do you think you're going to prove your somehow superior? You christians are so obsesseed with running around trying to shove your "God" down people's throats as if you managing to scream at enough people would make it so your religion was validated.

And honestly silly debate is silly.

Islam and Buddhism are smaller combined than agnosticism or atheism?

wot lol

[Ryzaki]

ImperialOperative wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Why do people like yourselves who clearly didn't read your own Bible completely feel the need to post the same old BS from some christian pastor's badly summarized speech here? Do you think you're going to convert people? Do you think you're going to prove your somehow superior? You christians are so obsesseed with running around trying to shove your "God" down people's throats as if you managing to scream at enough people would make it so your religion was validated.

And honestly silly debate is silly.

Islam and Buddhism are smaller combined than agnosticism or atheism?

wot lol

*shrugs* I didn't make the chart. 

...Hm...now you have me wanting to find a more correct one.
Anyways the point was supposed to be that Christianity is one of the largest religions there and they constantly moan about be oppressed. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 mars 2010 - 03:54 .

[newcomplex]

Ryzaki wrote...

...wait you bought and played ME2 and are wondering if pleasure (or entertainment) has some deeper long reaching meaning?

...What the hell? Why exactly did you play and beat ME2?

I acknowledge that I must continue living an meaningless illusion because its fun.    Which is an incredibly arrogant and pretentious religion of worshipping my own happiness as the universal determinant.    And I'm kinda OK with that .

A lot of people say I'm nihilistic, I'm not.   Nihilists are the most retarded people on the planet.    I'm an Absurdist.   

(And by own happiness...its a pretty broad term.   I generally gain pleasure by helping people.   Generally)   

Modifié par newcomplex, 01 mars 2010 - 03:55 .

[Collider]

[quote]newcomplex wrote...
[/quote]


[/quote]
a) I have never said that we do or do not have free will.
No, I have never said nor intend to say that you have to follow what is wired within us.

[quote]You've failed to
produce the slightest shred of reason on why you blindly follow them,
yet you clearly do without frequent thoughts of suicide (hopefully [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]).[/quote]
That is just unfair. First of all, I neither think that I or anyone else blindly follows our wiring. Second of all, if you think you can gather "clearly" from typed responses from someone you don't even know from a forum about an RPG video game that they are blindly following biological impulses - well hmm. You may want to rethink your assumptions.

[quote]Universal Supernaturalism is a diety.[/quote]
What
constitutes as "God" is pretty obviously a VERY subjective matter.
Whereas you are saying universal supernaturalism is a deity, it is not
necessarily so.

[quote]Believing in dieties
are religion.[/quote]
Yet religion does not require belief in deities. Atheists can therefore be religious. Discussion over. Jeez.

[haberman13]

ImperialOperative wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Why do people like yourselves who clearly didn't read your own Bible completely feel the need to post the same old BS from some christian pastor's badly summarized speech here? Do you think you're going to convert people? Do you think you're going to prove your somehow superior? You christians are so obsesseed with running around trying to shove your "God" down people's throats as if you managing to scream at enough people would make it so your religion was validated.

And honestly silly debate is silly.

Islam and Buddhism are smaller combined than agnosticism or atheism?

wot lol

In defense of the christian logic, when one accepts that world view as true, it is morally imperative to spread god's message.  Also, the world view is beautiful, and would fix man's problems if followed.  It's really a cry for justic and desire for fairness that pushes most christians forward.  If you aren't interested they won't torture you or harm you, I promise.

[redhead1979]

haberman13 wrote...

atheism seems myopic to me, as an ideology it simply refuses to answer key questions by relying on arguments like the spaghetti monster. Sure, I can't prove a spaghetti monster doesn't exist, but I'm not proposing that the universe was created by a spaghetti monster... i.e. the universe is evidence of creation; where as a spaghetti monster would have no logical causal affect on that fact.

Things like red shift in the universe proving expansion, and the fact that there has NEVER been observation of a genome gaining data... which would be necessary for cross-special evolution.

Dawkins is a smart man, but google for "dawkins and aliens" or "dawkins and adding to the genome" and you will laugh as the atheist-messiah is truly stumped by the genome question, and suggests that humans were planted here by aliens because of the irrationality of human evolution coming from apes (even he doesn't believe it).

Also, Einstein was convinced there is a creator, though he denies the christian god he does explicitly state that the complexity of the universe and everything he understands about it suggests intelligence.

You managed to jam so much wrong into that post that you deserve some kind of award.

Atheism is not an ideology and makes no attempt to answer "key questions".  It is merely someone who does not believe that god or gods exist.  Period.  If you want to find out what they believe you'll have to be more specific with your questions.

The alien response Dawkins gave was in response to a question in which the interviewer asked if he could think of any scientific hypothosis for intelligent design.  Panspermia was the response.  No biggie.  The second was an ambush by a creationist during an interview.  His pause was him realizing the interviewer had come under false pretenses and wanted to choose his words carefully so they wouldn't be quote mined or taken out of context.

Genomes gain data.  It's called duplication.

I don't think Einstein ever said anything of the like.  Would you care to provide the quote?

[Inquisitor Recon]

I'm not using an atheist website, I'm using my own opinions.

Which I just happen to see used again and again by stereotypical forum atheists...

No. If people think about their beliefs as a result of what I say, that's great, but I'm not seeking to make any new atheists. Why would I care? It's not like I believe there's any reward after death for being an atheist.

Yeah, sure you aren't... I have seen the same thing dozens of occasions and too often trying to convert some people is the objective. You may not believe in a reward but perhaps it makes you feel better about yourself, or the same old story of simply wanting people to think as you do. Hell, I want people to think as I do as well.

Nope. I haven't said a single negative or condescending word about theists or the religious. I have no intention whatsoever to prove that god doesn't exist or that I'm superior.

Really now, then why do you and others come in here with the same old behavior of dismissing Christianity and this attitute of "in the future everybody will be like us". The original topic was simply a player's observations which make sense considering Christianity is more than likely to still be around in 2185.

I'm not obsessed. I'm not trying to prove that god doesn't exist. I KNOW that consensus doesn't mean jack. Most people are actually not Christians. Most people are not muslims. Most people are not jews. Most people are not atheists.

Yet on the internet I always see the damned atheists with the largest egos, and typing up the usual self-gratifying nonsense. This may or may not apply to you, but frankly it is damned annoying.

How compassionate of you.

Am I not merciful?

[Inquisitor Recon]

I keep getting double-posts today... frustrating...

Modifié par ReconTeam, 01 mars 2010 - 04:01 .

[newcomplex]

Collider wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

a) I have never said that we do or do not have free will.
No, I have never said nor intend to say that you have to follow what is wired within us.

You've failed to
produce the slightest shred of reason on why you blindly follow them,
yet you clearly do without frequent thoughts of suicide (hopefully [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]).

That is just unfair. First of all, I neither think that I or anyone else blindly follows our wiring. Second of all, if you think you can gather "clearly" from typed responses from someone you don't even know from a forum about an RPG video game that they are blindly following biological impulses - well hmm. You may want to rethink your assumptions.

Universal Supernaturalism is a diety.

What
constitutes as "God" is pretty obviously a VERY subjective matter.
Whereas you are saying universal supernaturalism is a deity, it is not
necessarily so.

Believing in dieties
are religion.

Yet religion does not require belief in deities. Atheists can therefore be religious. Discussion over. Jeez.

Uh I think you missed the gist of my post.   I was speaking in hypotheticals.   You clearly indicated that you were not following biological impulses.   Whatever.     I'm asking what is the universal constant you have for existence that is based on a universal (like math).     None.   Meaning you must construct your own faith based value system, whether it be faith in biological impulses as a universal quantitive, faith in personal happiness as a universal quanititve...whatever.   


Religion doesn't require the belief in dieties, your right.    Atheists cannot believe in dieties.   Find me a link which says athiests can believe in dieties (IE:zeus.   The living buddha)    

Modifié par newcomplex, 01 mars 2010 - 03:59 .