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[DarthCaine]

Christmas is just a tradition, and most people in the ME universe are atheist as hinted by Shepard/Ashley and Revelation

From Revelation:

In 2148, a mining team on Mars made perhaps humanity's greatest discovery. After investigating the 'Bermuda Triangle'-like reputation of the southern pole, the team unearthed the subterranean ruins of an ancient alien research station, revealing incontrovertible proof of the existence of alien life. Humanity was no longer alone in the universe.

The impact was profound in all areas of human culture, but nowhere more so than religion. New beliefs sprang up overnight such as the Interventionary Evolutionists, who zealously proclaimed the discovery as proof that all human history had been directed and controlled by alien forces. Even established religions struggled to explain extraterrestrial life. Some tried to incorporate this newfound knowledge into their dogma, while a few tried to stubbornly deny the evidence found on Mars.

The news of the discovery dominated the media and raised questions not only about the existence and purpose of man, but questions about the aliens themselves. Foremost, were they still out there? While these questions had served to fracture most religions they had a unifying effect in politics. Rather than nations fighting each other over their differences, it was now 'us vs. them' and the foundations of a united human front were laid.

Within a year of the discovery, Earth's eighteen largest nations had drafted and ratified the Systems Alliance charter, establishing a representative political body to expand and defend human territory. Shortly thereafter, the various nations of Earth pooled their military resources to create the Systems Alliance Military. The same year, 2156, the Alliance discovered the Sol system's mass relay orbiting Pluto, previously thought to be a moon, Charon. The Charon Relay propelled them into space and the reach of humanity grew quickly.

Modifié par DarthCaine, 27 février 2010 - 02:37 .

[Frotality]

you people do realize that santa claus is like the most widespread human cultural trait EVER?!

nearly every damn culture in the world has some santa iteration symbolizing some winter event. christmas is only christianity's chosen application of santa claus/winter event. even christians can agree that in america christmas is much more about santa and elves and presents than about religion; and whatever the chosen reason for celebrating a winter event anywhere else in the world, its still all about santa and all that BS.

santa claus is more popular than sex. he will never die, and he will never let his holidays die. in my personal opinion, santa claus is a greater threat than the reapers; i wouldnt doubt for a second that he is watching every human being 24/7, he already controls the damn world, a fear for the safety of all organic life in the universe should he spread his krinkly claws across the stars...

[Aedan_Cousland]

Mass Effect Revelation does not suggest that most of humanity is atheist by the 22nd Century, only that the discovery of alien life had a profound impact on religious thought and that some faiths fractured.

The text states that many of the major religions fractured, but I believe you are misreading it as stating that these faiths died off. Christianity for example fractured several times throughout it's history, first with the seperate Catholic and Greek Orthodox doctrines, and later with Protestantism. Islam fractured into Shia, Sunni, and Sufi beliefs, ect. All of those religions are still alive and well.

In the ME universe we know that Buddhism and Confucianism are still around, since both find many converts in Turian space. Although not mentioned directly it is highly probable that Christianity still exists, since a church is mentioned in game. I can't recall now whether or not Islam or Hinduism are ever mentioned, but I'd bet on those faiths still being around as well.
 
Ashley Williams is also most likely Christian, though that is up for debate.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 27 février 2010 - 04:41 .

[SirGladiator]

Im not really sure what type of religion the writer thought didn't believe in life on other planets. As a Christian myself, I know there is nothing inconsistent with my faith and the belief in life on other planets. Obviously I don't know all the views of all the relgions of the world on this matter, but certainly Christianity wouldn't be 'shaken' or whatever term you want to use, if/when we find life on other planets. If anything it would only strengthen it.

[Schneidend]

SirGladiator wrote...

Im not really sure what type of religion the writer thought didn't believe in life on other planets. As a Christian myself, I know there is nothing inconsistent with my faith and the belief in life on other planets. Obviously I don't know all the views of all the relgions of the world on this matter, but certainly Christianity wouldn't be 'shaken' or whatever term you want to use, if/when we find life on other planets. If anything it would only strengthen it.

Christian mythology focuses on Earth, heaven, hell and all life on them being God's creation. In the Bible, the Earth, heaven, and hell constitute the entire living world. There is nothing else. The existence of alien life would contradict this. Nearly all religions revolve around Earth being some kind of focal point for a larger, supernatural universe.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Schneidend wrote...

SirGladiator wrote...

Im not really sure what type of religion the writer thought didn't believe in life on other planets. As a Christian myself, I know there is nothing inconsistent with my faith and the belief in life on other planets. Obviously I don't know all the views of all the relgions of the world on this matter, but certainly Christianity wouldn't be 'shaken' or whatever term you want to use, if/when we find life on other planets. If anything it would only strengthen it.

Christian mythology focuses on Earth, heaven, hell and all life on them being God's creation. In the Bible, the Earth, heaven, and hell constitute the entire living world. There is nothing else. The existence of alien life would contradict this. Nearly all religions revolve around Earth being some kind of focal point for a larger, supernatural universe.

That is true only it if is a faith that stresses a literal interpretation of Genesis. Not all Christian faiths do.

[Inarai]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Ashley Williams is also most likely Christian, though that is up for debate.

She believes in a religion with some kind of heaven and a figure named "God".

And that belief is in enough of a minority that she feels the need to ask if that represents a problem.

[Varenus Luckmann]

massive_effect wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...
Christmas isn't a purely christian celebration, especially now that it's more of a consumer event than anything else.

Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ for me.

Keyword "for me".

In much of northern Europe, Christmas, or "Yule", is largly a secular holiday with very little emphasis on christianity. In other parts of the world, it's become almost purely a commercialist seasonal salespitch.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Edit: Crap board.

Modifié par Varenus Luckmann, 27 février 2010 - 05:48 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

Inarai wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Ashley Williams is also most likely Christian, though that is up for debate.

She believes in a religion with some kind of heaven and a figure named "God".

And that belief is in enough of a minority that she feels the need to ask if that represents a problem.

She has a North American accent and an English surname. Chances are, she's a WASP. Although she never states what faith she belongs to, her background at least suggests it is more likely than not that she is Christian.  If her name had been Fatima Mahoud, I'd assume she was Muslim. Note that I'm only saying it is probable that she is Christian, not that it is definite.

Her comments in game didn't suggest that religious belief was rare, only that she didn't know where Shepard stood and didn't want it to be an issue between them. She says she met a few people who were wierded out by her faith. That doesn't necessarily suggest she's unusual. In fact I'd say it is common experience even in the real world when people start talking openly about their religious beliefs.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 27 février 2010 - 06:00 .

[Schneidend]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

That is true only it if is a faith that stresses a literal interpretation of Genesis. Not all Christian faiths do.

Ah, of course, I forgot that Christian mythology was conveniently open to interpretation and thus allows Christians to believe whatever they like (no matter how offensive or insulting it might be to others) and still be "right" with their church's doctrines.

[newcomplex]

Speaking as a Atheist, Atheism is as much of a religion as believing in Jesus Christ's divinity. All truths are lies, as humans construct their own reality. None of the values we hold dear, love, hope, happiness, hedonism, not even sex or survival or conciousness are universal, nor meaningful. Atheists choose to believe in themselves, to worship love and death and knowledge and fullfillment and meaning as Christians worship god. Both are equally valid, and both are equally false.

To believe in evolution, to believe in the solar system, to believe in anything is as much of a religion as believing in Jesus Christ.

Belief itself is faith, to believe is to worship the universal signficance of humans, of consciousness, of reality, when in fact, we are nothing but complex cosmic equations that construct a universe where none exist.    Even the very reality we inhibit is nothing but a construction of that exists only in our minds, from time to space.

It is impossible to live without religion.     We all construct our own realities with no universal evidence of its importance.    We all construct meaning from nothing.    To be an Atheist is no less  foolish then to be a Christian, for false belief is what it means to be conscious, to be an individual, to construct a universe where one fundamentally does not exist.   

And in that regard, Formal Religion is far more admirable then Atheism (speaking as an Atheist).     Atheists worship facts and meaning and life, to which the ends nullify the means though oblivion; The more one uncovers about the universe, about life, the less reason one has to live it.   In order to persist, one must construct its own reality contrary to what the evidence points towards, a end that is blatantly contrary to the purpose.    At least Religion worships faith, in which the end justify the means; the belief and worship of god can only lead to a greater belief and worship of god.  


edit:

btw im drunk right now.   

Modifié par newcomplex, 27 février 2010 - 06:23 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

Schneidend wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

That is true only it if is a faith that stresses a literal interpretation of Genesis. Not all Christian faiths do.

Ah, of course, I forgot that Christian mythology was conveniently open to interpretation and thus allows Christians to believe whatever they like (no matter how offensive or insulting it might be to others) and still be "right" with their church's doctrines.

Relax, I'm an Agnostiic.

I'm just pointing out that not all Christians interpret Genesis literally. If an alien spacecraft landed in Times Square tommorow, I doubt it would affect the Catholics much for example. Seventh Day Adventists on the other hand....

[Schneidend]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Relax, I'm an Agnostiic.

I'm just pointing out that not all Christians interpret Genesis literally. If an alien spacecraft landed in Times Square tommorow, I doubt it would affect the Catholics much for example. Seventh Day Adventists on the other hand....

Eh, sorry. I was a bit on edge when I posted that.

Yes, Catholics do generally seem like well-adjusted folk to me, having grown up going to a Catholic private school. I don't think the average person going to church on Sunday is going to be too affected by alien, religiously. However, there is a significant percentage of crazies out there. I don't think the gay bashers and the abortion protesters are going to be any more receptive to the idea of sentient life on other planets. Though, to be honest, I worry a District 9 situation would totally happen if visitors came, religion aside. Humans in general are prone to freaking out and blowing things wildly out of proportion, and it's rarely ever positive.

[massive_effect]

The Catholic Church recently discussed the possiblity of alien life, but I don't know what they concluded. However, it is common sense that if you haven't seen aliens, you shouldn't assume they exist. Carl Sagan had deduced that aliens must exist based on the mathmatical probability of life spawning and the incredible number of planets in the universe. The only problem with that model is that we only have one planet with life, and we can't explain how we spawned scientifically.

Modifié par massive_effect, 27 février 2010 - 08:07 .

[Dogmatic Atheist]

> With science, you seek the truth.

>

> With religion and spirituality, you start with the truth.



I can't even begin to describe the absurdity of this statement.



In any case, saying that atheism is a religion is like saying being unemployed is a profession.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

massive_effect wrote...

The Catholic Church recently discussed the possiblity of alien life, but I don't know what they concluded. However, it is common sense that if you haven't seen aliens, you shouldn't assume they exist. Carl Sagan had deduced that aliens must exist based on the mathmatical probability of life spawning and the incredible number of planets in the universe. The only problem with that model is that we only have one planet with life, and we can't explain how we spawned scientifically.

Soooo.. if we shouldn't assume that Alien life exists because we can't categorically prove it's existence, due to the fact that nobody has seen any, can we also categorically dismiss a Deity for the very same reasons?

I should say so.

[Bryy_Miller]

ME seems to be confusing his personal beliefs with not only his entire religion's, but individual's.

[theartistformerlyknownas]

It wouldn't make sense for people to abandon their faith with the discovery extra-terrestrial life. The Catholic Church recently accepted the possibilty of life outside of earth and deemed them to be within the realm of God's creation.

[Kid_SixXx]

In any case, saying that atheism is a religion is like saying being unemployed is a profession.

In some segments of society, there are those that do indeed work very hard to keep from working.

As for Athiesm being a religion, the belief that there is no God is as precious to the core beliefs of an athiest as believing in God is to the core beliefs of a Christian but that doesn't necessarily make it a religion.

Religion requires dogma and athiesm doesn't. 

Theism without dogma isn't religion either.

Modifié par Kid_SixXx, 27 février 2010 - 09:59 .

[newcomplex]

Dogmatic Atheist wrote...

> With science, you seek the truth.
>
> With religion and spirituality, you start with the truth.

I can't even begin to describe the absurdity of this statement.

In any case, saying that atheism is a religion is like saying being unemployed is a profession.

I'm not sure if your addressing my post i posted last night, but I never made that statement.  

Atheism IS a religion.    Simply put, what foundations do you have for your motives, your drives, your interests in life?   What determines their signficance other then personal belief?   And is their a universal law that comfirms that belief, whether it be hedonism or darwinism or plain people and urselfism?   No.    The foundation for our reality is belief, like a Christian.    We simply believe different things.    

Modifié par newcomplex, 27 février 2010 - 09:44 .

[0LunarEclipse0]

massive_effect wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

Christmas isn't a purely christian celebration, especially now that it's more of a consumer event than anything else.

Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ for me.

However it was stolen from the week long Pagan festival that ended December 25th, look it up.

[TuringPoint]

Christmas is a cultural holiday for many.

[Sangheili_1337]

It makes sense that Christmas still exists in the ME time line. It would be impossible for such a cultural phenomenon to die out in just 200 years. I dont see it as a religious holiday however that would mainly depend on where you are raised. Athiesm is a fast growing demographic and it would be nice if this is reflected in the ME verse. Maybe a whole new race that has a secular dominant culture (Dont think Collectors count as they are basically tools created by the Reapers).

[Inarai]

newcomplex wrote...

Dogmatic Atheist wrote...

> With science, you seek the truth.
>
> With religion and spirituality, you start with the truth.

I can't even begin to describe the absurdity of this statement.

In any case, saying that atheism is a religion is like saying being unemployed is a profession.

I'm not sure if your addressing my post i posted last night, but I never made that statement.  

Atheism IS a religion.    Simply put, what foundations do you have for your motives, your drives, your interests in life?   What determines their signficance other then personal belief?   And is their a universal law that comfirms that belief, whether it be hedonism or darwinism or plain people and urselfism?   No.    The foundation for our reality is belief, like a Christian.    We simply believe different things.    

...  I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one - the foundation of our reality is reality.  The foundation of secular philosophy, then, is attempting to understand that reality.

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Inarai wrote...

Aedan_Cousland
wrote...

Ashley Williams is also most likely Christian, though
that is up for debate.

She believes in a
religion with some kind of heaven and a figure named "God".

And
that belief is in enough of a minority that she feels the need to ask if
that represents a problem.

She has a North
American accent and an English surname. Chances are, she's a WASP.
Although she never states what faith she belongs to, her background at
least suggests it is more likely than not that she is Christian.  If her
name had been Fatima Mahoud, I'd assume she was Muslim. Note that I'm
only saying it is probable that she is Christian, not that it is
definite.

Her comments in game didn't suggest that religious
belief was rare, only that she didn't know where Shepard stood and
didn't want it to be an issue between them. She says she met a few
people who were wierded out by her faith. That doesn't necessarily
suggest she's unusual. In fact I'd say it is common experience even in
the real world when people start talking openly about their religious
beliefs.

Modern day, religon is basically an assumed state.  The idea that she should feel to need to ask that question suggests a MASSIVE cultural shift.

massive_effect wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

Christmas
isn't a purely christian celebration, especially now that it's more of a
consumer event than anything else.

Christmas is the
celebration of the birth of Christ for me.

Good for you!  Do you think it represents the same thing to those atheists who celebrate it?

Modifié par Inarai, 28 février 2010 - 04:40 .