766 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabriana]

My PCs are all female, and Leliana flirts openly with them. Does that make her a lesbian? No, she also likes men, and like Zevran that makes her bi-sexual, not gay. Neither one is locked into a gender, it's up to the player to decide.

Zevran is very handsome, imo. My girls all fall for him, and he is monogamous toward them. He falls in love with my girls, and he becomes a loyal and devoted lover. He proposes to them later on. It's the same with males who romance him. He is loyal to anyone who shows him appreciation and love.

So is Leliana. It matters not to her if the one who romances her is male or female. She shows the same appreciation to a woman as she does to a man.

If you have questions about how to turn off Zevran's romance, click on Ejoslin's sig. Great information to be had there.

[Ahisgewaya]

I'm guessing you haven't spoken to Zevran late in the game as a male. At least in my case, he hit on me all the time. It was really annoying.



Nearly every conversation was:



Zevran: "Want to go to my tent?"

Me: "Hell no."

Zevran: "You sure?"

Me: "Hell yes."

Zevran: "How about now?"

[ejoslin]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

I'm guessing you haven't spoken to Zevran late in the game as a male. At least in my case, he hit on me all the time. It was really annoying.

Nearly every conversation was:

Zevran: "Want to go to my tent?"
Me: "Hell no."
Zevran: "You sure?"
Me: "Hell yes."
Zevran: "How about now?"

Why did you just not tell him from the start you were straight?  That turns it off permanently. 

Edit: In fact, there are SEVERAL ways to turn it off permanently.  If you're romancing him, he'll ask.  If you are NOT romancing him, he will not.  

Second edit: And he only offers the massage once.  To males or females.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mars 2010 - 05:44 .

[Sabriana]

Ahisgewaya, as I said before, click on Ejoslin's sig. Zevran's romance is actually the only one that can be turned off early and easily. Lel, gets the ninja-love going for my girls, and even Alistair turned back on (but that was my fault) but Zevran isn't. He might be glitched in your game, but I actually had to ditch a play-through because my PC inadvertently turned the Zevran romance off and there was no chance to turn it back on. Silly girl.

Ninja'd by Ejoslin. Strangely enough, I'm not surprised

Modifié par Sabriana, 01 mars 2010 - 05:46 .

[Ahisgewaya]

Yeah, I told him. Repeatedly. Apparently he doesn't beleive me.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Ahisgewaya, as I said before, click on Ejoslin's sig. Zevran's romance is actually the only one that can be turned off early and easily. Lel, gets the ninja-love going for my girls, and even Alistair turned back on (but that was my fault) but Zevran isn't. He might be glitched in your game, but I actually had to ditch a play-through because my PC inadvertently turned the Zevran romance off and there was no chance to turn it back on. Silly girl.

Ninja'd by Ejoslin. Strangely enough, I'm not surprised

LOL, Sabriana.  As anyone who has actually done the Zevran romance knows, Zevran only propositions the Warden once.  The only way to get Zev asking over and over is to continually reload the game at that point.  If someone wants to hate Zevran, though, apparently it's fine to make up things that don't exist and then post them on the forum as fact.

[Monica21]

ejoslin wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Ahisgewaya, as I said before, click on Ejoslin's sig. Zevran's romance is actually the only one that can be turned off early and easily. Lel, gets the ninja-love going for my girls, and even Alistair turned back on (but that was my fault) but Zevran isn't. He might be glitched in your game, but I actually had to ditch a play-through because my PC inadvertently turned the Zevran romance off and there was no chance to turn it back on. Silly girl.

Ninja'd by Ejoslin. Strangely enough, I'm not surprised

LOL, Sabriana.  As anyone who has actually done the Zevran romance knows, Zevran only propositions the Warden once.  The only way to get Zev asking over and over is to continually reload the game at that point.  If someone wants to hate Zevran, though, apparently it's fine to make up things that don't exist and then post them on the forum as fact.

Or, it could be his game is glitched.

[Ahisgewaya]

Ah, I think I see what I'm doing wrong. I sometimes say stuff like the "you never mix business with pleasure?".

That didn't seem like a flirting thing to say.

I also said "Handsome?"  because I considered it a compliment........

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 01 mars 2010 - 05:53 .

[ejoslin]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Yeah, I told him. Repeatedly. Apparently he doesn't beleive me.

Ok, is your status with him warm, friendly, adore, or love?  If it's adore or love, break up with him and don't restart the romance.  If it's warm or friendly, you're reading some very strange stuff there.  Zevran offers the massage all of once -- and at that point it's very easy to break up with him, turn it down but keep the romance going, or have the sexy time.  If you choose to do the sexytime you can make it a one night stand, and again, romance over.

*grin* Zevran romance problems are usually not this easily solved 

[Maximus741000]

Given a little time to look through this thread, I can understand what you were originally trying to convey in the first place, Sabriana,(if somewhat cruelly in my book). We all need to remember that in Dragon Age origins, it's not possible to get by as a purely good character, everyone has their flaws. Alistair, for all his appeal can be whiny and abandons you if you recruit Loghain. Cailan was having higher tier relations with Empress Celene, despite the fact that he was married to Anora. Zevran, though once an arrogant and ruthless assassin, can develop into one more pragmatic than cruel, and loyal as well. Ultimately, Leliana is just an example of a nearly pure good charcter, but one that's had a mired past. In my opinion, I'm a Leliana fan at the end of the day, and will repel or compromise any accusations.

[ejoslin]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Ah, I think I see what I'm doing wrong. I sometimes say stuff like the "you never mix business with pleasure?".

That didn't seem like a flirting thing to say.

It doesn't? Given the conversation is about sex with a target, I'm not sure how it doesn't seem flirty, but yeh, if you are continually picking lines like that, you're turning on the romance.  He STILL only will proposition you once, though.

[errant_knight]

asaiasai wrote...

I am not sure how to double quote here so bear with me I went out to office to prepare this reply.
 
This is the OP for this thread.
 
***Ok. I'm a rabid Zevran fan-girl, and I am getting very tired of having to defend him to the homophobics and the one's who can't see their own thoughts in front of their eyes.

Leliana is a bard. She grew up in a wealthy household. She was never tortured or abused. She was not a slave her entire life. She choose to become a bard, and would do any- and everything to please the woman she loved.

She is very enthusiastic about her chosen life-style. She describes how she loved the 'hunt', the 'seduction' and the 'killing' of men.

She lived that way because she chose it. Not because she was a slave. Not because she had no other choice. She lies to the PC from the beginning on. No one forced her into anything. She fell for a woman, and did anything to please her. Unlike Zevran, she describes torture as being a factor.

After meeting Majorlaine, she describes how much she loved her life-style. Unlike Zevran, who reveals that he regrets many things, she practically gushes about her joy about being a bard. Why is it forgiveable to her, but Zevran gets condemned? I really would like some input here, thank you.***
 
Now here is your post that I quoted.
 
***Um, I'm trying to stay out of this, but I have to note that, while there are jackasses everywhere, most people's difficulties with either the Zevran or Leiliana characters have little to do with their bisexuality and lots to do with them murdering people for fun and profit.

The notion that if you find those aspects of their characters to be a barrier, you must be a raging homophobe is entirely unfair.***
 
This is the post from Dalishranger who did get where I was coming from. This is my point entirely you are always doing some else’s dirty work. You are no different than Leliana and Zeveran except for one detail they are now doing your dirty work.
 
****I think they were simply trying to point out due to the events in the game (even if you make the most "saintly" of choices), the Warden has a lot of blood on their hands too, not just Zevran and Leliana. That's the basic gist I got, anyway.***
 
This speaks to the quality of the writing and a hearty thanks to Bioware for allowing/forcing the options they do in resolving these situations. This prevents the game from becoming some completely linear experience.
 
Now I will pick my post apart and explain each concept in greater detail.
I am not trying to single you out, but i would like to point out that in game your character's hands are not entirely clean.  You are given, and be thankful for that, gotta love Bioware, the choice in how several situations are resolved. 
 
 These are examples of how you are forced into doing someone else’s dirty work, you did not decide to go to these places, you were sent. The game in a sense says here is a problem you need to resolve in what ever manner you choose.
 
 Haven is butchered at your hands, granted they started it but the village dies, and your responsible. The Dalish/Werewolves situation is resolved in one of three ways. You would have to be extremely niave not to know that no matter who you pick to be king in Oz the other one will die, either by the new kings hand or your own. The tower, Earl Eamon's son, the landsmeet all of these things share one thing in common, you are doing someone's dirty work. This is no different than the position that Zev and Leliana were in, they were also doing someone's dirty work.
 
What exactly do you think war is, butchering another man blade or bomb is irrelevant the fact still remains someone lives and someone dies. Where do you think the nice selection of meat in your grocery store comes from, cows, pigs, and chickens do not willingly fall on the blades in the packing houses. My point is as horrific as either of these situations are, both are necessary, as the first one protects the second one feeds.
 
 The world needs its butchers to feed or protect and now Zev and Leliana work for you, The Butcher of  Feraldin, as someone who truly should understand the stakes, failure is not an option. Just because they call you a Grey Warden as opposed to The Butcher of Feraldin does not mean that the titles and the jobs are any diferent, the culling of the herd has begun. 
 
 While you do not seem to be the typical raging homophobe that prowels these forums I detected a bit of it and also some indignation at being labeld. I have seen enough homophobia in this forum and the ME2 forums to last a life time. The very fact that in order to engage in a same sex romance in DAO the player MUST pursue that option that to rail against it is specious at best. Anyone’s indignation at being labeled a homophobe has no business being directed in my direction, because I have provided the criteria by which they label themselves. To say that you do not like either of the characters because they are killers, and deny that the choice is influenced by orientation is deluding yourself. They do what the player tells them to do, you are culpable for their actions be it killing or sexuality, the only one who has any influence on what the characters do is the player themselves.   
 
 This whole story goes so deep and works on so many levels, that if people really understood it, something as insignifigant as the orientation of 2 individual characters is really irrelevant in the overall scheme of things, and it is by thier own actions that they call attention to themselves by complaining about that insignifigant detail. As they are options that the player has to choose to scream about them is akin to slapping a sticker on your chest that says, "Hello my name is XXXXXX and i am a homophobe". We are not labeling you, you are labeling you,  we are just pointing it out, and just like the depth of the story some people will miss it. 
 
I am not trying to do any thing other than give people something to think about. You will either consider what I have written or ignore it as always the choice is the readers. That will not stop me from making my uncomfortable observations. As an individual who for the most part can not be offended I am guilty of forgetting that other people can be. I will not apologize for it because I recognize that the only right I have is the right to decide what is right for me, and so long as consent is granted that is as far as anyone has the right to go regardless of who is buying and selling the dogma what ever it represents.   

Asai 

Okay. You know that I already said I understood what you were saying about the violence, right? That I just didn't agree? So saying it again in bold and more detail doesn't make a difference. The only part I didn't get was why you were calling me a homophobe. Let's see if we can't figure that out, shall we?

"While you do not seem to be the typical raging homophobe that prowels these forums I detected a bit of it and also some indignation at being labeld."
 What did I say that was homophobic? Quote please, because I can't imagine. And don't you object to blanket rants implying that anyone that doesn't feel exactly the same about a character must be a bigot? I thought my objection was quite polite and understated, myself.

"I have seen enough homophobia in this forum and the ME2 forums to last a life time. The very fact that in order to engage in a same sex romance in DAO the player MUST pursue that option that to rail against it is specious at best. "

Er, I can see why that might be annoying. Perhaps you should be making these comments in a thread where someone has done so, hmm?

"Anyone’s indignation at being labeled a homophobe has no business being directed in my direction, because I have provided the criteria by which they label themselves. "

Okay, I guess. Still don't see what it has to do with me, or even this thread.

"To say that you do not like either of the characters because they are killers, and deny that the choice is influenced by orientation is deluding yourself. "

Ah! Here we are at last! The point! According to you, I, and anyone else, who isn't entirely comfortable with Zevran and/or Leiliana's history as assassains if secretly a homophobe!  So it doesn't matter that I've never said doodly-squat about their orientation, or complained about it in any way.

Hmm, I don't know how to counter arguments that are made entirely with your spidy-senses, except to say that you're veering into a Loghain level of paranoia. That argument only holds true if one accepts the hypothesis that the player's actions in Haven, etc, are exactly the same as assassaination, and therefore the player must have underlying reasons for any issues with the characters, which are unrelated to their history as assassains, further assuming that the only possible thing that could be is homophobia. Meaning, of course, that one must see this exactly as you do to percieve the 'truth.'

That's a huge leap with nothing to base it on but your own predisposition to believe that everything boils down to sexual orientation. 

"They do what the player tells them to do, you are culpable for their actions be it killing or sexuality, the only one who has any influence on what the characters do is the player themselves."   

Well, no. They come with a past history and attitudes, and some of those things may be found more appealing than others. I don't care about their sexuality. Alistair could be a gay character and I would stilll love him, I'd just play a male character a whole lot more often. I'm not even saying that I don't like Leiliana or Zevran, just that I find it harder to get close to them because of their attitudes to assassaination. Uh, which you won't believe, of course, because you see delusion where none exists. I begin to see what it was like for Cailan and Anora to deal with Loghain....

Here's the thing, and I think you're going to have some trouble with this one--not everything is about sex.

"I am not trying to do any thing other than give people something to think about. You will either consider what I have written or ignore it as always the choice is the readers. That will not stop me from making my uncomfortable observations. "

Observations are only uncomfortable if they hold a grain of truth, so I'm afraid you overestimate your effect. That being said, I couldn't let your diatribe go by without comment as it seemed so entirely baseless.

"As an individual who for the most part can not be offended I am guilty of forgetting that other people can be. I will not apologize for it because I recognize that the only right I have is the right to decide what is right for me, and so long as consent is granted that is as far as anyone has the right to go regardless of who is buying and selling the dogma what ever it represents".   

Okay, I'll keep that in mind. No manners, got it. Sort of. The end of the sentence kind of lost coherence.

Modifié par errant_knight, 01 mars 2010 - 05:56 .

[Sabriana]

True, too true. Even if Zevran is romanced the proposition plays once and only once. But this goes right into the thread. If you do want to hate him for his sexuality, what better way is there to post things as facts that aren't supported by the game.

As for Ahisgewaya, I feel strangely disappointed.

[ejoslin]

Monica21 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Ahisgewaya, as I said before, click on Ejoslin's sig. Zevran's romance is actually the only one that can be turned off early and easily. Lel, gets the ninja-love going for my girls, and even Alistair turned back on (but that was my fault) but Zevran isn't. He might be glitched in your game, but I actually had to ditch a play-through because my PC inadvertently turned the Zevran romance off and there was no chance to turn it back on. Silly girl.

Ninja'd by Ejoslin. Strangely enough, I'm not surprised

LOL, Sabriana.  As anyone who has actually done the Zevran romance knows, Zevran only propositions the Warden once.  The only way to get Zev asking over and over is to continually reload the game at that point.  If someone wants to hate Zevran, though, apparently it's fine to make up things that don't exist and then post them on the forum as fact.

Or, it could be his game is glitched.

If so, I'd love that glitch   In all my playthroughs, my warden only gets invited to the tent once 

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mars 2010 - 06:00 .

[Sabriana]

Oh, yes. I'd so love it, as would all my girls. My battle maidens had him glitch into love early, and even though it was just eye-candy, it did feel awesome.

[Ahisgewaya]

well as far as I know he only did proposition me once and I told him no. Took a huge influence hit too. But then he started flirting again so I thought "okay, he's not getting the hint".



And I don't hate Zevran. On the contrary, I like Zevran quite a bit, just not in that way....

[Ahisgewaya]

And I'm fine with his sexuality. I just don't swing that way if you get my meaning.
Which is why I told him I was fine with it, which now that I think about it might have also triggered the romance thing again.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 01 mars 2010 - 06:03 .

[ejoslin]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

well as far as I know he only did proposition me once and I told him no. Took a huge influence hit too. But then he started flirting again so I thought "okay, he's not getting the hint".

And I don't hate Zevran. On the contrary, I like Zevran quite a bit, just not in that way....

You CAN turn off the romance permanently, though.  Quite easily.  Then you have no more opportunities to flirt (therefore he will not flirt back).  Most people have problems with not being able to turn it back on after breaking up with him, actually.  Tell him it will never happen.  Tell him you're straight.  I'm not sure where you are in the romance, but it is the easiest one to turn off for good, and not even with an approval loss if you haven't started the romance.

Breaking up with him will cause an approval loss in most cases, like it does with any other character.

Edit: And I apologize if I took a harsh tone with you.  But I know that he only outright propositions a warden once, male or female, despite what you wrote here.  Yes, there's a lot of flirting that goes on if you're romancing him -- and you really can't expect anything different.  But if you keep it friendzone, there's no flirting unless the warden flirts first.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mars 2010 - 06:06 .

[Maria Caliban]

errant_knight wrote...

Um, I'm trying to stay out of this, but I have to note that, while there are jackasses everywhere, most people's difficulties with either the Zevran or Leiliana characters have little to do with their bisexuality and lots to do with them murdering people for fun and profit.

The notion that if you find those aspects of their characters to be a barrier, you must be a raging homophobe is entirely unfair.

The majority of people don't think that way. Only a handful of fans will defend every aspect of the characters and assume any criticism is homophobia.

I will note though that there *are* bigots. Some people hated Zevran before the game even came out because he was rumored to be a male same-sex option. When I see those same people posting about how horrible he is, I can’t help but see bias.

[Ahisgewaya]

That also might be the problem right there (losing approval).  I hate losing approval with party members, so I usually save right before talking to them and reload if I lose any approval.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 01 mars 2010 - 06:05 .

[ejoslin]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

That also might be the problem right there (losing approval).  I hate losing approval with party members, so I usually save right before talking to them and reload if I lose any approval.

Oh, don't do that.  To keep his approval going in the right direction, be polite and let him know you're happy to have him along.  Flirting will get you the highest approval gains with all your companions, but then you lose that approval (and sometimes with interest) when it comes time to break up.

[Sabriana]

I get it Ahisgewaya, and I do agree, just trying to be polite isn't going to cut it .

Just look at Ejoslin's FAQ about turning his romance off. I understand completely. My Leliana was totally glitched, and I hated having to break up with her over and over. Her sadness really made me wince. I uninstalled/reinstalled and so far she is fine with being just good buddies. I'll keep my fingers crossed. But there is no 'casual flirt' in DA:O with the allies. If you choose the romance lines, it will turn on. Yes, you have to be blunt, and no, if it is nixed right off the bat, it will stay off, especially the Zevran romance.

[errant_knight]

Maria Caliban wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Um, I'm trying to stay out of this, but I have to note that, while there are jackasses everywhere, most people's difficulties with either the Zevran or Leiliana characters have little to do with their bisexuality and lots to do with them murdering people for fun and profit.

The notion that if you find those aspects of their characters to be a barrier, you must be a raging homophobe is entirely unfair.

The majority of people don't think that way. Only a handful of fans will defend every aspect of the characters and assume any criticism is homophobia.

I will note though that there *are* bigots. Some people hated Zevran before the game even came out because he was rumored to be a male same-sex option. When I see those same people posting about how horrible he is, I can’t help but see bias.

I get that, but I can't help but see pre-emptive accusations of bigotry as being a bad thing. Counter productive, too.

[Maria Caliban]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

...ignore Maria.

She practically is Lelliana.

I'm like Leliana without the 'sweet and friendly.' I'm also agnostic and have never spied on or killed anyone. Also, I can't sing.

Other than that? Just like her.

[Ahisgewaya]

And your picture is Lelliana, not you. Although I wouldn't be surprised if you had a mod that made you look exactly like her.
And another Mod that makes all the other party members look like her.

And you always say how wonderful she is......

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 01 mars 2010 - 06:22 .