766 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

AndreaDraco wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Other than imported_beer and myself, I wouldn't say I like anyone in this thread.

Sorry Andrea, forgot about you.

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Am I that forgetable? I'll have to try to be twice as obnoxious from now on.

No worries. I didn't realize I'd interacted with Sabrina previously until about page 7 of this thread.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 01 mars 2010 - 07:31 .

[Ahisgewaya]

She tends to do that, you know.

[OldMan91]

Why are we talking about forum celebrities when we could be talking about how great Leliana is and how she is just so much better than Zevran, thereby baiting Sabriana to respond and we can continue the namecalling?

[AndreaDraco]

Haven't we already decided that Zevran and Leliana (and Shale, of course ) are the best? I see that the new trend is Schmooples. Or we could try to justify Marjolaine. Now that would be difficult, no?

[ejoslin]

OldMan91 wrote...

Why are we talking about forum celebrities when we could be talking about how great Leliana is and how she is just so much better than Zevran, thereby baiting Sabriana to respond and we can continue the namecalling?

Only if someone offers to bite me again . . .

Edit: That was very hot. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mars 2010 - 07:36 .

[Sabriana]

I guess I have to refresh your memory, Caliban. There were several instances on the old boards where Priestly insisted on riling I_B. Mayhap you don't remember. But I certainly do.



You are a great source of debate, Caliban. You are so great about posting your opinions as facts, and you spark discussion with it. Nothing wrong with that. I love watching your posts, and wondering when the posters in it will figure out that facts a la Caliban are not facts a la BioWare. It's very entertaining. Really. Honest truth.

[Maria Caliban]

Leliana: Has possibly never raped anyone.
Leliana: Might feel sorta bad about that 'murder' stuff she used to do.
Leliana: Even if the Maker existed, why would he send you visions? You of all people?

[Ahisgewaya]

I just like Heckling people who like Leliana.

[Ahisgewaya]

Leliana: Has possibly never raped anyone.
I don't know......she is a bard (captivating song and all that)

Leliana: Might feel sorta bad about that 'murder' stuff she used to do.
Yet she still did it. And she only says she might sorta feel bad. Doesn't mean she actually does.

Leliana: Even if the Maker existed, why would he send you visions? You of all people?
The Guardian of the Ashes answered this already. She just wants attention.

[OldMan91]

I always harden Leliana. Some people have mentioned how [Hardened] Leliana goes back to being an immoral bard and becomes bloodthirsty or something, which is untrue. Both [Unhardened] and [Hardened] Leliana will act with a fixed moral compass, that being kind and caring about most things.

The difference is that [Unhardened] Leliana keeps the lessons learned in the Chantry with her. [Hardened] Leliana simply wants to experience life, both the good and bad things in it. She becomes more adventurous in most things (and she still believes in the Maker and keeps being religious), the evidence for this for example can be seen when you have the threesome with Isabela.

Modifié par OldMan91, 01 mars 2010 - 07:43 .

[Maximus741000]

@Ahisgewaya,you should go back and change that 'obnoxious' to anti-sarcasm, it's really lame. And cease your antagonism of people who like Leliana, people are entitled to their opinions, but forcing false logic down on people will get you no friendships from me. This is no forum to be reduced to petty fights and sarcastic bitterness.Hostility will not be tolerated. On anyone's front. What's more is that the fact you set these reasonings that are totally stubborn and unsound. Why?



On another note, this thread was set to establish who was better, Leliana or Zevran, the truth is there is no who is better than whom in Dragon Age: Origins, while there are acts committed that we classify as evil, there are at least some redeeming qualities for each character, even if those reasons are more practical than humanity-based . Loghain was Ferelden's finest tactician and warrior of his time, yet he went on to betray Cailan, Cailan on the other hand was popular and loved by his people, but pragmatists like Loghain chafed with him.

[Maria Caliban]

The Guardian also thinks the Maker is real and Andreste was his bride and prophet. As Leliana’s ‘visions from the Maker’ go against the standard Chantry line, I’m not surprised to hear he thinks it’s all BS.

[Sabriana]

Leliana: seduced men to get close enough to kill them

Leliana: Ran to the chantry for protection, and had two years to be brain-washed

Leliana: still feels that the 'hunt' was exiting after two years in the chantry

Leliana: Lies to the PC

Visions? If I had them, I'd run to my nearest colleague.

[ejoslin]

Maximus741000 wrote...

On another note, this thread was set to establish who was better, Leliana or Zevran, the truth is there is no who is better than whom in Dragon Age: Origins, while there are acts committed that we classify as evil, there are at least some redeeming qualities for each character, even if those reasons are more practical than humanity-based . Loghain was Ferelden's finest tactician and warrior of his time, yet he went on to betray Cailan, Cailan on the other hand was popular and loved by his people, but pragmatists like Loghain chafed with him.

Actually, I believe this thread was set to establish that Zevran really is more harshly treated than Leliana, despite the two having remarkably similar backgrounds.

[Sabriana]

Maximus, you still don't understand. It's not who's better, but why they are conceived so differently. I don't dislike Leliana. Not at all. But I do want to know why the two characters who are so much alike are viewed so differently.

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
I get that, but I can't help but see pre-emptive accusations of bigotry as being a bad thing. Counter productive, too.

I agree, and generalizations are in general bad (irony, heh).  Though FWIW my husband can't forgive Zevran for hitting on his male PCs and thus has a generally bad impression of the character, and I don't think he's unusual in this respect because you certainly come across similar sentiment on the forums.  So there is something to it, at least for my 2 bits.

I asked him as to why he doesn't have the same reaction to Leliana (his PCs have romanced her) and his response was that she seems to prefer men.  Which is to say he doesn't seem to have gotten to know either character too well.  LOL  Cute redhead was probably as deep as it got.

I'm not saying that such thinking might not effect some views, and when such a view is stated, one has every right to say something about it. What I am saying, is that drawing conclusions based on attemped mindreading doesn't actually work, and says more about one's own mind than the mind of the, uh, read-ee. Hmm. Not a word. Sorry....

Unless one can actually read minds, of course.

[OldMan91]

Leliana: still feels that the 'hunt' was exiting after two years in the chantry

Just so we're clear: When Leliana talks about the hunt, she's talking about chasing after her objective, and not the act of killing in itself. She makes this clear in a conversation she has with Zevran.

Leliana: We have many things in common, Zevran
Zevran:
Other than our purity and beauty?
Leliana: We both
spent many years in places other than Ferelden. You are an assassin, and
I, a bard.
Zevran: Then you were called upon to kill.
Leliana:
Often. I didn't like it, but I did it anyway.
Zevran:
You didn't like it? You didn't like the thrill of the hunt?
Leliana:
I suppose... I did like that. The hunt... not the killing.
Zevran:
The killing just signals the end of the hunt. Without it, the chase
goes on. You killed your marks cleanly, I hope.
Leliana:
Whenever possible.
Zevran: Good, when the prey is
caught, it deserves a good death, a clean death.
Zevran:
Perhaps you are right; we have much in common.

Modifié par OldMan91, 01 mars 2010 - 07:56 .

[Maximus741000]

Sabriana wrote...

Maximus, you still don't understand. It's not who's better, but why they are conceived so differently. I don't dislike Leliana. Not at all. But I do want to know why the two characters who are so much alike are viewed so differently.

my apologies, but this thread became so convoluted and your initial posts did little to explain your intentions. Ultimately, I do agree that the two are very similar, but the truth is, it's the Leliana and Zev critics who are the ones who don't understand this in full and the growing hostility between members, I'm just analysing what I've read, and as a result yeilded a bad judgement. But fundamentally, I find that the two are similar, not one of them could be accused of being worse than the other.

[Sabriana]

Like Alistair says, Maximus. Point taken. I agree, I should have worded the OP better. But I was ticked off, and furthermore, English is not my first language. I appreciate your elaboration.



Not the killing? Then what was the 'hunt' all about?? Zevran and Leliane talk about their marks as "it". Both do.

OldMan, you have to step back a bit, imo. She hunts them for the sole purpose of killing. She feels bad about it. So does Zevran. But his dialogues are not as open. He tells the PC that he "consoles himself with the fact that they needed killing." Why would a cold-blooded killer have to 'console' himself? There are many more instances of his regrets, but they don't come gushing out. You have to see them.

[Maria Caliban]

I missed this.

Sabriana wrote...

I guess I have to refresh your memory, Caliban. There were several instances on the old boards where Priestly insisted on riling I_B. Mayhap you don't remember. But I certainly do.

What are you responding to here?

Sabriana wrote...

Not the killing? Then what was the 'hunt' all about??

I assume she meant she enjoyed seducing people and getting them to drop their guard so she could kill them. Given as she often talks about 'making herself' what others desire, this would fit.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 01 mars 2010 - 08:15 .

[Sabriana]

Sorry. I had no idea. Your post perhaps? Didn't you ask me where I_B was so ticked off that she threatened to leave? If not, I apologize. My mistake.

[DalishRanger]

... Wow. This thread asploded a bit while I was gone. I'll have to catch up.

[Charsen]

Sabriana wrote...

Maximus, you still don't understand. It's not who's better, but why they are conceived so differently. I don't dislike Leliana. Not at all. But I do want to know why the two characters who are so much alike are viewed so differently.

I wonder about that too. I didn't take Leliana with me in my adventures, but I enjoyed her dialog and her personal quests. I thought she was an interesting character, and my Mage, who was quite religious, enjoyed her company as a fellow believer in the Maker. I regret not taking her to get the Ashes, I bet she had some great dialog there.

I may have missed it, but how did Leliana come to work with Marjolaine? Was it by choice, or by happenstance? This might be a difference, other than that, I assume the difference is Leliana's vision of the Maker and Zevran's no-apologies, no-regrets look on life. Both are interesting characters, I just had no need for two rogues, essentially.

[Herr Uhl]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

I guess I have to refresh your memory, Caliban. There were several instances on the old boards where Priestly insisted on riling I_B. Mayhap you don't remember. But I certainly do.

What are you responding to here?

I guess it's this:

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
Even David loves her, and at one point he even tried to persuade her to stay on.

Stay on? She posts almost every day.

[Sabriana]

Of course.Herr Uhl has to be cynical. I love it. Carry on. Where is my "shakes fist" hmm? I absolutely love your sense of humor.

But seriously, that is now, Priestly did p'o her something fierce back then. Way back then. I_B was really angry. A real WOW! thing.