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[DalishRanger]

The devs have said before that she's bisexual. I think the lesbian thing comes from lots of people romancing her as a female Warden, the fact her romance is bugged and she can "ninja love" you if you're a female Warden trying to romance one of the boys, and she's so girly. She might prefer women over men, but in the end she's attracted to both and is completely capable of falling in love with either gender.



And having romanced her four/five times as a male Warden... I can safely say she never tells him she's a lesbian or that she greatly prefers women. She doesn't hide the fact she swings both ways, but she never states an outright gender preference to a male Warden.

[Sabriana]

Zevran never hijacked this thread. He was an integral part of it. He was more or less pushed aside by Leliana grabbing hold of it completely and utterly.
However, I don't mind at all. As a matter of fact, I admit that the "Leliana" camp has given me food for though. She still decorates my PCs camp most of the time, but I do do see the points that other posters made about her.

The origin of this thread was the comparison between the two rogues, and the different treatment they received, despite being so similar. I feel educated. I still whish that 'hardening' her didn't result in her embracing part of her past again. It should make her more aware of herself, and her own personality. Not be pliable any longer, and not 'becoming' something just to please someone else.

Modifié par Sabriana, 08 mars 2010 - 08:00 .

[Maria Caliban]

Redem0 wrote...


I've read this on Tvtropes and I'm not quite sure if its true or not

"Leliana from Dragon Age is a lesbian, but when a male player character romances her, she essentially says this."

It's not true.

[Lenimph]

Leliana is such a hopeless romantic she doesn't even associate love with gender... atleast thats how I see it.

Although there might be a preference.
The "Is you fruit forbidden?" line response is different between males and females... if your a girl she doesnt snap back with "not everyone gets a bite." (she's stutters a bit more too). Right away I got the feeling playing as a male that she was being more protective, but that can be associated with all girls and guys regardless of preference. But she really does seem to like talking about those other forbidden fruits, and staring at Morrigan's "features"...(that's my fav party banter)

I say she likes girls more but just by a small amount. When it comes down to it she's in it for the love not the whatevers...

Modifié par Lenimph, 09 mars 2010 - 06:08 .

[EccentricSage]

OK, hearing that hardened Leliana leads an expedition in the Deep Roads definitely improves my view of her. The conversations with her about her past and Marjolain are so frustrating to me, that I couldn't stand the character afterwords. I really have no respect for people who don't think for themselves, and the way the whole hardening thing was set up, you're deciding who she is for her, or at least that's what the dialogue makes it seem like. I think the writer did a really weak job on that part of her dialogue. The fact Lel is poorly animated compared to Zev is probably also contributing... too often in conversations, her expressions ether look really exagerated and forced, or her expression is just placid and gives a very vavid impression of her. I didn't believe she was being sincere with me or that she really felt bad about anything, because she would SAY, very simply, that she feels bad about her past, but there was no sorrow or disguest in her voice and expression. Seriously creeps me out.



Also, maybe I missed some dialogue, but does she ever explain why she became a bard? I remember her mother died... How old was she again? Did she have a choice? All this seemed a bit unclear to me. I wish I could probe for more info with her like with Zev, and also provoke more emotion from her. Zevran, by contrast, surprised me with how raw his emotions actually are when they come to the surface. I felt his hurt. With Lel... I just felt put off because she says she was tortured, and regrets her past, but over all when she talks about the past, there's no pain in her voice or expression... she comes off like a bad actor on a low budget made for TV movie. Which made me think she's probably just manipulating me.

[Maria Caliban]

Lenimph wrote...

Leliana is such a hopeless romantic she doesn't even associate love with gender... atleast thats how I see it.

..snip..

I say she likes girls more but just by a small amount. When it comes down to it she's in it for the love not the whatevers...

I agree. Leliana gets tangled up in her emotions and is very much right in the middle of the Kindsy Scale.

Her different reactions to men and women are probably due to personal experiences. Whenever she talks about her past with men, it’s always sexual and they’re never named. On the other hand, she talks about her mother, Lady Cecilie, Marjolaine, and makes fun of Orlesian noblewomen she’s interacted with.

EccentricSage wrote...

I really have no respect for people who don't think for themselves, and the way the whole hardening thing was set up, you're deciding who she is for her, or at least that's what the dialogue makes it seem like. I think the writer did a really weak job on that part of her dialogue.

I don’t know if that’s a weak job, as it seems as though Leliana letting you make that decision was the intension. It did come off as Leliana going: “I’m all sorts of confused right now. My heart can’t make up its mind and my mind is drawing a blank, but, hey, YOU’VE got a good head on your shoulders. You seem to know what’s what. So, what do YOU think?”

One of the reasons I’m against hardening her is that it just seems to be Leliana taking up the mantle Marjolaine gave her. While her ‘softened’ viewpoint is heavily influenced by the Chantry and is a bit odd, it’s something Leliana picked for herself.

Also, maybe I missed some dialogue, but does she ever explain why she became a bard? I remember her mother died... How old was she again? Did she have a choice? All this seemed a bit unclear to me. I wish I could probe for more info with her like with Zev, and also provoke more emotion from her. Zevran, by contrast, surprised me with how raw his emotions actually are when they come to the surface. I felt his hurt. With Lel... I just felt put off because she says she was tortured, and regrets her past, but over all when she talks about the past, there's no pain in her voice or expression... she comes off like a bad actor on a low budget made for TV movie. Which made me think she's probably just manipulating me.

I see few similarities between Leliana and Zevran’s pasts. I think Leliana decided to become a bard because it was more interesting than being a noblewoman’s ornament. I doubt she was ever tortured or went hungry or despaired of her life.

The reason that she doesn’t talk about her past with regret would be that she doesn’t feel much regret about her past. She spent her life as a pawn in another person’s game, and enjoyed much of what she did.

[Emerald Melios]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I see few similarities between Leliana and Zevran’s pasts. I think Leliana decided to become a bard because it was more interesting than being a noblewoman’s ornament. I doubt she was ever tortured or went hungry or despaired of her life.

The reason that she doesn’t talk about her past with regret would be that she doesn’t feel much regret about her past. She spent her life as a pawn in another person’s game, and enjoyed much of what she did.

That's why I prefer to harden her personality: she's punishing herself for enjoying the life of a bard, and hiding behind a false persona that obviously was bringing her misery. Why else was she so eager to join you? She desperately needed to escape the cloister, and the Grey Wardens were her salvation.

[EccentricSage]

This all pretty much reaffirms why I hate her. *shrugs* An unsympathetic remorseless manipulator who was only using my warden as a means to her ends. She will mold herself in whatever way earns the approval or attention of influential people, because she's obsessed with being the center of attention. If Dristen could have known that at the beginning, he would have left her in Lothering.

[Tinnic]

Emerald Melios wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I see few similarities between Leliana and Zevran’s pasts. I think Leliana decided to become a bard because it was more interesting than being a noblewoman’s ornament. I doubt she was ever tortured or went hungry or despaired of her life.

The reason that she doesn’t talk about her past with regret would be that she doesn’t feel much regret about her past. She spent her life as a pawn in another person’s game, and enjoyed much of what she did.

That's why I prefer to harden her personality: she's punishing herself for enjoying the life of a bard, and hiding behind a false persona that obviously was bringing her misery. Why else was she so eager to join you? She desperately needed to escape the cloister, and the Grey Wardens were her salvation.

Then she's even more of moron then she generally comes across. But I don't really agree. She gave you a perfectly good reason as to why she left the cloister. She didn't think she was making a difference inside the cloister and with the blight coming, she felt she could make more of difference out of it. She was genuine in her beliefs and while the temple spirit during the Urn of the sacred ashes suggested that she was making up her visions, she was taken back but she defended them to even him. I don't think her life in the cloister was quite as miserable as you are making it sound and she never denied not enjoying being a bard. Although in one conversation she told Zevran that she prefers the hunt to the kill, with Zevran pointing out that without the kill the hunt just goes on forever. But she is confused and putty in the hands of the Warden, ready to be moulded in the Warden's image. If the Warden is good and kind, she/he will tell Leliana that she is free to make her own path. If she is not, she'll tell Leliana that she's a killer like Marjolaine, which I do not believe she is but that fact that she doesn't know her own mind is... a little annoying.

[Sarah1281]

If you harden her she says she was bored of the Chantry.

[Emerald Melios]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If you harden her she says she was bored of the Chantry.

Yeah, not miserable, but she definitely was bored with it and wanted some excitement.

[Tinnic]

Emerald Melios wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

If you harden her she says she was bored of the Chantry.

Yeah, not miserable, but she definitely was bored with it and wanted some excitement.

Now that I can believe given that, that's pretty much why she became a Bard in the first place. Still I don't think her belief was fake. 

[Lenimph]

"I believe that she believes in her vision,"



And that combined with boredom was her reason to leave the chantry. I also think part of her realized that the chantry was a bit foolish with their seclusion to other peoples ideas....

[MutantSpleen]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I see few similarities between Leliana and Zevran’s pasts. I think Leliana decided to become a bard because it was more interesting than being a noblewoman’s ornament. I doubt she was ever tortured or went hungry or despaired of her life.

The reason that she doesn’t talk about her past with regret would be that she doesn’t feel much regret about her past. She spent her life as a pawn in another person’s game, and enjoyed much of what she did.

I would disagree with that part. You did talk to her about Marjolaine betraying her.  She said that the Chevaliers got hold of her and did terrible things to her and all that awaited her was a shallow unmarked grave.  I am assuming they raped and tortured her and were going to kill her.  Unless your talking about being tortured like a tortured soul? Forgive me if I am misunderstanding your point.  I think Leliana has had some rough spots in her life, as much as Zevran. I just don' think Leliana looks for pity/sympathy about her past as much a Zevran. You can see Zev do that too becasue he has the best responses when you say you feel sorry for him. (Not bashing Zev, I love him but I do think he seeks attention just like Leliana does but just in a different way.)

[JamieCOTC]

I have to admit it took me a long time to really like Zev as a character. The first couple of times I had him in my camp, he would eventually turned on me in the end. For a while, I just killed him at the first meeting. In one of my more recent playthroughs I decided to give him another shot. I get that he had no childhood and had a sh*tty life all around, but I didn't really see much regret coming from him, w/ the one exception of course. In the end he does seem to be genuinely grateful for the second chance and acts like a wounded puppy desperately wanting to follow his new "kinder" master. To me, he doesn't seem to be so much conflicted as he is wounded, which is understandable.



Leliana is genuinely conflicted w/ her past even though she still "craves" the action and sees life as a game. If you take the time to talk to her about her "vision" you discover that her belief system is quite revolutionary (for the game world), almost of an Eastern or Pagan philosophy. I could even see her becoming a prophet.

[Zavrian]

Why does Leilana need justification?

[Liquidcz]

Because someone needed Zevran's justification, and that triggered an avalanche of justify this justify that threads. Nonsense, all of it.