766 réponses à ce sujet

[Gilsa]

Zev has different views on sex due to his upbringing. His marks know he's there to kill them which makes the sex take on a different meaning. It becomes a weapon or a bargaining tool that they use to get out of the situation. While it's not rape, what is it exactly? Consensual, but not quite consensual sex? The author of the other thread is grappling to put a finger on this. The first story Zev tells was just OK. He did let the woman go. The second time when he says next mark still had to die anyway, but why not spend your last hours in bliss? That's just his take on it. My reaction was that it was not a clean kill at all. If someone told you that you were going to die, but you can have sex if you want. Would your last thoughts be "yay, what a way to go out!" or would you use that time to keep trying to figure out how to get out of it while still having sex? It was in poor taste to have sex in the meantime. He was better off killing her quickly.



Leliana, while she's a sweetheart, is less trustworthy, imo, than Zevran because at least Zevran lets you know that he's there to kill you. Leliana admits to lying to you and admits to seducing targets and killing them (her marks don't see it coming so sex with Leliana has a different meaning than sex with Zevran). This is a mood-killer for me so the romances I have the hardest times with are Leliana and Zevran. They're both complicated characters and are quite rewarding to fans who appreciate that kind of depth. Morrigan and Alistar are very much what-you-see-is-what-you-get characters so there's less dissection over their words and actions apart from the events that tear them out of Warden's arms in the end.

[Sabriana]

Good going, Caliban. Nothing I could say would speak such a volume.

You are a pretender. You always present your views as fact. Go on. People are getting on to you or so I hope

.

Great job with the personal attack. Love it. It shows your true colors.

[brain_damage]

Can't you guys just leave the troll thread die? *sigh* It's like all of a sudden everybody turned into Isolde. "MAH ZEVRAAAAN" "MAH LELIAAANAAA" "TEAGAAAAN". Calm down, guys.

[ejoslin]

heh, you are perfectly welcome to not read or participate in any thread you deem unworthy.

[krylo]

ejoslin wrote...

heh, you are perfectly welcome to not read or participate in any thread you deem unworthy.

But then I'd never post.

[Creature 1]

Gilsa wrote...
Leliana, while she's a sweetheart, is less trustworthy, imo, than Zevran because at least Zevran lets you know that he's there to kill you. Leliana admits to lying to you and admits to seducing targets and killing them (her marks don't see it coming so sex with Leliana has a different meaning than sex with Zevran).

I think Zevran often had a similar MO to Leliana, and usually his marks would not see it coming. 

[Sabriana]

Please get out of my thread, brain damaged person. No one is forcing you to be here. Open your own thread if you so wish, but don't invade mine.

[ejoslin]

krylo wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

heh, you are perfectly welcome to not read or participate in any thread you deem unworthy.

But then I'd never post.

That would be bad.  You, sir, are NOT welcome to do the same 

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 février 2010 - 09:24 .

[Maria Caliban]

Sabriana wrote...

Good going, Caliban. Nothing I could say would speak such a volume.

The entire problem is that you felt the need to speak in the first place.

You always present your views as fact.

Yes, I always present my views as facts. Your insight into my character is as deep as it is subtle.

People are getting on to you or so I hope

I’ve posted on the DA forums for five years now. I’m pretty sure most people know the cut of my jib, but maybe you’re having a revelation. The scales have fallen from your eyes?

[Tirigon]

Sabriana wrote...

Ok. I'm a rabid Zevran fan-girl, and I am getting very tired of having to defend him to the homophobics and the one's who can't see their own thoughts in front of their eyes.

Leliana is a bard. She grew up in a wealthy household. She was never tortured or abused. She was not a slave her entire life. She choose to become a bard, and would do any- and everything to please the woman she loved.

She is very enthusiastic about her chosen life-style. She describes how she loved the 'hunt', the 'seduction' and the 'killing' of men.

She lived that way because she chose it. Not because she was a slave. Not because she had no other choice. She lies to the PC from the beginning on. No one forced her into anything. She fell for a woman, and did anything to please her. Unlike Zevran, she describes torture as being a factor.

After meeting Majorlaine, she describes how much she loved her life-style. Unlike Zevran, who reveals that he regrets many things, she practically gushes about her joy about being a bard. Why is it forgiveable to her, but Zevran gets condemned? I really would like some input here, thank you.

This is ..... interesting.

So what exactly are you trying to say?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Tirigon wrote...
This is ..... interesting.

So what exactly are you trying to say?

Welcome back!

She is saying that people shouldn't condemn Zevran without condemning Leliana. That's about it.

[Sabriana]

Oh please. You've posted for five years? I've been a member of the community for quite a long time myself. Just because you talkpost a lot doesn't make you more right than me.



Grow up.

[krylo]

ejoslin wrote...

krylo wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

heh, you are perfectly welcome to not read or participate in any thread you deem unworthy.

But then I'd never post.

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]

That would be bad.  You, sir, are NOT welcome to do the same [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

D'awwww.  I got the heart smiley...thing... I feel special.

Tirigon wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Ok. I'm a rabid Zevran fan-girl, and I am getting very tired of having to defend him to the homophobics and the one's who can't see their own thoughts in front of their eyes.

Leliana is a bard. She grew up in a wealthy household. She was never tortured or abused. She was not a slave her entire life. She choose to become a bard, and would do any- and everything to please the woman she loved.

She is very enthusiastic about her chosen life-style. She describes how she loved the 'hunt', the 'seduction' and the 'killing' of men.

She lived that way because she chose it. Not because she was a slave. Not because she had no other choice. She lies to the PC from the beginning on. No one forced her into anything. She fell for a woman, and did anything to please her. Unlike Zevran, she describes torture as being a factor.

After meeting Majorlaine, she describes how much she loved her life-style. Unlike Zevran, who reveals that he regrets many things, she practically gushes about her joy about being a bard. Why is it forgiveable to her, but Zevran gets condemned? I really would like some input here, thank you.

This is ..... interesting.

So what exactly are you trying to say?

She's trying to say that Leliana's life of crime isn't as justifiable as Zevran's.

Zevran never had a choice.  It was kill or be killed.  Eat or be eaten.  Straight from the age of seven.  He never knew anything else, and one would be hard pressed INDEED to find a seven year old capable of even grasping the idea of dying for his ideals, much less being brave enough to do so.  Everything Zevran did was under pain of death.  He was never fully responsible for his actions, anymore than a man who kills a burglar in self defense is guilty of murder.

Leliana, on the other hand was never forced to kill.  She killed because she loved Marjolaine and because she liked it.  She tortured people, with no threat to herself.  She seduced and murdered and spied, never under any duress.  Always with a calm thinking mind.  She is fully responsible for everything she did.

That's the argument, anyway.

[Tirigon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
This is ..... interesting.

So what exactly are you trying to say?

Welcome back!

Yea, back just to see you joined with Cerberus 
So sad. First you´re for Loghain, now for Cerberus, what will be next?!
One day we shall meet on the battlefield, mate.

She is saying that people shouldn't condemn Zevran without condemning Leliana. That's about it.

If you condemn them, you have to flame Alistair first..... Don´t ignore him!!!!!

[Creature 1]

Tirigon wrote...
If you condemn them, you have to flame Alistair first..... Don´t ignore him!!!!!

Alistair's the first one I flame.  Argh!  So annoying! 

[Sabriana]

krylo wrote....

Zevran never had a choice.  It was kill or be killed.  Eat or be eaten.  Straight from the age of seven.  He never knew anything else, and one would be hard pressed INDEED to find a seven year old capable of even grasping the idea of dying for his ideals, much less being brave enough to do so.  Everything Zevran did was under pain of death.  He was never fully responsible for his actions, anymore than a man who kills a burglar in self defense is guilty of murder.

Leliana, on the other hand was never forced to kill.  She killed because she loved Marjolaine and because she liked it.  She tortured people, with no threat to herself.  She seduced and murdered and spied, never under any duress.  Always with a calm thinking mind.  She is fully responsible for everything she did.

That's the argument, anyway.

It is. And yet, Leliana is not looked upon as harshly as Zevran. The man is a slave. He has been a slave all of his life. Leliana chose her life because she was in love with Majorlaine. Leliana is into women because that's  really her preferene. Zevran is into men because sex is only a pleasure. Like a good bottle of wine. Or a good game of chess.

[krylo]

Tirigon wrote...
If you condemn them, you have to flame Alistair first..... Don´t ignore him!!!!!

But Alistair's my favorite.  I try to romance him even with my male characters.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Tirigon wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
This is ..... interesting.

So what exactly are you trying to say?

Welcome back!

Yea, back just to see you joined with Cerberus 
So sad. First you´re for Loghain, now for Cerberus, what will be next?!
One day we shall meet on the battlefield, mate.

Maybe the architect?
And yea I am looking foward to this great battle.

Alistair had enough love / hate. I think it's time for the others to stand out.

[Tirigon]

Sabriana wrote...

It is. And yet, Leliana is not looked upon as harshly as Zevran. The man is a slave. He has been a slave all of his life. Leliana chose her life because she was in love with Majorlaine. Leliana is into women because that's  really her preferene. Zevran is into men because sex is only a pleasure. Like a good bottle of wine. Or a good game of chess.

Both are valid positions to take, I´d say.

Anyways, if it comes to hating, I prefer Morrigan. And Anora of course.

Zev and Leli can be used for a Foursome!!!!

[Tirigon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Maybe the architect?
And yea I am looking foward to this great battle.

Alistair had enough love / hate. I think it's time for the others to stand out.

You mean the Architect from Matrix? If yes, it´s a worthy opponent^^

[Cutlass Jack]

krylo wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
If you condemn them, you have to flame Alistair first..... Don´t ignore him!!!!!

But Alistair's my favorite.  I try to romance him even with my male characters.

I try to romance him even on my straight male characters.

[Tirigon]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

krylo wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
If you condemn them, you have to flame Alistair first..... Don´t ignore him!!!!!

But Alistair's my favorite.  I try to romance him even with my male characters.

I try to romance him even on my straight male characters.

I try to get him in a threesome with Urdnot Wrex and Garrus, while my PC watch with Liara in my arms.
But he keeps saying he is not into aliens, nor into males, nor into doing it in front of others. So it always ends with a completely normal night in his tent. Or in Leli´s or Zev´s, of course.

[Maria Caliban]

Sabriana wrote...

Oh please. You've posted for five years? I've been a member of the community for quite a long time myself. Just because you talkpost a lot doesn't make you more right than me.

I'll explain it to you. Slowly. With small words.

You said that 'my true colors' were coming through and ‘people are getting on to you.’ I pointed out that as I’ve posted for some time now. As such, many already have a good grasp of my personality.

And I agree, you being wrong has nothing to do with how long you’ve been in the community. What makes you wrong is that you started a troll thread for no other reason than that someone, somewhere insulted the painted elf.

If someone insults Dragon Age and it makes you angry, you don’t start pissy threads on the ME 2 forum.

If someone insults BioWare and it makes you angry, you don’t start pissy threads on the Bethesda forum.

If someone insults Zevran and it makes you angry, you don't stary pissy thread about Leliana.

This is a simple concept.

[krylo]

Tirigon wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

krylo wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
If you condemn them, you have to flame Alistair first..... Don´t ignore him!!!!!

But Alistair's my favorite.  I try to romance him even with my male characters.

I try to romance him even on my straight male characters.

I try to get him in a threesome with Urdnot Wrex and Garrus, while my PC watch with Liara in my arms.
But he keeps saying he is not into aliens, nor into males, nor into doing it in front of others. So it always ends with a completely normal night in his tent. Or in Leli´s or Zev´s, of course.

Really?

All I can get Wrex to say is "Shepard."

[Maria Caliban]

krylo wrote...

Zevran never had a choice.  It was kill or be killed.  Eat or be eaten.  Straight from the age of seven.  He never knew anything else, and one would be hard pressed INDEED to find a seven year old capable of even grasping the idea of dying for his ideals, much less being brave enough to do so.  Everything Zevran did was under pain of death.  He was never fully responsible for his actions, anymore than a man who kills a burglar in self defense is guilty of murder.

And that makes him an interesting character.

Leliana, on the other hand was never forced to kill.  She killed because she loved Marjolaine and because she liked it.  She tortured people, with no threat to herself.  She seduced and murdered and spied, never under any duress.  Always with a calm thinking mind.  She is fully responsible for everything she did.

And that makes her an interesting character.

OMG. You can like both! It's not a stupid competition!