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[KnightofPhoenix]

Weellll...Leliana went to the chantry not really because she regretted her life, but because she was betrayed by her love and fleeing the country. At least initially. Whatever regret came afterwards.

Leliana's character is very simple (at least the way I see her). She loves loving. And she is willing to do anything her love wants her to do. And she will end up loving what her love wants her to do. I think it's because she never knew her mother that she is desperate to love and being loved. She even described Marjolaine as almost being a mother figure.
 
The only time she stood up for anything for its own sake is the sacred ashes thing. Even if she loves the Warden, she will try to stop him ruining it. So in that issue, she is pretty sincere.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 février 2010 - 11:32 .

[RangerSG]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Weellll...Leliana went to the chantry not really because she regretted her life, but because she was betrayed by her love and fleeing the country. At least initially. Whatever regret came afterwards.

Leliana's character is very simple (at least the way I see her). She loves loving. And she is willing to do anything her love wants her to do. And she will end up loving what her love wants her to do. I think it's because she never knew her mother than she is desperate to love and being loved. She even described Marjolaine as almost being a mother figure.
 
The only time she stood up for anything for its own sake is the sacred ashes thing. Even if she loves the Warden, she will try to stop him ruining it. So in that issue, she is pretty sincere.

I agree with most of that analysis of her. Her heart remains untouched by most of what she's done because: 1) In Orlais the game is everything and 2) she's doing it for love.

She chooses the Ashes because she loves Andraste and the Maker most of all and her world makes no sense without them. Again, consistent with her character.

And her final act in an US ending is consistent with someone who thinks love matters more than anything as well.

I think she has a rather firm moral compass, to be fair. I don't think it's simply formed by her companion. But she's willing to bury her sentiments for love, yes. Her lines with the Desire Demon and the Trapped Templar in the Circle Tower also support this. I think they give a good clue to how she sees things. At first, she considers it a horror, but as she sees they really do 'care' for each other, she can't condemn it.

[Sabriana]

Well, except her comments about dogs, you know.

So, why did she join the bards? No one made her do that. It was all voluntarily What would have been her reason to live a live of murder, seduction, hunting, and torture?

[krylo]

Sabriana wrote...

Well, except her comments about dogs, you know.
So, why did she join the bards? No one made her do that. It was all voluntarily What would have been her reason to live a live of murder, seduction, hunting, and torture?

Love of Marjolaine.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

Sabriana wrote...

Well, except her comments about dogs, you know.
So, why did she join the bards? No one made her do that. It was all voluntarily What would have been her reason to live a live of murder, seduction, hunting, and torture?

I don't think we ever got an explanation on that. You can't say it was voluntary.

Edit: Yep she did what she did for Marjolaine, but we still don't know HOW exactly she joined the bars.

Modifié par DrunkDeadman, 26 février 2010 - 11:45 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

krylo wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Well, except her comments about dogs, you know.
So, why did she join the bards? No one made her do that. It was all voluntarily What would have been her reason to live a live of murder, seduction, hunting, and torture?

Love of Marjolaine.

Yep.

French women can be very persuasive

[Kenrae]

Sabriana wrote...

Well, except her comments about dogs, you know.
So, why did she join the bards? No one made her do that. It was all voluntarily What would have been her reason to live a live of murder, seduction, hunting, and torture?

Join the bards? They're not an organization. She was trained and molded by Marjolaine, that's all. There are many ways of being a slave, some people don't even know they're slaves.

Modifié par Kenrae, 26 février 2010 - 11:47 .

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

Kenrae wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Well, except her comments about dogs, you know.
So, why did she join the bards? No one made her do that. It was all voluntarily What would have been her reason to live a live of murder, seduction, hunting, and torture?

Join the bards? They're not an organization. She was trained and molded by Marjolaine, that's all. There are many ways of being a slave, some people don't even know they're slaves.

I believe Leliana mentioned that there were some bardic orders/organizations.

[Maria Caliban]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Weellll...Leliana went to the chantry not really because she regretted her life, but because she was betrayed by her love and fleeing the country. At least initially. Whatever regret came afterwards.

Leliana's character is very simple (at least the way I see her). She loves loving. And she is willing to do anything her love wants her to do. And she will end up loving what her love wants her to do. I think it's because she never knew her mother that she is desperate to love and being loved. She even described Marjolaine as almost being a mother figure.
 
The only time she stood up for anything for its own sake is the sacred ashes thing. Even if she loves the Warden, she will try to stop him ruining it. So in that issue, she is pretty sincere.

That's how I see it. Leliana is all sorts of messed up.

"I love Marjolaine. Marjolaine tells me to kill people. This makes her happy, so I'm happy killing people."

After you Marjolaine betrays her, she just replaces her with the Maker.

"I love Maker. The Maker tells me to be kind to people. This makes him happy, so I'm happy being nice to people."

When she leaves the Chantry, Marjolaine stikes and the Chantry isn't there to help her, so she turns to the PC. If the PC defeats Marjolaine, now it's:

"I love [PC Name]. Does the [PC Name] want me to stay the way I am? Okay, I love the Maker! I love being nice to people!

Does the [PC Name] want me to be what Marjolaine wanted? Okay, grrr! I love killing."

[Oak Tree Leaf]

Maria Caliban wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Weellll...Leliana went to the chantry not really because she regretted her life, but because she was betrayed by her love and fleeing the country. At least initially. Whatever regret came afterwards.

Leliana's character is very simple (at least the way I see her). She loves loving. And she is willing to do anything her love wants her to do. And she will end up loving what her love wants her to do. I think it's because she never knew her mother that she is desperate to love and being loved. She even described Marjolaine as almost being a mother figure.
 
The only time she stood up for anything for its own sake is the sacred ashes thing. Even if she loves the Warden, she will try to stop him ruining it. So in that issue, she is pretty sincere.

That's how I see it. Leliana is all sorts of messed up.

"I love Marjolaine. Marjolaine tells me to kill people. This makes her happy, so I'm happy killing people."

After you Marjolaine betrays her, she just replaces her with the Maker.

"I love Maker. The Maker tells me to be kind to people. This makes him happy, so I'm happy being nice to people."

When she leaves the Chantry, Marjolaine stikes and the Chantry isn't there to help her, so she turns to the PC. If the PC defeats Marjolaine, now it's:

"I love [PC Name]. Does the [PC Name] want me to stay the way I am? Okay, I love the Maker! I love being nice to people!

Does the [PC Name] want me to be what Marjolaine wanted? Okay, grrr! I love killing."

Wow I've never even looked at it like that.

Like a robot waiting to be programmed(no hate intended).

[CalJones]

Ha! You're right. Morrigan says she won't sit around like an empty sack waiting to be filled (in reference to Flemeth). Leliana, however, is an empty sack. She's like one of the girls off Dollhouse.

Perhaps the lack of strong parental figures in her life has left her desparate for approval, I don't know. She's definitely not right, though.

[krylo]

Hrm. Yes.



I think it may be her innate stepford wifeness that bothers me about her character. I usually just call her 'craaaaazy' and be done with it, but you've kinda summed up a lot of my issues with her.

[Gold Dragon]

Hmmmm.... In all this..... discussion, or whatever you want to call it, did anyone notice how much alike Leliana and Alistair are alike?

Alistair: "Do you want to hear that I like following? I Do." Party Banter with Morrigan in Lothering.

Leliana: "I love [PC Name]. Does the [PC Name] want me to stay the way I am? Okay, I love the Maker! I love being nice to people!

Does the [PC Name] want me to be what Marjolaine wanted? Okay, grrr! I love killing."  (Slight quoting from Maria's post above, happens when Leliana's bard-master is slain)

Both seem to enjoy having others make their decisions for them.....

Modifié par A Golden Dragon, 27 février 2010 - 12:22 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Oak Tree Leaf wrote...
Wow I've never even looked at it like that.

Like a robot waiting to be programmed(no hate intended).

Makes you feel powerful, doesn't it?

Nothing like having a femme fatale like her as your sidekick / tool.

[Maria Caliban]

Leliana is the best.

[AndreaDraco]

If I say Zevran is the best do you think we risk another war or you can agree that they are both the best?

[Maria Caliban]

AndreaDraco wrote...

If I say Zevran is the best do you think we risk another war or you can agree that they are both the best?

In Maria Continuity, Leliana, the PC, and Zevran all end up happily sharing a bed together until the very end.

[AndreaDraco]

A good ending.



In Andrea Continuity, I like to think that Leliana and Alistair are the only one who still have contacts with the PC and Zevran. But I must admit that PC and Zevran also thought fondly of Shale

[Gilsa]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Leliana is the best. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

Can't beat a woman that can serenade to you!

Modifié par Gilsa, 27 février 2010 - 12:49 .

[Masticetobbacco]

leliana chose to become a bard, but she eventually became disgusted after she suddenly realized what she had been doing all this time. She's a good person, or at least tries to be



zevran is just plain awesome. **** mother, bred into becoming an assasin. Zevran takes it like a real man, and works with what he has. Even at the face of death he puts on a smile and sees a positive light for everything

[KnightofPhoenix]

Since we mostly agree that Leliana is awesome, I suggest we celebrate with this:

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

This "Leliana chose to become a bard" is getting annoying. We are never told HOW and WHY she became a bard. Her backstory always switched from living with lady Cecile (sp?) straight to being a bard. Maybe she had a choice. Maybe she didn't.

[maxernst]

Maria Caliban wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Weellll...Leliana went to the chantry not really because she regretted her life, but because she was betrayed by her love and fleeing the country. At least initially. Whatever regret came afterwards.

Leliana's character is very simple (at least the way I see her). She loves loving. And she is willing to do anything her love wants her to do. And she will end up loving what her love wants her to do. I think it's because she never knew her mother that she is desperate to love and being loved. She even described Marjolaine as almost being a mother figure.
 
The only time she stood up for anything for its own sake is the sacred ashes thing. Even if she loves the Warden, she will try to stop him ruining it. So in that issue, she is pretty sincere.

That's how I see it. Leliana is all sorts of messed up.

"I love Marjolaine. Marjolaine tells me to kill people. This makes her happy, so I'm happy killing people."

After you Marjolaine betrays her, she just replaces her with the Maker.

"I love Maker. The Maker tells me to be kind to people. This makes him happy, so I'm happy being nice to people."

When she leaves the Chantry, Marjolaine stikes and the Chantry isn't there to help her, so she turns to the PC. If the PC defeats Marjolaine, now it's:

"I love [PC Name]. Does the [PC Name] want me to stay the way I am? Okay, I love the Maker! I love being nice to people!

Does the [PC Name] want me to be what Marjolaine wanted? Okay, grrr! I love killing."

That;'s a very funny way of putting it.  But it does point to a serious problem with comparing Leliana to Zevran--Leliana's very malleable.  Or maybe Leliana is just so inclined to tell people what they want to hear that it's hard to tell who the real Leliana is.  Whether she regrets her past or not depends on the player....but if the player wants, she's totally remorseful,  I never actually got the dialogue where she said she enjoyed hunting people down.  I guess everybody gets the Leliana they deserve.