212 réponses à ce sujet

[MutantSpleen]

It felt more real to me, duplicity, hard decisions, hurt feelings, nothing really black and white. I think that's the theme of Dragon Age though, everything is shades of grey.

[St Mael]

The dragon age cast is better by light years, there are too many reasons to it for me to actually waste so much time writing all of them on a forum. I have better things to do. But I'm sure there are also other people smart enough that they can tell good writing when they see it on these boards, some of which have already made valid points on this thread.

[Jarcander]

Dragon Age characters > Mass Effect characters. As many have mentioned, ME characters just don't have the same dept as DA characters. I'm sure Bioware could've done it, but their main focus was elsewhere for Mass Effect 2.

[Nozybidaj]

sagequeen wrote...

 ME is better by far.

I know it's sort of comparing apples to oranges, but I came to HATE dragon age.

i wanted to like it. i did. i REALLY did, but i just couldn't.

I HATED the way that everyone tried to punk you and you could do nothing about it (ha! jowan tricked you. oh hey! morrigan tricked you! oh hey! flemeth didn't REALLY die...on and on and on...) 

your decisions felt completely inconsequential (unlike mass effect). most of your DAO companions lie to you (as opposed to ME where they really can become loyal). and the forced decision at the end of DAO just annoyed me. i felt like the whole point of that game was to screw over the player.

ME, on the other hand, is brilliant writing from beginning to end, great characters, and a compelling, though not totally happy, story.

no comparison, imo

Um, wow.  Maybe you are talking about ME1?

Because in ME2 Shepard is a complete doormat.  Want to talk about screwing over the player?  Don't want to for for a terrorist organization?  Too bad.  Want to continue working with your old crew?  Too bad.  Want to reconnect with your Spectre origins and get back in on the Council's good side?  Too bad.  Don't want to have to work with a group of terrorists and criminals?  Too bad.  Want to talk to TIM about all the pain he caused in your life, because you know, that might have had an impact on Shep?  Too bad.  Want to express a warm emotion when you LI is pouring her heart out about how she "couldn't let you go"?  Too bad.  Want to call TIM out about all the out right lies he tells you throughout the game?  Too bad.  Want to keep the collector base but don't want to give it to TIM?  Too bad. 

Nothing Shep does in ME2 has any effect on where the story takes you and even all these "big choices" we supposedly made in ME1 only amounted to a few lines of random dialogue here and there.

Shep might as well have been a blank automaton through most of the game.
Everything you said is diametrically opposed to my impressions of the two games.

[FlintlockJazz]

Nozybidaj wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

 ME is better by far.

I know it's sort of comparing apples to oranges, but I came to HATE dragon age.

i wanted to like it. i did. i REALLY did, but i just couldn't.

I HATED the way that everyone tried to punk you and you could do nothing about it (ha! jowan tricked you. oh hey! morrigan tricked you! oh hey! flemeth didn't REALLY die...on and on and on...) 

your decisions felt completely inconsequential (unlike mass effect). most of your DAO companions lie to you (as opposed to ME where they really can become loyal). and the forced decision at the end of DAO just annoyed me. i felt like the whole point of that game was to screw over the player.

ME, on the other hand, is brilliant writing from beginning to end, great characters, and a compelling, though not totally happy, story.

no comparison, imo

Um, wow.  Maybe you are talking about ME1?

Because in ME2 Shepard is a complete doormat.  Want to talk about screwing over the player?  Don't want to for for a terrorist organization?  Too bad.  Want to continue working with your old crew?  Too bad.  Want to reconnect with your Spectre origins and get back in on the Council's good side?  Too bad.  Don't want to have to work with a group of terrorists and criminals?  Too bad.  Want to talk to TIM about all the pain he caused in your life, because you know, that might have had an impact on Shep?  Too bad.  Want to express a warm emotion when you LI is pouring her heart out about how she "couldn't let you go"?  Too bad.  Want to call TIM out about all the out right lies he tells you throughout the game?  Too bad.  Want to keep the collector base but don't want to give it to TIM?  Too bad. 

Nothing Shep does in ME2 has any effect on where the story takes you and even all these "big choices" we supposedly made in ME1 only amounted to a few lines of random dialogue here and there.

Shep might as well have been a blank automaton through most of the game.
Everything you said is diametrically opposed to my impressions of the two games.

This is actually the big problem for DAO, both games need to force you down certain plot avenues, however DAO kind of rubs your face in it even more.  ME kinda says "Yeah, you can make changes to some aspects of Commander Shepard, but there are fundamental parts of him you can't change and they will lead alot of the plot" whereas DAO says "You can create your character however you want, but we are then going to force people on you that alot of your characters will hate and then rub the fact that you can't kill them repeatedly in your face".  Many of it felt contrived, for instance the joining ceremony for the gray wardens, instead of killing off Daveth and Jorey they should have just assumed you wanted to join it instead of trying to contrive reasons that just end up making it even worse.

[NICKjnp]

I'd like to see the characters from DAO take on the characters from ME2 in the Earth's Urban Combat Championship!

[FlintlockJazz]

NICKjnp wrote...

I'd like to see the characters from DAO take on the characters from ME2 in the Earth's Urban Combat Championship!

This I would pay to see!

[NICKjnp]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

I'd like to see the characters from DAO take on the characters from ME2 in the Earth's Urban Combat Championship!

This I would pay to see!

Grunt vs. Sten (big and strong types)
Shale vs. Legion (non-organics)
Morrigan vs. Morinth (the most similar characters between the games)
Oghren vs. Jacob (drunks)
Lelliana vs. Jack (both "touched" in the head)
Rabbit vs. Urz  from Tuchanka (best match up ever)
Zevran vs. Thane (both assasins... and both annoying)
Allistair vs. Garrus (the whining babies match up)
Wynne vs. Samara (both grumpy and old)

[MutantSpleen]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

 ME is better by far.

I know it's sort of comparing apples to oranges, but I came to HATE dragon age.

i wanted to like it. i did. i REALLY did, but i just couldn't.

I HATED the way that everyone tried to punk you and you could do nothing about it (ha! jowan tricked you. oh hey! morrigan tricked you! oh hey! flemeth didn't REALLY die...on and on and on...) 

your decisions felt completely inconsequential (unlike mass effect). most of your DAO companions lie to you (as opposed to ME where they really can become loyal). and the forced decision at the end of DAO just annoyed me. i felt like the whole point of that game was to screw over the player.

ME, on the other hand, is brilliant writing from beginning to end, great characters, and a compelling, though not totally happy, story.

no comparison, imo

Um, wow.  Maybe you are talking about ME1?

Because in ME2 Shepard is a complete doormat.  Want to talk about screwing over the player?  Don't want to for for a terrorist organization?  Too bad.  Want to continue working with your old crew?  Too bad.  Want to reconnect with your Spectre origins and get back in on the Council's good side?  Too bad.  Don't want to have to work with a group of terrorists and criminals?  Too bad.  Want to talk to TIM about all the pain he caused in your life, because you know, that might have had an impact on Shep?  Too bad.  Want to express a warm emotion when you LI is pouring her heart out about how she "couldn't let you go"?  Too bad.  Want to call TIM out about all the out right lies he tells you throughout the game?  Too bad.  Want to keep the collector base but don't want to give it to TIM?  Too bad. 

Nothing Shep does in ME2 has any effect on where the story takes you and even all these "big choices" we supposedly made in ME1 only amounted to a few lines of random dialogue here and there.

Shep might as well have been a blank automaton through most of the game.
Everything you said is diametrically opposed to my impressions of the two games.

This is actually the big problem for DAO, both games need to force you down certain plot avenues, however DAO kind of rubs your face in it even more.  ME kinda says "Yeah, you can make changes to some aspects of Commander Shepard, but there are fundamental parts of him you can't change and they will lead alot of the plot" whereas DAO says "You can create your character however you want, but we are then going to force people on you that alot of your characters will hate and then rub the fact that you can't kill them repeatedly in your face".  Many of it felt contrived, for instance the joining ceremony for the gray wardens, instead of killing off Daveth and Jorey they should have just assumed you wanted to join it instead of trying to contrive reasons that just end up making it even worse.

I felt all of the origin stories gave you pretty good reasons for wanting or forcing you to join the Grey Wardens.  You could not make any character you wanted, all the characters had one of the six origin stories that tied them into the plot.

Not really following your problem with the joining ceremony though, the point was to show that Wardens have to make a huge sacrifice and some die in the process and some decide that the price is too high to pay, but there is no turning back.

[slackbheep]

DA:Os characters felt more developed as a whole, though I think that was mostly to do with the huge amount of party banter coupled with what felt like a longer more complete "quest". ME2 on the other hand felt like playing a sequel in a trilogy, with little in the way of closure. All that said, ME2 wins overall, in my opinion.

[Ulysseslotro]

XX55XX wrote...

Which set of characters do you prefer over the other? Dragon Age's, or Mass Effect's?

As much as I liked Dragon Age and its writing, I didn't really like any of the characters whatsoever. The only exceptions were Oghren and Dog. The rest of them... were pretty meh.

In comparison, the writing in Mass Effect wasn't quite up to par with Dragon Age, but I liked the characters far more as a whole. They simply struck me as more memorable... more funny and far less archtypical than Dragon Age's characters.

Overall, I like Mass Effect more as a universe, simply because Dragon Age borrows a little too much medieval-esque fantasy for its own good.

I apologize for my poor analysis, but it's getting a little late, and I need to prepare for my evening bath.

I liked Morrigan quest the best.  Defeating a dragon and all the cool animation that went into that is awesome.  Took a screenshot of me on the dragons neck striking its head and made that my screensaver hehe.  There are some great moments in that game.  I liked the political intrigue in that game more.  I also liked the story backgrounds better.  Mage tower was semi-prison by Templars.  Demons possessing mages due to some ancient religious war.  The Dreamworld, fighting dragons like Morrigans mother. And the religion was much better portrayed then say hanar "enkindlers"  Having one Hanar on the presidium in ME1 preaching and one news report is hardly a portrayal of Religion at all in the game.  It is very religiousless in comparison to Dragon Age.  So when they threw in Samara the religious fundamentalist who caresses her body like a prostitute I was very confused.

I think Samara was probably the most infamous character.  But if I had to choose a few characters who wasn't memorable it would be Jacob, Wynne, Sten.  I think Jacob will only be remember by the infamy of his father's actions.  Sten was this big ugly dude with dreads.  That is pretty sad when your haircut has more personality then you do.  It is the only thing I remember about him.  Wynne she is an old lady and that doesn't really appeal to me.  So seeing the not so wise woman who continues to fight by being possessed by an angel was awkward.  Samara however was even worse then that.  An old lady religious fanatic in a universe very sparse of religion who caresses her breasts when idle.  Its like they took Great Gam Gam from Beerfest and threw her in ME2 just for fun.  Samara is the character I most want to forget because she is like Alice in Wonderland.

The characters who gave me the most laughs where Oghren hitting on Wynne and Alistair banter, Joker & Edi, Mordin, Donelly, Miranda 'you ass', Jake 'are we still recruiting', Garrus 'reach', Renegade Shep from ME2 all gave me laughs.  So overall I like ME2 characters better because they made me laugh alot more.

Modifié par Ulysseslotro, 02 mars 2010 - 06:21 .

[ODST 3]

Barquiel wrote...

ODST 3 wrote...

Morrigan was a fail of a character. So annoying but no option to kill.

I think Morrigan isn't killable because she'll (or her baby) return in DA2 (= Mass Effect/Liara)

What about all those weak-ass epilogues on the end that seemed to finish off your character's story?

[ODST 3]

sagequeen wrote...

 your decisions felt completely inconsequential (unlike mass effect). most of your DAO companions lie to you (as opposed to ME where they really can become loyal). and the forced decision at the end of DAO just annoyed me. i felt like the whole point of that game was to screw over the player.

Well put. Initially I think it's immersive to take control from the player, make them a bit weak. But by the time you're a badass Grey Warden, why are you stil everyone's ****? Maybe it had something to do with me being a **** Dalish.

[ODST 3]

NICKjnp wrote...

I'd like to see the characters from DAO take on the characters from ME2 in the Earth's Urban Combat Championship!

It would be a hilarious massacre. You'd only need one ME character to waste the entire fleet of DA pvssies.

[Tankkiller1337]

ODST 3 wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

 your decisions felt completely inconsequential (unlike mass effect). most of your DAO companions lie to you (as opposed to ME where they really can become loyal). and the forced decision at the end of DAO just annoyed me. i felt like the whole point of that game was to screw over the player.

Well put. Initially I think it's immersive to take control from the player, make them a bit weak. But by the time you're a badass Grey Warden, why are you stil everyone's ****? Maybe it had something to do with me being a **** Dalish.

Well, somebody who calls his self ODST or HALO lost his reputation already from the start. No point in arguing with you...

[Nozybidaj]

FlintlockJazz wrote...
This is actually the big problem for DAO, both games need to force you down certain plot avenues, however DAO kind of rubs your face in it even more.  ME kinda says "Yeah, you can make changes to some aspects of Commander Shepard, but there are fundamental parts of him you can't change and they will lead alot of the plot" whereas DAO says "You can create your character however you want, but we are then going to force people on you that alot of your characters will hate and then rub the fact that you can't kill them repeatedly in your face". 

/shrug When I poured the dragon blood on the sacred ashes and I got attacked by my own squad mates for it, and I got to take out my huge *** sword and cut them to pieces that didn't really feel like the game "rubbing it in my face".  Quite the opposite in fact.

When I spend the whole game trying to find dialogue options to tell TIM, Miranda, and Jacob off for being terrorists that killed my squad and caused great emotional pain for my character and finding very few of those options and even when I do get an option they just brush it aside and continue on like nothing happened, that feels like the game rubbing it in my face.  "You have no choice"

I think I'm seeing more 'ardent defending' of ME2 going on here than actual critical analysis of the two games.

[ninnisinni97]

Yantze wrote...

For me a few of the DA characters were just outright annoying. Alistair and Morrigan both made me want to destroy them. I liked all the ME2 characters on the other hand. DA as people have already wrote was deeper in character development though. There was so much more dialogue and banter. For 3 they really need to bring that back. I was sad I could talk to Garrus like twice before he had to do some calibrations for an eternity.

Haha, yeah, I too thought it was very strange (and sad) to see one of the most interesting characters having so little to say, and so much calibrations to do! Seriously, it was like two conversations at the beginning, and then a few at the end, and that was it...

[ODST 3]

Tankkiller1337 wrote...

ODST 3 wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

 your decisions felt completely inconsequential (unlike mass effect). most of your DAO companions lie to you (as opposed to ME where they really can become loyal). and the forced decision at the end of DAO just annoyed me. i felt like the whole point of that game was to screw over the player.

Well put. Initially I think it's immersive to take control from the player, make them a bit weak. But by the time you're a badass Grey Warden, why are you stil everyone's ****? Maybe it had something to do with me being a **** Dalish.

Well, somebody who calls his self ODST or HALO lost his reputation already from the start. No point in arguing with you...

You humans are all racist!

Seriously, I made this name years ago before ME 1 even came out. Halo's fun. Sue me. I know the story isn't anything to write home about.

[Merilsell]

Nozybidaj wrote...

ODST 3 wrote...

Morrigan was a fail of a character. So annoying but no option to kill.

I will agree that ME2 is better in one way.  I can easily kill off any and all characters I feel are annoying.

Yup. Miranda died in mine. I shared a few tears....of joy.

[Lord Atlia]

There were a lot of things I did not like about how the PC was treated by the NPCs in DA:O and the NPCs in general. First the approval/disapproval system was lame and forced people to pander to the NPCs ideologies if they wanted 100% with all characters. Second I believe that the ME characters are more real characters where as the DA:O characters are standard archtypes given really good or just really long stories and histories. Third I felt that despite my PC making all the choices I was never really the leader, none of the other characters deferred to my authority and while that is realistic given the scenario and is the same thing you would find playing D&D, I like when playing games to know I am the paragon of awesome, like Shepard, or Kratos, or Master Chief, I don't want to be just some dude. Finally to brew on my third point none of the NPCs in general gave the PC the respect he/she deserved and all the choices I was given never really did anything (other than what army you got) plus even though I had all these choices they were all minor, SPOILERS I am still pissed I saved Arl Eamon's entire family and he wouldn't release Jowan or that a blood mage or other evil character couldn't usurp the throne of Feralden, I always felt that my hero was kind of a tool.

[FlintlockJazz]

Nozybidaj wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...
This is actually the big problem for DAO, both games need to force you down certain plot avenues, however DAO kind of rubs your face in it even more.  ME kinda says "Yeah, you can make changes to some aspects of Commander Shepard, but there are fundamental parts of him you can't change and they will lead alot of the plot" whereas DAO says "You can create your character however you want, but we are then going to force people on you that alot of your characters will hate and then rub the fact that you can't kill them repeatedly in your face". 

/shrug When I poured the dragon blood on the sacred ashes and I got attacked by my own squad mates for it, and I got to take out my huge *** sword and cut them to pieces that didn't really feel like the game "rubbing it in my face".  Quite the opposite in fact.

When I spend the whole game trying to find dialogue options to tell TIM, Miranda, and Jacob off for being terrorists that killed my squad and caused great emotional pain for my character and finding very few of those options and even when I do get an option they just brush it aside and continue on like nothing happened, that feels like the game rubbing it in my face.  "You have no choice"

I'm talking about Morrigan and Alistair, I know there are set places you can kill a couple of NPCs at thank you.  Was going to put some better explanation as to why I felt that way but considering you ended with this:

Nozybidaj wrote...
I think I'm seeing more 'ardent defending' of ME2 going on here than actual critical analysis of the two games.

I don't think there's any point, since obviously anyone who disagrees with you is 'ardently defending' and not at all allowed to have a different opinion from yours, amirite?

[Booglarize]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

This is actually the big problem for DAO, both games need to force you down certain plot avenues, however DAO kind of rubs your face in it even more.  ME kinda says "Yeah, you can make changes to some aspects of Commander Shepard, but there are fundamental parts of him you can't change and they will lead alot of the plot" whereas DAO says "You can create your character however you want, but we are then going to force people on you that alot of your characters will hate and then rub the fact that you can't kill them repeatedly in your face".  Many of it felt contrived, for instance the joining ceremony for the gray wardens, instead of killing off Daveth and Jorey they should have just assumed you wanted to join it instead of trying to contrive reasons that just end up making it even worse.

I don't know, I went with a human noble origin story in Dragon Age: Origins, and was eventually able to kill Howe, which was very satisfying. Also, I think every player gets the option of killing Loghain regardless of what else they've done in the game (I let Alistair take him out, and it was one of the sweetest moments of the game for me). And you can kill Zevran too instead of letting him join his party after his failed attempt to assassinate you, though I kept him around. I thought DA:O did a much better job in terms of allowing you some freedoms and actually letting you get back at some of the people you grew to despise over the game. There are some unchangeable plot points, true, but DA;O's didn't irk me as much as ME2's did. 

[FlintlockJazz]

Booglarize wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

This is actually the big problem for DAO, both games need to force you down certain plot avenues, however DAO kind of rubs your face in it even more.  ME kinda says "Yeah, you can make changes to some aspects of Commander Shepard, but there are fundamental parts of him you can't change and they will lead alot of the plot" whereas DAO says "You can create your character however you want, but we are then going to force people on you that alot of your characters will hate and then rub the fact that you can't kill them repeatedly in your face".  Many of it felt contrived, for instance the joining ceremony for the gray wardens, instead of killing off Daveth and Jorey they should have just assumed you wanted to join it instead of trying to contrive reasons that just end up making it even worse.

I don't know, I went with a human noble origin story in Dragon Age: Origins, and was eventually able to kill Howe, which was very satisfying. Also, I think every player gets the option of killing Loghain regardless of what else they've done in the game (I let Alistair take him out, and it was one of the sweetest moments of the game for me). And you can kill Zevran too instead of letting him join his party after his failed attempt to assassinate you, though I kept him around. I thought DA:O did a much better job in terms of allowing you some freedoms and actually letting you get back at some of the people you grew to despise over the game. There are some unchangeable plot points, true, but DA;O's didn't irk me as much as ME2's did. 

Yeah, it was just how certain parts were handled that kind of ruined it for me, I just have certain issues with how the plot was handled.  Also, I felt let down by the Origin stories, which should have in my opinion had a greater impact on the story than they did, loved them while I did them but then they end and you go into the Gray Warden main plotline which just doesn't hold up as well.  Personal opinion, played DAO to death and loved it, but it did not live up to my expectations as I had hoped.

[Nozybidaj]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

I don't think there's any point, since obviously anyone who disagrees with you is 'ardently defending' and not at all allowed to have a different opinion from yours, amirite?

You can have opinions all you want, doesn't bother me in the least. /shrug