187 réponses à ce sujet

[SurfaceBeneath]

TheTrooper1138 wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Wait, there are people out there that seriously think the first KoTOR is better than the second? Really?

I think most people find that, since it just is better...

My experiences on the internet have told me quite otherwise.

I do agree however that a lot of bull**** is being introduced into the Star Wars universe by some crappy authors, but I would count the authors of KotOR 2 among them... 

Did you seriously just call Chris Avellone, the primary writer for Planescape: Torment a crappy writer? This cannot end well for you.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 02 mars 2010 - 03:49 .

[Grand_Commander13]

And never mind that they do a lot more than telekinesis... There's clairvoyance (all three movies), precognition (ESB, RotJ), telepathy (ESB), mind reading (RotJ), mind control (ANH, RotJ), freaking choking fools with your mind (ANH, ESB), spontaneous generation of what seems to be electricity (RotJ), super-human leaps (ESB), an afterlife (ESB, RotJ, plus ANH if you count the mysterious disappearances of Obi-Wan and Yoda).

If you admit things written about the movies well before the prequels you get battle meditation, both Palpatine's and the negative application of battle meditation unconsciously practiced by the pilot of X-Wing.

But I think even without battle meditation their powers are a little more grandiose than "merely" making things move with a thought. Special effects just weren't as good back then, and flashy heroes less necessary to sell a movie (the Jedi manner seems to reflect the humble martial arts champion archetype of eastern storytelling).

[TheTrooper1138]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

TheTrooper1138 wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Wait, there are people out there that seriously think the first KoTOR is better than the second? Really?

I think most people find that, since it just is better...

My experiences on the internet have told me quite otherwise.

really? Mine didn't..

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

I do agree however that a lot of bull**** is being introduced into the Star Wars universe by some crappy authors, but I would count the authors of KotOR 2 among them... 

Did you seriously just call Chris Avellone, the primary writer for Planescape: Torment a crappy writer? Now them's fighting words

never played it, so I can only judge from KotOR 2 and that one sucked...

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

And never mind that they do a lot more than telekinesis... There's clairvoyance (all three movies), precognition (ESB, RotJ), telepathy (ESB), mind reading (RotJ), mind control (ANH, RotJ), freaking choking fools with your mind (ANH, ESB), spontaneous generation of what seems to be electricity (RotJ), super-human leaps (ESB), an afterlife (ESB, RotJ, plus ANH if you count the mysterious disappearances of Obi-Wan and Yoda).
If you admit things written about the movies well before the prequels you get battle meditation, both Palpatine's and the negative application of battle meditation unconsciously practiced by the pilot of X-Wing.
But I think even without battle meditation their powers are a little more grandiose than "merely" making things move with a thought. Special effects just weren't as good back then, and flashy heroes less necessary to sell a movie (the Jedi manner seems to reflect the humble martial arts champion archetype of eastern storytelling).

you make some good points, but most of what you mentioned (expect the super human jumping/moving powers and the choking/lightning maybe) would be covered by Parapsychology... I may not believe in that stuff, but I still would not put it in the same category as magic... 
But I guess my example was not the best one, what I was trying to say however, was that I don't like the fact, that the concept of the Force is changed all the time. I think they should stick to what we learn in the original trilogy about the Force and neither KotOR 2 nor the prequels for that matter do.
When Lucas created that concept in the original Star Wars films, he was clearly inspired by some philosophic and religious concepts (Buddhism, Taoism too maybe), but in the prequels and other outputs the Force is more and more being trivialized.. that midichlorian stuff in Episode 1 for example was so damn ridiculous, it just broke the whole idea of the Force, that the OT suggested. And KotOR 2 also breaks that idea/concept and doesn't even give good reasons for it. If they could explain that with Star Wars logic - OK, why the hell not, but they can't/don't, so therefore I just consider it poor writing. Had they really put some thoughts into that and made it seem LOGICAL (again from a SW point of view) to me, then I might have embraced the idea, but as it is, it just is some unfinished idea, that doesn't make sense with what we know of the Force from the OT...

[Console Cowboy]

i really don't see how the Exile contradicts anything the OT established about the Force.

[Ryzaki]

And all you guys have given me the urge to replay KOTOR.



Oh beautiful Carth

The beginning of BioWare's fetish with dead wife syndrome.

[BatarianBob]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Wait, there are people out there that seriously think the first KoTOR is better than the second? Really?

Shouldn't be much of a surprise.  People tend to like games that are finished.

Philistines... All of you! KoTOR2, despite all of the myriad of problems that came about from its less than 12 month development cycle had a story and characters far and away superior to the first.

What story?

[TheTrooper1138]

Ryzaki wrote...

And all you guys have given me the urge to replay KOTOR.

Oh beautiful Carth
The beginning of BioWare's fetish with dead wife syndrome.

how I hated that guy... seriously, why are all the LIs for female characters such douches? Carth, Kaidan, Jacob... 

Taranatar9 wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Wait, there are people out there that seriously think the first KoTOR is better than the second? Really?

Shouldn't be much of a surprise.  People tend to like games that are finished.

Philistines... All of you! KoTOR2, despite all of the myriad of problems that came about from its less than 12 month development cycle had a story and characters far and away superior to the first.

What story?

exactly... 

[Darth Drago]

darthcommander wrote...

Did anyone else notice some similarities?

You mean how:
-Your Shepard looks more evil the more evil you are, same thing with KOTOR2.
-Illium resembles Telos. As well as Coruscant, though not in KOTOR2
-In ME2 there is The Citadel a huge space station in KOTOR2 on Telos you arrive and have a final battle at Citadel Station.
-KOTOR 2 The Sith Lords was made by another company while Mass Effect 2 feels like it was made by a different company.
-Zaeed Massani is similar Canderous Ordo.
-Shepard is an exile from the Alliance, Spectres and friends. The character you play in Sith Lords is generally named “the Exile”.
-ME2 feels unfinished with a severe lack of side quests, KOTOR2 was unfinished yet pushed out the door.
-In ME2 you have the Illusive Man controlling your path in KOTOR 2 you have Kreia
-In chapter 1 of the game, In ME2 you start the game in a ship in bad condition (ok an understatement) and in KOTOR2 you start the game in a ship that needs serious fixing.
-In chapter 2 of the game Shepard wakes in a med/lab under attack and the same thing happens in KOTOR2.
-In ME2 you go to various locations to recruit people, the same thing happens in KOTOR2.

-?- In ME2 you have loyalty quests and I’m certain that in KOTOR2 you had similar quests for you companions.

I’m sure I can find more if I spent some more time on it looking….


Could it be Mass Effect 2 is made by the same developers/creators of KOTOR 2? *cue Twilight Zone theme music*

Modifié par Darth Drago, 02 mars 2010 - 04:55 .

[ImperialOperative]

Darth Drago wrote...

darthcommander wrote...

Did anyone else notice some similarities?

I’m sure I can find more if I spent some more time on it looking….

Could it be Mass Effect 2 is made by the same developers/creators of KOTOR 2? *cue Twilight Zone theme music*

Broski you're a real good detective, a genuine Sherlock Homes.

[SurfaceBeneath]

TheTrooper1138 wrote...

never played it, so I can only judge from KotOR 2 and that one sucked...

Consider it. Most people, both on this board and otherwise, consider Planescape: Torment to be the greatest story ever told in a video game.

[Sigma Tauri]

Taranatar9 wrote...
Shouldn't be much of a surprise.  People tend to like games that are finished.

Or just easier to swallow.

KoTOR 2 felt more ambitious than KoTOR 1 and had more complex characters, but the story depresses me. At least KoTOR 1 I can turn off any other emotion other than epic/ecstatic/nerdgasmic.

[itsdynamitebaby]

If they gave biotics lightsabers then the similarities would probably be like a slap in the face. Anyway, to add to the comparison. First mission KOTOR2. . . Peragus: mining droids programmed to run amok, "mining" organics. Must escape to ship . . . First mission ME2 . . . Cerberus Facility: Mechs programmed to run amok killing all personnel. Must escape to ship.

I guess the killer robot routine is the number one "go to" idea from the sci-fi handbook.

[Michel1986]

TheTrooper1138 wrote...

no, KotOR 2 sucked

Yeah it sucked hard, waste of money for a unfinished game. After 3 times playing to the end it didnt feel i played a story (like Kotor 1). With older ATI Cards the game crashed every 15-20 min, no single patch whas released for that. I didn't test it on my HD 4870 that i got +/- 2 years ago .... but that game is **** anyway.

Modifié par Michel1986, 02 mars 2010 - 08:58 .

[DipCheese83]

BioWare didn't develop KOTOR 2 did they? I thought it was Obsidian or something. I noticed a big similarity with KOTOR 1 and ME1 though, but it's commonly known that BioWare likes to recycle their storylines.

[Nick Fox]

Kotor 2 wasnt all that bad imo, I kind of liked it but the story was pretty weak in that one though (not so much better in ME 2, rather weak there as well). The game itself is fun and have depth (even more than Kotor 1 i belive in some regards). Could it been done better? Sure but to me its not all that bad as some think. Obsidaian dint really drop the ball but it was a bit rushed and thats to bad. They didnt change the game mechanics so if one had played Kotor you got into the game right away. Some bugs and the story is what drags it down a bit, but it isnt due to any changes in the gamemechanics.

Yes there are similarities indeed when it comes to comparing ME2 and Kotor 2 for starters the "dead" and how you wake up in Kotor 2 and the timeline change is there. Many other small things too imo.
Noteable is the mentor thing, TIM/Kreia and the fact that you dont know if you can trust them. There are differences between the two becouse of the known fact about Cerberus but the characters are similar.

Modifié par Nick Fox, 02 mars 2010 - 09:24 .

[Balerion84]

darthcommander wrote...

Did anyone else notice some similarities?  

Yes, they are both awesome.

[Tazzmission]

why is kotorII even discussed here bioware didnt make it it was obsidine or however it is spelled

[Taiko Roshi]

MajorStranger wrote...

Kotor 2 was made by Obsidian, not Bioware. Don't ever insult Bioware again!

You must be confused. Obsidian is by far the better developer. They have always improved the BW games that they have developed. Alpha Protocol is going to knock ME 2 out of the park and lets not forget that FO:Vegas will crush DA:O.  Don't ever insult Obsidian again!

[condiments1]

Kreia>>>>>>>entire KOTOR cast combined.



Honestly, without the "Twist" in the original KOTOR no one would be raving how amazing the story is.



"Collect the galaxy maps to chase bad guy before he gets to evil ancient machine building station"



In actuality KOTOR1 and ME1 hold far more in common then their sequels with their 'RACE TO THE FINISH' storylines involving ancient societies. If sequels hold anything in common its that they are generally far more nuanced and interesting narrative wise with great gameplay improvements.



Too bad the KOTOR2 was so rushed though.

[Tazzmission]

Taiko Roshi wrote...

MajorStranger wrote...

Kotor 2 was made by Obsidian, not Bioware. Don't ever insult Bioware again!

You must be confused. Obsidian is by far the better developer. They have always improved the BW games that they have developed. Alpha Protocol is going to knock ME 2 out of the park and lets not forget that FO:Vegas will crush DA:O.  Don't ever insult Obsidian again!

........ please  im a huge star wars nerd and trust me kotor2 was not even good man. obsidian cant even come close to what bioware did for the original kotor

[Nick Fox]

[quote]
[/quote]

You must be confused. Obsidian is by far the better developer. They have always improved the BW games that they have developed. Alpha Protocol is going to knock ME 2 out of the park and lets not forget that FO:Vegas will crush DA:O.  Don't ever insult Obsidian again![/quote]

Looking forward to those games myself and have high hopes for them. Hopefully these two will challange the ME 2 for the "RPG of the year" rather easy.

[Kalfear]

darthcommander wrote...

Did anyone else notice some similarities?  

errr nope.

ME2 is a shooter with a story
KotOR2 was a even more expanded and indepth character study RPG

Vastly different games.

[Tazzmission]

[quote]Nick Fox wrote...

[quote]
[/quote]

You must be confused. Obsidian is by far the better developer. They have always improved the BW games that they have developed. Alpha Protocol is going to knock ME 2 out of the park and lets not forget that FO:Vegas will crush DA:O.  Don't ever insult Obsidian again![/quote]

Looking forward to those games myself and have high hopes for them. Hopefully these two will challange the ME 2 for the "RPG of the year" rather easy.
[/quote]



as big of a me fan i am me itself has enough competition with games like god of war 3 do in 14 days and bioshock 2 and call of duty modern war fare 2. i really havent played a obsidian game since kotor2 but trust me the games i just mentioned will be in the catagory for game of the year.

[Nick Fox]

[quote]Tazzmission wrote...

[quote]Nick Fox wrote...

[quote]
[/quote]

You must be confused. Obsidian is by far the better developer. They have always improved the BW games that they have developed. Alpha Protocol is going to knock ME 2 out of the park and lets not forget that FO:Vegas will crush DA:O.  Don't ever insult Obsidian again![/quote]

Looking forward to those games myself and have high hopes for them. Hopefully these two will challange the ME 2 for the "RPG of the year" rather easy.
[/quote]



as big of a me fan i am me itself has enough competition with games like god of war 3 do in 14 days and bioshock 2 and call of duty modern war fare 2. i really havent played a obsidian game since kotor2 but trust me the games i just mentioned will be in the catagory for game of the year.[/quote]

That may be the case bro, What i meant is RPG game of the year though.

[Tazzmission]

[quote]Nick Fox wrote...

[quote]Tazzmission wrote...

[quote]Nick Fox wrote...

[quote]
[/quote]

You must be confused. Obsidian is by far the better developer. They have always improved the BW games that they have developed. Alpha Protocol is going to knock ME 2 out of the park and lets not forget that FO:Vegas will crush DA:O.  Don't ever insult Obsidian again![/quote]

Looking forward to those games myself and have high hopes for them. Hopefully these two will challange the ME 2 for the "RPG of the year" rather easy.
[/quote]






as big of a me fan i am me itself has enough competition with games like god of war 3 do in 14 days and bioshock 2 and call of duty modern war fare 2. i really havent played a obsidian game since kotor2 but trust me the games i just mentioned will be in the catagory for game of the year.[/quote]

That may be the case bro, What i meant is RPG game of the year though.
[/quote]






well they wont specificly give a award to a specifit  game titled i.e best rpg mmo or w/e. i also forgot ff13 is do this year also im not a ff fan but all this compitition puts a smile on my face cause i love that ****

Modifié par Tazzmission, 02 mars 2010 - 09:45 .