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Normandy Dreadnought V2.0


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#101
Tankfriend

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I'm really wondering why so many people see dreadnoughts as the only viable means to counter the Reapers (let alone as the best thing for a new ship for Shepard). In my opinion, they are actually the worst class of ship to throw against the Reapers.

Let's re-cap:
---Dreadnoughts---
+ Dreadnoughts pack a huge amount of firepower over long range with their main gun.
- Dreadnoughts have to line up their main gun before firing which means lining up the entire ship.
- Dreadnoughts severely lack in maneuverability. That slows down the lining-up-process as well as making it unlikely to evade enemy fire.
- They are extremely large and thus easy to target.
- Once in close combat range, their main gun is useless because it can no longer line up properly.
- Conventional dreadnoughts seem to lack armaments apart from their main gun.
- Dreadnoughts are extremely expensive.
- They need a large crew.

---Reapers---
+ Reapers also pack a huge amount of firepower, enough to destroy a cruiser-class vessel in a single hit. The maximum effective range has yet to be determined but it apparently is not too short either.
+ Reapers have flexible weapons that don't require the entire ship to line up.
+ Reapers apparently have maneuverability that far outmatches anything around in the galaxy. That makes it more likely to evade incoming fire, especially on long-range engagements where there is enough time to react.
+/ - Reapers are extremely large and easy to target but they also possess protection systems that are far ahead of anything in the galaxy.
+ Reapers can take enormous amounts of firepower but still "survive".
+ Due to the flexibility, the Reapers' weapons are still useable at very short ranges.
+/- We don't know if Reapers have more weapons than those we know of yet.
+ Reaper hulls are strong enough to simply crash through a cruiser-class vessel without even getting a scratch.
+ Reapers are apparently surprisingly fast for their size.

Now, if we combine those things, we could pretty much arive at this battle scenario:
The galactic fleet will set up in a standard fleet formation for the battle. Their procedure would likely be to keep back for as long as possible to use their dreadnoughts as much as possible because they have the single largest firepower and thus the single largest possibility to actually damage the Reapers. They could send in the rest of the fleet early on in the battle but I doubt they would do so - casualties and wasted dreadnought shots due to friendly fire are the last thing the galactic fleet needs when fighting the Reapers.
The Reapers have the superiority in all aspects so they will probably go for an all-out charge at full speed.

That situation gives us a few problems for the galactic forces, though:
a) At long to medium ranges, the Reapers might be able to utilize their superior maneuverability to evade incoming dreadnought fire.
B) Even if the Reapers are hit by a dreadnought projectile, we don't really know how much damage that would actually do to one of them.
c) The Reapers might be able to get into close range so fast that the dreadnoughts can only take a few shots.
d) The rest of the fleet cannot act as a screen for the repositioning or retreat of the dreadnoughts because the Reapers could simply crash through any ship in their way while still firing. If it goes that far (and it most likely will), the dreadnoughts are toast.

That's why I don't see any real reason why dreadnoughts would be feasible weapons against the Reapers. They might offer the highest single firepower of any ship class but they are extremely lacking in any other respect. And if it comes to close range combat, the conventional dreadnoughts are useless.

The ships that I see as far more useful against the Reapers are fighters and frigates.
+/- Thanks to a weapons development in ME2, they can have firepower rivaling a cruiser. (No real reason that tech wouldn't be shared if the galaxy is on the brink of destruction). We don't know how effective that weapon is if used en-masse against Reapers yet but we can have a lot more overall firepower this way.
+/- The mentioned weapon does not have the range of heavier ships'
weaponry but close combat is the preferred combat range for fighters
and frigates anyway.
+ They are very maneuverable and lining up weapons should be a non-issue for these ships. It is also more likely for these ships to evade enemy fire.
+ They are very small and thus far more difficult to target than larger vessels.
+ They are far cheaper than larger vessels.
+ They require far less crew than larger vessels.

Basically, preferring fighters and frigates to dreadnoughts would result in a far higher ship count (and possibly even higher overall potential firepower) while keeping costs and manpower demands either at the same or a lower level. Given that those ships would be more likely to actually survive a Reaper attack for some time due to their maneuverability and small target profile, they would also be far more cost-effective than dreadnoughts. The other ship classes would naturally remain in service as long as they are still fit for fleet duty, but I think they should be refitted to carry more fighters than they currently do (maybe even refit dreadnoughts into full carriers). In any case, the more widespread usage of fighters would likely result in species other than Humans taking on the carrier vessel concept.

Right, so far for my 2Cents about dreadnoughts.

Modifié par Tankfriend, 27 février 2010 - 11:53 .


#102
War Houndoom

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.

Modifié par War Houndoom, 27 février 2010 - 11:51 .


#103
thegreateski

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What so we can make ourselves a BIGGER target?



The Reapers are already gunning for us as it is.

#104
PhoenixBlacke

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Actually, after we beat ME2, I told my buddy, watch in pt 3 they'll give us a freaking Dreadnought, considering the incoming threat and all. Also hope, that there will be all members from pt 1 and 2 (that you have alive) and then some more in 3. It IS the final one after all, after all they done, it'd be worth it to have the last to be crazy.

#105
Dreadz666

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Why a dreadnought? I mean I understand the coolness factor but come on, the ME series is about commando missions and not about obliterating all life on a planet with an orbital bombardement.
The Normandy fulfills perfectly it's job as a stealthy space taxi. :P

#106
PhoenixBlacke

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Actually, after we beat ME2, I told my buddy, watch in pt 3 they'll give us a freaking Dreadnought, considering the incoming threat and all. Also hope, that there will be all members from pt 1 and 2 (that you have alive) and then some more in 3. It IS the final one after all, after all they done, it'd be worth it to have the last to be crazy.

#107
War Houndoom

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PhoenixBlacke wrote...

Actually, after we beat ME2, I told my buddy, watch in pt 3 they'll give us a freaking Dreadnought, considering the incoming threat and all. Also hope, that there will be all members from pt 1 and 2 (that you have alive) and then some more in 3. It IS the final one after all, after all they done, it'd be worth it to have the last to be crazy.


I hope they do too.

#108
Scottthesnow

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With a dreadnought, you don't dock with planets. Planets dock with YOU.

#109
Tibilicus

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Personally I hate the concept.



I like the fact it's just you, the Normandy and your crew, I feel like an underdog. With a dreadnought it would just ruin the whole concept. Also the whole idea of a "bar" on the ship amongst various other ideas is kind of silly too. Your on a mission to save the galaxy, if you really need a drink got to Omega.



I just don't understand why some people are always wanting more, and not in a good way. Dreadnoughts, hundreds of love interests, every gun available for every class, a choice of at least 20 squad mates for over the course of both games, the asari consort on board the ship for Shepard's own personal use..



You get the idea. The games fine the way it is. Another thing, the reason the Normandy works is because it's a smallish ship, if Shepard needs to speak with some one or get to some where else on the ship, it takes minutes. Dreadnoughts are massive though, the destiny could hold 10,000 people, kind of inconvenient when you need to get to the cockpit and then need to get to the engineering deck a minute later. Kind of silly concept In my opinion.

#110
Reiisha

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War Houndoom wrote...

Aryck1095 V2 wrote...

A Dreadnaught? Are you serious? Next you'll suggest that the Ebon Hawk should have been a warship.

The Normandy is a stealth vessel. It is supposed to be small, fast, and quiet. That's what makes it unique. Keep your glorified battering-ram, I think the Normandy is fine as it is.


You think I'm joking right? I'm not, while the current normandy might be unique, It would stand no chance against a reaper, not to mention a whole reaper army.


Well, i admit that the Destiny Ascension was doing fine--- Oh, wait. :D

A dreadnought is a very bad idea for someone who tries to be fast and silent most of the time. No ship in the ME galaxy can take on a Reaper solo, the battle at the Citadel pretty much proved this. It took the entire council and alliance fleet and even then they barely took Sovereign, a single reaper, down, with heavy losses.

In other words, the current Normandy will do just fine. A larger ship would pretty much equal a bigger target for the Reapers anyway, rather than a more formidable challenge. The Normandy can stay out of dodge (literally) whilst any bigger ship would have chunks of armor blown away. While Shepard may be the fleet commander, (s)he doesn't actually have to be on the flagship.

There's no reason for Shepard to take command of a dreadnought.

#111
Commander Darmok

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I was talking to, ahem, a certain last party member today, and he mentioned something interesting. He said you would need a dreadnought to take down a reaper. I wasn't able to get here fast enough to post the exact quote (if anyone has it, feel free to use it to fan and/or douse the flames,) but as soon as I heard it, I thought of this thread.

#112
Guest_ivan.inverse_*

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Yeah, the Normandy in ME2 might have been bigger, but it was still a frigate.

Hell no to Dreadnought Normandy.

#113
Aryck the One

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Reiisha wrote...

War Houndoom wrote...

Aryck1095 V2 wrote...

A Dreadnaught? Are you serious? Next you'll suggest that the Ebon Hawk should have been a warship.

The Normandy is a stealth vessel. It is supposed to be small, fast, and quiet. That's what makes it unique. Keep your glorified battering-ram, I think the Normandy is fine as it is.


You think I'm joking right? I'm not, while the current normandy might be unique, It would stand no chance against a reaper, not to mention a whole reaper army.


Well, i admit that the Destiny Ascension was doing fine--- Oh, wait. :D

A dreadnought is a very bad idea for someone who tries to be fast and silent most of the time. No ship in the ME galaxy can take on a Reaper solo, the battle at the Citadel pretty much proved this. It took the entire council and alliance fleet and even then they barely took Sovereign, a single reaper, down, with heavy losses.

In other words, the current Normandy will do just fine. A larger ship would pretty much equal a bigger target for the Reapers anyway, rather than a more formidable challenge. The Normandy can stay out of dodge (literally) whilst any bigger ship would have chunks of armor blown away. While Shepard may be the fleet commander, (s)he doesn't actually have to be on the flagship.

There's no reason for Shepard to take command of a dreadnought.


My point exactly. Thank you. Finally, someone who is making some sense.

#114
Geth Knight

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Assumed there was an Alliance dreadnaught at the end of ME1. Sorry.

#115
GenkiZer0

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War Houndoom wrote...

This is my proposal to the, Mass Effect community, that in ME-3 commander Shepard should be given command of dreadnought warship called the SR-3 Normandy.

Now alot of you might be thinking, "why the heck would you want to replace the Normandy we've got now, especially with a dreadnought" and your all stupid for even thinking that *joking*. Well the reason to replace it is because:

1. If the normandy was destroyed in ME-2 were gonna need a new ship.

2. A dreadnought would provide a capital ship for shepards army in coming war against the reapers.

3. A larger ship would provide a larger area for more characters and party members and ship exploration.

5. The feeling you would get from commanding such a ship would be so worth it.

4. Because I said so!

"Now hold on a sec. you must be crazy suggesting this," Thats probably what you just said to yourself, but wait theres more.*p.s. maybe I am alittle crazy*

You might be wondering what would happen to the SR-2 Normandy if it survived.

Theory on what would happen number 1. It gets destroyed again and shepard dies and has to get relazarused.

2. The SR-2 still remains usable, and is used to land planet side and as a drop ship.

3. I really can't think of another good suggestion for this one, thoughts people.

Finally we move on to the final part of this journey, what in the world do we do with a ship of this size and magnitude?

1. Gather and collect a crew and squad members for your army.

2. Upgrade it for the fight against the reapers.

3. Engage in ship to ship combat missions.

4. Use it as a base of operations for your army.

5. Explore the galaxy with the resources of a dreadnought, collecting data and technology.

6. Blow stuff up!!!

Well folks, thats about all I've got to input, comments and suggestions are welcomed.

Love, me. 


Do you remember who made the normandy and why cerberus was able to recreat it?
A: Alliance/Cerberus co developed the SR-1 therefore it was easy to develop the SR-2

Do you Know who the MAJOR investors of cerberus are?
A: Ppl who are the TOP Alliance military officials, Alliance politicians, Major Human business moguls.

Therefore, those who know who TIM is... would "Off" him if he triies to "Off" Shepard.

Secondly, The Alliance is waiting with open arms for Shep to return to them. and they "The Alliance" have a Dreadnaught.

Thirdly, Miranda,Jacob and the Normandy AI, "Who Knows who and where TIM is has left Cerberus to be/work with you.

Finally, The Council knows about The Reapers and most likly have their Specters, STG, Asari Commando Groups and N7. plus their Militaries getting prep'd for the fight.
If you read and listened to everything that was said in ME1 and ME2 and know how Gov'ts work, you would know that The Council, as well as ALL their respective Gov'ts DO NOT want to unsettle the population of a few TRILLION ppl. Also this would keep the Reapers from initiating a pre-emptive strike it they ever did capture Shep and found out that Shep also had this info "It's called a EYEs ONLY sceario". and remember also that Cerberus has found out that the Shadow Broker Is working for/or w/ the Reapers "Thanks to Liara T'Soni".

So, your N7/Specter/Cerberus Dreadnaught would be irrelevant.Image IPB

Modifié par GenkiZer0, 28 février 2010 - 02:07 .


#116
thinker029

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I hope there's a chance there will be a ship-to-ship romance option.

#117
HBC Dresden

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diskoh wrote...

Dreadnoughts are not practical for the kind of work Shepard does. You can't swoop in and out of a planet's atmosphere with them. Probably can't even dock them in cities.

Shepard is 'special ops infiltration team' type, not a 'sit on the bridge and point at ships to shoot' type.


This.

Many of the missions, like Haelstorm, have many defenses (ships and stations) and the only reason you can land on them to do your mission is that you are a stealth frigate.

I think Shepard should be able to dock with a dreadnought in ME3 maybe as a "home base for his/her army" but the SR-2 will still be Shepard's personal ship and base.

#118
War Houndoom

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Commander Darmok wrote...

I was talking to, ahem, a certain last party member today, and he mentioned something interesting. He said you would need a dreadnought to take down a reaper. I wasn't able to get here fast enough to post the exact quote (if anyone has it, feel free to use it to fan and/or douse the flames,) but as soon as I heard it, I thought of this thread.


If you can find who said it, that would be great, but I remember somthing about zaeed saying it maybe.

#119
War Houndoom

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GenkiZer0 wrote...

War Houndoom wrote...

This is my proposal to the, Mass Effect community, that in ME-3 commander Shepard should be given command of dreadnought warship called the SR-3 Normandy.

Now alot of you might be thinking, "why the heck would you want to replace the Normandy we've got now, especially with a dreadnought" and your all stupid for even thinking that *joking*. Well the reason to replace it is because:

1. If the normandy was destroyed in ME-2 were gonna need a new ship.

2. A dreadnought would provide a capital ship for shepards army in coming war against the reapers.

3. A larger ship would provide a larger area for more characters and party members and ship exploration.

5. The feeling you would get from commanding such a ship would be so worth it.

4. Because I said so!

"Now hold on a sec. you must be crazy suggesting this," Thats probably what you just said to yourself, but wait theres more.*p.s. maybe I am alittle crazy*

You might be wondering what would happen to the SR-2 Normandy if it survived.

Theory on what would happen number 1. It gets destroyed again and shepard dies and has to get relazarused.

2. The SR-2 still remains usable, and is used to land planet side and as a drop ship.

3. I really can't think of another good suggestion for this one, thoughts people.

Finally we move on to the final part of this journey, what in the world do we do with a ship of this size and magnitude?

1. Gather and collect a crew and squad members for your army.

2. Upgrade it for the fight against the reapers.

3. Engage in ship to ship combat missions.

4. Use it as a base of operations for your army.

5. Explore the galaxy with the resources of a dreadnought, collecting data and technology.

6. Blow stuff up!!!

Well folks, thats about all I've got to input, comments and suggestions are welcomed.

Love, me. 


Do you remember who made the normandy and why cerberus was able to recreat it?
A: Alliance/Cerberus co developed the SR-1 therefore it was easy to develop the SR-2

Do you Know who the MAJOR investors of cerberus are?
A: Ppl who are the TOP Alliance military officials, Alliance politicians, Major Human business moguls.

Therefore, those who know who TIM is... would "Off" him if he triies to "Off" Shepard.

Secondly, The Alliance is waiting with open arms for Shep to return to them. and they "The Alliance" have a Dreadnaught.

Thirdly, Miranda,Jacob and the Normandy AI, "Who Knows who and where TIM is has left Cerberus to be/work with you.

Finally, The Council knows about The Reapers and most likly have their Specters, STG, Asari Commando Groups and N7. plus their Militaries getting prep'd for the fight.
If you read and listened to everything that was said in ME1 and ME2 and know how Gov'ts work, you would know that The Council, as well as ALL their respective Gov'ts DO NOT want to unsettle the population of a few TRILLION ppl. Also this would keep the Reapers from initiating a pre-emptive strike it they ever did capture Shep and found out that Shep also had this info "It's called a EYEs ONLY sceario". and remember also that Cerberus has found out that the Shadow Broker Is working for/or w/ the Reapers "Thanks to Liara T'Soni".

So, your N7/Specter/Cerberus Dreadnaught would be irrelevant.Image IPB


Actaully, the council denys that the reapers exist, so do the majority of the other species.

#120
GenkiZer0

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I think I said why. It had something to do w/ EYE's ONLY and TRILLIONS of ppl.

If you announce to the world that aliens want to kill or enslave us and you have no definite way off stopping them... What do you think would happen? then understand why they Deny the existance of Reapers. Two, why tell Shep the samething? B/c I Shep or his crew were to be captured the Reapers would know everything that's REALLY going on. now think of what they'd do to keep the upper hand.HINT * everyones armies are still re-building after the encounter w/ only ONE Reaper.

#121
TornadoADV

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Drakron wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

You do realize the Geth had Dreadnoughts of their own right? Not Cruisers. They seem small compared to the Destiny Ascension, but it is said the Asari Dreadnoughts are far larger then other races.


And you realize the ships that taken down the Destiny Ascension were Geth dropships or cruisers? or are just cherry picking and ignoring things that do not help your case?

The Geth MAY have dreadnoughts of their own but they were not used in the Battle of the Citadel.


I do believe you are smoking something that is not legal. There is a very good profile shot when you save the Destiny when Joker flies right by a cripped Geth Ship much larger then an Alliance Cruiser. Geth did use Dreadnoughts in the Battle of the Citadel.

---Dreadnoughts---
+ Dreadnoughts pack a huge amount of firepower over long range with their main gun.
- Dreadnoughts have to line up their main gun before firing which means lining up the entire ship.
- Dreadnoughts severely lack in maneuverability. That slows down the lining-up-process as well as making it unlikely to evade enemy fire.
- They are extremely large and thus easy to target.
- Once in close combat range, their main gun is useless because it can no longer line up properly.
- Conventional dreadnoughts seem to lack armaments apart from their main gun.
- Dreadnoughts are extremely expensive.
- They need a large crew.


1. Yes they do, 36 Kilotons is nothing to sneeze at, considering you can't intercept it.
2. Every ship has to do this.
3. A Dreadnought could be fitted with secondary Helios Thrusters pioneered by the SR-2, also, the Dreadnought doesn't need to evade fire from anything smaller then another Dreadnought, it will simply shrug the fire aside.
4. Reapers lack long range punch and seem to depend on their shields and armor to allow them to either ram or using it's articulated DEW/Particle Cannon weaponry.
5. That's when the GARDIANS and Javelin Mk.IIs come in. The GARDIAN array could be fitted with Salarian technology that would sextuple the range over standard Alliance arrays. (Ultra-Violet to Infra-Red) and the Javelin Mk.IIs could replace their Disruptor warheads with Nuclear payloads. (Reapers seem to lack a defense system similar to GARDIAN, allowing a B41 nuclear warhead (25 Megatons, equal to 694,444.4 Dreadnought main gun rounds.) to easily slip through a shield array fried by GARDIAN and basically wipe out a Reaper in one shot.)
6. They do not.
7. They are.
8. Alliance Dreadnoughts need less due to heavy use of VI and automation, somewhere around 4000 crew compared to the Destiny's 10,000.

Modifié par TornadoADV, 28 février 2010 - 09:12 .


#122
SaulTighsEyePatch

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I don't understand why so many people seem to think dreadnoughts are useless for anything except a long range fight. They do have close-range weapons, and they will tear apart any ship that gets close to it.

I don't think some of you read the mass accelerator codex entry in ME2:

"A ship's main gun is a large spinal-mount weapon running 90% of the hull's length. While possessing destructive power equal to that of tactical nuclear weapons, main guns are difficult to aim. Because ships must be able to point their bows almost directly at their targets, main guns are best used for long-range "bombardment" fire.

Approximately 40% of the hull's width, broadside guns inflict less damage and can be mounted with greater numbers and more flexibility. The modern human Kilimanjaro-class dreadnoughts mount three decks with 26 broadside accelerators apiece for a total salvo weight of 78 slugs per side, firing once every two seconds."

Dreadnoughts have more than enough firepower to take on anything cruiser-size or under that gets close, and that's before you factor in the Javelin missiles and GARDIAN lasers.

Modifié par SaulTighsEyePatch, 28 février 2010 - 09:43 .


#123
Inquisitor Recon

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Naming human dreadnoughts after mountains always struck me as a poor choice, so whatever allows me to blow apart a small moon works.

#124
TornadoADV

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ReconTeam wrote...

Naming human dreadnoughts after mountains always struck me as a poor choice, so whatever allows me to blow apart a small moon works.


There are a lot of mountains on just Earth, and you can use mountains on human colonys as well.

#125
Costin_Razvan

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A note, there are two types of dreadnoughts, not just the one type with a single main gun.

The Alliance has two dreadnought classes currently in service, the older Everest class and the newer Kilimanjaro class. The Everest class is an 888-meter dreadnought with a main gun capable of accelerating a 20 kilogram slug to 1.3% the speed of light (4025 km/s) for a kinetic energy yield equivalent to 38 kilotons of TNT. The Kilimanjaro class is armed with 156 broadside mass accelerator cannons, 78 on each side. The broadside guns are each as long as 40% of the ship's width.


Give me a Kilimanjaro Dreadnought and I will take it right in the middle of the reaper fleet while my cannons blow them to hell.

Secondly, there apears to be a dreadnought the alliance was constructing and had just finished construction right as the events of ME2 start, coincedence? I think not.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 28 février 2010 - 10:38 .