141 réponses à ce sujet

[Hyper Cutter]

Kalfear wrote...
. I actually like the click on area for a specific character to say something but would like to see current group mates respond to whats said.

That does happen sometimes.

[martin_bgi]

Kalfear wrote...
heh, well I dont recall it but if I said that I appoligize.

no need to apologize, really;) as i said before, no hard feelings;)

as for ME3, i have a combat idea which would make things more tactical and interesting. that would be adding response patterns for your squadmates on the fly in the power selection menu or some submenu located there. to some extent, it would provide nice tool for preparing strategy for upcoming battles (ahh, i'd love to see system like that during some fights in ME2). that could make combat deeper, especially when facing tougher opponents or bigger groups.

also, two additions for the idea of living cities - have player take responsibility of his actions. imagine the sittuation: some crowded place on citadelon one side there is Shepard, on the other is some "bad guy" that needs taking care of. between them there is a huge crowd of citizens.there are many possibilities in this situation. draw the gun and shoot the guy as the crowd "disperses" seeing you armed. draw the gun and shoot through the crowd, gaining renegade points and some bad reputation. sneak to the target using crowd as a natural cover and shoot him point blank, making the commotion. sneak and arrest the guy, using brute force if he resists. call the authorities (C-sec in this situation) and make them approach the target as you block the escape route. approach the target as the authorities block his escape route. appeal to the crowd to make them take out the target (with possibility of some renegade points as the guy would make some of them a living shield). and these are only a few i've thought of. second thing would be adding non-hostile NPCs throught the mission areas, with heavy firefights and such. you could kill them on sight, make them run in fear, escort them to safety. there are more possibilites. that would allow making traps - i.e. Shepard orders a worker to run to safet, and as he gets behind Shepard, said worker draws his gun in attempt to kill Shepard. it's only an example, but that's how i imagine it would work.

last thing would be Shepard's reputation. in ME2 he was "a bloody icon", every shopkeeper on citadel would gladly have his/her babies, everyone except Udina loves him. even when his psychological profile was "ruthless". have people respond to Shepard based on his/her actions. have them fear ruthless+renegade Shepard, and love the war hero.everything could change depending on Shepard's behaviour and how he carries out his missions (of course only these that are known in public)

[Jamelo]

I really wish there was more main story and less off story...It just feels so ridiculus to me. I'm doing all these side missions while Saren/reapers are trying to destroy the entire galaxy. I know it's my choice, but there is no reason in hell I should be helping some random A-hole make a machine to cheat on a quasar machine or that I should be helping some random criminal defend another criminal who she has as her trophy.

It just feels like much of the game doesn't make sense...I want to feel like i keep moving the story along, but it just seems like I'm doing a bunch of useless **** on the side to procrasinate from finishing the game.

last but not least make it more obvious that i'm choosing a romance conversation option. A lot of times you think you are just being friendly, but when shepard actually speaks its some cheesy pickup line.

Modifié par Jamelo, 19 mars 2010 - 10:22 .

[Kalfear]

Jamelo wrote...

last but not least make it more obvious that i'm choosing a romance conversation option. A lot of times you think you are just being friendly, but when shepard actually speaks its some cheesy pickup line.

Well I agree fully on this one but the reason you think you just being freindly is the writers for ME2 were 13 years old and dont understand a man and woman can be just freinds. To them, any kindness of any kind means you trying to get in their pants.

I agree it really sucks.

I tried to be nice to Jack in last play through but stay loyal to Ashley, at one point Ashs picture was no longer in my room telling me that somehow I was romancing Jack, so I went and took the ONLY conversation choice to break off romance and picture came back but all Jack will say is "F off" when I try to talk to her!

Miranda and Tali literally dont speak to me at all since I said no to romance with them! 

But hey, feel reasured, Christina Norman and team think everything is fine and plan to work more on combat for ME3! (open sarcasm) EVERYONES (well the hugely mass majority anyways) prayers have been answered, ME3 will be even more shooter and even less RPG! PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION! (end Sarcasm)

Ahhh well, least pesky things like personality, romance, adult conversations, and story wont get in the way of her game design!

Modifié par Kalfear, 20 mars 2010 - 08:09 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

Kalfear wrote...

1) Group interaction.
I know a number of folks have mentioned the missing elevator rides and the "chats" Party members had with each other in there as something greatly missing from game this time around, and thats very valid. It was one of the first things I missed when hitting the citidel. Along with "chats" between party members in non combat zones like citidel, Illium, Krogan area, and other non combat areas. I would like to add to that, character reactions in combat areas. I actually like the click on area for a specific character to say something but would like to see current group mates respond to whats said. For example (just said in different thread) I just did Jacks loyalty mission and was a number of spots (needed more btw) where you click and Jack recalls something. I intentionally brought Miranda with me as I figured with the clash of personalities, the back and forth should be interesting and fun. Welp Miranda says "looks like place went rogue" at start of mission and that was it, nothing else, how disappointing ../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png. Miranda should be sticking up or "justifying" Cerberus actions and/or reacting to the horrors shes finding out about. This is how you build a living, breathing, vibrant universe.
The number one complaint I have read about ME2 is its to linear and scripted and this is one of the reasons why. I should be able to replay JAcks mission with different groupmates and get a different experience
each time. Oh sure the combat will still be the same but the "EXPERIENCE" will not be and thats why ME1 feels so much more alive then ME2 does.

JokerI love Joker (in a totally straight and non ****** way (as to many people seem stuck on that topic
here) hes a great character). I imagine im not alone in that, so I imagine im also not alone in running to joker for his feedback, update after each mission. Sadly he runs outta things to say before the middle act and you spend rest of game hearing about how he fractured thumb on mute. In ME3, please please please PLEASE make sure Joker (or replacement) has enough content that hes got something new to say after each mission.
Its little things like this that just make the game so enjoyable and I look forward to hearing Jokers little comment, just like I enjoyed flirting with Kelly, listening to the 2 helmsmen talk about Shiara and colonies
and family. Like I listened to 2 people in crew quarters or the two mechanics in engineering.
All these non important characters need more filler.
As I said, 1 new line after each mission is enough. Heck the new line could be cued up depending what happened like the engineers are about Jack and Krogan and Tali in their area.
Just more is definately more in this situation. Im sure im not alone but I LOVE THIS SMALL STUFF and
hate when I run in only to hear silence or a repeat.
It would be one thing if im running to them 3-4 times a trip but I usually only go there 1 time after each mission so thats a good indicator far as im concerned.

For that matter, why does Garrus have so little to say to Sheppard? You would think after all they been through, Garrus would be talking Sheppards ears off. I dont know if its because you get them after the half way point but Thane and Samerra always have something to say to me after each adventure, as they should.
Like Joker, Bioware really needs to focus on the little things like communication and talks. These talks are what create the relationships and enviroment. If you do your jobs right, I SHOULD WANT TO LEARN ABOUT THESE CHARACTERS.

5) Reactions
You realize Tali says NOTHING about Edi after opening screen?

7) Romance
So Im trying my damnest to not romance anyone this play through. Miranda is refuseing to speak to me so guess she got the message of no romance, sad there no freindship conversations as stated above.

10) Email

I also read a suggestion elsewhere where to person wished they could respond to the emailer. Now im not sure how you would go about that but surely you should be able to bring up emails to specific parties. For example you get a email about Garrus and one of his old units wives is worried about him. I was disappointed I couldnt talk to Garrus about this and help him through his issues at the time. Got me wondering, why bother sending the email to begin with if you cant act on it?
Again, the little things being over looked and passed by

If you think you have something that could be better in ME2 or 3 and want to share, post away one and all wrote...

1) Group interaction.
I know a number of folks have mentioned the missing elevator rides and the
"chats" Party members had with each other in there as something greatly missing from game this time around, and thats very valid. It was one of the first things I missed when hitting the citidel.
Along with "chats" between party members in non combat zones like citidel, Illium, Krogan area, and other non combat areas.

I would like to add to that, character reactions in combat areas. I
actually like the click on area for a specific character to say
something but would like to see current group mates respond to whats
said.
For example (just said in different thread) I just did Jacks loyalty mission and was a number of spots (needed more btw) where you click and Jack recalls something. I intentionally brought Miranda with me as I figured with the clash of personalities, the back and forth should be interesting and fun.
Welp Miranda says "looks like place went rogue" at start of mission and that was it, nothing else, how disappointing ../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png. Miranda should be sticking up or "justifying" Cerberus actions and/or reacting to the horrors shes finding out about.
This is how you build a living, breathing, vibrant universe.
The number one complaint I have read about ME2 is its to linear and
scripted and this is one of the reasons why. I should be able to replay
JAcks mission with different groupmates and get a different experience
each time. Oh sure the combat will still be the same but the "EXPERIENCE" will not be and thats why ME1 feels so much more alive then ME2 does.

2) JokerI love Joker (in a totally
straight and non ****** way (as to many people seem stuck on that topic
here) hes a great character).
I imagine im not alone in that, so I imagine im also not alone in running to joker for his feedback, update after each mission. Sadly he runs outta things to say before the middle act and you spend rest of game hearing about how he fractured thumb on mute.
In ME3, please please please PLEASE make sure Joker (or replacement) has
enough content that hes got something new to say after each mission.
Its little things like this that just make the game so enjoyable and I look forward to hearing Jokers little comment, just like I enjoyed flirting with Kelly, listening to the 2 helmsmen talk about Shiara and colonies
and family. Like I listened to 2 people in crew quarters or the two mechanics in engineering. All these non important characters need more filler. As I said, 1 new line after each mission is enough. Heck the new line could be cued up depending what happened like the engineers are about Jack and Krogan and Tali in their area. Just more is definately more in this situation. Im sure im not alone but I LOVE THIS SMALL STUFF and hate when I run in only to hear silence or a repeat. It would be one thing if im running to them 3-4 times a trip but I usually only go there 1 time after each mission so thats a good indicator far as im concerned.

For that matter, why does Garrus have so little to say to Sheppard? You would think after all they been through, Garrus would be talking Sheppards ears off.
I dont know if its because you get them after the half way point but Thane and Samerra always have
something to say to me after each adventure, as they should. Like Joker, Bioware really needs to focus on the little things like communication and talks. These talks are what create the relationships and enviroment. If you do your jobs right,
I SHOULD WANT TO LEARN ABOUT THESE CHARACTERS.

5) Reactions
I stated this in a different thread but ill say it again. One of my biggest disappointments in ME2 was talking to Legion, finding out about Geth society that totally contradicted everything I knew and had been told about it, I ran to Tali to tell her my exciting news... and she didnt care!
*sighs*
You need to keep in mind that what one party member says may effect/influence anouther and you got to build in communication lines to explore those interactive situations. You realize Tali says NOTHING about Edi after opening screen? The Quarian almost kill off life as we know it by creating AI and she has no objections to working with one now? COME ON! THINK PEOPLE THINK!

6) Party gathering.
Im finding I wished I had my whole crew togather before the middle act of game, not after.
I feel rushed trying to learn as much as possible about my crew mates because I have so little time with them.
In ME3, the group should be formed almost immediately (Like ME1) so you can interact and communicate and not have to worry if you run outta time on that front!

7) Romance
So Im trying my damnest to not romance anyone this play through.
Miranda is refuseing to speak to me so guess she got the message of no romance, sad there no freindship conversations as stated above. Jack however did keep talking to me so I made sure I didnt choose any romance and just tried to learn about her. Well I think somehow im in a romance cause with no warning what so ever, just because I said "I wouldnt abandon her" (AS A FREIND DAMN IT, A FREIND) now she talking like we engaged or something and I better not do a 180 on her?????? WTF??????

I accidently saved after and did a mission cause I saw nothing in the chat to suggest romance and now this? My loyalty to Ashley better not be ruined cause of short sighted aand poorly worded conversations. I really think, you should almost have a (R) in front of the romance chat option cause im not trying to romance anyone this play through and being upfront about it to all. How does this suddenly happen???
Again, just because im not romanceing is no reason for me to stop talking to people if thats the logic being
used! Im not romanceing Thane but hes one of the most interesting characters in ME2 and I enjoy our talks quite abit!

8) Loyalty and Loyalty Missions

I liked the Loyalty missions myself
What I didnt like iks everyone gave you the loyalty mission on cue. You didnt have to earn the mission.
What Bioware should do is keep the loyalty missions but add DA:O influence checks and you only get the loyalty mission from a character if their influence 80%> and the loyalty mission, upon successful completion, gives the remaining 20% influence to the character.
ME2 made the loyalty missions meaningless because you didnt have to earn them.
Anouther case of being far to linear in ME2 as compared to other Bioware games. Having 100% loyalty should take careful planing and attention and shouldnt be a forgone conclussion of a pay off imo.

Which in turn might up the mortality rate in the final combat which would create a more varied responce rather then endless threads on 100% survivors from the mission.

For example you get a email about Garrus and one of his old units wives is worried about him. I was disappointed I couldnt talk to Garrus about this and help him through his issues at the time. Got me wondering, why bother sending the email to begin with if you cant act on it? Again, the little things being over looked and passed by

Hey Kalfear. Took you up on your offer.

Everything I quoted I agree with 110 percent. Especially Joker. Him and Tali are tied for my faves. Let me add my biggest points from my thread that got locked.

Been putting this off. For a second I considered posting in the "Plot wise did ME2 accomplish anything?" but felt this deserved its own thread. In a way, I thought the jab at us RPG fans on the Citadel was mildly amusing, minus them being way off. I don't know of ANY RPG fan that doesn't like choices. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I've never
encountered them, and I've encountered a lot of RPG fans both online and off.

ME1 had a few immersion problems, but not like ME2. First, why don't Jacob and Miranda have any body armor or helmets? Second, Michael and Rebeckah. So Shepard could recognize everybody and
talk to them but won't/can't talk to those two? It would have been better if there were excluded from the game all together. Third, the side quests of Garrus, Tali, and Wrex were pointless and there was only a throw away line referencing the geth data. It makes no sense that Garrus and Tali aren't loyal upon joining Shepard. Fourth, I heard leading up to release a lot more dialogue was recorded. Uhhh, I don't think so. Almost every single time I went to talk to somebody they go "not now". Even with Tali who I romanced every time I went to speak
with her she just repeats "I can't tell you how much what you said means to me". Tali, you rock, but you've made that perfectly clear the last 15 times.
This is all even after another's loyalty mission or post main mission. My entire team survived the suicide mission and when I went to speak to my entire crew, they act like nothing happened. And I'm sure it's the same damn thing even if only Shepard and one other squad mate survives. So much for this being the game where you get to know your team. There wasn't really an abundance of dialogue in the first, no. But that was compensated by the fact
missions didn't take forever because of a need to "strategize". We got an overload of combat with a watered down plot in every way possible. Plus, Anderson acting like nothing happened when Shepard and his entire team survives the suicide mission. It doesn't take too much time or money to record 15 seconds worth of dialogue. "BUT U WUD STILL COMPLAIN". Okay, maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't. It's better than nothing though.



But at least the Halo tards got their 'SPLOSHUNS.

I milked my squad of their dialogue about 50 percent in. Shooter fans have all these games that cater to their tastes released every year. How many story driven games are released for RPG fans every year? Not many. But it's not enough that they have Halo, Resident Evil, Gears Of War, Grand Theft Auto, Dead Or Alive, among countless other 'SPLOSHUN games. They had to whine, moan, and bi*** until they got their way and the result was ME2.

I share Nozy's sentiments that plot above all else is the way to go. The focus on combat OVER plot and character interaction sucks in my opinion. And the squad had very little to say. I acknowledge that others don't mind, but ME1 was the complete opposite which is why I purchased ME2, hoping it would be as good, if not better than ME1. In ME1 we weren't overwrought with combat.

It's obvious more resources went into the story overall in ME1 whereas in ME2 more resources went into combat. The combat is what gets the most attention in ME2, but story overall got the most attention in ME1. The reason the Halo tards complained was because there was little focus on intricate, complex combat. Now the opposite has happened. There's complex combat which is the biggest focus of the game, and now RPG fans are complaining.

The potential for story driven games are huge.

3:07-3:26.

I'd also like to add why the hell doesn't Sole Survivor Shepard mention anything about his friend and comrade being TORTURED by Cerberus?

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 21 mars 2010 - 09:56 .

[martin_bgi]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
But at least the Halo tards got their 'SPLOSHUNS.

plus

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
Let me add my biggest points from my thread that got locked.

haven't seen, but probably got locked because of insults towards other community members. also, using a bold font seems to have the same effect that capslock carries, and i don't think unstoppable rage helps in this thread.

generally i agree that there should be more dialogue (not that ME1 had any more...), but few things:

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
Almost every single time I went to talk to somebody they go "not now".

i remember talking to Liara and Garrus back in ME1 and getting the same response. i agree that BioWare should have looked it up after ME1, but hey - they didn't make it worse. if i remember correctly, squadmembers had new dialogue in ME1 after parts of main mission (and there were fewer of them in ME1), and not side missions (loyalty missions).

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
Anderson acting like nothing happened when Shepard and his entire team survives the suicide mission.

i don't remember ever telling him i go on the suicide mission, and i'm pretty sure i used all available dialogue options. i might be wrong, though.

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
"BUT U WUD STILL COMPLAIN".

You, shooter fans, other fraction of RPG fans (please, not every RPG fan considers ME2 a shooter. all of my friends who played it consider it a perfect example of role playing game with great characters and engaging story. and we loved ME1 when it was released for similiar reasons), space simulator fans (i dare You to whine about the number of story drven games released every year to these guys...) or beat-em-up fans. somebody would complain and i'm 100% sure of it. there wasn't anybody in human history who made everybody happy.

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
But it's not enough that they have Halo, Resident Evil, Gears Of War, Grand Theft Auto, Dead Or Alive, among countless other 'SPLOSHUN games.

unreqired insults aside, as i agree with halo (it always makes me laugh when people call ME2 a shooter while comparing it to halo, probably the most watered down shooter i've ever seen. IMHO of course. probably because good and ambitious first person shooters died with growing console market and introduction of games like halo) and absolutely don't agree with GTA (probably because since third part the series grows more and more ambitious, and with every single game there comes very well written plot - but it's my opinion, it's everyone'sright to disagree), i can't seem to understand how does DoA, a beat-em-up game, makes it into shooter, or even " 'SPLOSHUN" category.

i apologize if i was to rough. really need to get some sleep.

Modifié par martin_bgi, 21 mars 2010 - 11:56 .

[Flamewielder]

Adding to my previous post on this thread:

ME2 was on to something when they split up the team for the final mission. But I think they should take it a step further and allow the player to take over a trio of squadmates for "specialist" style missions, similar to what they did in KOTOR or at the end of DA:O. To illustrate:

Garrus-Thane-Legion good long range shots, could be tasked with securing a good sniping location for a big fight, allowing them to assist Shepard-squad.

Jacob-Grunt-Tali close-quarter fighters, could be tasked to infiltrate tunnels/vents/shafts to hack enemy turrets, shields, etc... making the "big fight" somewhat easier for Shepard-squad

Ashley-Zaeed-Samara Assault/Battle Rifle specialists, logical choice for pill-box assault or delaying action, making the "final fight" easier in some way (slower minion spawing, more time available if a timer is involved, etc...)

Such trios can generate more party interaction/dialog, create tension or provide comic relief ("A THOUSAND years old??? And to think I was jealous of Dr. T'Soni...<Ashley sighs>". More importantly, it will give the impression that your dozen or so companions actually DO something when Shepard's not around... beside trying to look busy. With such an ensemble cast, why not make the ME3 finale a group victory? Sure, Shepard's a hero, a bloody icon... but he's got some of the finest people to help him. C'mon BW... give them a chance to shine in the spotlight... The player can successfuly complete the mission, earning some tactical advantage for Shep-squad, or fail (i.e. the specialists become bogged down, have to bunker down or fall back to the Normandy) and miss out on the advantage.

[FlyinElk212]

OP:

So essentially, your suggestions for ME2 all involve better character interactions and development across the board. I can get behind that.

I think the absurd amount of squadmates this game offered really hampered Bioware's ability to make the characters as "complete" and colorful as possible. From a developing standpoint, the amount of squadmates made it difficult to concentrate their efforts on each character, and from a CD space standpoint, it'd be impossible to fit all that interaction info of the 12 characters to 1 disc.

[lastpawn]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

OP:
So essentially, your suggestions for ME2 all involve better character interactions and development across the board. I can get behind that.
I think the absurd amount of squadmates this game offered really hampered Bioware's ability to make the characters as "complete" and colorful as possible. From a developing standpoint, the amount of squadmates made it difficult to concentrate their efforts on each character, and from a CD space standpoint, it'd be impossible to fit all that interaction info of the 12 characters to 1 disc.

This. There were too many characters in ME2. Would have more depth to characters. Also, would have preferred more main plot. Seems like both could have been achieved if 3-4 characters were cut. /shrug

[Kalfear]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Hey Kalfear. Took you up on your offer.

Everything I quoted I agree with 110 percent. Especially Joker. Him and Tali are tied for my faves. Let me add my biggest points from my thread that got locked.

Yeah, your thread had alot of kids trolling and flaming anyone with any comments about game like I was telling Martin about and that never leads to anything good.

If memory serves me right you had like 20 insults thrown at your in different replies before the first real reply with any sort of meaning or substance was made. Not surprised it got locked!

Feel free to share any more ideas you might have here though Skull. More ideas the better  No clue if anyone from Bioware reading this but cant hurt (I hope).

[Mallissin]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Also I noticed the lack of Party Interaction, but I also noticed that they took out the talk to party members option. Sure while they only said a couple lines per level (which they still have in a way in ME 2) this was still noticable.

I support more random party interaction. There was plenty in ME1 and Bioware made it a major element in Dragon Age.

Why can't we have it back?

[Onyx Jaguar]

Mallissin wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Also I noticed the lack of Party Interaction, but I also noticed that they took out the talk to party members option. Sure while they only said a couple lines per level (which they still have in a way in ME 2) this was still noticable.

I support more random party interaction. There was plenty in ME1 and Bioware made it a major element in Dragon Age.

Why can't we have it back?

Well I would strongly prefer the Dragon Age system.  As it stands now there really isn't that much difference between the ME 1 and 2's systems except you have to get lucky in ME 2 and that is annoying.  Just a couple of lines here and there between a couple of the characters would be nice.  Its like some of them don't exist in the same universe together.  Shepard is fine and all but as it stands the lack of party interaction is annoying. 

[Mallissin]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well I would strongly prefer the Dragon Age system.  As it stands now there really isn't that much difference between the ME 1 and 2's systems except you have to get lucky in ME 2 and that is annoying.  Just a couple of lines here and there between a couple of the characters would be nice.  Its like some of them don't exist in the same universe together.  Shepard is fine and all but as it stands the lack of party interaction is annoying. 

The small things, too. Like Wrex not giving Garrus or Tali a nod if you bring them with you to Tuchanka. You had to recruit Tali and we know it imported whether or not you recruited Garrus, so they had the data there to make the options. Why couldn't they spend a little time polishing that connection off better? Felt very disconnected because of that.

Same thing with the side missions. They only had two N7 mission threads I think. The first game at 4-5, where you went to a system and had to destroy several bases or follow a trail. I enjoyed those, but we were given more singular missions in ME2 than trails.

[binaryemperor]

I really hope they work on that weird texture popping problem. It's kind of irksome to talk to wrex as his eyeballs shift out of his skull.

[SkullandBonesmember]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

I think the absurd amount of squadmates this game offered really hampered Bioware's ability to make the characters as "complete" and colorful as possible.

Personally I think we could have done without Thane, Legion(despite liking him), maybe Mordin, and especially Grunt.

[Mallissin]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

I think the absurd amount of squadmates this game offered really hampered Bioware's ability to make the characters as "complete" and colorful as possible.

Personally I think we could have done without Thane, Legion(despite liking him), maybe Mordin, and especially Grunt.

Point to the spot where you want to be stabbed.

[Karstedt]

Kalfear wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Hey Kalfear. Took you up on your offer.

Everything I quoted I agree with 110 percent. Especially Joker. Him and Tali are tied for my faves. Let me add my biggest points from my thread that got locked.

Yeah, your thread had alot of kids trolling and flaming anyone with any comments about game like I was telling Martin about and that never leads to anything good.

If memory serves me right you had like 20 insults thrown at your in different replies before the first real reply with any sort of meaning or substance was made. Not surprised it got locked!

Feel free to share any more ideas you might have here though Skull. More ideas the better  No clue if anyone from Bioware reading this but cant hurt (I hope).

Plus he used the apparently offensive term Fanboys in the title of his thread... and low and behold... the fanboys united for substanceless smear campaign. Hopefully I won't get censored for using being offensive with my use of "Fanboys" here.

[Onyx Jaguar]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

I think the absurd amount of squadmates this game offered really hampered Bioware's ability to make the characters as "complete" and colorful as possible.

Personally I think we could have done without Thane, Legion(despite liking him), maybe Mordin, and especially Grunt.

Mordin was essentially useless as a squadmate.  I can see why you would need to recruit him, but other than that he should have just stayed on the ship as a technition. 

[SkullandBonesmember]

Mallissin wrote...

Point to the spot where you want to be stabbed.

The implication of which squad member being left out offended you?

[SkullandBonesmember]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Mordin was essentially useless as a squadmate.  I can see why you would need to recruit him, but other than that he should have just stayed on the ship as a technition.

*Technician.

And Mordin could have easily been replaced by Tali.

[Kalfear]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Mallissin wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Also I noticed the lack of Party Interaction, but I also noticed that they took out the talk to party members option. Sure while they only said a couple lines per level (which they still have in a way in ME 2) this was still noticable.

I support more random party interaction. There was plenty in ME1 and Bioware made it a major element in Dragon Age.

Why can't we have it back?

Well I would strongly prefer the Dragon Age system.  As it stands now there really isn't that much difference between the ME 1 and 2's systems except you have to get lucky in ME 2 and that is annoying.  Just a couple of lines here and there between a couple of the characters would be nice.  Its like some of them don't exist in the same universe together.  Shepard is fine and all but as it stands the lack of party interaction is annoying. 

I really prefer DA:O and KotOR (and Jade Empire) systems were if you acted opposite someones beleifs, they spoke up and it hurt your influence with them.
THAT MAKES SENCE.
In ME2, say and do what ever you want, it wont change or effect the story or characters in anyway. That sucks.
Like I said in opening post, you should have to EARN a characters loyalty (or influence them enough if you like that wording more) for them to even trust you with their final loyalty mission.
As it stands now, say and do what ever you want, at a certain point in game, GUARENTEED, each team member will ask you to do a loyalty mission for them.

As I said, the game is just TO LINEAR! I accept that FF13 is linear because ALL SQUARE ENIX GAMES are linear in design. But thats not Biowares way till Mass Effect 2.

[Karstedt]

Since I am generally dissapointed with the magnitude of simplification in ME2, it's only fair that I do my best to disagree with you where I can OP.

Kalfear wrote...

8) Loyalty and Loyalty Missions

I liked the Loyalty missions myself
What I didnt like iks everyone gave you the loyalty mission on cue. You didnt have to earn the mission.
What Bioware should do is keep the loyalty missions but add DA:O influence checks and you only get the loyalty mission from a character if their influence 80%> and the loyalty mission, upon successful completion, gives the remaining 20% influence to the character.
ME2 made the loyalty missions meaningless because you didnt have to earn them.
Anouther case of being far to linear in ME2 as compared to other Bioware games.
Having 100% loyalty should take careful planing and attention and shouldnt be a forgone conclussion of a pay off imo.
Which in turn might up the mortality rate in the final combat which would create a more varied responce rather then endless threads on 100% survivors from the mission.

I think you're off target here because you're thinking of the loyalty missions as 'optional' side missions (though technically they are). They were't really about getting to know people; they are actually an integral part of the main story missions... this presents problems of it's own, because as integral parts fo the main story, they kinda suck.

9) Side Missions

So I never noticed first play through how few side missions there really are in ME2.
Sure they look better but there so few, made even more depressing when you think a handful of them are 5 minute missions at best.
Just seems to me there was more in ME1.
Now maybe they play to rectify this with DLC? I dont know but the main game, when shipped should have more side mission. Simply is far to many galaxies with nothing happening in them. I think the number of side missions should have been doubled in game AND there should be less 5 minute missions. 1 or 2 acceptable but thats it.

I think you're off target here because you're not counting the loyalty missions as side quests. All but a couple of them ar fairly long and there are alomst a dozen of them. This of course creates it's own problem, because if you count the loyalty missions as side missions, that means you had very, very little in the way of main storyline.

Yes, my responses are incongruent with one another. That was done to demostrate why I think you're off target on these two issues. I think these are actually one issue, and on top of that, because of how BW did things, they are also inseparable from the issue you left out of the main story lacking.

From ME1 there was an outcry for more storyline missions, and more varied side missions; instead of, get story, goto stonghold with same layout as every other stronghold, destroy bad guys, repeat. You can clearly see how they put a fair amount of effort into rectifying both of those items. The problem happened, when they killed the support structure in the process.

They essentially made book 2 be about the building of a team; for the purpose of solving the collector problem (which really turned out to be a pretty minimal portion of the story as far as focus). With most of the emphasis on building your team, if utterly failed as story for the game because the support structure of what makes the whole 'recruitment' story interesting is team interaction (which you talk about as part 1).

The use of what 'played' as no more than hearty sidequests as the bulk of the main story was the end result. And this post is the end result of my attempt to be disagreeable with OP who I mostly agree with.

But I digress... wasn't this topic supposed to be about that ridiculous idea to devolve into a primarily clip based system?

Modifié par Karstedt, 22 mars 2010 - 08:57 .

[Kalfear]

Mallissin wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well I would strongly prefer the Dragon Age system.  As it stands now there really isn't that much difference between the ME 1 and 2's systems except you have to get lucky in ME 2 and that is annoying.  Just a couple of lines here and there between a couple of the characters would be nice.  Its like some of them don't exist in the same universe together.  Shepard is fine and all but as it stands the lack of party interaction is annoying. 

The small things, too. Like Wrex not giving Garrus or Tali a nod if you bring them with you to Tuchanka. You had to recruit Tali and we know it imported whether or not you recruited Garrus, so they had the data there to make the options. Why couldn't they spend a little time polishing that connection off better? Felt very disconnected because of that.

Same thing with the side missions. They only had two N7 mission threads I think. The first game at 4-5, where you went to a system and had to destroy several bases or follow a trail. I enjoyed those, but we were given more singular missions in ME2 than trails.

LOL, so freaking true!!!!!

It bugs me to no end that here You save Tali in ME1 at start, you supply her with her information for her mission in ME1, she has a crush on you in ME2, you save her from certain death on Geth world in ME2, you save her crew mate from himself at start of ME2.
Yet after all that shes still not loyal till you do the loyalty mission.
How stupid is that? Seriously?

Same goes for Garrus, why do you have to PROVE your loyalty to him in ME2?

and your right, why doesnt Wrex aknowledge Garrus or Tali? Heck, why doesnt Anderson acknowledge Garrus or Tali when you see him on Citidel? Or Liara to them? It couldnt have been that hard to think up and program in! Just a sinple :

"Hi Garrus/Tali, its good to see you again", not a big deal.

And your also right about missions. ME1 had the moon mission where you did 3 different structures (all fighting with almost no story so really it was exactly perfect for ME2) but it took like 30 minutes to a hour to do! Not 10 minutes!

All the side missions in ME2 were just simplistic bang bang bang your done things! Heck one of them (the missle launch) was literally 1 room (3 minutes of fighting) and your done.

Im ok with the ODD side mission being a couple mintes long but normally they should be 20+ minutes at least. The side missions in ME1 were mostly just combat at well but you would hit multiple structures with multiple levels (even if it was same building over and over).
ME2 really cheaps out on the side missions far as im concerned.
Mirandas loyalty mission size should be the AVERAGE Side mission size with equal numbers being ALOT more and ALOT less for variation.
If I had to guess, Id say the average side mission time was 5-10 minutes long in total and thats just not acceptable!

[Karstedt]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

And Mordin could have easily been replaced by Tali.

Not really. You needed him for his medical expertise. He didn't have to be an "away team" member though. He could have been just as cool without being someone you drag along with guns blazing. That would have made it easier to create banter as there would be one less permutation to worry about on missions.

[Karstedt]

Flamewielder wrote...

ME2 was on to something when they split up the team for the final mission. But I think they should take it a step further and allow the player to take over a trio of squadmates for "specialist" style missions, similar to what they did in KOTOR or at the end of DA:O. To illustrate:
--snip--

Do want. I was actually surprised that it didn't turn out that way considering Bioware has done just that kind of thing before. Big missed opportunity.