119 réponses à ce sujet

[Jackal904]

ExtremeOne wrote...

jojon2se wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
I am fine with losing people like Tali  and Jack. She backs up her talk with action. I think we all need to understand truly Tali and Garrus were in ME 2 for pure fan service nothing else. Oh and Miranda is Shepard's 1 st officer not Garrus 

Of course; the action does not quite live up to the talk.

I hope to see Miranda become less obsessed with proving herself in ME3. Maybe even get closer to Jack along the way, seeing the similarities between them. If SuZe is indeed something of a fast-burning candle, paying for her heightened biotic prowess with reduced life span through myelin degradation, I could see Miranda take on a bit of a caring sister-role again. She's not likely to manage completely throwing off her  talking down to people and Jack may never come to accept anything, completely or at all, but I'd like to see them come to more-or-less understand and tolerate each other.

 


I disagree Miranda is fine the way she is. If you do not like the way she is thats ok but ME 3 needs more of Miranda than it does some stupid alien bimbo like Tali or Jack who acts like a bald headed B in the game. 

Hell no. I can only handle so much stuck up **** in a video game. If she's as ****y and conceded in ME3 as she is in ME2 I think I might have to feed her to the seeker swarms in the final mission...

[IoCaster]

I started a new game last night with the sole purpose of trying to like Miranda. Unfortunately, from the first conversation on the research station, through Freedom's Progress and onto the Normandy it just goes from bad to worse. By the time I docked at Omega I made a beeline straight to Zaeed and told him to get his butt on the Normandy. Then I dashed back to the airlock and dumped that useless, incompetent, obnoxious skank. She can stay in her office until I get to the Collector Base and kill her off. There's simply no way in hell that I'll carry her sorry ass on any of my saves for ME3. I don't know if the Bioware writers were smoking crack or what, but she's the most poorly written character in the game. Maybe it was intentional because it's hard for me to imagine that they could screw it up so bad by accident. So yes, I agree with the OP. Miranda sucks.

[Bigdoser]

Miranda becomes awesome when she quits cerberus, that's when I like her.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 27 février 2010 - 02:53 .

[Gill Kaiser]

Miranda grew on me throughout the game.

[Jeremy Winston]

She's supposed to be a pain in the ass. But, she starts softening about 1/4 way into the game, around when she gets her Loyalty quest.

Understand.. it's not bad writing (at least I don't think so). It's exactly how she is designed to be written. She has her own demons driving her.

If you hate her that much, then the writers did a good job.

Modifié par Jeremy Winston, 27 février 2010 - 02:55 .

[Jeremy Winston]

...

Modifié par Jeremy Winston, 27 février 2010 - 02:54 .

[jojon2se]

A character's personality/journey raises a strong reaction in you, friendly or otherwise: writers' job done well.

[IoCaster]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

She's supposed to be a pain in the ass. But, she starts softening about 1/4 way into the game, around when she gets her Loyalty quest.

Understand.. it's not bad writing (at least I don't think so). It's exactly how she is designed to be written. She has her own demons driving her.

If you hate her that much, then the writers did a good job.

If their intention was to make her an incompetent fool with a crappy attitude, that I wouldn't trust to manage a fried chicken shack in the Omega slums, that's cool then. They can pat themselves on the back and take bows. Mission accomplished!

[Jeremy Winston]

IoCaster wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

She's supposed to be a pain in the ass. But, she starts softening about 1/4 way into the game, around when she gets her Loyalty quest.

Understand.. it's not bad writing (at least I don't think so). It's exactly how she is designed to be written. She has her own demons driving her.

If you hate her that much, then the writers did a good job.

If their intention was to make her an incompetent fool with a crappy attitude, that I wouldn't trust to manage a fried chicken shack in the Omega slums, that's cool then. They can pat themselves on the back and take bows. Mission accomplished!

Please provide examples of incompetence.  Please show how her attitude is any more crappy than a typical renegade Shepard.

[IoCaster]

jojon2se wrote...

A character's personality/journey raises a strong reaction in you, friendly or otherwise: writers' job done well.

The problem with that approach is that it results in a character that's serves no useful purpose for me as a player. You add that to the fact that she's written to play a prominent role in this game, and presumably ME3. I doubt that she's intended to be a throwaway character like Jack, Zaeed, Thane or Samara. They purposely made her the most difficult character to kill off in the suicide mission. So what's the point of writing her character in such a way that she engenders such a negative reaction? Just to prove that they can get the player 'emotionally engaged'? Seems a bit of a waste, but whatever floats their boat, I guess.

Modifié par IoCaster, 27 février 2010 - 03:23 .

[Asheer_Khan]

First was her father.



This time (fourth run) i payed close attention at her speech about her father (before rescuing Oriana from Eclipse) and i am not quite sure if that was true in devs mind what i detect in background of her story.



What i discover was a story of a girl who suffer about half of her life (until she become legal adult) to be a more or less living perfect... sex toy.

Her entire appearance indicated what was her main "purpose" and later on thanks to her biotics she could be as well used as "loyalty enforcing tool" by her father and when her father start to noticed that she become more aware over herself and because of that dangerous for his plans he created Oriana to simply replace Miri.



You might say that she act like spoil rich brat... maybe but if she will have "normal life in luxury " like Niket say she will not have a single reason to escape UNLESS there is more behind curtain as was revealed.

When she start work for Timmy she just close her heart and mind for any outside impulses in fear that people will again abuse her trust and that's why Timmy have not a slightest problem to convince her to believe in Cerberus ideology, beside fact that Timmy did offer (from simple cold Miri's loyalty calculation and not good heart) his help to hide Oriana from Miri's father only strenghtned her trust in Cerberus... until she meet (in my case) paragon Shepard and she show her that even in deep darkness there is always flicker seed of hope waiting for opportunity to surface.



I too hope that in ME 3 Miri and Jack will cross river of distrust especially after Miri quit her work for Timmy... ( hmmm that's gives me idea to get Jack and Miri to visit termireaper just to see Jack reaction (if there will be one) when Miri will show Timmy middle finger.) and become true friends.



If my Shepard was able to turn such alien haters at the beginning like Pressly or Ash on the light side then convince Miri and jack to become friends should not be that hard.



Like Bastila once say.



"What greater weapon is to turn your enemy at your cause and use his knowledge against your foes".

[ExtremeOne]

Jackal904 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

jojon2se wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
I am fine with losing people like Tali  and Jack. She backs up her talk with action. I think we all need to understand truly Tali and Garrus were in ME 2 for pure fan service nothing else. Oh and Miranda is Shepard's 1 st officer not Garrus 

Of course; the action does not quite live up to the talk.

I hope to see Miranda become less obsessed with proving herself in ME3. Maybe even get closer to Jack along the way, seeing the similarities between them. If SuZe is indeed something of a fast-burning candle, paying for her heightened biotic prowess with reduced life span through myelin degradation, I could see Miranda take on a bit of a caring sister-role again. She's not likely to manage completely throwing off her  talking down to people and Jack may never come to accept anything, completely or at all, but I'd like to see them come to more-or-less understand and tolerate each other.

 


I disagree Miranda is fine the way she is. If you do not like the way she is thats ok but ME 3 needs more of Miranda than it does some stupid alien bimbo like Tali or Jack who acts like a bald headed B in the game. 

Hell no. I can only handle so much stuck up **** in a video game. If she's as ****y and conceded in ME3 as she is in ME2 I think I might have to feed her to the seeker swarms in the final mission...

  

Its clear that you hate Miranda and I really like Miranda. Tali is a stupid ****** and Jack is exactly what I said she is. Oh I guess some people can not handle a strong woman in a game thats why many of you hate Miranda 

[jojon2se]

Oh, the irony.

[IoCaster]

Jeremy Winston wrote...


Please provide examples of incompetence.  Please show how her attitude is any more crappy than a typical renegade Shepard.

Her judgment is definitely suspect throughout the game. She's an incompetent idiot and isn't qualified to serve on the Normandy in her present role.

• The Illusive Man wouldn't intentionally send us into a trap.
• Niket would never betray me.
• Samara is a good choice for team leader.
• I could do it. Any biotic could. 
• Defeatist and morale killer: We knew it was a one way trip! - Joker to Shep "I'm glad you're in charge."
• Let's sell the Geth to Cerberus before we've taken the opportunity to interrogate it.

There are more instances of questionable judgment throughout the game. The main point is that the writers were seemingly trying to make her look as incompetent as possible or they weren't aware of how some players would react to some of her actions and dialogue. 

As far as her attitude is concerned, I don't care how you role play your Shepard, renegade or otherwise. What I do care about is having an XO that doesn't try to second guess my decisions, in front of the crew, at almost every given opportunity. I don't need a ship's officer trying to usurp my command every time she opens her obnoxious cakehole. In other words, I don't need Miranda for anything. She's dead, Jim. And likely to remain so for every one of my ME3 import save files. 

[Exile Isan]

You know she right about her being a good leader if she leads the fire teams everything's all good. She was also right about you needing someone with tech expertise. And she says "in theory" any biotic could do and she's right anyone could, but it is (as someone pointed out) a test of endurance. I decided to play it safe and picked Samara because come on she sits in the observation room with a ball of biotic energy in her hands to me that spells power.



And a side note to the OP Garrus lost his team to subterfuge not bad tactical decisions during battle. He also lead his team so well (and with no civilian casualties) that the three biggest mercenary groups in all of Omega joined forces to take them down. Now that says something about their success.

[Jeremy Winston]

IoCaster wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...


Please provide examples of incompetence.  Please show how her attitude is any more crappy than a typical renegade Shepard.

Her judgment is definitely suspect throughout the game. She's an incompetent idiot and isn't qualified to serve on the Normandy in her present role.

• The Illusive Man wouldn't intentionally send us into a trap.
• Niket would never betray me.
• Samara is a good choice for team leader.
• I could do it. Any biotic could.
• Defeatist and morale killer: We knew it was a one way trip! - Joker to Shep "I'm glad you're in charge."
• Let's sell the Geth to Cerberus before we've taken the opportunity to interrogate it.

There are more instances of questionable judgment throughout the game. The main point is that the writers were seemingly trying to make her look as incompetent as possible or they weren't aware of how some players would react to some of her actions and dialogue. 

As far as her attitude is concerned, I don't care how you role play your Shepard, renegade or otherwise. What I do care about is having an XO that doesn't try to second guess my decisions, in front of the crew, at almost every given opportunity. I don't need a ship's officer trying to usurp my command every time she opens her obnoxious cakehole. In other words, I don't need Miranda for anything. She's dead, Jim. And likely to remain so for every one of my ME3 import save files. 

1) She didn't believe he would.  She trusts him.  She's high up in his organization.  I don't find that to be incompetent.  On top of that. TIM wasn't trying to get them killed.  It's not quite a betrayal.

2) She was wrong about Niket.  She let he emotions cloud her judgement.  This is incompetent how?  Everyone makes mistakes, including Shepard.

3) A huge segement of the playerbase believed Samara would make a good team leader.  Besides, as we've discussed, her whole dialog in the suicide mission was designed to mislead you and does not reflect on her character.

4) She was correct.  ANY biotic could.  They just don't all have the necessary endurance.  Why did she say anything at all when the best choice was right in front of you?  Again, suicide mission dialog.  

5) "We knew it was a one-way trip" is the pragmatic viewpoint to keep everyone focused on the mission.  Don't bother worrying about the ship.  If we survive and the ship if repairable, great, but the job is to kill the collectors.

6) How is this viewpoint incompetent?  Jacob wants to simply destroy it.  You find that a better solution?

AN XO's job is to keep you abreast of options.  Once she voices her concerns or suggestions, she doesn't continue to argue the point, unless you're in the briefing room where the entire object is to have open discourse.

In addition, the paragon-style Shepard is open (or mine is) to suggestion.  You've assembled a team of the absolute best people at what they do.  (You may disagree about specific characters, but that is the storyline.)  They are all deadly and independent.  They are willing to follow your lead, but they aren't military, and they're not going to blindly follow any order you give.  They have opinions and will voice them.  Don't like it?  Take on the collectors by yourself.

Frankly, this whole aspect of the game was different than I expected.  I thought it would be a DA-style loyalty thing where you spend a bunch of time keeping everyone's meter up to snuff..

No doubt, your attitude reflects how you perceived her ingame.  I don't know if your perception or mine is closer to the Miranda that the writers intended to convey.

Modifié par Jeremy Winston, 27 février 2010 - 04:15 .

[CrookedAsylum]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Miranda is a true leader and she proves it in the game. She can also do the biotic bubble.

She can, but I think you lose a member if you try.

 


I am fine with losing people like Tali  and Jack. She backs up her talk with action. I think we all need to understand truly Tali and Garrus were in ME 2 for pure fan service nothing else. Oh and Miranda is Shepard's 1 st officer not Garrus 

Maybe she's your Shepard's First, but not mine. Garrus all the way, yo. So speak for yourself and your own experience.

Back on topic, though. I don't think Miranda was misleading with her comments. She said that someone with experience should lead the fire squad, so I chose Garrus the first time and Miranda the second. it worked out. The 'theoretical' part of her little spiel when she brought up biotic powers for the specialist is what set off alarm bells for me. Kind of figured you needed a badass biotic for that.

[shinobi602]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 When I first played ME2 and I got to the part where you are choosing the fireteam leader Miranda pipes in and says something to the effect of "You need someone who can command loyalty through experience," and I was like, who has the most experience?  I chose than because I didn't like Zaeed enough to use him.  I'm thinkin' "Thane has been killing for his whole life, and if I'm sending him with characters I care about I want them to have the best chance of staying alive."  Garrus didn't even cross my mind because, lets be honest, the last time he led a squad his whole squad got killed.  I didn't consider Jacob because he never seemed like a leader, more of a follower.  And the comment Jack makes when Miranda tries to lead made me think she wouldn't work either.  So the three people I thought least likely to work as fireteam leader are the only three that work. I had good reasons.

The second time she pipes up before a squadmate selection is when you are picking who to use as the biotic spec.  She tells you that any biotic could handle the task of maintaining a biotic field.  From what I've heard she is dead wrong.  So twice what she says can get your people killed.  Thanks miranda, I wish you had stayed on the ship.

Translation: I couldn't use common sense with who to pick. Miranda, I blame you!

[Nozybidaj]

Why would you listen to anything Miranda says? Every opinion she had throughout the whole game was proven wrong. Her belief in Cerberus being the "good guys", her thinking Shepard might not be up to the task, her trust in that random friend of hers that was kidnapping her sister, her not trusting Jack and being a rude ****** to her the whole time, etc., etc.



At what point did Miranda ever do anything or end up being right about something to make you think her assessment of any given situation should be listened to?

[InvaderErl]

Heh, well she did suggest that Jacob wouldn't be the right person for the vents. She HAS to be right, eventually - its just the law of averages.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 27 février 2010 - 04:27 .

[Jeremy Winston]

It's all part of her growth. Besides, this isn't about you trusting her. It's about her as a person. And I liked how her character developed.

[OverlordNexas]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Why would you listen to anything Miranda says? Every opinion she had throughout the whole game was proven wrong. Her belief in Cerberus being the "good guys", her thinking Shepard might not be up to the task, her trust in that random friend of hers that was kidnapping her sister, her not trusting Jack and being a rude ****** to her the whole time, etc., etc.

At what point did Miranda ever do anything or end up being right about something to make you think her assessment of any given situation should be listened to?

Well...she was right about needing a tech expert for the vent, but even a broken clock is right twice a day  

[McBeath]

Yeah, as far as the OP's comments it's his fault for not actually talking to the characters... Bioware said as much, that it's about the choices you make. How can you make a choice if you won't get information first.



Miranda and Garrus make great squad leaders, as they have training and skills associated with that. Jacob is an ex-military officer, though different from Zaeed(who from talking to him we learn that he has no issues with getting people killed, and his own men turned on him... bad leader). Again, I'm shocked with the people who though he or Grunt were good leaders.



Tech specialists are not about being sneaky, but being tech specialists. Yeah, Thane is super sneaky, but tech? No, he's a biotic. Legion really is the natural choice, but Tali would be great as well.



Mordin was the real thinker here.... if you talk to him he says he was the "Leader of a science team" (ie civilans/noncombat personel) on missions involving the Genophage. He perfered to "finish the mission and get out quickly and quietly", perfering not to get into combat. He to me is the perfect person to lead a wounded crew of non-combatants out of hostile territory to the extraction point.... because he's done this pleanty of times on the Krogan homeworld. That part was obvious to me, but I really like to talk to the characters.



I think the system is good, but you can't blame your XO if you made a bad choice. Like in real life, thier job as an advisor is to advise... it's up to you to determine the best course of action. Please don't blame Miranda for that

[The Angry One]

InvaderErl wrote...

Heh, well she did suggest that Jacob wouldn't be the right person for the vents. She HAS to be right, eventually - its just the law of averages.

You humans have a saying. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Bigdoser]

McBeath wrote...

Yeah, as far as the OP's comments it's his fault for not actually talking to the characters... Bioware said as much, that it's about the choices you make. How can you make a choice if you won't get information first.

Miranda and Garrus make great squad leaders, as they have training and skills associated with that. Jacob is an ex-military officer, though different from Zaeed(who from talking to him we learn that he has no issues with getting people killed, and his own men turned on him... bad leader). Again, I'm shocked with the people who though he or Grunt were good leaders.

Tech specialists are not about being sneaky, but being tech specialists. Yeah, Thane is super sneaky, but tech? No, he's a biotic. Legion really is the natural choice, but Tali would be great as well.

Mordin was the real thinker here.... if you talk to him he says he was the "Leader of a science team" (ie civilans/noncombat personel) on missions involving the Genophage. He perfered to "finish the mission and get out quickly and quietly", perfering not to get into combat. He to me is the perfect person to lead a wounded crew of non-combatants out of hostile territory to the extraction point.... because he's done this pleanty of times on the Krogan homeworld. That part was obvious to me, but I really like to talk to the characters.

I think the system is good, but you can't blame your XO if you made a bad choice. Like in real life, thier job as an advisor is to advise... it's up to you to determine the best course of action. Please don't blame Miranda for that

This.