213 réponses à ce sujet

[Kurt M.]

All of that, and I still think it's just easier to "just launch and forget" in order to hit someone behind cover using Shockwave. Well, I guess everyone has it's own tactics...

[AntiChri5]

Shockwave just cant compare to pull. Dont make a statement unless you have compared both fully evolved versions against each other on hardcore (at least)

[marshalleck]

I'm not saying how you like to play is wrong, but I do think Shockwave has some weaknesses that make it less situationally useful to a Vanguard on hardcore and insanity than Pull. Pull is imminently more useful for picking snipers and rocket launchers out of cover from locations that can't be charged; Shockwave will follow along the ground and won't hit enemies up on ledges. But both biotic powers suffer from reduced usefulness on advanced difficulties due to having to strip defense layers from the target first.

Again, we're talking about hardcore and insanity difficulty. On lower settings the dynamics of powers change due to the presence of unshielded or unarmored enemies.

Modifié par marshalleck, 27 février 2010 - 08:25 .

[Djehutynakht]

Thanks, folks, I'll give some of these strategies a try.



But I'm sure I'll still Charge more than anything else. It cracks me up. "I KILLED HIM WITH MY FACE! RAAR!"

[SpockLives]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shockwave just cant compare to pull. Dont make a statement unless you have compared both fully evolved versions against each other on hardcore (at least)

Have done this exact thing.  I respecced my Vanguard at least half a dozen times to compare powers.  Give me shockwave over pull any day.  My playstyle revolves around charging at every possible opportunity.  When is charging not advisable?  When you're about to get swarmed by Husks (or varren on that one missio with the quarian).  Shockwave slows their advance even when the Husks are still armored.  Pull does what exactly to Husks that are still protected by armor?
I cannot say whether shockwave or pull is better for an Adept, but shockwave is better suited to my playstyle with a Vanguard.

[AntiChri5]

SpockLives wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shockwave just cant compare to pull. Dont make a statement unless you have compared both fully evolved versions against each other on hardcore (at least)

Have done this exact thing.  I respecced my Vanguard at least half a dozen times to compare powers.  Give me shockwave over pull any day.  My playstyle revolves around charging at every possible opportunity.  When is charging not advisable?  When you're about to get swarmed by Husks (or varren on that one missio with the quarian).  Shockwave slows their advance even when the Husks are still armored.  Pull does what exactly to Husks that are still protected by armor?
I cannot say whether shockwave or pull is better for an Adept, but shockwave is better suited to my playstyle with a Vanguard.

I find the cooldown for Shockwave gets in the way of my charging. Once enemies are in close i use shotty melee and charge. Shockwave only staggers them when they are protected.

But thanks for actually testing them out. I am always happy to discuss something with someone who actually does their homework 

[Omega-202]

Gladiador2 wrote...

All of that, and I still think it's just easier to "just launch and forget" in order to hit someone behind cover using Shockwave. Well, I guess everyone has it's own tactics...

A) You're playing on Veteran or lower.  Everyone else is talking about a whole different game than you.  Shockwave is very situational when every enemy just shrugs it off for no damage due to their shields/armor/barrier on Insanity.

The OP asked about "higher difficulties".  Firing Shockwave on guys behind cover doesn't work on higher difficulty.

You can't make an objective assessment if you don't know how to use the ability properly.  That's like saying that baseball is a bad game because you've been trying to hit the ball holding the bat upside down.  Pull is much more effective when you learn to curve it around corners.  

[Omega-202]

SpockLives wrote...
 Pull does what exactly to Husks that are still protected by armor?

It staggers them the same as with Shockwave from what I've experienced.  Either is a "one shot kill" once their armor is gone and both are very effective in different scenarios against husks.

For example: On Horizon when you're getting charged by 3 husks at a time, pull is probably the better choice, saving your cooldowns in order to survive the Scions and Harbingers.  On the IFF mission and the N7 with swarms of them, shockwave can be more effective if you can strip their armor fast enough.  

[Arde5643]

he played on hardcore actually so your 1st argument is kinda nullified there.

[AntiChri5]

Arde5643 wrote...

he played on hardcore actually so your 1st argument is kinda nullified there.

That wasnt an argument but a personal rule. I know he played on hardcore. That bit was more for the universe in general than him.

[Arde5643]

Oh,not you AntiChri5 - I was talking to Omega.

[SpockLives]

AntiChri5 wrote...

SpockLives wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shockwave just cant compare to pull. Dont make a statement unless you have compared both fully evolved versions against each other on hardcore (at least)

Have done this exact thing.  I respecced my Vanguard at least half a dozen times to compare powers.  Give me shockwave over pull any day.  My playstyle revolves around charging at every possible opportunity.  When is charging not advisable?  When you're about to get swarmed by Husks (or varren on that one missio with the quarian).  Shockwave slows their advance even when the Husks are still armored.  Pull does what exactly to Husks that are still protected by armor?
I cannot say whether shockwave or pull is better for an Adept, but shockwave is better suited to my playstyle with a Vanguard.

I find the cooldown for Shockwave gets in the way of my charging. Once enemies are in close i use shotty melee and charge. Shockwave only staggers them when they are protected.

But thanks for actually testing them out. I am always happy to discuss something with someone who actually does their homework 

You are perfectly correct that pull has half the cooldown of shockwave.  Shockwave's cooldown does get in the way of charge.  I recommend only using shockwave when charging isn't viable.

I, too, use charge, shoot, melee, repeat.  I died several times on Hardcore trying to make that strategy work on the derelict Reaper before respeccing to give myself shockwave.  My aiming ability isn't quite fast enough for me to make all 8 pellets from the Claymore hit the husks.  Perhaps I'd have been better off using the Eviscerator on the husk swarm parts.  For those who make liberal use of biotic detonations, I'm sure pull is better.  For me, bothering to think to use biotic combos takes too much time.

Edit: Just saw your post, Omega.  Does area pull stagger multiple husks if the original target was protected?  I am ashamed to admit I only tested the one with improved duration.

Modifié par SpockLives, 27 février 2010 - 08:46 .

[Omega-202]

Arde5643 wrote...

Oh,not you AntiChri5 - I was talking to Omega.

Then I still question how he could be "launching and forgetting" shockwaves.  If he's being truthful, then there is no such thing as launch and forget shockwaves on Hardcore and Insanity.  

You have to at least have alarm bells being raised when he makes claims that he has no idea that you can curve pull and then claims his experience comes from a Hardcore play through where Shockwave was fire and forget.  

[AntiChri5]

Arde5643 wrote...

Oh,not you AntiChri5 - I was talking to Omega.

Ah. Damn ego. Always making me think i am the star of the thread.<_<

[AntiChri5]

SpockLives wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

SpockLives wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shockwave just cant compare to pull. Dont make a statement unless you have compared both fully evolved versions against each other on hardcore (at least)

Have done this exact thing.  I respecced my Vanguard at least half a dozen times to compare powers.  Give me shockwave over pull any day.  My playstyle revolves around charging at every possible opportunity.  When is charging not advisable?  When you're about to get swarmed by Husks (or varren on that one missio with the quarian).  Shockwave slows their advance even when the Husks are still armored.  Pull does what exactly to Husks that are still protected by armor?
I cannot say whether shockwave or pull is better for an Adept, but shockwave is better suited to my playstyle with a Vanguard.

I find the cooldown for Shockwave gets in the way of my charging. Once enemies are in close i use shotty melee and charge. Shockwave only staggers them when they are protected.

But thanks for actually testing them out. I am always happy to discuss something with someone who actually does their homework 

You are perfectly correct that pull has half the cooldown of shockwave.  Shockwave's cooldown does get in the way of charge.  I recommend only using shockwave when charging isn't viable.

I, too, use charge, shoot, melee, repeat.  I died several times on Hardcore trying to make that strategy work on the derelict Reaper before respeccing to give myself shockwave.  My aiming ability isn't quite fast enough for me to make all 8 pellets from the Claymore hit the husks.  Perhaps I'd have been better off using the Eviscerator on the husk swarm parts.  For those who make liberal use of biotic detonations, I'm sure pull is better.  For me, bothering to think to use biotic combos takes too much time.

I dont use combos but there was something i forgot to mention......flamethrower. Makes all those nasty husks go away. Kind of felt like cheating.

[schneaks]

Shockwave on suicide mission is invaluable, at least for me. 

One or two bursts from a Vindicator, then a shockwave is enough to knock Collectors and Husks off the platforms.  It goes through cover, which even an angle pull cannot hit at times, as well as the curved collector shields that provide extra cover. 

It made my hardcore and insanity playthroughs so easy that I had a hard time not choosing a similar set up for my subsequent playthrough.  Again, to each their own I suppose. 

[AntiChri5]

schneaks wrote...

Shockwave on suicide mission is invaluable, at least for me. 

One or two bursts from a Vindicator, then a shockwave is enough to knock Collectors and Husks off the platforms.  It goes through cover, which even an angle pull cannot hit at times, as well as the curved collector shields that provide extra cover. 

It made my hardcore and insanity playthroughs so easy that I had a hard time not choosing a similar set up for my subsequent playthrough.  Again, to each their own I suppose. 

The part with the Biotic bubble was where i got the most use out of shockwave, yes.

[Omega-202]

schneaks wrote...

Shockwave on suicide mission is invaluable, at least for me. 

One or two bursts from a Vindicator, then a shockwave is enough to knock Collectors and Husks off the platforms.  It goes through cover, which even an angle pull cannot hit at times, as well as the curved collector shields that provide extra cover. 

It made my hardcore and insanity playthroughs so easy that I had a hard time not choosing a similar set up for my subsequent playthrough.  Again, to each their own I suppose. 

Don't get me wrong, it most definitely is useful, I use it a lot and I love the ability.  Its just situational like all other abilities.  
But for some people in this thread to say that it is unconditionally better than pull in all circumstances is not true.  They both have their uses and you very well outlined where pull fails and shockwave succeeds.  

[shai-hulud-lama]

i never used pull...shockwave is just useful when enemies have no armores...i used thane and mordin to destroy armores of husks with warp and incenerate blast and then took them out with shockwave. but most of the time it's useless on insanity.

[mundus66]

shai-hulud-lama wrote...

i never used pull...shockwave is just useful when enemies have no armores...i used thane and mordin to destroy armores of husks with warp and incenerate blast and then took them out with shockwave. but most of the time it's useless on insanity.

Pull is the best thing vanguards have after charge.

[SmilingMirror]

Shockwave can be pretty effective on an ally when a bunch of enemies are hiding and you can't reach them.

Pull is great for warp detonations. I like having a squad mate use it too.

Shepherd is the one that should always be the one doing the direct damage talents.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 27 février 2010 - 09:55 .

[Slygar]

If you pulll an enemy and then hit them with shockwave, it blasts them like 3 miles into the stratosphere. That has to be worth a point or 3!

[NICKjnp]

Once husks get armor... then shockwave goes out the window. Pull is still good provided you have Miranda or Thane in your party. On higher difficulties you'll want to have reave if you want an offensive biotic power (with low cool down time) while playing as a vanguard.

[Kurt M.]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shockwave just cant compare to pull. Dont make a statement unless you have compared both fully evolved versions against each other on hardcore (at least)

It's curious. I could just say exactly the same to you

I did it, and I prefer Shockwave. And you?

[Omega-202]

Gladiador2 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shockwave just cant compare to pull. Dont make a statement unless you have compared both fully evolved versions against each other on hardcore (at least)

It's curious. I could just say exactly the same to you

I did it, and I prefer Shockwave. And you?

But you didn't.  You didn't even know the power can curve.  Therefore you didn't use the ability to its full potential.  You can't make an objective judgement based on your skewed experience.