213 réponses à ce sujet

[cxensign]

Shockwave is an ability with a high floor, but low ceiling.  It always does something, but it rarely does anything spectacular.  Its main value is that it can be used indiscriminantly and still be useful; it's the only biotic power that you can throw on recharge with minimal aiming and get results every time.  When enemies all gain defenses on higher difficulties, that removes most of the ability for Shockwave to do something great, but it doesn't touch the high floor much; other abilities are hit harder on the low end.

What I'm getting at is that if you're playing the game at a level where you curve Pull around cover to expose an enemy for a Warp bomb, Shockwave doesn't have any business being on your hotbar.  If you're not and hitting people with Pull is hard, you're very likely going to get better results with Shockwave.  Vanguard and Jack mashing on Shockwave on casual is easily the local maximum of 2 AM drunken Mass Effect.  If you're not going to spend your cooldown on anything else to great effect, you might as well Shockwave.


Pull changes on higher difficulties more than it's diminished; it can't be used to good effect on first contact against a large number of foes anymore, but leaving an enemy vulnerable and stunlocked for 5+ seconds increases in value when the game is more deadly.  Pull Field similarly gets taken advantage of less, but is potentially a lot more valuable when it does work.  There are a lot of opportunities to get good use of it when it's on your bar, you just have to learn to recognize them.

[AntiChri5]

Gladiador2 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shockwave just cant compare to pull. Dont make a statement unless you have compared both fully evolved versions against each other on hardcore (at least)

It's curious. I could just say exactly the same to you

I did it, and I prefer Shockwave. And you?

You said you never used pull more than once or twice.

[RamsenC]

I'm not a fan of shockwave, but theres one thing it can do better than pull. After you strip an abomination if you pull it, there might be an explosion in your face. If you shockwave it, you are cool.



Thats about all I use shockwave for.

[Roxlimn]

RamsenC:



Actually, Abominations are one of those targets that don't instantly die to Pull, so they can be used for Warp Explosion fodder for mass clearing Husks (in a 7 meter radius if you've got Unstable Warp). Whenever I see an Abomination in a Husks swarm, my first thought is always, "target acquired!"

[RamsenC]

Thats true, which makes shockwave even more useless, but if warp is on cooldown or you didn't bring a warper THEN shockwave has a use.

[Kurt M.]

Roxlimn wrote...

RamsenC:

Actually, Abominations are one of those targets that don't instantly die to Pull, so they can be used for Warp Explosion fodder for mass clearing Husks (in a 7 meter radius if you've got Unstable Warp). Whenever I see an Abomination in a Husks swarm, my first thought is always, "target acquired!"

For Husks/Abominations, there's nothing better than Slam

Go to Aequitas and make another video if you want to prove me wrong

[RamsenC]

Gladiador2 wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

RamsenC:

Actually, Abominations are one of those targets that don't instantly die to Pull, so they can be used for Warp Explosion fodder for mass clearing Husks (in a 7 meter radius if you've got Unstable Warp). Whenever I see an Abomination in a Husks swarm, my first thought is always, "target acquired!"

For Husks/Abominations, there's nothing better than Slam

Go to Aequitas and make another video if you want to prove me wrong

Watching those husks bounce around is great, but in the end pull works the same way. Pull is just more dangerous against abominations up close, but that can be fixed with a warp explosion or using shockwave instead. Slam is not a bad choice though.

[Kurt M.]

Prioritizing Abominations against Husks also works if you don't want to use any other power (I just completely missed that little bastard that exploted on my face ).

[mundus66]

Gladiador2 wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

RamsenC:

Actually, Abominations are one of those targets that don't instantly die to Pull, so they can be used for Warp Explosion fodder for mass clearing Husks (in a 7 meter radius if you've got Unstable Warp). Whenever I see an Abomination in a Husks swarm, my first thought is always, "target acquired!"

For Husks/Abominations, there's nothing better than Slam

Go to Aequitas and make another video if you want to prove me wrong

The best power is throw. Since it insant kills them and has the shortest cooldown. It also does the most damage vs their armor of any biotic power (except for reave and warp). One shot from a heavy pistol, followed by a throw always kill them, even if they have some armor left. Slam only works on 1 target so it is just a nerfed version of pull really.

Modifié par mundus66, 28 février 2010 - 03:43 .

[jgomezish]

pull would be great its just that you have to spend three points in shockwave ... So I just used slam for my vanguard it has a quick recharge time too.

[Jamesmc93]

I'm going to be honest; I only prefer Shockwave because I look like such a badass while using it.



That said, I've only recently started using Pull....maybe I'll get the hang of it soon enough.

[Kurt M.]

I find it pretty badass to Slam someone and ignore him while he crashes to the ground. Kind of "I'm done with you. Next!"

[Hulk Hsieh]

Against Colletor drones.

Area reave once to remove the barrier, and use pull to insta-kill each of them every 2 second.

Very satisfying with lv1 pull.

[Peer of the Empire]

Shockwave is marginally useful stopping husks in their tracks for 0.5 seconds to create some distance.  Pull is great when their shields are down, but it doesn't really make a difference, you could have just charged in anyway.  Pull is great with only 1 point.

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 28 février 2010 - 06:49 .

[sinosleep]

This is why pull is better than slam. I can kill 3 husks with one pull in the time it takes you to kill one with slam.

[sinosleep]

bump

[cxensign]

sinosleep wrote...

This is why pull is better than slam. I can kill 3 husks with one pull in the time it takes you to kill one with slam.

If you want to be fair about it, you need to compare Area Pull to Squad Cryo + Slam, since that's what you're giving up to get it.

I'm starting to like Area Reave + Squad Cryo for husk killing actually; instead of 1-2 shots to drop the armor then Area Pull to finish them, it's Area Reave to remove all the armor, then 1 shot to kill each husk.  It's not as good as Pull Field against mass husks, clearly, but it shouldn't be; mass husks are where Pull Field shines brightest.  Being able to get close to that performance with more generally useful skills is pretty attractive if you don't feel like respeccing for husk missions every time (or running around with a husk spec all the time).

[sinosleep]

I don't mind giving up squad cryo. I used it, I liked it, but at the end of the day I am a control freak. And as such, I like pull field cause I cast it and I determine who it's going to be cast on. Squad cryo will freeze who it wants to freeze when it wants to freeze them so I didn't mind losing it.

[xedgorex]

Quite frankly i look at thisisme8 and sinosleep as the godfathers of Vanguard and im struggling between which school to follow, i follow thisisme's Claymore style but am coming around to sinosleeps pull usage.



Despite what many of you peoeple want to argue this two individuals countlessly back up their abilities and their advice should be taken as almost law.





that sounded fanboyish and lame, haha. But lets be honest, they're gods at Vanguard

[cxensign]

sinosleep wrote...

I don't mind giving up squad cryo. I used it, I liked it, but at the end of the day I am a control freak. And as such, I like pull field cause I cast it and I determine who it's going to be cast on. Squad cryo will freeze who it wants to freeze when it wants to freeze them so I didn't mind losing it.

Two comments.

First, I haven't had issues with aiming squad cryo when I wanted to.  Yeah, you have to start calling targets for your squad, but that's not any worse than any other power; yeah here's a bit of travel time since they actually have to shoot, but not consuming the cooldowns is priceless.  Did you ever try using the cryo on yourself against husks, instead of overwriting with Inferno?  It makes a huge difference.

Second, you're giving up Squad Cryo not for Pull, but for the area evolution of it.  Even when I have Pull Field specced, on Insanity, 80+% of the time it's still hitting just one guy and might as well have been Pull; and a good fraction of the rest of the time I'm just being cute with the area effect part of it.  It definitely comes in handy on merit occasionally, particularly against husks; but I have trouble convincing myself that Pull Field blows away standard Pull + (Squad) Cryo, even against husks.

[sinosleep]

The problem with calling targets is that occasionally your squadmate will not only start shooting the target, but waste a cool down power on it from simply pressing q or e to assign them to a target. That's actually the biggest reason I stopped directing my squad and pretty much just let them run wild. I got tired of wasting cooldowns on guys I didn't want to (like Miranda warping instead of overloading a pyro cause I used q instead of the hotkey for the power directly) and the ai seems to focus on CC'd mobs (most vulnerable) any way so I didn't feel I was losing much by letting them aim at whoever they wanted to.



At the end of the day this is another one of those things that I feel is down to player preference. I personally think pull field works on more than one mob often enough to warrant my taking it at the cost of squad cryo. Some people don't feel the same. It's all gravy.

[Spyndel]

I definitely think Pull Field hits multiples often enough to warrant it...*but*...in my opinion it works better for me as a squad member ability, because for them, it is insta hit. I find the slow moving player projectiles for some AOE powers problematic at times, because the time it takes for the "blue ball" to trace its path, is often just enough time for the target to move just out of range of the "group" you had originally targeted. Wheres squad members can pull a Strip/Pull combo instantly and reliably on multiples.



On my Vangaurd, I was happy to take a single point in Pull, which is quite potent on its own after Biotic upgrades.

[sinosleep]

xedgorex wrote...

Quite frankly i look at thisisme8 and sinosleep as the godfathers of Vanguard and im struggling between which school to follow, i follow thisisme's Claymore style but am coming around to sinosleeps pull usage.

Despite what many of you peoeple want to argue this two individuals countlessly back up their abilities and their advice should be taken as almost law.


that sounded fanboyish and lame, haha. But lets be honest, they're gods at Vanguard

Not that I don't appreciate the props, cause I do, but we had a lot of help. RamsenC, , Kurupt87, Kronner, Dannok1234, Mundus66, and Rumination888 have all been a huge help. I might have been one of the first to post youtube vids about the class and get noticed by a dev, but I can't really take credit for the movement. Putting vanguards on the map has been a team effort.

Modifié par sinosleep, 01 mars 2010 - 03:55 .

[Acero Azul]

shockwave owns

[thisisme8]

sinosleep wrote...

xedgorex wrote...

Quite frankly i look at thisisme8 and sinosleep as the godfathers of Vanguard and im struggling between which school to follow, i follow thisisme's Claymore style but am coming around to sinosleeps pull usage.

Despite what many of you peoeple want to argue this two individuals countlessly back up their abilities and their advice should be taken as almost law.


that sounded fanboyish and lame, haha. But lets be honest, they're gods at Vanguard

Not that I don't appreciate the props, cause I do, but we had a lot of help. RamsenC, , Kurupt87, Kronner, Dannok1234, Mundus66, and Rumination888 have all been a huge help. I might have been one of the first to post youtube vids about the class and get noticed by a dev, but I can't really take credit for the movement. Putting vanguards on the map has been a team effort.

For sure.  Those guys have been a huge help to breaking down and building up what the class is capable of.