4 réponses à ce sujet

[ThePasserby]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but here goes, anyway. Also, if you have a short attention span, move along, as this is not the thread for you.

There are many discussions of characters in these forums, but I can't help but think that there should be a certain methodology in place. And here's why:

Playing a game and exploring a character (sometimes in more ways than one ... ) is not the same as doing that by reading a book or watching a movie or a play. In the latter, everyone reads the same book, or watches the same movie or play, so that when someone discusses the character of Hamlet in the Shakespearean play for example, and quotes him according to which act, scene and line spoken, everyone has the same source material on which their opinions can be based.

Now, discussing characters in a role-playing game, like DA:O, on the other hand is fundamentally different, because my Leliana might not be the same Leliana for another player, and not in the postmodernist sense of every reader being an author himself. Rather, my Leliana might have been "softened" after her encounter with Marjolaine because my protagonist chose to turn her towards the chantry, while another player might "harden" her instead. This results in two very different Lelianas in two different stories.

Thus, if someone says that Leliana is an unrepentant killer, for instance, a legitimate question would be "What were your conversations with her like? What did you say to her? What did you do for her?" And since this game allows us to make choices, these choices would affect her personality, especially when the characters are well-written.

Fundamentally, as players, we are somewhat like co-authors with the writers of the game. We choose how we want our own protagonists as well as the supporting cast to develop. A case in point, is Alistair a wimp? Some might say that he is, because he keeps harping on his bad childhood and his poor handling of Duncan's death. But there are so many things that we can do that can affect his personality, like "hardening" him, or killing Loghain, or marrying him off. Whose Alistair are we talking about then?

Discussions would go alot smoother if we have an agreed-upon set of "best practices" so to speak. One suggestion could be that one has to list down the decisions made at important turning points in the development of a character when one makes an opinion of said character.

For example, were I to have an opinion of Sten, I have to say that I have not been able to pry much information out of him as he was seldom in my party, but I did get him his sword. My opinion of Sten would be based on this set of evidence, while another player who is more successful at getting more out of him and having more dialogue with him would have a different set of source material. Ultimately, we are talking about two different Stens.

In short, a game with such deep characterizations will have different players seeing different Stens, different Oghrens different Morrigans etc and without stating what we based our opinion on, discussions seem ... pointless.

[SurelyForth]

I agree with you to the extent that the same character can come across very differently depending on how you approach them and how you play the game. However, I really love reading how others perceive the companions/NPC's because it 1) it's interesting and 2) sometimes someone will offer an entirely fresh perspective that gives me an "ah-ha!" moment.

I probably never would have been able to spare Loghain were it not for the impassioned discussions about him on this board. But, because other posters took the time to argue it out on the internet, my interest was piqued enough to give him a try. I am very glad that I did because now have an appreciation of his depth that I wouldn't have had otherwise and it makes parts of the game much more complex and emotional than they were before I spared him.

The arguments about characters get heated, yes, but there are always interesting bits of interpretation and criticism that can add even more layers to the game and that are just plain fun to read, to boot.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 27 février 2010 - 03:21 .

[ThePasserby]

SurelyForth wrote...

I agree with you to the extent that the same character can come across very differently depending on how you approach them and how you play the game. However, I really love reading how others perceive the companions/NPC's because it 1) it's interesting and 2) sometimes someone will offer an entirely fresh perspective that gives me an "ah-ha!" moment.

I probably never would have been able to spare Loghain were it not for the impassioned discussions about him on this board. But, because other posters took the time to argue it out on the internet, my interest was piqued enough to give him a try. I am very glad that I did because now have an appreciation of his depth that I wouldn't have had otherwise and it makes parts of the game much more complex and emotional than they were before I spared him.

No disagreement there, but I wasn't advocating a cessation of character discussions. I, too, learned much about the characters from others who have played the game differently, and here is the key: many who said Loghain is such-and-such provided information like what they did (eg. spared his life) and perhaps even told us what conversation choice they made.

Imagine if someone has a different opinion of Loghain but neither says why nor what he did and said to the character. Such a discussion would not help much at all.

[Maria Caliban]

I think your suggestion might help about 20% of conversation here. Most of us don't argue about what the characters said as much as what their words and actions mean.

Example: I've heard several people say Leliana made up her visions because of what she says when she's hardened. I know what she says when she's hardened, I also know that she lies, that she molds herself to what others desire of her, and that in order to harden her the PC has to express a preference for a certain type of Leliana.

It could mean that Leliana lies when she tells you she had visions, but it's just as likely to mean that Leliana lies when she tells you that she made them up.

Moreover, just because something doesn’t happen in someone’s game doesn’t mean that it isn’t part of the character. Zevran betrays you if you don’t get his approval high enough. Whether or not he betrays you in a specific play-through doesn’t change that fact.

Anora betrays you if you don’t side with her or if you threaten her father. Whether or not she betrays you, that tells you something about her desires and priorities.

[ThePasserby]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I think your suggestion might help about 20% of conversation here. Most of us don't argue about what the characters said as much as what their words and actions mean.

Example: I've heard several people say Leliana made up her visions because of what she says when she's hardened. I know what she says when she's hardened, I also know that she lies, that she molds herself to what others desire of her, and that in order to harden her the PC has to express a preference for a certain type of Leliana.

It could mean that Leliana lies when she tells you she had visions, but it's just as likely to mean that Leliana lies when she tells you that she made them up.

Moreover, just because something doesn’t happen in someone’s game doesn’t mean that it isn’t part of the character. Zevran betrays you if you don’t get his approval high enough. Whether or not he betrays you in a specific play-through doesn’t change that fact.

Anora betrays you if you don’t side with her or if you threaten her father. Whether or not she betrays you, that tells you something about her desires and priorities.

Discussions about a character's desires and priorities based on an omniscient-like knowledge among others with such knowledge is fine. Many, especially those who take an immediate dislike to a character usually do not have this much knowledge, mainly because they do not bother exploring all the posiibilities of a character they don't like. And we see alot of posts of the latter kind.

Modifié par ThePasserby, 27 février 2010 - 05:09 .