12 réponses à ce sujet

[ForceXev]

How do you feel about the loyalty system and the "suicide" mission?  I'm on my third play through in ME2, and I'm realizing now that although the game gives you opportunities to make choices, the outcomes of your choices are so exact and severe that you really don't have a choice.

For example, in Tali's mission you have a choice to tell the admirals what her father had done or not, but if you tell you lose Tali's loyalty and as a result she most likely dies in the final mission, making it seem like that is the "wrong" choice.  I think there should have been a way to talk to her afterwards and convince her of your good intentions thereby still gaining her loyalty (maybe there is and I missed it?).

It's pretty random too, because in Zaeed's loyalty mission you can make decisions that cost Zaeed his chance at getting his revenge, yet he is still loyal afterwards.  Why is he loyal when I mess things up for him but Tali isn't?  Maybe this is supposed to be a realistic portrayal of the unpredictability of people's personalities -- Zaeed being the sort to not dwell on things or hold a grudge while Tali's emotions have a much greater affect on her -- but for gameplay reasons it's annoying.

So as I play my third character, I'm finding now that certain decisions are already decided for me if I want to have a positive outcome at the end (keeping all of the characters alive).  If this was ME3, it might not matter so much, but because we have another game coming it feels important to keep all of the characters alive so I can see them again in ME3.  Maybe they should have saved this "suicide mission" and loyalty concept for ME3.

And another thing: the seemingly randomness of the suicide mission is a bother, too.  In my second play through I lost Jack for no apparant reason.  It was during the part where you have a biotic creating a bubble around your team.  I had Miranda maintaining the bubble with Jack and I think Thane fighting with me, and although all of these characters were loyal, Jack got swallowed up by the swarm at the end.  To make matters worse, she was my LI.  This has such a huge impact on ME3 that I basically have no choice but to reload and try again with different characters and hope for a better outcome, and that's kinda dumb since I don't feel like I made any mistakes or did anything wrong. 

[DarthCaine]

There are ways in Tali's loyalty mission to both gain her loyalty and not get her exiled (and not give the evidence)

And the suicide mission is in no way random. You just choose a terrible biotic instead of choosing one of humanity's best biotics (Jack) or an Asari Justicar

Modifié par DarthCaine, 27 février 2010 - 10:10 .

[Llandaryn]

ForceXev wrote...

Zaeed being the sort to not dwell on things or hold a grudge...

The only other character who dwells on stuff and holds grudges more than Zaeed is Samara, and that's because she's had 400 years experience of doing it.

[Mnemnosyne]

On your last point, Miranda claims that any biotic can do it, but she's wrong. You need an exceptionally powerful biotic to handle the strain of maintaining that bubble for such a long period of time. Just like most of the jobs on the suicide mission, you need to pick someone who's right for the job - one of the two extremely powerful biotics on your team, Jack or Samara.



As for the rest of it...I'm of mixed opinions on it. I don't feel it should necessarily have been possible to obtain the loyalty of everyone, and it certainly shouldn't be possible to make whatever decisions you want and obtain the characters' loyalty. Comparing one character to another is a poor way of going about it in this sense because as you said, Zaeed is Zaeed, and Tali is Tali. Her situation is and should be her choice, as far as she, personally, is concerned. If you feel it is more important to give the information to the Admiralty than her feelings, then you're demonstrating that you don't have personal loyalty to her, so why should she have it toward you? An "ideal" resolution might have been to have the chance to convince her to give the information willingly, but maybe she would never do that, no matter what, because that's what she's like.



Not everyone can or should be able to be convinced of anything.

[Space Shot]

I agree with some of the dubious outcomes for the main game (Zaeed especially.  His loyalty felt like a bit of a gimme) but as a bit of advice for the end game the characters you choose for other roles have a huge impact on the outcome of the final mission. Choose a crappy commander, and someone else may very well pay for it. So, select wisely for all cases and be sure that you consider what each character is capable of (in terms of the experience they've had in back stories and the what-not) before making a decision.

Modifié par Space Shot, 27 février 2010 - 10:08 .

[Lurker 2277]

for the biotic bubble you need to have a strong biotic like Jack or Samara.

[Tyreal42a]

There are various other choices for Tali's loyalty mission. Rallying the crowd, getting her exiled, using a paragon option, or a renegade option. It's just that one in particular that leads to her no longer being loyal and is 'wrong' if you must look at it like that. Besides, her character is extremely devoted to her people with an unselfish attitude and she tells you she doesn't want that. What did you think was going to happen?

Zaeed's mission, I agree with. 20 years and he just accepts it like that? Seemed a bit hard to accept.

Jack dying there is not random. Only Jack or Samara are strong enough in biotics to get through with no one dying. If you're using Miranda, someone will die. Miranda claims she can do it, but that's just cause she thinks too highly of herself.

Modifié par Tyreal42a, 27 février 2010 - 10:09 .

[Pauravi]

ForceXev wrote...

Zaeed being the sort to not dwell on things or hold a grudge ... 

I LOL'd.

[A Blind Bandit]

ForceXev wrote...

And another thing: the seemingly randomness of the suicide mission is a bother, too.  In my second play through I lost Jack for no apparant reason.  It was during the part where you have a biotic creating a bubble around your team.  I had Miranda maintaining the bubble with Jack and I think Thane fighting with me, and although all of these characters were loyal, Jack got swallowed up by the swarm at the end.  To make matters worse, she was my LI.  This has such a huge impact on ME3 that I basically have no choice but to reload and try again with different characters and hope for a better outcome, and that's kinda dumb since I don't feel like I made any mistakes or did anything wrong. 

Well there's your problem. You used Miranda to maintain the bubble. If someone thats not Samara or Jack w/ implants tries to do the bubble they will fail at the end and one of your team will be killed. While it is true that any biotic can create the field only Samara and Jack have the endurance to keep it going till the end.

[GodWood]

Its called "Role-Playing".

[max_ai]

ForceXev wrote...

Zaeed being the sort to not dwell on things or hold a grudge...

A grudge? A GRUDGE???????

[OverlordNexas]

Handing over the evidence to the Admirals would be the equivalent of handing over Miranda's sister to her father. No amount of persuasion would capable of convincing her it was the right thing to do.

[ForceXev]

Zaeed -- Right... he does hold a grudge against guys who shoot him in the face but maybe not against the guy who made him save lives instead of getting revenge. But if he is the sort to hold a grudge, then all the more reason I should lose his loyalty when I let Vido get away.



I thought Miranda was genetically enhanced to be perfect? I figured that having someone like Jacob or Thane do it would be bad, but I thought Miranda was supposed to be this genetically designed wonder woman? Oh well.